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 Topic: Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..

 (Read 34837 times)
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  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #120 - August 14, 2014, 05:42 PM

    1). That is a myth.

    2).  Read or watch something with Israeli historian Miko Peled.The UN partition plan would give 55% of the territory to 1/4 of the population. By far recently arrived immigrants. In 1920 there was 700.000 people in the territory, about 75.000 of them Jews "almost all having immigrated within the last 40 years" according to British mandate resources.

    3), Well they should obviously not have threatened nor expelled their Jewish populations. But it was linked to the actions of Israel in 1947-1948 and their terrorising, massacres and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.


    4). Also, Christians have been part of the leadership of the Palestinian resistance since its start. Not to mention Marxists.

    5). The conflict in Palestine was not fueled with religion until the 80's where Israel wanted to help Hamas gain ground because they saw them as an opposition to secular PLO which the wanted to weaken.


    without that Islam,  Political Islam and that viral Islamic rules from unquestionable religious  books since 1980's  you would have not written those 5 points Nikolaj

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #121 - August 14, 2014, 05:50 PM

    Quote from: Ram
    Who started the 1967 War? Arabs attacked Israel and they lost. Now imagine that Arabs won the war - what do you think Arabs would have done to the Jews? Just ponder. I know the answer because I have the experience of living in a Muslim majority country.

    Nikolaj, It was Egypt, Jordan and Syria ganged up and attacked Israel without provocation - thank God the Arabs lost - God is Indeed Great!

    Israel had no reason to start the war. Isreal was prospering. Till early 1980's, I used to be pro-Palestine. After that my views changed gradually, when I heard more and more Muslims talking about elimination of Jews. I heard many Muslim openly making comments like "Hitler should have finished the job." "Jews are cursed". Etc.

    You did not answer my key question - what the Arabs would have done to Jews if they had won?


    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #122 - August 14, 2014, 07:15 PM

    That is a myth. Read or watch something with Israeli historian Miko Peled.

    You can get any result by picking your favourite historian.

    Israel did attack first in 1967, but did so because it was going to be attacked anyway. All those Palestinians who moved out of the conflict zone just prior to the war: why did they move? We both know it was because they were told to move by the Arab states, to prepare the battleground for military operations by those states. So, the war was coming whether Israel liked it or not. They just happened to be better at it. Much better. In fact, it was fucking hilarious, and literally awesome, at the same time (yes, I remember it happening).


    Quote
    Also, Christians have been part of the leadership of the Palestinian resistance since its start. Not to mention Marxists.

    The conflict in Palestine was not fueled with religion until the 80's where Israel wanted to help Hamas gain ground because they saw them as an opposition to secular PLO which the wanted to weaken.

    TBH I think the armed resistance has never done the Palestinians any good. I don't just mean in actual strategic terms on the ground. I mean in terms of their reputation too. From what I've seen over the past decades, every time the Arabs try to use force against Israel, either via state military or via insurgency/terrorism/whatever, they only succeed in making themselves look utterly incompetent, or complete arseholes, or both.

    Obviously this is subjective, but the Palestinian armed resistance has never been at all glorious IMO. From attacking a schoolbus in 1970, right through to killing an 85 year old bloke in a wheelchair and throwing his body off the Achille Lauro in 1985, the Palestinian armed resistance were pretty much a disgusting pack of shits. The Munich Olympics massacre was a massive PR fail, and did a good job of convincing most people that Mossad's idea of hunting down and assassinating the perps was a bloody good idea. Entebbe was another farce, and a big boost of Israel's reputation despite official UN grumbling just for form's sake. But hey, at least the PLO was friends with Idi Amin. Big win there.

    Then, when the Oslo accords finally get negotiated, Hamas and others immediately go on a rampage and totally sink any chance of peace. The peace process (such as it was) has never recovered from that. It's certainly fair to accuse Israel of blocking peace initiatives at times, but the Palestinians themselves have done an awful lot to sabotage them too.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #123 - August 14, 2014, 08:53 PM

    Regardless of who fired the first shot the conflict was already present before the series of wars even started. The Alpha nations had already withdraw from the area leave the Betas to fight over the bones(land). To be blunt the nations involved do not have the longest history of maintain their agreements.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #124 - August 14, 2014, 09:09 PM

    Quote
    Quote
    Nikolaj on Yesterday at 06:43 PM
    That is a myth. Read or watch something with Israeli historian Miko Peled.

    You can get any result by picking your favourite historian.

    Israel did attack first in 1967, but did so because it was going to be attacked anyway..........................


    why not hear Miko Peled?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9_OcCXvT6Y
    He is one of the STRONGEST SUPPORTER of Palestinians and he is a Jew comes out of a prominent Zionist family.
    Quote
    Born and raised in Jerusalem in 1961, Peled grew up in a prominent Zionist family; his grandfather, Avraham Katsnelson, signed Israel’s Declaration of Independence.[2] His father, Mattityahu Peled, fought in the 1948 war, and served as a general in the war of 1967; later, after the Israeli cabinet ignored his investigation of a 1967 alleged Israeli war crime, he became a peace activist and leading proponent of an Israeli dialogue with the PLO.

