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Theme Changer

 Topic: We should do Dawah

 (Read 4029 times)
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  • We should do Dawah
     OP - August 02, 2014, 10:35 PM
    Spread the word of non-Allah to the believer.

    There are so many 'Muslims' out there who dont really care, they are just going along with it.

    Ex-Muslims should be a prominent, singular and cohesive voice. For too long the Muslims have had it too easy and without real criticism from their own community.

    Islamic beliefs are false, uncool, and weak and the believers should be made to feel that they themselves are all those things. They push their doubts aside, so we should bring them to the fore. They pretend they are strong and righteous, so we should get them to admit their weakness and fear.

    In the UK I think its possible to go on the offensive. Just a thought though...

  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #1 - August 02, 2014, 10:37 PM
    Yap. mubs_352 you are riot.,  but let me remove few word to make it better
    Quote from: mubs_352 on August 02, 2014, 10:35 PM
    Spread the word of non-Allah to the believer.
    ..........................

    Islamic   ALL beliefs are stupid, backward, false, uncool, weak and pathetic and the believers should be made to feel that they themselves are all those things. They push their doubts aside.................


    Yap.. now that sounds better Mr. mubs_352
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #2 - August 03, 2014, 02:13 AM
    Honestly I prefer just getting information out there. If someone wants to look up atheist/non-theist videos, books, websites, they can do so. I don't like the idea of some kind of non religious dawah.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #3 - August 03, 2014, 04:28 AM
    I would like to see non religious dawah, but me myself i dont like to push anyone to be an atheist, even though i think all religions make no sense, still.. Even though, i d like to see religion vanishhhh one day Smiley

    So, any dawah volunteer? :p
    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #4 - August 03, 2014, 10:24 AM
    Non-religious dawah is stupid.

    The thing that made me pissed about religion was their sense of righteousness. I do not want CEMB to become like that.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #5 - August 03, 2014, 10:45 AM
    And we can't have an "ex-Muslim cohesive and unified front", because "ex-Muslims" are a diverse group with very different opinions and values. It like saying "non-Muslims" should this or that. I mean, there are so many spiritual, religious and ideological roads a person can take even as a Muslim. What about a non/ex-Muslim? I totally agree with ronald_odair on this one as well.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #6 - August 03, 2014, 10:49 AM
    Ex-Muslim awareness is a good idea. People need to be aware of ex-Muslims.

    Ex-Muslim dawah is a bad thing. It reeks of arrogance and portrays ex-Muslims as something they are not: a monolothic entity who share the same views and desire the same outcomes. In reality, we have one thing in common, which is that we are ex-Muslims. The reason for our ex-Muslim status are as diverse as (insert analogy here).

    Challenging Muslims views via videos, articles and debates is not the same thing as dawah.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #7 - August 03, 2014, 11:01 AM
    Mainstream public awareness of ex-muslim issues is key. The fact of the matter is, in the countries most CEMB members reside in, people have no clue just how hard it is and would be shocked to learn. They view many of the issues members face as something in times past, not an issue in today's world except perhaps with a small minority of cases. Needs to change.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #8 - August 03, 2014, 12:46 PM
    I agree with comments above that:

    Increase awareness by providing info/alternative views =  Afro
    Preaching/trying to "convert" =  Flaming mad



    I think Maryam Namazie  001_wub  does a great job! But the problem is that not many ex-Muslims are willing to go public and get noticed, like she does - and she can't do everything herself.

    I've always thought that if we ran an ad campaign on London buses or even TV just to let people know Ex-Muslims exist and we have a support network - it would help enormously.

    There are a lot of ex-Muslims in closets out there thinking they are alone. If only we could let them know they are not.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #9 - August 03, 2014, 01:03 PM
    Imagine a short, simple ad like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4PZsko2YtA
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #10 - August 03, 2014, 01:34 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 03, 2014, 11:01 AM
    Mainstream public awareness of ex-muslim issues is key. The fact of the matter is, in the countries most CEMB members reside in, people have no clue just how hard it is and would be shocked to learn. They view many of the issues members face as something in times past, not an issue in today's world except perhaps with a small minority of cases. Needs to change.


