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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Golden Age of Islam and Islam

 (Read 20429 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #30 - September 17, 2014, 07:55 AM

    I want to get very post-modern!

    Maybe these categories, for example "Islam" do not exist?

    All there is is how people express the experiences they have had.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #31 - September 17, 2014, 02:24 PM

    Some quotes from Lost Enlightenment:
    Quote
    Unfortunately, the thorough destruction of documents from the pre-Islamic era in Central Asia leaves us with mere fragments of information on astronomy and other sciences before the ninth century. But these fragments are intriguing.
    [...]
    It is impossible to estimate the number and distribution of books in Central Asia prior to the Arab invasion. Suffice it to note that the world did not even know of the existence of written Sogdian, Bactrian, and Khwarazmian until as recently as the 1950s, when Soviet archaeologists and Soviet and Western linguists began to plumb the problem. Now, however, the number of fragments of writings multiplies every decade.
    [...]
    To a far greater extent than has generally been acknowledged, the driving force behind this proliferation of books - and of reading and writing - was the large-scale production of paper. It would have been possible for the seventh-century poet from the Ferghana Valley, Saifi Isfarangi, to preserve the twelve thousand couplets he had written by copying them onto costly imported parchment from hides. But paper offered an inexpensive and more practical alternative. Central Asians, as we have seen, played at least as important a role in this industry as the Chinese, by vastly improving the product and by subjecting it to mass production for export
    [...]
    it is increasingly clear that the "paper revolution" not only began prior to the Arab conquest but was concentrated above all in Central Asia.
    [...]
    At first the Arabs had deceived themselves into thinking that the conquest of Central Asia would be easy. Their smooth entry into Khurusan and the success of their early raids across the Oxus for booty had led them to undertake more ambitious campaigns. But these efforts ended in disaster. Worse, they prompted both dissident members of the Arab administration and indigenous leaders from Central Asia once more to take up arms against the Caliphate.
    [...]
    Such fears led to the appointment in 705 of a new viceroy for the region, a hardened general named Qutayba.
    [...]
    Qutayba was a master at the technical use of terror. In his early campaign against Paykand, for example, he slaughtered the entire force of defenders and took all the women and children into captivity. When he finally broke into Samarkand after laying siege to it over four years, he took thirty-nine thousand people as slaves.
    [...]
    Qutayba tore down the main Zoroastrian temple at Samarkand and melted down its treasure, repeating the process in other cities.
    [...]
    Of more lasting consequence was Qutayba's systematic destruction of books and religious literature. In Bukhara he destroyed an important library, but in Kath, the capital of Khwarazm (near the Aral Sea in present-day Uzbekistan), he succeeded in wiping out an entire literature in the Khwarazmian language, including works on astronomy, history, mathematics, genealogy, and literature. Writing in the eleventh century, the great scientist Biruni rued this destruction as a crime against an ancient culture. Qutayba's special animus was directed against Zoroastrianism. Besides killing various writers from this faith, he obliterated much of the corpus of Zoroastrian theology and letters, a tragic loss to civilisation.

  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #32 - September 17, 2014, 03:04 PM

    Names and works of Known Medieval Scientist/discoverers   happened to be Muslims...

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Jabir Ibn Haiyan (722 – 804):

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Muhammad ibn Musa Al-Khwarizmi (780 – 850)

     http://www.mhs.ox.ac.uk/scienceislam_education/docs/Science_and_technology_in_Medieval_Islam-Teachers_notes.pdf


    Ibn Ishaq Al-Kindi (801 – 873)

    Quote
    Abu Yusuf Yaqub Ibn Ishaq al-Kindi, one of the most celebrated of the philosophers and natural scientists of the classical age of Islam, was born in Kufa in the year 800 CE in the illustrious al Kindah clan from South Yemen. During the 5th and 6th centuries, the al Kindah had unified several tribes under its aegis. After the advent of Islam, some members of this tribe migrated to Southern Iraq, where they enjoyed the patronage of the Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphs. Al Kindi’s father was the governor of Kufa, which at the time was a thriving commercial city, wherein people from Persia, Arabia, India and China met for trade and transaction. Al Kindi received his early education in Kufa.