    There are plenty of high profile Jewish folks who criticize Israel and its policies .. But do we have any Prominent Muslim Politicians/Generals/preachers of Islam criticizing other side??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #125 - August 14, 2014, 11:00 PM

    Anybody who dared be for coexistence with Israel would be killed (see: King Abdallah I, Sadat, this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=13jhKI0gems ). Even Israeli Arabs get harassed and threatened if they're mildly positive about Israel. 

    The '67 war was essentially started by the Egyptians (closing the Straits, removing UN peacekeepers, banging the war drum, amassing troops), mostly thanks to the Soviets giving Syria/Egypt false intelligence that Israel was amassing troops at the Syrian border and because Nasser was a show off. And the Jordanians attacked unprovoked after being asked to stay out of it by the Israelis. You should get your history from more than just radical anti-Israel/anti-Zionist sources. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #126 - August 15, 2014, 05:14 AM

    Gaza’s tunnel paradox_How the Palestinian underground both defies and justifies the Israeli siege   from  aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/
    Quote
    There is an increasing fear among the Israeli public about what lies beneath. Representations of an underground Gaza circulating in Israel’s media outlets reveal how tunneling gives shape — at least in the imagination — to the underground as political space. And Hamas’ shift belowground is pushing Israel into terrain where its military and infrastructural control over Gaza and Palestinians recedes. Tunneling subverts one of the pillars of Israel’s security apparatus: hermetic enclosure.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared on national television on July 29 that Operation Protective Edge would not end “without neutralizing the terror tunnels.” Later, Major Gen. Sami Turgeman informed the press that Israeli forces were “but a few days away from destroying all the attack tunnels.” After Israeli troops withdrew from Gaza, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) reported 32 tunnels were destroyed, including 14 that connected Gaza with Israel.

    But can Israel fulfill its promise of destroying every tunnel? The question is not merely rhetorical. Sources in the IDF have spoken openly about the operational and technological challenges posed by the war against the tunnels; despite Israel’s military prowess, there is no underground equivalent of the Iron Dome, and tunnels are an elusive target.

    Yet as Netanyahu’s announcement made clear, their very elusiveness makes them an ideal justification for protracted conflict. Israel’s military might be able to destroy the tunnels, but it cannot undo the fact that tunneling shapes a political space where military victory seems increasingly out of reach.


    Rhizomes

    Gaza’s underground is a thick entanglement of rhizome-like structures that defy Israel’s economic embargo, sealed borders and ever-growing control from the air. Although Hamas cannot outdo Israel’s dominion of Gazan airspace, the dense architecture of tunnels that hollows the land on which Israelis lay birthright claims signals the intensification of a type of spatial politics that Eyal Weizman poignantly described back in 2006.

    “The territorial logic of Israel’s occupation of Palestine is increasingly manifested by a creeping progression along a vertical axis, in opposing directions,” he wrote shortly after the first major underground incursion by Hamas into Israel, which led to the kidnapping of an IDF soldier. “The more efficient the destructive capacity of the Israeli air force has become, the deeper the resistance has had to retreat belowground. This reality sustains the last symmetry of the asymmetrical conflict: absolute control of airspace and outer space … is mirrored by the enemy’s mastering of subterranean warfare.”


    Of the hundreds of tunnels running below Gaza, only a small fraction burrow into Israel, yet tunneling writ large is making Israeli territory more porous. The increased sense of insecurity among Israelis — which the government has successfully employed to justify the escalation of violence (first authorizing a ground operation on July 17, then again on July 29, with Netanyahu’s announcement) — attests to this shift.

    The sense of infallibility once created by the Iron Dome’s promise to stop enemy rockets from hitting targets in Israeli territory has been increasingly undermined from below.
    Economic resistance

    Tunnel warfare has evolved not only as Hamas’ adaptation to Israeli airpower but also, concurrently, as a mode of Palestinian assertion of political autonomy and resistance to economic sanctions. Yet the dominant media narrative presents the tunnels as a lucrative and often corrupt Hamas-led business.

    But this line of argument conflates Hamas’ political responsibility with the cycles of destruction, de-development, suffocation and isolation that Israel has used as a matter of policy to keep Gaza under control. There is no point in denying that Hamas has invested resources in underground Gaza that should have been aimed at supporting the life of Gazans. Yet Gaza’s dependence on Israel for its economy and infrastructure as well as for the provision of food and health and other social services by humanitarian agencies (funded by countries that support Israel) is not an aberration of the occupation but precisely what it is designed to do.

    As Noam Chomsky denounced in 2010 and later a leaked U.S. State Department cable confirmed, the function of the occupation is to keep Gazans barely alive in a strip at the brink of collapse.

    What the tunnels attempt to subvert — even if only temporarily — is precisely the cycle of destruction and impossible reconstruction that has proved essential to the project of establishing Israeli sovereignty. As the Goldstone report revealed, designed destruction has been a pattern of Israel’s military incursions since at least 2006 and constitutes one of the main operations of Israeli state building. Tunneling defies this political project.

