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Theme Changer

 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

 (Read 229883 times)
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  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #30 - June 13, 2014, 02:59 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EetamKKhVUU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz_0RkvyCm4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEAyxlnkUL0

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #31 - June 13, 2014, 03:35 PM

    I hope this group does not gain momentum amongst the sunni population. While these guys are crazy, they are not stupid. I've known lots of the jihadi sorts over the years and these guys view themselves as soldiers with a just cause, as revolting as that may be. Now that it looks like they are moving away from random indiscriminate killing and more towards trying to make a country, I fear they might get more support from salafi jihadists in the area, especially from within Saudi Arabia.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #32 - June 13, 2014, 03:38 PM

    Quote
    salafi jihadists

     

    I thought you said salafis were seperate from jihadis ?

    quote from your linguistic miracles blog. The maajid nawaz radical article. 

    Quote
    Maajid rightfully makes the important distinction between 3 competing forms of Islamic expression at that time: Islamism, Salafism, and Jihadism.....The Salafist brother’s next quip was the thing that cemented it for me. He said, “Because you are forgetting what the Messenger spent his entire life calling to: Tawheed! Do you think Allah will give us the Khilaafah when we have Muslims out here making open shirk (dedicating acts of worship to other than Allah.)!?* Allah PROMISES you the khilaafah if you oppose shirk, but you deviants are putting the cart before the horse.”


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #33 - June 13, 2014, 03:40 PM

    I already know a few people who support them. I don't know if that would change if they saw some of the gruesome videos I've watched out of them...Likely not, I guess when it's a holy war the ends tend to justify the means.

    Last night there was a news story about a video clip coming out from ISIS where the militants speaking in the video appear to be speaking with a Saudi accent.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #34 - June 13, 2014, 03:52 PM



    I thought you said salafis were seperate from jihadis ?

    quote from your linguistic miracles blog. The maajid nawaz radical article. 


    Yes. This is why I used the term salafi jihadist. It can almost be hyphenated.

    There are salafis who view the call to tawheed as paramount and central, and who view jihad as a means when the situation dictates. That is essentially the type of salafi I was, with the understanding that the conditions for Jihad to be met would likely never happen unless the Muslim community I was in fell under attack.

    Then you have jihadists who are all about killing people and fighting a "Jihad" for the sake of Jihad, until Allah gives them victory or they die in battle. This is what I would consider Bin Laden and many of the folks that we see carrying out atrocities in the west. These guys don't tend to care much about following the sunnah in terms of rulings. They are more concerned with destroying what exists of society so that they can usher in a khilafah.

    Then you have salafi-jihadists who essentially combine those to things. They consider the sunah as undertsood by the salaf to be paramount and often criticize regimes like the Saudi regime for moving away from the sunnah and not fully implementing walaa and baraa when it comes to non-Muslims. Even when these guys aren't fighting a jihad, they still want to and still view it as their best method for implementing a salafi interpretation. They fully believe in the legitimacy of violence under an amir. This amir does not have to be the head of state. It can be a righteous leader that upholds the sharia and calls to jihad, if people give him Bay'ah.

    These ISIS guys fall into this category and they have given bay'ah to this Baghdadi guy. Now that he is seen as a legitimate amir, I fear more people will flock to him, especially from Saudi Arabia.

    I'm greatly curious to hear what the Saudi scholars are saying right now. The ones I used to sit with are likely saying that if King Abdullah does not sanction this Jihad as the ruler of the Muslim community in Saudi Arabia, then no Saudi Muslims should go to fight.

    More radical scholars might be throwing their weight behind this Baghdadi guy, so long as his aqeedah is considered salafi. If that is the case, then I fear an influx of violence. Especially because salafi-jihadists from Jordan, Kuwait, Syria, etc might be tempted to join. This is exactly what these guys have been waiting for all along.

    It's a complicated and ugly situation either way.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #35 - June 13, 2014, 04:08 PM

    Quote
    I'm greatly curious to hear what the Saudi scholars are saying right now. The ones I used to sit with are likely saying that if King Abdullah does not sanction this Jihad as the ruler of the Muslim community in Saudi Arabia, then no Saudi Muslims should go to fight.