    Thanks for this perspicacious analysis. Let's neglect the fact that there were large atheistic socialistic movements in islamic countries during the cold war, shall we?

    It is precisely the forces of this insidious secular humanism that, through its total inability to grapple with dialectics, is unable to offer a constructive analysis of salafism or islamic identity politics.

    We should frankly admit that, no, not every belief should be tolerated under the guise of an infantile imaginary and the permissive society. Freedom, itself, is a misnomer and can only be approximated to non-corellates, that is to say, freedom no longer becomes freedom when fascism or radical islamism enters the equasion. Totalitarianism, in this regard, is freer than liberalism.

    Liberalism needs (no, requires) anti-authoritarian totalitarianism to be saved.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #11 - August 03, 2014, 01:39 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on August 03, 2014, 10:45 AM
    And we can't have an "ex-Muslim cohesive and unified front", because "ex-Muslims" are a diverse group with very different opinions and values. It like saying "non-Muslims" should this or that. I mean, there are so many spiritual, religious and ideological roads a person can take even as a Muslim. What about a non/ex-Muslim? I totally agree with ronald_odair on this one as well.


    I agree, CEMB campaign should be all about promoting freedom of belief, expression, and stand against belief systems that are imposed upon a child or person because of nationality, upbringing, etc.  "Ex muslim, coming out, muslim-athiest" labels to some may appear a little extreme, all depends if you want to be a fundamentalist group, if so be prepared for major backlash from muslim extremist.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #12 - August 03, 2014, 01:46 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 03, 2014, 02:13 AM
    Honestly I prefer just getting information out there. If someone wants to look up atheist/non-theist videos, books, websites, they can do so. I don't like the idea of some kind of non religious dawah.


    Same. As long as people aren't imposing their ways and accept secularism, pluralism and free exchange of ideas (not trying to censor blasphemy), they can believe in whatever the hell they want. I think visibility and acceptance of apostasy/ex-Muslims is also important in a "we're human beings. It's not okay to kill/abuse us" sort of way, not in a "your religion is stupid and you should follow the real straight path" sort of way.  

    Quote
    We should frankly admit that, no, not every belief should be tolerated under the guise of an infantile imaginary and the permissive society. Freedom, itself, is a misnomer and can only be approximated to corellates, that is to say, freedom no longer becomes freedom when fascism or radical islamism enteres the equasion. Totalitarianism, in this regard, is freer than liberalism. 


    Yes, we should oppose fascism and radical Islam but why would that necessitate proselytising atheism? 
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #13 - August 03, 2014, 02:02 PM
    It wouldn't. It would involve mobilising a confident total will against a threat.

    Wouldn't it have been more beneficial for the Nasserist regime to exert intellectual (discoursive) terror against Qutb? Nasserism was so unsure in its ideology that it wasn't able to distinguish between liberal islam and radical islamism. A totalitarian dialectical will wouldn't have this problem because it would be so sure in its weltanschauung that it wouldn't see islam as a threat but societal forces that make islam into a threat. I am advocating complete positivist materialism in comparison to pseudo-religions such as secular humanism.

    Society can only be governed materialistically, through honest and tailored enquiry.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #14 - August 03, 2014, 02:13 PM
    Quote from: schizo on August 03, 2014, 02:02 PM
    A totalitarian dialectical will wouldn't have this problem because it would be so sure in its weltanschauung that it wouldn't see islam as a threat but societal forces that make islam into a threat. I am advocating complete positivist materialism in comparison to pseudo-religions such as secular humanism.

    Society can only be governed materialistically, through honest and tailored enquiry.


