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 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

 (Read 226093 times)
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  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #810 - August 23, 2014, 01:17 PM

    Yes you are absolutely right, those who actually go and make the effort, risking their lives, are the ones who make the difference, and I admire them, they are doing something I am unable to, I cannot disagree with you.

    I don't know you personally or where you are right now, so it is possible that you are fighting ISIS and defending Erbil right now, and if you are then I fully respect you for your bravery and valour, and you would have, at the very least, my moral support.

    But even so, I can still hate what these zombies stand for, even if I am not actively involved in stopping it, I guess if my life depended on it, I would have to bite the bullet, but does that necessarily mean that everyone in the whole world have to pick up a rifle and trudge to Iraq in order to be justified in condemning the actions of these monsters?

    Anyway let's not make this thread a ding-dong between us two.There are much bigger matters under discussion.




    Like this guy. We salute him.

    Hairdresser from Croydon fighting 'inhuman' Isis militants on frontline in Iraq


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/hairdresser-from-croydon-fighting-inhuman-isis-militants-on-frontline-in-iraq-9684755.html



    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #811 - August 23, 2014, 02:11 PM

    I am glad he used a pseudonym. I saw a nice bit on a guy who came back to Kurdistan from Sweden. There are a lot of peshmerga in the diaspora. Nice to see them rallying, I hope they get back to their countries safely, meaning, I hope they feel they are not needed anymore, that the nightmare ends.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #812 - August 23, 2014, 02:31 PM

    ISIL’s Al Baghdadi flees Iraq for Syria as U.S. steps up air strikes

    Quote
    LONDON — The commander of Islamic State of Iraq and Levant was said to have fled Iraq amid U.S. air strikes on Kurdistan.

    Officials said ISIL commander Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi left his headquarters in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul around Aug. 10. They said Al Baghdadi, a nomme de guerre, fled from Iraq to neighboring Syria as Iraq and the United States intensified air strikes on ISIL positions. “According to our intelligence sources, Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi traveled to Syria as part of a convoy of 30 Hummer vehicles after fearing being targeted by U.S. airstrikes,” a senior Kurdish official, Said Zinni, said.

    Zinni, spokesman of the Kurdistan Democratic Party, said Al Baghdadi left Mosul around Aug. 10. He said several of Al Baghdadi’s top commanders have been killed in the Kurdish offensive.

    Not sure how true is the news but that was that news paper says

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #813 - August 24, 2014, 03:14 PM

    27 maps that explain  the crisis in Iraq

    Quote
    The current Iraq crisis began in early June, when the extremist group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), which already controls parts of Syria, seized much of northern Iraq, including the major city of Mosul. The conflict has roots in Iraq's complicated history, its religious and ethnic divisions, and of course in the Iraq War that began with the 2003 US-led invasion. These 27 maps are a rough guide to today's crisis and the deeper forces behind it.


    How the Sykes-Picot agreement carved Iraq's borders  birth of Iraqi state




    Quote
    You hear a lot today about this 1916 treaty, in which the UK and French (and Russian) Empires secretly agreed to divide up the Ottoman Empire's last MidEastern regions among themselves. Crucially, the borders between the French and British "zones" later became the borders between Iraq, Syria, and Jordan. Because those later-independent states had largely arbitrary borders that forced disparate ethnic and religious groups together, and because those groups are today in conflict with one another, Sykes-Picot is often cited as a cause of warfare and violence and extremism in the Middle East. Scholars are still debating this theory, which may be too simple to be true. But the point is that the vast Arab Sunni community across the Middle East's center was divided in half by the European-imposed Syria-Iraq border, then lumped in to artificial states with large Shia communities.

    Iraq's religious demographic divide



    Quote
    Iraq's three-way demographic divide didn't cause the current crisis, but it's a huge part of it. You can see there are three main groups. The most important are Iraq's Shia Arabs (Shiiism is a major branch of Islam), who are the country's majority and live mostly in the south. In the north and west are Sunni Arabs. Baghdad is mixed Sunni and Shia. And in the far north are ethnic Kurds, who are religiously Sunni, but their ethnicity divides them from Arab Sunnis. Iraq's government is dominated by the Shia majority and has underserved Sunni Arabs; the extremist group that has taken over much of the country, ISIS, is Sunni Arab. Meanwhile, the Kurds, who suffered horrifically under Saddam Hussein, have exploited the recent crisis to grant themselves greater autonomy.


    Iraq's enormous oil reserves



    Quote
    Iraq has the fifth largest proven oil reserves of any country, after Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Canada, and Iran. Production has gone up since the fall of the Hussein regime; in February 2014, 3.6 million barrels were being pumped a day,    while in 2002 about 2 million were pumped a day. In 1991, following the Gulf War, a mere 305,000 barrels were pumped a day, gradually picking up as the country recovered from its defeat. The oil is concentrated in the Shia south and Kurdish north, with Sunni regions to the west notably lacking in oil wealth. That makes it all the more significant that the Sunni ISIS rebels have targeted the country's largest oil refinery and have suggested they plan on seizing much of the country's northern oil fields; see the map of "ISIS's 2006 plan for Iraq and Syria" below for more on that.