     

    Stuff likes this makes me believe that King Abdullah doesn't even believe in Islam and is using it to justify his control over KSA.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #36 - June 13, 2014, 04:27 PM

    I've certainly thought that. Whether he believes it or not, though, he still overtly uses it to control his subjects. They don't hide that. "Obedience to the one is authority" is promoted as a religious obligation there.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #37 - June 13, 2014, 05:34 PM

    I'm not wrong in thinking that this is extraordinarly ominous am I? Regarding the possibility of large scale sunni - shia violence in this arena?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #38 - June 13, 2014, 05:36 PM

    This has the potential to really, really suck. Many practicing sunnis, even ones who hate terrorism, might be attracted by the idea of a salafi-jihadist state forming. After all, this IS what these guys claim to want.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #39 - June 13, 2014, 05:41 PM

    I fear of an upcoming genocide or ethnic cleansing of Sunni lands because lack of Sunni opposition to ISIS and thus they have committed treason toward the Shia-run Iraqi state? lipsrsealed

    That is if the well-armed Shia militias decide to cleanse outside of their own turfs in Baghdad and south. Which they might want to do since Baghdad is threatened so wanting a cleansed buffer zone is unfortunately natural.

    It is horrifying.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #40 - June 13, 2014, 06:09 PM

    add in the Kurds, Christians, Assyrians into the mix and its quite ominous.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #41 - June 13, 2014, 06:20 PM

    I guess we're officially leaving them to deal with it on their own.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #42 - June 13, 2014, 06:27 PM

    Well the Kurds are hopefully able to stand their ground and they have allegedly taken over Kirkuk now which they can use as a bargain tool - to be allowed to annex the city if they help the Iraqi government when they try to retake Mosul and eventually drive ISIS out of the Nineveh province if that happens to be at all feasible.

    For the Assyrians:

    Quote
    The government of Mosul, Iraq’s second largest city, fell overnight to the jihadist Islamic State of Iraq and Levant, also called the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS). Mosul’s panic-stricken Christians, along with many others, are now fleeing en masse to the rural Nineveh Plain, according to the Vatican publication Fides. The border crossings into Kurdistan, too, are jammed with the cars of the estimated 150,000 desperate escapees.

    The population, particularly its Christian community, has much to fear. The ruthlessness of ISIS, an offshoot of al-Qaeda, has been legendary. Its beheadings, crucifixions, and other atrocities against Christians and everyone else who fails to conform to its vision of a caliphate have been on full display earlier this year, in Syria.

    As Corner readers will remember, in February, it was the militants of this rebel group that, in the northern Syrian state of Raqqa, compelled Christian leaders to sign a 7th-century dhimmi contract. The document sets forth specific terms denying the Christians the basic civil rights of equality and religious freedom and committing them to pay protection money in exchange for their lives and the ability to keep their Christian identity.


    Many Nineveh residents fled to Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq on Tuesday.

    Since 2003, Iraq’s Christian community has suffered intense religious persecution on top of the effects of the conflict and, as a result, it’s shrunk by well over 50 percent. Mosul, the site of ancient Nineveh of the Assyrians, who converted to Christianity in the first century, has become the home of many Christians who remained. Considered by Christians the place of last resort inside Iraq, Mosul and the surrounding Nineveh Plain has been home to many Christian refugees driven out of Baghdad and Basra. Mosul has the only university, the best hospitals, and the largest markets serving the Christian towns and villages of the Nineveh Plain. The plain, itself, is now at grave risk of direct jihadi attacks and the possibility of being cut off from an essential city.

    Once upon a time, some of the Mosul Christians might have fled to Syria, but they now have few options. More will give up on the region altogether and join their relatives and former neighbors in Michigan, California, Sweden, and elsewhere in the West. The fall of Mosul is a serious blow for the Iraqi state, and the implications for Iraq’s Christian community are devastating.