    Moreover, as a deliberate and planned work of infrastructure, it is an attempt at asserting Hamas’ state-making ability. As Pelham noted:

    The tunnels have also helped Gaza rebuild itself. While international donors failed to deliver $4.5 billion in promised aid for reconstruction in protest at Hamas’ continued rule, tunnel operators have ferried in 7,500 tons of steel rods, cement and gravel daily, supplying 90 percent of the enclave’s construction materials. According to World Bank figures, construction starts in the first half of 2011 grew by 220 percent.

    There is undeniable irrationality in inciting one of the most powerful armies in the world to unleash its violence against a population crammed in a stretch of land with no way out. Unfortunately, as Weizman has pointed out, for years Israel has deliberately and explicitly created conditions in the Palestinian territories that are too complex and illogical to make any form of partition possible. Every repeated cycle of attack and restraint is followed by heightened weariness toward a political solution. Gaza becomes increasingly uninhabitable, and the Strip’s contested surface continues to grow thinner, leaving those between air and underground power stranded in the dystopia of not one but two sieges: the Israeli occupation and Hamas’ despotic rule.
    Weary public

    As for the Israeli public, it is growing increasingly weary of the IDF’s ability to wage tunnel warfare. On July 24, before the first 72-hour cease-fire, journalist Avi Issacharoff asked, “If … Israel announces in a few days that it has destroyed the attack tunnels and the IDF withdraws its forces into Israel, what then?” Given Israel’s capacity at devising new military technology, it might well be the case that a few years from now a subterranean equivalent of the Iron Dome could prevent further tunneling.

    But for now, Israel’s subsoil remains vulnerable to what is left of Hamas’ underground infrastructure and its resolve to fight the enemy from below. “It’s obvious that Hamas will rebuild the tunnels at an accelerated pace.” Issacharoff wrote. “In the next round, let’s say in another two years, IDF forces will not have to deal with 40 tunnels but double or triple that number.” Meanwhile, Hamas’ spokesman said the group’s determination “is more important than tunnels dug in the mud” because “out of the first … you can make thousands of the second.”

    Israel has long known about the tunnels below Gaza but chose to act only now, partly because offensive tunnels are a rather recent phenomenon but also because lifeline tunnels were not perceived as an immediate security threat. Now that Israel has confronted them, it has brought their larger political and economic significance into public consciousness. As Operation Protective Edge comes to an end, the tunneling, the war against it and the subterranean politics of Palestinian statehood remain nothing but unfinished business.


    That what she writes on those tunnels of Gaza and Israelis are taking full advantage of those HAM ASSES tunnels and their tunnel vision

    Classic pictures of today from that place  at this link ...  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2724886/Black-clad-ultra-Orthodox-Jews-make-five-day-ceasefire-enjoy-beach-just-miles-Gaza-Strip.html




    That is what Jews are doing and this is what Palestinians are doing


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #127 - August 15, 2014, 06:16 AM

    Israel Security Hinges on Peace with Palestinians SAYS ANOTHER KING Jordan's King Abdullah II



    Quote
    Jordan's King Abdullah II warned Sunday that Israel will only achieve security for its people through a peace settlement with the Palestinians leading to the establishment of their own state. Abdullah's remarks came in an interview published by the independent Al-Ghad newspaper as the death toll from Israeli air strikes on the Gaza Strip rose and efforts to secure a ceasefire remained elusive. The Jordanian king called the month-long Gaza conflict that has killed nearly 2,000 Palestinians "the bloodiest and most devastating in terms of casualties", and blamed Israel for the bloodshed.

    "First and foremost, Israel is responsible for the aggression in the Strip," said Abdullah. "Israel's security will not be achieved without a genuine pursuit of comprehensive just peace and the two-state solution," he said referring to a Palestinian state living side by side with Israel.

    "This is the only way for Israel to guarantee its security and gain the acceptance of the region and the entire world."

    Jordan King is a great guy as an individual but he seems to have forgotten about Islam, Origin of His country Jordan, how old is Jordan? Actually it is  Jordan and Saudi Arabia ., Jordan & Saudi Kingdoms can  will only achieve security for its people through a peace settlement with the Palestinians and Israelis,,

    Why don't we take out the borders around Palestine and let people of Palestine freely live/Move  in Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egyptian Sinai peninsula.,??  That is plenty of Land to build houses for Palestinians., Let the Palestinians people move  freely go to universities educate themselves  around the globe. May be one day in near future they will be come like Jews and one day make their own country next to Israel..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #128 - August 15, 2014, 04:44 PM

    The West Bank was part of Jordan up to 1967 War, and Gaza was part of Egypt. It makes sense for the West Bank to become of Jordan and the Gaza part of Egypt. The both territories should be given special status. If the Palestinians (I believe really are smart people) were intelligent they would make Gaza something like Hong Kong or Singapore.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #129 - August 16, 2014, 01:27 AM

    That is ridiculous. The Palestinians have a distinct national identity and culture, they're not Egyptians or Jordanians. Neither Jordan nor Egypt make any claims on the OPT, and the Palestinians have no interest in joining with either country. I've only ever heard this three state "solution" being peddled by (pro) Israeli right-wingers with other fringe/racist views. It's almost as absurd as the one state "solution". Nobody is interested in it at all. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #130 - August 16, 2014, 08:28 AM

    That is ridiculous. The Palestinians have a distinct national identity and culture, they're not Egyptians or Jordanians. Neither Jordan nor Egypt make any claims on the OPT, and the Palestinians have no interest in joining with either country. I've only ever heard this three state "solution" being peddled by (pro) Israeli right-wingers with other fringe/racist views. It's almost as absurd as the one state "solution". Nobody is interested in it at all. 