    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #814 - August 24, 2014, 03:28 PM

     
    27 maps that explain  the crisis in Iraq

    Invasion of Iraq by  coalition forces in , 1990 and 2003



    Quote
    While the United States was the prime contributor of troops to both the first Gulf War and the second, both were backed by international coalitions contributing troops, humanitarian aid, and other assistance. In 1991, that coalition was backed by a UN Security Council mandate and included among its ranks most of Western Europe (notably France and Germany) as well as several of Iraq's neighbors, like Syria, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia (which was actively threatened by Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, and was itself invaded by Iraq in the course of the war). As you can see in the above order of battle, French and Arab forces actively participated in the ground attack on Iraq.
    Quote
    The 2003 invasion had no such consensus backing it. The UN Security Council declined to support the mission, with France and Germany opposed, and not a single Middle Eastern country expressed support. Only four countries — the US, UK, Poland, and Australia — participated in the initial invasion, and while others assisted in various capacities, it was nonetheless mostly an American and British operation

    .



    Iraqi civilian deaths, 2003-2010



    Quote
    No one suffered more from the Iraq War than Iraqi civilians. The fluctuations in this chart show the three distinct stages of the war. The first, from 2003 to 2005, was the war between the US-led invasion force and Iraqi forces, including government forces as well as Islamist and nationalist insurgents. Civilians in this period were bystanders. In early 2006, however, Iraq's conflict became what is often described as a civil war, fought among three factions: Sunni insurgents, including Islamist extremists and former Saddam loyalists; Shia militias, some of them rogue members of state security forces; and the US-led occupation force. In this period, which lasted two awful years, civilians were often the target of the violence, with bombings and death squads seeking to ethnically cleanse Baghdad in particular. While conditions improved significantly after 2008, many fear that the current crisis could reignite the sectarian hatreds and militias of 2006 to 2007.


    Six numbers no one should ever forget about the war in Iraq


    1. At least 126,107 civilian deaths



    2. America lost 4,486 service members



    3. The war created 2 million refugees



    4. $817 billion in direct costs, and trillions more in indirect costs



    5. Iraq is no freer than Iran



    6. 0 weapons of mass destruction

    Quote
    As weapons inspector Charles Duelfer told the Senate after he and the Iraq Survey Group scoured the country for evidence of biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons programs, "It is my judgement that retained stocks do not exist. I still do not expect that militarily significant WMD stocks are hidden in Iraq." None have come to light since he said that ten years ago. You can read the ISG's full report


    So the world here with ISIS after  hundreds of thousands of people of Iraq died and trillions of AMRIKA dollars  squandered, but the actual strategic objective of the war NUCLEAR WEAPONS WERE/ARE  nonexistent,

    Sure if Iraq had NUCLEAR WEAPONS   THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.. off course much worse could have happened.,  So all that is the result of AMRIKA ARROGANT ISLAM and Middle Eastern  BRAINLESS ISLAM..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #815 - August 24, 2014, 03:51 PM

    Iraqis must rise above their differences to rout terrorists
    Quote
    In recent months, the terrorist group known within the U.S. government as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has seized significant territory inside Iraq, exploiting sectarian divisions and political mistrust that sapped the strength of Iraqi forces. ISIL seeks to rip Iraq apart in its quest to establish a caliphate. But Iraq’s communities have started to unite in pushing back.

    Since more than 13 millionIraqis cast their ballots in April despite threats from ISIL to kill anyone who voted, Iraqis have convened a new parliament, selected a speaker and president and designated a new prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, to form a new government.

    These steps are meaningful because they show that Iraqis have begun to understand that they must rise above their differences. And that, when they do, they can succeed — not only in uniting the country but in defeating ISIL.

    There is no negotiating with ISIL. We have seen its appalling murders of U.S. journalist James Foley and countless other innocent people, its cruelty and its fanaticism.

    But even if there were no ISIL, Iraq’s survival would still depend on the ability of Iraqis to set aside their differences and unite in a common effort. Iraq’s security would still depend on addressing the alienation that fuels extremist movements and convincing Iraqis that their needs can be met through the political process rather than through violence.

    In the past few weeks, President Obama has spoken with Abadi and I have spoken to each of Iraq’s incoming and outgoing leaders. We have come away encouraged that they recognize that years of political deadlock and discord must end. As Abadi wrote the other day, the “challenges we face are immense but we will overcome them by uniting. Raging storms may be ahead but we will face them together as one nation.”

    For Iraq, success will require genuine compromise from all sides and a new government in Baghdad capable of responding to the needs of all of Iraq’s communities. We cannot want that more than Iraqis do. Unless Iraq can do this, no amount of outside intervention will matter — nor will it continue indefinitely.