    ISIS now controls the area surrounding Mosul’s Catholic Chaldean cathedral. Fides reports that Chaldean bishop Amel Shamon Nona and the other bishops of Mosul launched an appeal yesterday to keep churches and mosques there open to pray for peace. Their perseverance in the face of such peril is heartbreaking. ISIS will not listen, of course. They are not men of peace and they kill those who are, as they did Father Paolo Dall’Oglio in Raqqa last year. These bishops and their flocks should load up their cars and head for the Kurdish border without delay.

    President Maliki is vowing that Iraq’s army will regain control, but this may take time. ISIS has controlled parts of Ramadi, the capital of Sunni Muslim Anbar province, and much of Fallujah for the past six months. When the army does eventually succeed in reversing jihadi control in Mosul, it may be too late for the Christians. Once Middle Eastern Christians flee to the West, they don’t return.

    In other words, the religious cleansing of Christians from Iraq is entering the end game.

    This is a profound development for the Christian church, of course, which has had a two-thousand-year-old presence there. But it will have long-term national-security implications for the West. American political leaders have so far failed to distinguish the religious cleansing from its surrounding context of terror and conflict. They overlook the fact that religious pluralism and diversity are among today’s casualties. As one Chaldean bishop lamented, “This is very sad and very dangerous for the church, for Iraq and even for Muslim people, because it means the end of an old experience of living together.


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #43 - June 13, 2014, 09:00 PM

    I see a lot of "left-wing" commentators saying that the situation is the result of the US/UK/Western imperialist interests.

    Personally I think they have no idea what the Middle East with the tribal politics and the Sunni/Shia-divide is all about - they just see "victims" of "western imperialism" so it is the white man's burden to sort it out because Muslims and Arabs are unable to do that themselves as they are victims of said imperialism.

    For you with a background in the area - what do you think?

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #44 - June 13, 2014, 09:04 PM

    I think we westerners must be gods. I see no other explanation for how nothing happens except by our will.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #45 - June 13, 2014, 09:12 PM

    I know Iraq had its significant problems before we got there, but, at least from my perspective, we went in and kicked them out of the frying pan and into the fire. I don't know how things would have turned out otherwise, but I do wish we would at least provide some support to the people that we propped up as the new military/police/what have you.

    I can only imagine what those people must feel like now, especially with videos all over the internet of ISIS breaking into officers/government workers' houses at night and killing them and their children, as was the gist of most of that hour video I watched. We were tripping over our own feet to get involved when it had nothing to do with us, but now, when the situation is so much more dire than before, it's entirely their problem. Maybe it's naive of me, but I can't feel good about it.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #46 - June 13, 2014, 09:17 PM

    We should convert everyone in the Middle East to Kurdism banghead Sunni? No? Shia? No? Alawi? No? Christian? No? Ezidi? No? Sufi? No? Alevi? No? Kurd? ....YES???!!! No problem. Go on. And welcome.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #47 - June 13, 2014, 11:39 PM

    I fear of an upcoming genocide or ethnic cleansing of Sunni lands because lack of Sunni opposition to ISIS and thus they have committed treason toward the Shia-run Iraqi state? lipsrsealed

    That is if the well-armed Shia militias decide to cleanse outside of their own turfs in Baghdad and south. Which they might want to do since Baghdad is threatened so wanting a cleansed buffer zone is unfortunately natural.

    It is horrifying.


    You don't have to fear this. It has been happening already. In the reverse in Iran, in the situation you describe in Pakistan, With Saddam in Iraq against the minorities. It is already underway in more than one area. It has been horrifying for quite some time.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #48 - June 14, 2014, 12:45 AM

    I know... And in the long term it might be the best.... Christians moving out of the Middle East... Carving out Sunni and Shia states....

    For Iran the problem is that they are persecuting the Arab minority - and they are both Sunni AND Shia. Oh and then the Bahais and the Parsi Sunnis as well...

    What about just making a secular country for once? :S

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #49 - June 14, 2014, 06:48 AM

    So just saw a teeet from them about the decapitation of a police officer, calling his head a football #worldcup.