    Al-Ṣābiʾ Thābit ibn Qurra al-Ḥarrānī


    Quote
    Al-Ṣābiʾ Thābit ibn Qurra al-Ḥarrānī     826– February 18, 901) was an Arabic Sabian mathematician, physician, astronomer, and translator of the Islamic Golden Age who lived in Baghdad in the second half of the ninth century during the time of Abbasid Caliphate.

    Ibn Qurra made important discoveries in algebra, geometry, and astronomy. In astronomy, Thabit is considered one of the first reformers of the Ptolemaic system, and in mechanics he was a founder of statics.

    Thabit was born in Harran (known as Carrhae in antiquity) in Higher Mesopotamia/Assyria (in modern day Turkey). Thabit and his pupils lived in the midst of the most intellectually vibrant, and probably the largest, city of the time, Baghdad. He occupied himself with mathematics, astronomy, astrology, magic, mechanics, medicine, and philosophy. Later in his life, Thabit's patron was the Abbasid Caliph al-Mu'tadid (reigned 892–902). Thabit became the Caliph's personal friend and courtier. Thabit died in Baghdad. After him the greatest Sabean name was Abu Abdallah Mohammad ibn Jabir Al-Battani.


    And let me dilute the brains of those fools who consider contribution of many medieval scientists that happened to be Muslims with this link   Again progress of Science during medieval times is very little or nothing to do with religions and religious stupidity ., It is all about Individual interests and curiously about Natural phenomenon..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #33 - September 17, 2014, 03:20 PM

    Quote
    Qutayba tore down the main Zoroastrian temple at Samarkand and melted down its treasure, repeating the process in other cities.
    [...]
    Of more lasting consequence was Qutayba's systematic destruction of books and religious literature. In Bukhara he destroyed an important library, but in Kath, the capital of Khwarazmian (near the Aral Sea in present-day Uzbekistan), he succeeded in wiping out an entire literature in the Khwarazmian language, including works on astronomy, history, mathematics, genealogy, and literature. Writing in the eleventh century, the great scientist Biruni rued this destruction as a crime against an ancient culture. Qutayba's special animus was directed against Zoroastrianism. Besides killing various writers from this faith, he obliterated much of the corpus of Zoroastrian theology and letters, a tragic loss to civilisation.


    So, far from being a golden age, the followers of Islam actually destroyed a major civilisation and severely weakened several others.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #34 - September 17, 2014, 03:33 PM

    Quote
    It would be more accurate to date the start of Cen- tral Asia’s Age of Enlightenment to 750, when forces based in Central Asia overwhelmed the Arabs and their Umayyad Caliphate in Damas- cus and established a new capital at Baghdad. This event, followed by the installation in 819 of a caliph whose power base was in Central Asia, was akin to a reconquest of the Islamic world from the East.


    http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s10064.pdf

    Is it possible to argue that Islam version 1 ended then, and that the alleged golden age has only an islamic veneer.

    Thus all of the early history of Islam is suspect, and its history since.

    We should really talk about utterly separate empires, ethnicities and religions, pretending to be the same under this term Islam.

    The idea of a split into sunni and shia is also propaganda to hide the fact that we are looking at two utterly separate groups pretending to have common roots in the fiction the Meccan Mohammed.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #35 - September 17, 2014, 03:37 PM

    Actually Islam v 1 is a fiction as well, probably made in Baghdad!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #36 - September 17, 2014, 03:45 PM

    I wonder if the author of that book on the central asian empire has been got at!

    Quote
    Beyond doubt, the era’s greatest achievement in geography was the work of our friend Biruni, who used astronomical data to postulate the existence of an inhabited land mass somewhere between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. The astonishing process, which led to this earliest “discovery of America,” is described in detail in chapter 11


    There is plenty of room for doubt.  The Vikings already had settlements in North America then and were travelling down the Rhine and Danube to the Black Sea and beyond.