    That’s why government formation is so critical. As prime minister-designate, Abadi is working to put forward a new lineup of cabinet ministers and a road map that will set the agenda for Iraq’s new government. We are encouraging Iraqi leaders to complete this process as soon as possible. We are hopeful that the road map Iraq’s parliament endorses will sketch a vision for harnessing the resources of the state to benefit all communities and take the fight to ISIL.

    We are also encouraging Iraq’s neighbors to refrain from fueling sectarian divisions, which only plays into ISIL’s hands, and instead to treat this shared challenge as an opportunity to begin a new chapter in their relations with Iraq and with each other.

    Iraq’s security efforts, like its politics, must harness the energy and cooperation of all communities. This new spirit of cooperation was evident this week in northern Iraq, where Iraqi and Kurdish forces worked together to retake the Mosul dam from ISIL. Notwithstanding U.S. support, this operation could not have succeeded without cooperation between the Kurdish pesh merga and Iraqi security forces. This was the first joint operation of its kind, and we believe it is a model to build upon.

    Another approach that is emerging is a “functioning federalism” under the Iraqi constitution, which would ensure equitable revenue-sharing for all provinces and establish locally rooted security structures, such as a national guard, to protect the population in cities and towns and deny space for ISIL while protecting Iraq’s territorial integrity. The United States would be prepared to offer training and other forms of assistance under our Strategic Framework Agreement to help such a model succeed.

    It will ultimately be up to the Iraqis to define their future under their own constitution, but we are encouraged that a serious debate about that future has begun. As Iraqis continue to make progress, we are prepared to further enhance our support for Iraq’s fight against ISIL — and will call on the international community to join Canada, Australia and our European allies in doing the same.

    ISIL is far from invincible. Its ideology is rejected by most Iraqis. It establishes order not through consent but through fear. It has destroyed ancient religious sites, enslaved women and girls and brutally executed many of the very Sunnis it claims to speak for. ISIL has no legitimate cause or grievance to espouse. And as we saw at the Mosul dam, when its fighting strength is eroded, it can be routed by local forces without U.S. boots on the ground.

    This is a fight that Iraq, with help from America and the world, can and must win. We all have a stake in empowering moderates in Iraq to prevent a terrorist state from taking root in the heart of the Middle East. The threat, of course, is not confined to Iraq. Addressing it will also require continued support for our partners in Jordan, Lebanon, the Syrian opposition and others to counter ISIL and address the flow of foreign fighters to and from the battlefield.

    In recent months, the terrorist group known within the U.S. government as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has seized significant territory inside Iraq, exploiting sectarian divisions and political mistrust that sapped the strength of Iraqi forces. ISIL seeks to rip Iraq apart in its quest to establish a caliphate. But Iraq’s communities have started to unite in pushing back.

    Since more than 13 million Iraqis cast their ballots in April despite threats from ISIL to kill anyone who voted, Iraqis have convened a new parliament, selected a speaker and president and designated a new prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, to form a new government.

    These steps are meaningful because they show that Iraqis have begun to understand that they must rise above their differences. And that, when they do, they can succeed — not only in uniting the country but in defeating ISIL.  There is no negotiating with ISIL. We have seen its appalling murders of U.S. journalist James Foley and countless other innocent people, its cruelty and its fanaticism.

    But even if there were no ISIL, Iraq’s survival would still depend on the ability of Iraqis to set aside their differences and unite in a common effort. Iraq’s security would still depend on addressing the alienation that fuels extremist movements and convincing Iraqis that their needs can be met through the political process rather than through violence.

    In the past few weeks, President Obama has spoken with Abadi and I have spoken to each of Iraq’s incoming and outgoing leaders. We have come away encouraged that they recognize that years of political deadlock and discord must end. As Abadi wrote the other day, the “challenges we face are immense but we will overcome them by uniting. Raging storms may be ahead but we will face them together as one nation.”

    For Iraq, success will require genuine compromise from all sides and a new government in Baghdad capable of responding to the needs of all of Iraq’s communities. We cannot want that more than Iraqis do. Unless Iraq can do this, no amount of outside intervention will matter — nor will it continue indefinitely.

    That’s why government formation is so critical. As prime minister-designate, Abadi is working to put forward a new lineup of cabinet ministers and a road map that will set the agenda for Iraq’s new government. We are encouraging Iraqi leaders to complete this process as soon as possible. We are hopeful that the road map Iraq’s parliament endorses will sketch a vision for harnessing the resources of the state to benefit all communities and take the fight to ISIL.

    We are also encouraging Iraq’s neighbors to refrain from fueling sectarian divisions, which only plays into ISIL’s hands, and instead to treat this shared challenge as an opportunity to begin a new chapter in their relations with Iraq and with each other.