    If  Palestinians KEPT THEIR  a distinct national identity instead of Islamic Identity., that problem would have solved long ago  Al-Alethia.,  True  Palestinians  had/still some may have distinct national identity as Christian Palestinians

    This problem is Land/religions/colonial creation of arbitrary  borders after 2nd world war. Worst of all is the  spineless corrupt leaders that  ruled these lands  without giving freedom to people, NOT  allowing any others to evolve to become political leaders  are the problems of these areas. It is same everywhere. It is same in Africa, Same in Asia and same in middle east. We are just learning the history of nations. Colonial powers gave Jordan, Saudi Arabia to those who were loyal to the Queen of London..

    After  the fall/breakdown of Ottoman Empire at the end of first world war, the so-called Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan  became "Emirate of Transjordan" under British protectorate  and given to King  Abdullah I of Jordan

    Quote
    ...........The most serious threats to Emir Abdullah's position in Transjordan were repeated Wahhabi incursions from Najd into southern parts of his territory.[8] The emir was powerless to repel those raids by himself, thus the British maintained a military base, with a small air force, at Marka, close to Amman.[8] The British military force was the primary obstacle against the Wahhabis between 1922–1924, and was also utilized to help emir Abdullah with the suppression of local rebellions, first at Kura and later by Sultan Adwan, in 1921 and 1923 respectively.

    In 1928, Britain officially provided King Abdullah with full autonomy, though the British RAF continued to provide security to the Hashemite Emirate.

    Emirate of Transjordan had a population of 200,000 in 1920, 225,000 in 1922 and 400,000 (as Kingdom) in 1948.[9] Almost half of the population in 1922 (around 103,000) was nomadic..

    On 25 May 1946 the country became the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan when the ruling 'Amir' was re-designated as 'King'. Transjordan was one of the Arab states opposed to the second partition of Palestine and creation of Israel in May 1948. It participated in the war between the Arab states and the newly founded State of Israel. Thousands of Palestinians fled the Arab-Israeli fighting to the West Bank and Jordan. The Armistice Agreements of 3 April 1949 left Jordan in control of the West Bank and provided that the armistice demarcation lines were without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines.


    Quote
    On 24 April 1950, Jordan formally annexed the West Bank (including East Jerusalem)[11] declaring "complete unity between the two sides of the Jordan and their union in one state...at whose head reigns King Abdullah Ibn al Hussain".[12] All West Bank residents were granted Jordanian citizenship. The December 1948 Jericho Conference, a meeting of prominent Palestinian leaders and King Abdullah, voted in favor of annexation into what was then Transjordan.[13]

    Jordan’s annexation was regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. It was recognized only by Britain, Iraq and Pakistan.  The annexation of the West Bank more than doubled the population of Jordan.[17]

    On July 20, 1951, King Abdullah I was shot dead in Jerusalem while visiting the Al-Aqsa Mosque. His assassin, a Palestinian from the Husseini clan, was angry at Abdullah's apparent collusion with Israel in the carve-up of Palestine. Abdullah's grandson, Prince Hussein Ibn Talal was with him at the time and was hit too.




    Anyway that is Jordan Map 1948-1967. The East Bank is the portion east of the Jordan river, the West Bank is the part west of the river.

    You are absolutely right in the sense  the Palestinians HAD/HAVE a distinct national identity as long as fair majority of Christians/Christian politicians  were involved in opposing Israel but otherwise  it is "ISLAMIC IDENTITY.  

    Chritsian Exodus from Middle East

    Off course I don't Support what Mr. Ram is saying... but he is right that up to 1967 the West Bank was part of Jordan..

    As far as Gaza Strip is concerned.. this is simple story of history..
    Quote
    The occupation of the Gaza Strip by Egypt occurred between 1948 and October 1956 and again from March 1957 to June 1967. From September 1948, until its dissolution by Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser in 1959, the Gaza Strip was officially administered by the All-Palestine Government. Although largely symbolic, the government was recognized by most members of the Arab League. Following its dissolution, Egypt did not annex the Gaza Strip but left it under military rule pending a resolution of the Palestine question.

    .....In 1959, the Gaza Strip under the All-Palestine Government was officially merged into the short lived United Arab Republic. All references to an independent Gaza were abolished and Egyptian administration was officially imposed.
    In this move, Nasser de facto canceled any official Palestinian self-rule. In 1962 the Egyptian government established a Palestinian Legislative Council elected by the population.

    When the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) was founded in 1964, Nasser proclaimed that it would hold authority over Gaza, but that authority was never conferred in practice.[5] A year later, conscription was instituted for the Palestinian Liberation Army


    Since the creation of Israel in 1947,  Arab Rulers around Palestine played this Islamic game of "ERASE ISRAEL"  when ever it suited  for them to keep their power.  unfortunately Palestinians never   had a political  leaders to represent their cause. What all they had/have was the leaders and preachers  to represent Political Islam NOT the country for Palestinian people. 