    And if the Vikings could do it, why not the Chinese and Russians around the Pacific?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #37 - September 17, 2014, 05:46 PM

    ^Well here's Fred Starr's argument:

    So who did discover America?

    I'd give the credit to the Vikings myself.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #38 - September 17, 2014, 05:54 PM

    America wasn't discovered. Native Americans, who would be the ones who "discovered" the place, had been living there for thousands of years before any European or other ship reached its shores.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #39 - September 17, 2014, 05:58 PM

    Fair point.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #40 - September 17, 2014, 09:52 PM

    Fred Starr on Central Asia's golden age
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-vKiQ9OXQ
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #41 - September 19, 2014, 05:56 PM

    More on the use of paper in Central Asia before the Arab invasions: http://www.silk-road.com/newsletter/vol3num2/5_bloom.php
    Quote
    [...]

    When Muslim armies conquered Central Asia in the late seventh and early eighth centuries, they encountered paper for the first time. It is often said that Muslim armies captured Chinese papermakers following the battle of Talas in 751, but this anecdote is without factual basis and paper had been known—and made—in Central Asia for centuries. For example, archaeologists discovered a mailbag containing letters written on paper and addressed to a merchant in Samarqand in the fourth century [Fig. 6] [Sims-Williams 1987]. Devastich, lord of Panjikent in Sogdia (now Tajikistan) until his capture by the Arabs in 722, left an archive of 76 writings in Sogdian, Arabic and Chinese on leather, wood and paper, which Soviet scholars discovered at the remote site of Kala-i Mug [Zeymal’ 1996]. A few decades later in 762 the new Abbasid dynasty transferred the capital of the Islamic empire from Damascus in Syria to Baghdad in Iraq; this new eastern focus, combined with the government bureaucracy’s soaring demand for records, led to the introduction and quick diffusion of paper in the Islamic lands.

    Papermaking was begun in Baghdad itself by the late 8th century. The city boasted a Suq al-warraqin (Stationers’ Market), a street whose two sides were lined with more than one hundred shops for paper- and booksellers. From Iraq, papermaking was carried to Syria, then Egypt, across North Africa to Morocco and eventually to Spain, where its use there is first recorded by a tenth-century traveler. The first sheets of “Arab” paper appear in Spanish Christian manuscripts of the late tenth century, where the sheets were substituted for the typical, but more expensive, parchment. Eventually other Europeans learned of papermaking from the Muslims of Spain, particularly as Christians began to occupy larger portions of the Iberian peninsula and needed materials on which to record deeds and titles. Similarly in Sicily and Italy, merchants and notaries began to use paper from the late eleventh and twelfth centuries, although papermaking was not introduced, perhaps from Spain or from somewhere in the Arab world, until the thirteenth. Once the Italians learned the art of papermaking, they quickly superseded their masters, producing large quantities of fine paper more cheaply than anyone else, and they began exporting it to North African and West Asian markets.

    [...]


    The story about Muslim armies capturing Chinese papermakers crops up repeatedly, for example in Jim Al-Khalili's book Pathfinders:The Golden Age of Arabic Science and Robert Hoyland's Early Islam as a Late Antique Religion (which are otherwise well worth reading). Really it's one of those just so stories that forms part of the narrative of an Islamic golden age appearing miraculously without historical roots in the pre-Islamic past.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #42 - September 19, 2014, 08:30 PM

    Quote
      For example, archaeologists discovered a mailbag containing letters written on paper and addressed to a merchant in Samarqand in the fourth century


    And interestingly, it does look like the Arab world put a block on exporting paper and its technology, causing a dark age...