    Iraq’s security efforts, like its politics, must harness the energy and cooperation of all communities. This new spirit of cooperation was evident this week in northern Iraq, where Iraqi and Kurdish forces worked together to retake the Mosul dam from ISIL. Notwithstanding U.S. support, this operation could not have succeeded without cooperation between the Kurdish pesh merga and Iraqi security forces. This was the first joint operation of its kind, and we believe it is a model to build upon.

    Another approach that is emerging is a “functioning federalism” under the Iraqi constitution, which would ensure equitable revenue-sharing for all provinces and establish locally rooted security structures, such as a national guard, to protect the population in cities and towns and deny space for ISIL while protecting Iraq’s territorial integrity. The United States would be prepared to offer training and other forms of assistance under our Strategic Framework Agreement to help such a model succeed.

    It will ultimately be up to the Iraqis to define their future under their own constitution, but we are encouraged that a serious debate about that future has begun. As Iraqis continue to make progress, we are prepared to further enhance our support for Iraq’s fight against ISIL — and will call on the international community to join Canada, Australia and our European allies in doing the same.

    ISIL is far from invincible. Its ideology is rejected by most Iraqis. It establishes order not through consent but through fear. It has destroyed ancient religious sites, enslaved women and girls and brutally executed many of the very Sunnis it claims to speak for. ISIL has no legitimate cause or grievance to espouse. And as we saw at the Mosul dam, when its fighting strength is eroded, it can be routed by local forces without U.S. boots on the ground.

    This is a fight that Iraq, with help from America and the world, can and must win. We all have a stake in empowering moderates in Iraq to prevent a terrorist state from taking root in the heart of the Middle East. The threat, of course, is not confined to Iraq. Addressing it will also require continued support for our partners in Jordan, Lebanon, the Syrian opposition and others to counter ISIL and address the flow of foreign fighters to and from the battlefield.

    As Iraqis begin to unite in their resolve against ISIL, we must be prepared to do the same. We will continue to consult closely with Congress about our strategy in Iraq and the region when it comes to ISIL and the security of our people. This will be a long-term challenge. It is one that our partners around the world, with our support, have no choice but to take on and win — starting in Iraq.

    Well All that holy dolly booooo is written  today by VICE PRESIDENT OF AMRIKA   .. I doubt it.,  at best  he may have read it,  may have edited a bit..

    The problem is Joe Biden will go away after couple of years and AMRIKA gets some hoosh booosh and then you hear different story

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #816 - August 24, 2014, 08:50 PM

    ISIS Justifies Its War on Yazidis: We Called on Them to Convert to Islam First   Aug 21, 2014

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyQj3-jrhTA&list=UUpBvIBfZ-foo5ZbLH5O0N4g

    look at that scoundrel  hoe cool he sounds along with couple of 17 year olds around him..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-403mF0MHFk

    this s fucking wild viral brainless thoughtless  Islam....

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #817 - August 25, 2014, 09:57 AM

    As could be anticipated:

    Mosul Residents Fed Up With IS

    Quote
    ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - The killings and kidnappings of Yezidis by the Islamic State (IS/ISIS) are affecting the situation in Mosul, where the militants have become far less visible and where villagers have stepped in to terrorise the towns folk.

    There are less IS fighters in the streets, at the markets and the checkpoints, sources in Mosul report. The militants in their black outfits are hardly seen anymore.

    Meanwhile, looting has increased dramatically. IS supporters are mainly looting the homes of  policemen and officers who left for fear of revenge by the radicals, and are taking the goods out of the city. Even herds of sheep are taken from the Kurdish left side of Mosul over the Tigris bridges towards Syria.

    “Most supporters are from the villages,” said a journalist still living in Mosul, speaking by phone. “They treat the city folk badly. They are lowly educated and badly behaved. They are gangs. We suffer badly.”

    He recounted how women, and even the men accompanying them, are beaten with sticks if the woman is wearing only a hijab (head scarf) instead of the now obligatory niqab which covers most of the face.

    “A Mosul man would never do that, but it is common in the villages,” the journalist said.  He added that the looting is also mainly done by the villagers who came with to the town with the IS, or daash as it known locally.

    “Some of the Mosul people joined daash because they had no income, no money. But after they saw their mistake, they ran away.”

    Mosul residents are fed up with IS, the journalist said. “We Muslims are in a critical situation, and we cannot speak out now. Islam is the big loser of this bloody game. It is too terrible what they did to the Christians and the Yezidis. We have always been a mixed town.”

    “They are criminals,” said spokesman Ghanem al-Abed of the Sunni Resistance against former Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, that started working with IS when it took over Mosul on June 10.

    “What they are doing to Christians and Yezidis is not human. After they killed the Sunni leaders in prison, they became criminals.”

    IS has in the past weeks picked up former Baath officials that had joined the group, as well as policemen and military men who had openly repented to IS to be able to stay in the city.