    They are sick, it sickens me more that I lived with a person who supports them wholeheartedly.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #50 - June 14, 2014, 12:11 PM

    Its hard to believe that the Iraqi army could be so pathetic.  There will be no political will in either the US or the UK to send their own soldiers in to risk their lives when Iraq apparently can't fight for their own country.  Ironic really, because there's a far better case for invading Iraq now than there was back when they did invade.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #51 - June 14, 2014, 01:00 PM

    Its hard to believe that the Iraqi army could be so pathetic. ...........

    Shia population of Iraq although it is more than 75 to 80% of folks in the country(The 2009 IMF population Iraq was 31,234,000) since its formation after 2nd world war were NEVER IN IRAQ ARMY.,

    Through out Saddam Hussein regime he put Shias of Iraq under the Dog leash with guns pointing at their heads.   Even the present  elected Prime minster was living in exile in Iran for half of his life.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1xauPHm3Ts

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz6fU3S4AWI

    Just giving guns and tanks to subdued general population of a country will never make such population as soldiers to fight until death..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #52 - June 14, 2014, 01:03 PM

    The US spent about 10 years training and equipping the Iraqi army.  And after all that, 30,000 Iraqi soldiers turn and run at the sight of 800 insurgents.   Roll Eyes

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #53 - June 14, 2014, 01:09 PM

    I think it might be because of multiple reasons. Corruption, no faith in government (because of corruption) - no true leadership... But also because the Iraqi people share no common national identity. They don't know what they should be fighting for, they are too divided with no sense of loyalty to anything but their own tribe and sometimes not even that.

    I remember watching a video with an American soldier going crazy, cursing and yelling at a unit of Iraqi soldiers "why should I and other Americans come here and die, when you won't even defend your own fucking country". That 5 minutes or so video stayed with me, because it just showed that something like 30 000 Iraqi soldiers running away from less than a thousand crazy insurgents wasn't that unthinkable...

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #54 - June 14, 2014, 01:13 PM

    The US spent about 10 years training and equipping the Iraqi army.  And after all that, 30,000 Iraqi soldiers turn and run at the sight of 800 insurgents.   Roll Eyes

    America never understood Islam, never trained any   soldiers in Muslim lands.
     
    AMRIKA just gave money and their throw away military hardware  to American contractors to train Iraq Army after fall of Saddam .. Off course the money for all that also came from selling middle east Oil along with some American tax payers pocket..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #55 - June 14, 2014, 01:45 PM

    I think it might be because of multiple reasons. Corruption, no faith in government (because of corruption) - no true leadership... But also because the Iraqi people share no common national identity. They don't know what they should be fighting for, they are too divided with no sense of loyalty to anything but their own tribe and sometimes not even that.

    I remember watching a video with an American soldier going crazy, cursing and yelling at a unit of Iraqi soldiers "why should I and other Americans come here and die, when you won't even defend your own fucking country". That 5 minutes or so video stayed with me, because it just showed that something like 30 000 Iraqi soldiers running away from less than a thousand crazy insurgents wasn't that unthinkable...


    I agree, and it seems like the current government have made all those problems worse by pursuing sectarian policies.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #56 - June 14, 2014, 02:13 PM

    Struggle for Iraq and Struggle in Iraq  In maps







    And also news says Iraq conflict: UK offers £3m  PEANUTS  as emergency aid with this picture..



    Thousands of Iraqis have fled their homes.,  The UK will provide an initial £3m PEANUTS  in emergency aid to help civilians fleeing the Islamist insurgency in Iraq, the government has said

    well click the links and read  everything..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #57 - June 14, 2014, 02:30 PM

    english media and arabic media are telling COMPLETELY different stories about this topic.

    Since the Kurds now have kirkuk, and the Kurdish leader has safely appeared in Kirkuk, considering that "ISIS" aims to kill politicians, word is that it was a strategic take over by Kurdish rebels and ISIS, helping each other for their own benefits.
    English media also doesn't broadcast Iraqi Sunni, Shias and Christian leaders uniting against Isis...Engish media has been implying that Mosul is supporting isis o.o

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #58 - June 14, 2014, 02:31 PM

    Some of the links I'm reading are so foreign compared to Arabic news..

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #59 - June 14, 2014, 02:44 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gPEPIK87Ag

    hail AMRIKA... fight for Democracy in middle east..   off course that is from 2012...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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