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #43 - September 19, 2014, 08:36 PM

    Probably it just took time for the technology to diffuse through to Europe.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #44 - September 19, 2014, 08:44 PM

    But why?  Remember the main building going on for several centuries was defensive fortification against sea attacks.  Not exactly conducive to free trade and exchange of ideas.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #45 - September 19, 2014, 09:06 PM

    Fair question. I'd say there just wasn't much going on in the Christian West by this time - learning and literacy had mostly retreated into the monasteries and the church. The cities that survived the fall of the Roman Empire were a fraction of their size a few centuries earlier. I'm open to opinions though.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #46 - September 19, 2014, 09:12 PM

    Fascinating bit inthat silk road article!  Should we tell salafists that it is haram to put the koran on paper?

    Quote
    Nevertheless Muslims must have initially viewed paper with some suspicion, because manuscripts of the Quran continued to be copied on parchment well into the tenth century. The oldest dated copy of the Quran transcribed on paper was produced, presumably in Iran, in 971-72 by the calligrapher Ali ibn Shadhan al-Razi, whose name indicates that he came from Rayy, a city located near modern Tehran. These first Quran manuscripts on paper were copied in scripts unlike the stately “kufic” scripts traditionally used for copying the Quran on parchment and more like the cursive scripts used by contemporary scribes for copying literary works on paper. In time it became common to copy the Quran on paper, except in Morocco and Spain, where parchment continued to be used for several more centuries.


    Why are somethings allowed to change but not other things?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #47 - September 19, 2014, 09:14 PM

    And what font did Gabriel use?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #48 - September 19, 2014, 09:50 PM

    Angelic.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #49 - September 19, 2014, 10:17 PM

    More on the use of paper in Central Asia before the Arab invasions: http://www.silk-road.com/newsletter/vol3num2/5_bloom.php     


    S. Frederick Starr  really did good Job on that book   ., Other works from hm..

    Clans Authoritarian Rulers and parliaments in Central Asia  that is some 2000 pages of papers in English and Russian from him?

    Regional Approach to Afghanistan and its neighbors

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #50 - September 28, 2014, 06:01 PM



    This looks a bit obscure but has more on the origins of Golden Age thought in pre-Islamic Central Asia:

    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9871.html
    Quote
    Warriors of the Cloisters tells how key cultural innovations from Central Asia revolutionized medieval Europe and gave rise to the culture of science in the West. Medieval scholars rarely performed scientific experiments, but instead contested issues in natural science, philosophy, and theology using the recursive argument method. This highly distinctive and unusual method of disputation was a core feature of medieval science, the predecessor of modern science. We know that the foundations of science were imported to Western Europe from the Islamic world, but until now the origins of such key elements of Islamic culture have been a mystery.

    In this provocative book, Christopher I. Beckwith traces how the recursive argument method was first developed by Buddhist scholars and was spread by them throughout ancient Central Asia. He shows how the method was adopted by Islamic Central Asian natural philosophers--most importantly by Avicenna, one of the most brilliant of all medieval thinkers--and transmitted to the West when Avicenna's works were translated into Latin in Spain in the twelfth century by the Jewish philosopher Ibn Da'ud and others. During the same period the institution of the college was also borrowed from the Islamic world. The college was where most of the disputations were held, and became the most important component of medieval Europe's newly formed universities. As Beckwith demonstrates, the Islamic college also originated in Buddhist Central Asia.

    Using in-depth analysis of ancient Buddhist, Classical Arabic, and Medieval Latin writings, Warriors of the Cloisters transforms our understanding of the origins of medieval scientific culture.