    At the same time, IS fighters have been killed, said a policeman who fled the city. He knew about 20 of them being shot, possibly in connection to a ban on cigarettes imposed by the IS, which has had a major effect on the income of tradesmen.

    IS has made itself unpopular not only with that ban, but also the prohibition for girls over 12 to go to schools and changing school curriculums to Arabic, maths and Islam. Many people have no income. Many hate the way their Christian neighbors have had to leave, the policeman said.

    “There is the fear and the killings. Most daash in Mosul are villagers, and they operate in gangs. I just heard they killed a female doctor at home; probably because she was alone.”

    He said he had been told of minor acts of resistance by the people of Mosul, of elderly people swearing at them openly, women refusing to wear the niqab or people asking IS fighters when they would leave.

    “Now very few people are still cooperating with daash,” he said. “All former Baathists now are against them. Other groups stopped coordinating with them. Most of those people left.”

    According to Abed, the spokesman of the Sunni resistance, the time has come “to liberate Mosul.” Former governor Atheel Nujaifi has formed a force of 10,000 men to do so, he said. “We will start the fight to chase daash out of Mosul.”

    When told, the policemen openly wondered where the governor would have found such a number of able fighters, as none of the old colleagues he is in contact with seemed to be involved.

    But in Mosul the story is spread by people eager to be rid of IS. The journalist said he had heard rumors about a force of 15,000 men that would be led by the former police chief of Mosul.

    When asked if there will be cooperation with the Iraqi army, as is happening in Ramadi where Sunni fighters are confronting IS in the city, Abed is very clear that Mosul needs a completely Sunni force.

    “We will not work with the militia of Iran,” he said, referring to the Iraqi army, which mainly consists of Iraqi Shiites and is being assisted by the Shiite militias both from Iraq and neighbouring Iran. “Only Sunnis from Mosul will fight IS and then reinstall the security in the city.”


    I hope the Iraqi army and the Kurds are wise enough to stay out of Mosul and make alliances with the local Sunnis instead of taking the city by force. It still houses over one million people despite hundreds of thousands of people of all creeds having fled the city.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #818 - August 25, 2014, 12:37 PM

    Hundreds Killed as ISIS Captures Key Syrian Airbase Near Iraq Border  says news



    Quote
    ISIS forces captured the Tabqa airbase in northern Syria on Sunday, the last remaining military defense in the region, bolstering the Sunni militants' control on the Raqqa Province. The province's capital, Raqqa, has long served as the group's headquarters, the New York Times reports; according to the BBC, the city "is believed to hold dozens of warplanes, helicopters, tanks and artillery."

    Quote

    From the New York Times:


        The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which tracks the conflict from Britain through a network of contacts inside Syria, said ISIS' attack on Sunday was its fourth in the past week. The Syrian government had launched airstrikes on ISIS positions, but the group's fighters managed to enter the grounds of the air base on Sunday and took it over after many of the troops inside withdrew.

        More than 340 ISIS fighters have been killed since the start of the offensive on Tuesday, the Observatory said, in addition to about 170 government soldiers. If confirmed, those numbers would make the battle the deadliest yet between the jihadist movement and the Syrian government.


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #819 - August 25, 2014, 03:12 PM

    Quote
    Britons in Syria and Iraq should be presumed guilty, Boris Johnson says

    Boris Johnson said there should be a stronger response to Islamic State. Britons who travel to "war areas" should be presumed potential terrorists unless they can prove otherwise, Mayor of London Boris Johnson has said.

    Writing in his Daily Telegraph column, he called for tougher powers to deal with British extremists who leave the UK to fight in Iraq and Syria.

    He said there should be a "presumption" that Britons who go without telling UK authorities have a "terrorist purpose".

    Deputy PM Nick Clegg said changing the law would not help defeat extremists.

    And former attorney general Dominic Grieve said Mr Johnson's proposal undermined UK values.

    The Human Rights Act states that anyone charged with a criminal offence in the UK is "presumed innocent until proved guilty".

    But Mr Johnson wrote: "The law needs a swift and minor change so that there is a 'rebuttable presumption' (which shifts the burden of proof on to the defendant) that all those visiting war areas without notifying the authorities have done so for a terrorist purpose."

    Mr Johnson also said he wanted stronger monitoring of extremists and suggested the government could bring back control orders, under which ministers could sign an order placing a suspect under close supervision.

    “The first question I would ask is, what is the real necessity for this?”

    The orders were replaced in 2011 by the weaker Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures (TPims), which restrict movement, the use of computers and mobile phones, and meetings with others.

    Mr Johnson said Britons returning from Iraq and Syria would need "surveillance at the very least".

    "If we have to bring back control orders for some of the more serious risks, we should do so immediately," he said.

    People who "continue to give allegiance to a terrorist state" should have their citizenship taken away, Mr Johnson added.

    He said Britain must try to close down Islamic State (IS), warning that if nothing was done it would mean "a tide of terror will eventually lap at our own front door".