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #131 - August 16, 2014, 09:34 AM

    Palestinians are under-represented in the military and the upper echelons of power in Jordan, it’s not their native homeland. And Egypt had them under military rule and only used them as pawns against Israel. Yeez, I think you overestimate the role of Islam in this, how about the batshit Jewish squatters in the West Bank and East Jerusalem? Remember Islam didn’t really play much of a role until the 1980s.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #132 - August 16, 2014, 09:43 AM

    That is ridiculous. The Palestinians have a distinct national identity and culture, they're not Egyptians or Jordanians. Neither Jordan nor Egypt make any claims on the OPT, and the Palestinians have no interest in joining with either country. I've only ever heard this three state "solution" being peddled by (pro) Israeli right-wingers with other fringe/racist views. It's almost as absurd as the one state "solution". Nobody is interested in it at all.

    There is diversity in every Arab country. Palestinians will add to the diversity of Jordan. They speak the same language. They follow the same religion. It is about time that Arabs learn to accept and be tolerant of diverse viewpoints.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #133 - August 16, 2014, 10:04 AM

    Do you think the Israelis should become “tolerant of diverse viewpoints” and give the Palestinians in the OPT Israeli citizenship?
    Diversity within a country =/= distinct national identities within a country. Palestinians are the natives of Palestine, they are not Jordanians. You’re asking them to accept the erasure of their nationhood; that’s obnoxious.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #134 - August 16, 2014, 10:08 AM

    Palestinians are under-represented in the military and the upper echelons of power in Jordan, it’s not their native homeland. And Egypt had them under military rule and only used them as pawns against Israel. Yeez, I think you overestimate the role of Islam in this, how about the batshit Jewish squatters in the West Bank and East Jerusalem? Remember Islam didn’t really play much of a role until the 1980s.

    Well Islam's role in creation of Israel itself is a  long story  and I do need to write years wise timeline of Israel from the day it was born to all the way  to 1980's .. as you think Islamic role in politics started in 80's     but let me answer you on that   batshit Jewish squatters .. what about THOSE RELIGIOUS FOOLS? If I were Palestinian politician  I will give the wall to cry on it everyday all the way to their hell or heaven...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #135 - August 17, 2014, 02:43 PM

    So I guess Hamas fire Cracker boxes are empty and Israeli soldiers don't have enough juice to stay in Gaza So everything looks peaceful outside   but THAT THAT  FOX SHOUTS AT THEIR READERS AND SUPPORTERS with this story Purported letter from inside Gaza tells of tunnel toil, Hamas cruelty



    Quote
    An emotional letter purportedly smuggled out of Gaza details one man’s harrowing participation in digging the tunnels that Israel blames for triggering the latest round of fighting and paints a bleak picture of life under Hamas control.

    The 30-year-old Palestinian to whom the letter is attributed describes accepting a cryptic job offer, then being taken in a windowless truck with five others to a building where they were forced to dig tunnels for long, gruelling shifts in stretches that lasted 10 days.

    “We drove for an hour and finally they stopped and took us into a closed building. We didn’t know where we were,” reads the letter, the text of which has been released on the Internet. “They showed us a hole in the ground and told us to go down.

    well read the rest of the story of a TUNNEL DIGGER at that link.., but the story was written by Paul Alster is an Israel-based journalist for FOX.. and we know how intelligent animal the FOX is...

    But I agree that the tunnels are there, fire  crackers parts are Smuggled into Gaza., The problem is Israelis knew  these things exist in Gaza and they allowed it freely. They were just waiting for right time to send Gaza back to stone age.  

    So I tell my fox friends living in Israel., instead of that war /killing/death/destruction.,  take the walls away and build the schools in Gaza and west bank., Let the young people from these places travel abroad, let the Jewish kids and Muslim kids go to school together at least in some places. .,  let them learn how other societies live so they can also build their own society next to Israel without religious rogues coupled to political animals  talking advantage of uneducated Palestinians.  

    And other news says  Gaza conflict: Peace talks resume in Cairo that is from BBC .cpm

    and this Hamas Rejects Egyptian Proposal for Long-Term Gaza Truce   is from  bloomberg news.com

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #136 - August 18, 2014, 07:45 AM

    So Today's news  on that Palestine says "Ummah will never accept Israeli occupation of Al Quds: JI emir"


    A large number of supporters of Jamaat-i-Islami attend a rally held on Sunday to express solidarity with the Palestinians of Gaza.   and that picture is from Karachi.. Land of Pure..

    Quote
    KARACHI: Jamaat-i-Islami emir Sirajul Haq has declared that Muslim Ummah will never accept Israeli occupation of Al Quds.

    Speaking to participants of the ‘Gaza Million March’ organised by his party on Sunday, he expressed solidarity with the oppressed Pales­tinians and condemned Israeli air strikes on unarmed people of Gaza. The rally from the Baloch Colony bridge to the FTC building on Sharea Faisal showed that Pakistanis were ready to render all kinds of sacrifices for the freedom of Palestine and Al Quds, participants said.