    I don't suppose you could dumb this down for me. I don't understand what you are saying? What would this mean in 'practical' terms? What is so wrong with a liberal society like we have in the UK for example?
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #15 - August 03, 2014, 02:14 PM
    Secular humanism proper is not a pseudo-religion. Your criticism seems to be directed at the ideas of a few naive, but well-meaning, fringe humanists that want substitute social outlets to replace Judeo-christian ones.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #16 - August 03, 2014, 02:20 PM
    Quote from: schizo on August 03, 2014, 01:34 PM
    Thanks for this perspicacious analysis. Let's neglect the fact that there were large atheistic socialistic movements in islamic countries during the cold war, shall we?

    It is precisely the forces of this insidious secular humanism that, through its total inability to grapple with dialectics, is unable to offer a constructive analysis of salafism or islamic identity politics.

    We should frankly admit that, no, not every belief should be tolerated under the guise of an infantile imaginary and the permissive society. Freedom, itself, is a misnomer and can only be approximated to non-corellates, that is to say, freedom no longer becomes freedom when fascism or radical islamism enters the equasion. Totalitarianism, in this regard, is freer than liberalism.

    Liberalism needs (no, requires) anti-authoritarian totalitarianism to be saved.


    Also I didn't understand what was wrong with what Quod said and how it is connected to your post on it, above.

    He simply said people in the UK and US etc... are not aware of what many ex-Muslims have to endure in their communities and would be shocked if they did and more information should be out there to help those people.

    Sorry, but what's the problem with that Huh?
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #17 - August 03, 2014, 02:27 PM
    there's no need to do 'dawah'. But debunking the most egregious and aggressive lies of actual dawah peddlers is useful. In the same way that Christian evangelists are confronted and their rhetoric, claims and styles opposed.

    There is lots of dawah being made that differs from the kind of stuff that Christians put out. There is still a concerted campaign of dawahganda claiming that the Quran contains scientific miracles, including newspaper adverts in local papers being taken out. This is quite well funded and is an example of the kind of stuff that should be opposed and exposes rigorously.

    But that is different from prosletysing. Its more a case of refuting and opposing fake claims of evangelists.

    Raising awareness of what Exmuslims face is important too but not comparable to 'dawah'



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #18 - August 03, 2014, 03:47 PM
    Propagate. ..don't hesitate
    proselytise...telling you lies
    Normal lives...kiss goodbyes
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #19 - August 03, 2014, 03:48 PM
    I'm working on a dawah rythm at the moment, as you can see I haven't got very far.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #20 - August 03, 2014, 07:35 PM
    There are a lot of different issues.

    The main thing I reckon is this:

    A lot Muslims from the UK come from certain communities. They grow up with people from the same community and all their relatives from the same group. Say for instance we are talking about a particular Pakistani community, for instance. So for these people being 'Pakistani' is percieved to be inextricably tied up to being Muslim. Everyone they know from their 'community' has the same experiences and is, as far as they know, a Muslim. So being Muslim is is percieved to be the main identity. My point is that we can show these people that it is'nt, and they can be pretty much the same and not be Muslim. Nothing else need change.

    Also, that being non-Muslim is not the same as being non-Pakistani, or Indian, or Bengali or Somali or whatever.

    One tactic I employ is the separation of Islam and South Asian identity, for instance, I can say to someone "oh, you're not really an Indian (Paki), you're a wannabe Arab with the way you dress, talk etc and dont have any respect for India culture and your own ancestors who were not Muslims. You're a sellout". etc

    Mariam Namazi can only inspire those very-left liberal minded-intellectual types so she is irrelevant to the many average non-white Muslims who still need/want to remain part of their communities.

    I think a god idea is to start with a strong web presence, similar to IERA but the opposite. Being a thorn in the backside of the likes of IERA would allow us good exposure to the target audience. We should be their main debating opponents, rather than the Atheists. However, we need some good 'branding' around this.

    I dont think we need to push anything other than the non-islamic element, We shouldnt use labels like Atheist or Agnostic, Humanist etc. Certainly not appear to be left-leaning as this would quickly alienate many. 

    Clearly 'Dawah' was the incorrect term.
     
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #21 - August 03, 2014, 07:48 PM
    I dont see this being done by CEMB, but by some kind of off-shoot.