    'Profoundly hostile'
    He devoted much of his column to calling for a stronger military response against IS forces.

    While recent UK military interventions had left the nation reluctant to get involved in overseas conflicts, he said, "doing nothing is surely the worst of all".

    With the US and UK keen to avoid sending in troops, he said fighting IS would "probably need a vast and co-ordinated series of American strikes by drones and other missiles, coupled with a lot of effort from special forces".

    Mr Johnson said failing to act would be "allowing a new and hideous regime to be born".

    Isis fighters in Anbar province (file photo)
    Mr Johnson said Britons who "give allegiance" to IS should lose their British citizenship
    "The place would be a giant training ground for terrorists and wannabe jihadis. We need to try to close it down now, before it gets worse," he said.

    "What is the point of having a defence budget if we don't at least try to prevent the establishment of a terrorist 'caliphate' that is profoundly hostile to civilised values?"

    Mr Johnson has overall responsibility for the Metropolitan Police which believes that about half of the 500 British jihadists who have gone to Iraq and Syria to join IS are from London.

    'Draconian proposal'
    Commenting on Mr Johnson's proposed law change, Mr Clegg said new legislation would not remove IS, and the government should focus on working with Muslim communities in the UK.

    "I sometimes wish it was as simple as Boris Johnson implies: all we need to do is pass a law and everything will be well," he said.

    He said existing powers would be kept under review, but the UK already had considerable powers to keep itself safe.

    Mr Clegg also rejected Mr Johnson's calls for Britons fighting abroad to be stripped of their citizenship and for the reintroduction of control orders.

    Mr Grieve, who left his role as attorney general last month, told BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend that Mr Johnson's proposal for a presumption of guilt would be a major change to the law.

    "It is a draconian proposal because it would envisage getting rid of ordinary principles of common law which put the burden on the prosecution to prove its case by introducing a rebuttable presumption," the Conservative MP said.

    "The first question I would ask is, what is the real necessity for this?

    "We have successfully prosecuted a number of individuals coming back from Syria having engaged in terrorist activities or training.

    "If we were to do this we would be undermining our own values and ultimately because this is a values battle that is not likely to be helpful in persuading people not to become terrorists."

    Mr Grieve said there were "perfectly innocent reasons" for people to visit Syria, including seeing their families or taking medical aid.

    Home Secretary Theresa May has proposed changes to the law to tackle extremism and radicalisation in the UK.

    On Friday she said she was "looking again at the case for new banning orders for extremist groups that fall short of the legal threshold for terrorist proscription, as well as for new civil powers to target extremists who seek to radicalise others".

    The announcement came after the killing of US journalist James Foley by IS militants, apparently including a man with an English accent.

    Meanwhile, Downing Street has said the UK is stepping up efforts to defeat IS militants. Lt Gen Sir Simon Mayall has been appointed security envoy to the Kurdistan region of Iraq, which has been threatened by IS's recent advance.

    Kurdish forces will be supplied with non-lethal equipment such body armour and night-vision goggles.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28923689
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #820 - August 25, 2014, 06:08 PM

    ISIS Justifies Its War on Yazidis: We Called on Them to Convert to Islam First   Aug 21, 2014

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyQj3-jrhTA&list=UUpBvIBfZ-foo5ZbLH5O0N4g

    look at that scoundrel  hoe cool he sounds along with couple of 17 year olds around him..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-403mF0MHFk

    this s fucking wild viral brainless thoughtless  Islam....


    Excellent recruitment tool though. Deny mixing with the opposite sex to hormonal testosterone-fuelled young men, then play on their sexual desire by promising the aforementioned frustrated and largely sexually repressed men an unprovable sex orgy holiday that never ends, if they come and fight, kill and die for whatever cause.

    So if sleeping around and mixing with women on earth is so horrid that god hates it, then why is this 'decadent sex-crazed lifestyle' used a lure in heaven. Sounds like Heaven is a land of everything that islam is against. A bit like a divine Sodom and Gomorrah.

    Such suicide bombers and those who do terrible things for religion and aim to kill themselves in the process, are not sacrificing anything in their minds, this is just pure sexual greed on the part of the jihadists. To dignify this as 'sacrifice' is absurd.  They sure as hell wouldn't do it if they didn't think they were getting something out of it.

    This is greed masquerading as sacrifice, simple as.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #821 - August 26, 2014, 01:14 AM

    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/08/24/Islamic-authority-Extremists-no-Islamic-State-.html

    An Egyptian 'leading Islamic authority' is already trying to bury his head in the sand and is in denial that what ISIS is doing has anything to do with Islam.

    Obviously I appreciate what he is trying to do by using his respected position to discourage muslims from following the ISIS zombie hordes, but it is exactly this kind of protection of religion that well meaning moderates do that is the soil for such extreme literalism to take root and blossom.