    Quote
    Those who took part in the rally, including women, children and elders, waved the Palestinian and Jamaat flags. They also carried banners and placards inscribed with slogans like “Get Gaza Freed”, “Down with Israel and USA” and “Labbaik ya Gaza”.

    They also chanted slogans against Israel and the United States and in favour of the people of Gaza. Describing the rally as the biggest gathering in the history of Karachi, the JI emir said its participants had shown that they were with the Palestinian people in their struggle for freedom of Al Quds.


    “We will never accept the occupation of Al Quds by the Jews.

    Quote
    He said the Muslim countries had all the resources, including seven million army personnel, 4,000 tanks, 15,000 aircraft and 70 per cent of the world’s oil reserves, but its rulers had failed even to call a timely meeting of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation.


    Mr Haq said he had written letters to the rulers of Saudi Arabia and Iran and met Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, but received no response from them. He reminded Army Chief Gen Raheel Sharif that Pakistan was the name of an ideology and the country needed to protect the Muslims all over the world.

    The JI emir said if the Muslim rulers did not discharge their duty, 180 million Pakistanis would do it for them.

    He said the JI had collected donations of Rs50m for the people of Gaza. He assured Hamas leader Khaled Mashal that every Pakistani was with the Palestinian people. In his address by phone earlier, Mr Mashal paid tribute to the “Pakistani brothers for expressing solidarity with the Muslims of Gaza”.
     
    He regretted that the rulers of 56 Muslim countries “remained silent over the Israeli aggression in Gaza”.................... Later, the participants set ablaze the flags of the United States and Israel.

    yes..yes collect the money from Saudi Kings and give bit of it to Hamas leader Khaled Mashal.,   But.. but YOU FOOL ... Khaled Mashal will spend your three hundred thousand dollars in Dubai meetings with Hamas heroes not on suffering people of Gaza  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #137 - August 18, 2014, 11:59 AM

    Not exactly relevant but had to post this somewhere:

    Four arrested at Arab-Israeli wedding in Tel-Aviv

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/arab-israeli-wedding-protest-four-arrested

    My favourite tidbit: 

    Quote
    Lehava spokesman and former lawmaker Michael Ben-Ari denounced Jews intermarrying with non-Jews of any denomination as "worse than what Hitler did", alluding to the murder of six million Jews across Europe in the second world war.


    LOL. Miscegenation is literally worse than Hitler. What a bunch of baboons. Very unfortunate for the poor couple.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #138 - August 18, 2014, 12:06 PM

    Not exactly relevant but had to post this somewhere:

    Four arrested at Arab-Israeli wedding in Tel-Aviv

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/arab-israeli-wedding-protest-four-arrested  ...

    I was just reading that story here  at  latimes.com where you got that picture of little girls in niqab to describe that word "Gibbons"

    so this the couple..


    Mahmoud Mansour, left, a Muslim Arab from Jaffa, and Morel Malka, a Jewish Israeli who converted to Islam, are shown Sunday on their wedding day.  

    Mideast Romeo & Juliet? Arab-Jewish couple married amid turmoil in Israel

    stupid people should NOT care/worry about who marries who..  as long as the products of such marriage are  Zebras  NOT Baboons and gibbons     Cheesy Cheesy

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #139 - August 18, 2014, 12:09 PM

    Dahlia Scheindlin writing in +972
    http://972mag.com/wedding-crashers-do-anti-miscegenation-protesters-hate-or-love-judaism/95680/
    Quote
    With chants of “Death to Arabs” and “Mohammed is dead” in the background, the 30-something couple spoke earnestly, their faces worried. “As far as I’m concerned,” said the woman, an economist who didn’t want to be named, “I came to a funeral. The father is in mourning. I’m here to support the family in their pain with our presence.”

    They have come to a grimy parking lot outside a tacky mall in Rishon LeZion, deep in the center of Israel, to protest the wedding of an Arab Muslim Israeli and an Israeli woman born Jewish, who converted to Islam. The wedding is in a hall about 200 meters away from the protest, as per a court order. About 200 protestors have gathered in the thick, hot air. The couple talking to me come from Rishon; they say they are secular.

    The band of youth who have been chanting close by start jumping, in formation, screaming: “There are no classes in Gaza/because there are no kids in Gaza!” – referring to the hundreds of children killed by Israeli forces during Operation Protective Edge – and “Jews have souls; Arabs are sons of bitches!” The secular husband gestures towards them. “I don’t agree with that ‘death to Arab’ stuff. It’s too bad this has become a platform for extremism.” He bounces a giggling, pigtailed toddler. “We are here to give the bride’s family hope, to remind them: it’s reversible.”

    The ingredients are all there for an explosion. Large placards with elaborate slogans, such as “what future can there be for someone who forgot her past?” are spread on the ground for participants who might want one. A 15-year old girl in a long skirt holds a huge canvas sign speaking of shame. The core of the protest is a group of wild-eyed teenage boys, dotted with far-right stalwarts such as former MK Michael Ben Ari and Kahanist Hebron settler Baruch Marzel. A left-wing counter-protest in support of the wedding is taking place across the way; one of them murmurs that the anti-wedding group is from La Familia, the thuggish sports fans widely thought to have been behind the murder of Mohammed Abu Khdier, in July.