  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #22 - August 03, 2014, 07:52 PM
    Quote from: billy on August 03, 2014, 02:27 PM

    But that is different from prosletysing. Its more a case of refuting and opposing fake claims of evangelists.


    We should be like the Ghostbusters. Nay! The.....

    DAWAHBUSTERS!!

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #23 - August 03, 2014, 07:53 PM
    When Muslims traditionally observe criticism, it is from the 'outside', the white christian, the white atheist etc. People who are not only different in religion, but in every other way inc background, experience, family values etc. So it's easy for them to ignore and externalise it. If criticism came from within it would be much more effective.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #24 - August 03, 2014, 08:14 PM
    I know. It will take time. But I will not join an organisation that goes out there and challenges these beliefs. At least, not for the moment. Ex-Muslims should think twice before exposing themselves to the public.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #25 - August 03, 2014, 08:17 PM
    I don;t think de-conversion should be preached, encouragement of educating people on critical thinking should be promoted and if that is done jettisoning religious beliefs is a by-product and the conclusion one reaches. Valueing processes of reasoning lead people to the truth and critical thinking enable people to develop a mechanism that lets them differentiate reality from make-believeland.
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #26 - August 03, 2014, 08:29 PM
    I agree. No-need to proclaim ones self as 'NON-MUSLIM' or try to convince people why their particular fairytales are wrong. Let them do it themselves. We should all get together and promote one thing called:

    Critical Thinking. David Cameron, are you listening? Stop investing money in that Britishness initivative or the PREVENT strategies. We need to promote and inculcate an appreciation for critical thinking skills. Put that on the National Curriculum and integrate it into all the subjects. Create a controlled asessment unit in which students at GCSE level, but beginning at all Keystages, must tackle a subject and analyse 'truth claims' around it and evaluate the validity of such claims.

    Don't preach, but teach the tools to learn.

    Teach a man to learn then he will ask you the questions, teach a man to think then he will question himself.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #27 - August 03, 2014, 08:43 PM
    I think at least 40 percent of muslims are not really muslims. Deep down they know its all a load of codswollop but they keep up appearances coz of family etc. They r already non believers in disguise. I am one of those by the way but day by day the disbelief shows in my words and actions (going tomoro to get my nails done, then theyl all know i cant possibly read namaz coz the wudhu wdnt b valid coz of my nails) lols.
    "Question with boldness even the existence of God...because...if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear"...Thomas Jefferson
  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #28 - August 03, 2014, 09:25 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 03, 2014, 08:14 PM
    I know. It will take time. But I will not join an organisation that goes out there and challenges these beliefs. At least, not for the moment. Ex-Muslims should think twice before exposing themselves to the public.


    Jedi, you have to remember that by hiding or keep a low-profile we are not helping our cause. Of course there is a danger in being open about it, so it needs to be considered carefully.  I too would not be comfortable openly joining such an organisation at the moment. But not everyone will be in our situation. The organisation could remain somewhat anonymous anyway, especially if its mostly online.

    It is just a thought to get ideas out there.

    Quote from: Jedi on August 03, 2014, 08:29 PM

    Critical Thinking. David Cameron, are you listening? Stop investing money in that Britishness initivative or the PREVENT strategies. We need to promote and inculcate an appreciation for critical thinking skills. Put that on the National Curriculum and integrate it into all the subjects. Create a controlled asessment unit in which students at GCSE level, but beginning at all Keystages, must tackle a subject and analyse 'truth claims' around it and evaluate the validity of such claims.



    I'm not sure how effective this could be. Most Muslim communities are already distrustful of the state and state education see Evolution, Big Bang, sex ed, religious ed, free-mixing etc.

    I think at somepoint a backlash needs to happen from within. Currenty I see Muslims in Britain becoming MORE ISLAMIC than even their parents (it goes in this direction partly because there is no opposing voice). This will annoy the ones who just go along with it, and they might be open to the ideas of apostates.



  • We should do Dawah
     Reply #29 - August 03, 2014, 09:33 PM
    mubs, would you like to write an intro in the Introductions section?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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