    Promotion of Faith,(belief without evidence) is the problem, not a solution.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #822 - August 26, 2014, 01:35 AM

    Yes, I agree with you. Denying the Sunnah emulation of ISIS is a huge mistake. Any fool can read Quran or even stories of the Sahaba and see the similarities. I hate all this apologist crap. It reeks of bait and switch.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #823 - August 26, 2014, 01:37 AM

    nobody is prepared to have that discussion. Not even the most liberal Muslims will go there.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #824 - August 26, 2014, 01:49 AM

    No, you are right. They won't. I have never seen any Muslim admit it. I have seen military justification. I have seen claims that ¨those times demanded it¨. I have seen claims that ¨people did not know any better¨. I have heard denial, with Islamophobia! I have heard that fiqh was not yet established. Of course, I have been told that the unbelievers back then were despicable creatures, they deserved it! Not like people of today, who we should ¨tolerate¨. Then, of course, also there is the argument that all groups were given chances, and all were traitors, who went back on their word. Liars!
    Of course, all this is incorrectly translated. Only uber educated people can understand what the Quran really says, and it would never say anything politically incorrect. 

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #825 - August 26, 2014, 02:38 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKsrK_Y0gx4

    look at that fellow from Canada Imam Syed Soharwardy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlXSQSOB1c

    then what you are doing?   well  you are in Canada man....  i know you from those cartoon days,,  

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9ErIT2wyng

    you change colors like chameleon   my friend...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #826 - August 26, 2014, 12:08 PM

    Syria conflict: Obama approves US surveillance flights for ISIS  says news
     


    Quote
    US President Barack Obama has authorised surveillance flights over Syria in order to gain intelligence on the activities of Islamic State (IS).

    Correspondents say the move could mark the first step towards US air strikes inside Syria, where the jihadist group controls vast swathes of territory.

    The US is already carrying out strikes against IS in neighbouring Iraq.

    On Monday, the Syrian government said it would work with the international community in the fight against IS.

    Western governments have so far rejected suggestions that they collaborate with President Bashar al-Assad in an attempt to counter the growing regional threat posed by IS.

    They have repeatedly called on Mr Assad to step down since the beginning of the three-and-a-half year uprising against his rule, in which more than 191,000 people are believed to have been killed.


    Hmm American Govt changes her friends in war situations   as fast as I change my religions or my underwear

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #827 - August 26, 2014, 01:31 PM

    Jihadis need to be confronted, not only on the battle field, but also through arguments. They are much more afraid of the latter in my opinion. The only time I've seen the jihadi Bakri squirm is when he had a debate with Bobby Spencer, who I don't like, on the evidence for Islam. Debate on moral values is not even nearly as effective as a debate on contradictions, flaws and scientific errors in Islamic scripture.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #828 - August 26, 2014, 07:21 PM

    Syria conflict: Obama approves US surveillance flights for ISIS  says news
     
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Hmm American Govt changes her friends in war situations   as fast as I change my religions or my underwear


    Well, the situation seems to be 'fluid' shall I say, in that region, and shifting allegiances are probably going to be par for the course. We may well be forging unlikely alliances with groups we may have major disagreements with elsewhere on various issues (Iran/PKK/Baathists/Hezbolla etc). I suppose any government would be wise to 'amend its position' as the situation fluctuates.

    I don't think you can put total blame USA/UK etc for shifting positions based on opposition to a common threat and I am not sure that America necessarily considers all of its potential 'allies' as their 'friends', perhaps 'useful associates' may be a better definition. They can only react to rather than lead this situation with any one of those groups, basically this is one huge FusterCluck.

    Just goes to show as with post WWII Russia, "My enemy's enemy is NOT NECESSARILY my friend."


    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #829 - August 26, 2014, 07:30 PM

    Jihadis need to be confronted, not only on the battle field, but also through arguments. They are much more afraid of the latter in my opinion. The only time I've seen the jihadi Bakri squirm is when he had a debate with Bobby Spencer, who I don't like, on the evidence for Islam. Debate on moral values is not even nearly as effective as a debate on contradictions, flaws and scientific errors in Islamic scripture.


    I think you are right, but I don't see al-Baghdadi or any of his cohorts in a debate with Lawrence Krauss.

    Any such debate with have to take place at grass roots level, with the 'Muslim man in the street'. It may take a generation or 2.  You need to win populations, not necessarily Hitchslap some high-ranking cleric somewhere in public debate. He wont care a toss whether he is shifting the burden of proof or using some fallacy. Don't forget 'Faith' is immune to reason.

    We need to discourage adults on a worldwide scale from passing this messed up thinking onto their kids. Once we get to the stage where currently Islamic countries are filled with the likes of Maajid Nawaz and Usama Hasan, and the worst thing you get in Pakistan/Afghanistan/Iraq is a few dozen idiots holding signs saying 'Allah Hates Fags', then we will be well on the way.