    Review: http://www.societyforhistoryeducation.org/pdfs/F14_Reviews.pdf

    Mind you other reviews of this are quite sceptical about his arguments.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #51 - September 28, 2014, 06:57 PM


    http://www.ashgate.com/isbn/9780754669562

    Islam and Tibet: Cultural Interactions:
    https://www.ashgate.com/pdf/SamplePages/Islam_and_Tibet_Interactions_along_the_Musk_Routes_Intro.pdf
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #52 - September 28, 2014, 09:13 PM


    http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/14726.html

    Preview:
    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=N7_4Gr9Q438C&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=buddhism+and+islam+on+the+silk+road&source=bl&ots=H_XwHScj7t&sig=9DMbEfabdaWRC6IL1AN51FPf5J8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=f3woVPyqK4LY7AaRi4GoBA&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=buddhism%20and%20islam%20on%20the%20silk%20road&f=false

    Buddhism and Islam on the Silk Road - review:
    http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_world_history/summary/v022/22.4.yang.html
    Quote
    Religion constitutes a long-lasting and inspiring field in world history, let alone interactions among world religions. Religious tensions, conflicts, and tolerance such as those between Christianity and Islam or between Christianity and Confucianism have been well studied, but few scholars have paid attention to the interactions between Buddhism and Islam along the Silk Road. This book successfully fills in such a vacuum.

    Following the introduction, chapter 1, "Contact," sets up the background of the two world religions. Popular images in the modern world contrast the two religions: Buddhism as peaceful, spiritual, and refrained, while Islam as aggressive, materialist, and pro-violence. This conventional wisdom, however, is unable to be tested either by history or reality. On the contrary, the two have shared surprising similarities of social background for their own formation, expansion, feature, and space, despite the temporal gap of about one millennium. Both emerged from a turbulent society respectively that witnessed the rise of an urban merchant class. Both captured the needs of the new commercial class whom had been despised by the existing power structure. Speaking for merchant elites, the two religions gained their power and extended their influence through the trading networks along the Silk Roads. When Muslim rulers expanded into Central Asia and India, Buddhists as well as other heresies were largely tolerated, mainly because of "the central role of Buddhists in the local economy" (p. 53). To some people's surprise, Buddhism survived two centuries longer under Muslim rule than in the Hindu spheres. Gradually, the Islamic international, however, replaced its Buddhist counterpart.

    Chapter 2, "Understanding," discusses their conceptualizations of one another over time based on primary sources and illustrates Buddhist influences on Islam, such as astronomy, mathematics, medicine, literature, and so on. The accumulation of knowledge, nevertheless, did not advance smoothly. Indeed, a Buddhist-Muslim split emerged when a geographical divide was created by the formation of three religio-economic units: the Muslim world, the Tantric Block around Inner Asia, and the Buddhist Bengal Bay. Buddhists were no longer found under Muslim rule, such as in northwest India. In addition, the prosperity from maritime trade, while increasing material exchanges, did not correspondingly facilitate religious understandings. The reality might have been the reverse.

    Chapter 3, "Idolatry," examines cultural borrowings during the Mongol period. While the Muslim responses to the Mongols were ambivalent due to religious, economic, and political considerations, the Pax Mongolica provided the opportunity for many religions to interact. Il-Khanid Iran witnessed both Buddhist dynamics under Muslim rule and the advancement of Islamic knowledge of local and international Buddhism (Chinese, Tibet, and Uyghur). A typical case examined here is the use of visual culture by Muslims, particularly the representation of Muhammad, to propagate Islam. As such, Islam began to take up the practice of idolatry, which it had previously attacked.

    Chapter 4, "Jihad," moves to the hostile period after the collapse of the Mongol Empire when the Muslims initiated holy war against Buddhists. Many socioeconomic reasons accounted for such a drastic change by Muslims. Six key movements and transformations, namely, the appearance of Jihad rhetoric, the Chinggisid principle, political fragmentation, Islamization, urbanization, and Naqshbandi revivalism, are raised and insightfully discussed. To be true, Buddhist-Muslim interactions before the early fifteenth century, when Chaghatai Ulus came to convert to Islam and expanded eastward, remained relatively peaceful. At the same time, Ming China saw the Mongols in "Inner Mongolia" as a strategic threat and allied with the Oriad in the Mongol plateau. Such a drastic political restructuring in the Eurasian landscape cut the economic lifeline of the Moghuls who saw the rise of the Naqshbandi revival. All these contributed to the new religio-geographical divide. In the east, the Oirad, originally a Muslim people, began to turn themselves into Buddhists, and the Mongols, who originally practiced all kinds of religions, came to be seen intertwined with Tibetan Lamaism, while the Uyghurs in Hami and Turfan, originally Buddhist, converted to Islam. The Inner Asian split between Turkic-speaking Muslims and Tibeto-Mongol Buddhists (p. 179) set up the platform for the jihad in the sixteenth century. Ironically, most religious violence of the Buddhist and Muslim theocracies did not target outward, and religious victims were largely...