    Many of the protestors are wrapped in Israeli flags, draped over black T-shirts of “Lehava: The Jewish honor guard.” Lehava is a self-anointed “anti-assimilation” movement. The previous week, the group posted Mahmoud and Morel’s wedding invitation on the internet, exhorting followers to come demonstrate. Mahmoud and Morel sought a court injunction.

    Emotions rose: On the day of the wedding, the court ruled that the demonstration would be permitted at a distance of 200 meters from the hall, and the activists would not be allowed to communicate with the couple for 90 days. President Reuven Rivlin condemned the demonstration as racist incitement, and writing on his Faceboook page, gave the couple his blessing.

    Fearing violence, earlier reports said the couple was forced to hire 33 security guards at their own expense – for NIS 15,000 (over $4000). In addition the parking lot is full of police who push the demonstrators back when they try to get closer to the wedding hall. Still they advance; within an hour, Lehava activists are just across the street from the entrance. An angry counter-protestor demands that a policeman enforce the 200 meter distance. The policeman responds that he does not have a copy of the court order on him, although it has been widely reported in the press.

    The counter-protest supporting the couple is a gaggle of barely 50 people holding motley clusters of flowers, raggedly cut. They dangle small construction-paper signs saying “Freedom of Love!” decorated with hearts. What they lack in organization, they make up for in joy: they are singing a robust unaccompanied version of “The Flower in my Garden,” an iconic, fast-paced love song played at nearly every (Jewish) wedding in Israel. Whenever a wedding guest walks by, they cheer and clap “Mazal Tov!!” The guests, with women in high heels, head coverings and jewlery, smile with slight embarrassment and hurry toward a group of burly security men waiting to search them at the door.

    Something about the situation has struck a nerve. Many of these counter-protestors tell me that they are not political and generally don’t go to demonstrations. I run into my neighbor, a 34-year-old man named Uriel who grew up in a Haredi family in Kfar Habad. About a decade ago, he defected from his community and became secular. He says this is his first demonstration ever.  Nir, also 34, works for the appliance company Tadiran and says he is usually not an activist, but Lehava’s protest made his blood boil. “Next time it could be against people for the color of their eyes.” Meirav and Assaf, a young couple from Tel Aviv, echo the sentiment. Next, they say, it could be against Ashkenazi and Mizrahi marriages.

    Lehava’s theme of “Anti-assimilation” appears to be a sanitized label to win legitimacy for an organization known mainly for harassing people. One woman at the counter-protest has a partner from Darfur. She says she has been shoved and hit by Lehava members. When they threatened her with further violence on the internet, she says she went to the police, who told her there was nothing they could do – she should hire a lawyer.

    Those protesting the wedding are concerned about more than assimilation. Some say that the bride herself doesn’t realize her awful mistake. “Somewhere deep in her heart, she knows it is wrong,” says Simcha, a 51-year old religious woman who immigrated from France in 1981. “You can’t convert to Islam – you’re born a Jew, you have a Jewish soul.” Others tell me that Jewish women have been manipulated, brainwashed or otherwise trapped into converting to be with Muslim men. Simcha says that Muslim men beat women and drag them by the hair.

    Another resounding theme is that the bride’s children, Jewish according to Jewish law, will be raised Arab. That makes them potential terrorists. One sign says: “You wanted a grandchild? You got a Shahid!” (martyr). The wife in an older religious couple from Kochav Yair, a well-heeled suburb in central Israel says, “the children could all turn out to be Hamas! They might be Jews killing Jews, and they wouldn’t even know it.”

    What about the idea that a woman has a right to choose, that it’s the couple’s private business? Tiferet, the 15-year old from Beit Shemesh carrying a sign, is shy but firm. “Just because someone jumps off a roof doesn’t mean I’ll let her. She’s not only hurting herself. She’s hurting all of Am Yisrael.”

    And there at the heart of the summer circus lies the core: a struggle to define, re-define, own or appropriate Judaism in the state of Israel today. Uriel, the formerly ultra-orthodox man, explains that Judaism is fundamentally racist, while a fellow pro-wedding protester chants “Judaism is not racism.” A Lehava activist shouts at cars looking for parking. “Whoever goes to the wedding is destroying Am Yisrael!” while others insist that assimilation is more dangerous than physical persecution.

    Legal scholar Aeyal Gross, in an excellent Haaretz article, argues that the state itself set the stage for such attitudes by denying legal frameworks for religious intermarriage in Israel. Yair Ettinger, also in Haaretz, writes that the real problem in Israel is assimilation through alienation or apathy, not intermarriage. How many Israelis simply detest Judaism for all it has come to represent socially and politically here? In my experience, Uriel, now a sworn atheist, represents many secular people with less dramatic stories.

    But last night what might have been a healthy debate looked for all the world like anti-miscegenation activities from some of the ugliest days of American not-so-distant history. Gross writes that the very fact of a public discussion about such a wedding is a shameful. Meanwhile, one protestor said “we want the bride to have a pinch in her heart. We want her to know that she’s missing something.” What? Membership in the community of Lehava?