    Doing it is going to be a lot easier than saying it, but let us remember, if it does happen, the revolution started right here on CEMB! Afro

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #830 - August 27, 2014, 02:11 PM

    so as a guy who's never been Muslim, I really need to ask.

    is there really such a thing as moderate Muslims or are they simply not-that-religious Muslims?

    And do 'moderate' Muslims secretly/discreetly support jihad or do they simply not care what is happening?

    many thanks!
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #831 - August 27, 2014, 02:43 PM

     There's a whole bunch of Muslims out there. There's even openly gay Muslims who argue that Mohammad would have backed them up and defended their homosexuality if he were alive today, so I think it's safe to say that the answer to questions is: "Some are, some aren't/some do, some don't."
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #832 - August 27, 2014, 02:45 PM

    so as a guy who's never been Muslim, I really need to ask.

    is there really such a thing as moderate Muslims or are they simply not-that-religious Muslims?

    And do 'moderate' Muslims secretly/discreetly support jihad or do they simply not care what is happening?

    many thanks!

    So ., Mr. Nergal is asking a simple questions

    What is Moderate Islam? Who is a moderate Muslim?  .. give some  examples of such folks..


    and  and .. I DEMAND ANSWERS FROM THESE CEMB INFIDELS ., from every..  every  .. INFIDEL of CEMB   finmad  underlined..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #833 - August 27, 2014, 03:22 PM

    gee sorry to asking out of curiosity :\
    I'm gonna go cry in the corner.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #834 - August 27, 2014, 07:30 PM

    Dunno about an exact definition, I am not an ex-Muslim but can I offer, from my entirely unqualified, observer's point of view, a starting point for a definition of moderate muslim/christian/anything and you can add or take away anything if I am in error.

    A 'moderate' (in thought as well as action) is someone who doesn't impose their arbitrary rules on unwilling people or  think non-members of their special club should be insulted, attacked, killed, locked up, or taxed to the hilt just for not being a member, or deserve to be tortured forever after they are dead, or punished for criticism of said club. Or tries to defend atrocities done by their god or believers in their holy book, as virtuous acts.

    For me, anyone, even the average non-violent nice-guy theist in the street, who thinks that I deserve to be tortured forever, is not a moderate, nor a violent extremist either, but does not abide by MY definition of moderate.

    How is that for a starter? Add or take away as you see fit. I am willing to be set straight.

    I realise that would put many we would normally consider as mild and gentle outside of my definition, but hey, I have high standards. Sue me.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #835 - August 27, 2014, 08:03 PM

    so as a guy who's never been Muslim, I really need to ask.

    is there really such a thing as moderate Muslims or are they simply not-that-religious Muslims?

    And do 'moderate' Muslims secretly/discreetly support jihad or do they simply not care what is happening?

    many thanks!


    Most Muslims don't support ISIS or like groups, nor do they support killing Christians. Many Muslims here (and in other countries) have marched in solidarity with Christians against ISIS. 

    There are Muslims who are religious (pray, fast, talk about Allah all day) but have zero interest in jihad or politics. I guess they'd be considered moderates. There's consensus that jihad/violence should only ever be in self-defence. The terrorists are definitely in the fringe, even in conservative Muslim circles. 
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #836 - August 27, 2014, 09:02 PM

    To me it seems like by far most of the Muslims I encounter here in Denmark are more spiritual than dogmatic and for them Islam *DOES* seem to mean peace and they have a lot of rosy tainted idiosyncrasies about Islamic history and particular prophet Muhammad.

    Also the ones I know seem to pick and chose the things they like. As e.g. I know 4 Women (all immigrants or refugees) who live together with Danish non-converted men. They have all received some flak for it at times particular on social media but they tell people to STFU.

    But they are all grown up and live outside the ghettos with the social control of being "a good Muslim".

    There are people here I would call "moderate Muslims". Like a few imams who was born and grew up here. But you don't have to poke much at them before they get into trouble regarding chopping off limbs, stoning et cetera for some of them. To me it seems like the Muslims themselves ignore such things are mentioned in the scripture.

    For the UK I would call Mehdi Hasan a "moderate" - calling unbelievers "cattle" is totally Quran and he has since told that was a silly thing to say - and Maajid Nawaz a "reformist".

    Regarding Jihad I almost solely see it mentioned as a defensive measure. And more often about the "greater" (inner) and "lesser" (outer) Jihad.

    Of course some people interpret otherwise also here as the more than 100 people who have gone to Syria and Iraq from here shows...

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #837 - August 27, 2014, 09:49 PM

    thanks for telling me guys, if i have anymore questions I'm definitely going to you guys first Smiley Afro
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #838 - August 27, 2014, 10:59 PM

    For the UK I would call Mehdi Hasan a "moderate"

    A toad more like.

    (Apologies to toads.)
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #839 - August 27, 2014, 11:07 PM

    I know. But then I recalled Mo Ansar.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
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