  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #53 - September 29, 2014, 08:59 AM

    Quote
    the rise of an urban merchant class.


    Are we to be cursed by the shopkeepers for eternity, throwing up new religions every so often, like Buddhism, Islam, fascism and capitalism?

    Was Marx almost there but did not realise their capacity to reinvent themselves?

    What was Maggie's dad?

    Maybe we need a horror story about shopkeepers, and a new term, equivalent to Zombie?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #54 - September 29, 2014, 10:48 AM

    Does that mean now it is the Golden Age of Atheism / Agnosticism / Irreligion because most inventors of great things today are irreligious people?

    Religions + Politics = Problem
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #55 - September 29, 2014, 02:18 PM

    Chapter 4, "Jihad," moves to the hostile period after the collapse of the Mongol Empire when the Muslims initiated holy war against Buddhists. Many socioeconomic reasons accounted for such a drastic change by Muslims. Six key movements and transformations, namely, the appearance of Jihad rhetoric, the Chinggisid principle, political fragmentation, Islamization, urbanization, and Naqshbandi revivalism, are raised and insightfully discussed.


    Ideas have consequences.

    Jihadi ideas have real life consequences.

    fanatical revivalism has real consequences.

    Lesson from history right there.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #56 - October 03, 2014, 05:33 PM



    Chapter 6 of Empires of the Silk Road:

    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5jG1eHe3y4EC&q=Anonymous+Tokharian+poem#v=snippet&q=Anonymous%20Tokharian%20poem&f=false

    This looks like essential reading on the wider Central Asian context of the Abbasid revolution. Shame about the missing pages in the preview.

    Here's the introduction:

    http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i8882.html

    Most of the book isn't actually about Islam, which I guess reflects the historical reality.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #57 - October 06, 2014, 12:08 PM

    read this blog. its very good. about how 'golden age' science narrative is wrongly used by some Muslims

    http://thonyc.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/the-unfortunate-backlash-in-the-historiography-of-islamic-science/

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #58 - October 06, 2014, 02:01 PM

    ^Thanks for that link. The comments are worth reading as well.
  • The Golden Age of Islam and Islam
     Reply #59 - October 21, 2014, 07:08 PM

    Radio 4's In Our Time on the Battle of Talas

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04kf8ps
    Quote
    Melvyn Bragg and his guests discuss the Battle of Talas, a significant encounter between Arab and Chinese forces which took place in central Asia in 751 AD. It brought together two mighty empires, the Abbasid Caliphate and the Tang Dynasty, and although not well known today the battle had profound consequences for the future of both civilisations. The Arabs won the confrontation, but the battle marks the point where the Islamic Empire halted its march eastwards, and the Chinese stopped their expansion to the west. It was also a point of cultural exchange: some historians believe that it was also the moment when the technology of paper manufacture found its way from China to the Western world.

    GUESTS

    Hilde de Weerdt, Professor of Chinese History at Leiden University

    Michael Höckelmann, British Academy Postdoctoral Fellow in the Department of History at King's College London

    Hugh Kennedy, Professor of Arabic at SOAS, University of London


    Predictably Hugh Kennedy believes in the story of paper manufacture being brought to the Arabs by Chinese prisoners - because that's what later Arab sources claim - while the China experts dismiss it. In any case it's worth a listen.
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