    Deep in their own hearts, the protestors too know about secular Israeli alienation from Judaism; but they may not know or recognize their culpability. One older religious woman referenced the “Sh’ma” as she spoke to me, perhaps the most important prayer in the Jewish canon. She paused and said “do you know that sentence?

  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #140 - August 18, 2014, 12:16 PM


    But zeca.. THERE IS  PROBLEM THERE and one should recognize that problem.. and the problem is FUCKING RELIGIONS
    Quote
    an Arab Muslim Israeli and an Israeli woman born Jewish, who converted to Islam.

     
    see that thing at your link.. Why should she need to convert in to Islam? can these fucking religions allow people live as mixed religious  couple without one converting in to other?? 

    I say that guy should go to some  rabi and covert in to Judaism ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #141 - August 18, 2014, 12:19 PM

    Exactly Yeez!
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #142 - August 18, 2014, 12:22 PM

    Yeez - Israeli law doesn't allow Jews to marry non-Jews, which I guess would have been a good enough reason for her to convert. She may also have converted out of conviction and/or pressure from her husband and the in-laws, but as the law stands it makes it difficult for anyone in her position not to convert.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #143 - August 18, 2014, 12:30 PM

    Yeez - Israeli law doesn't allow Jews to marry non-Jews, which I guess would have been a good enough reason for her to convert. She may also have converted out of conviction and/or pressure from her husband and the in-laws, but as the law stands it makes it difficult for anyone in her position not to convert.

    zeca .. Can you give me the link on that please..  If it is there it is STUPID law of a stupid government ..

     In Islam It is  a strict religious law that is practiced in Islam and preached in Islam by these Baboons of Islam..   I am actually bit angry and upset  type it out.. i will read it tomorrow..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #144 - August 18, 2014, 12:35 PM

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/05/20135218450744543.html
    Quote
    [...]
    Israeli matrimonial law
    Israeli matrimonial law is based on the Millet system employed in the Ottoman Empire. According to this confessional community system, issues of personal status such as marriage and divorce are governed by the religious law of the parties concerned. For example, Israeli Islamic law courts have exclusive jurisdiction in matters of personal status concerning Israeli Muslim citizens. Therefore, Israeli citizens can only marry spouses of the same religion and only by their own recognised religious authority. That is to say, interfaith and non-religious marriages are not allowed in Israel.  
    [...]


    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/shavuot/.premium-1.596576
    Quote
    [...]
    There is no civil marriage. Jews can only be married in a religious ceremony, by an Orthodox rabbi under the authority of the Chief Rabbinate, the top religious authority for Jews in Israel. This means there is also no interfaith marriage between Jews and non-Jews, since Orthodox Judaism does not allow mixed unions. Israelis who belong to other streams of Judaism, such as Reform or Conservative, must still tie the knot in front of an Orthodox rabbi in a traditional ceremony if they want their marriage to be recognized by the state.

    Other religious authorities recognized by Israel, including those of Muslims and of Christian denominations, also do not perform interfaith marriages, so a Jew cannot marry a Muslim or a Christian unless one member of the couple converts to the faith of his or her partner. (Islamic law technically allows for a Muslim man to marry a Christian or a Jewish woman, as long as their children are raised Muslim, but Muslim clerics and scholars frown on the practice.)

    This religious monopoly, which has no equal among other Western democracies, puts people whose religious status is registered as “other” in a particularly precarious position. This mainly affects immigrants from the former Soviet Union who received Israeli citizenship because they had at least one Jewish parent or grandparent, but are not considered Jews under religious law, which require a person’s mother to be Jewish.
    [...]

  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #145 - August 18, 2014, 12:46 PM

    God that sucks.

    Dutch system is a lot better, no Religious marriage is legally binding; you go to the town hall first and get married there and then have a ceremony in the Church, Mosque, Synagogue, Gurdwara or Temple.
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #146 - August 18, 2014, 12:50 PM

    ^That's the best way to do it, civil marriage first, then whatever religious ceremony they want after.

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #147 - August 18, 2014, 12:55 PM

    Why interfaith marriage is on the rise in Israel - and why it's a problem

    Jewish-Arab child: My parents' marriage was a mistake
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #148 - August 18, 2014, 12:55 PM

    stupid people should NOT care/worry about who marries who..  as long as the products of such marriage are  Zebras  NOT Baboons and gibbons     Cheesy Cheesy



    Cheesy Yes, yeez! Israel/Palestine needs more zebras and less baboons and gibbons on both sides!

    Yeah, Israel has a communalist system re family law matters, essentially identical to the rest of the countries in the Levant. Very shitty system. Marrying abroad is popular for Israelis who marry out of their sect. There was talk of introducing civil marriage recently, not sure if that's headed anywhere. 
  • Gaza-Israel Peace Moves and Peace news..
     Reply #149 - August 18, 2014, 01:04 PM

    ^That's the best way to do it, civil marriage first, then whatever religious ceremony they want after.


    I am fairly sure legally as well it isn't legal to do it the other way around, I might be wrong.
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