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Theme Changer

 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

 (Read 229573 times)
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  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #390 - July 18, 2014, 09:29 PM

    There are certain psychopathic traits in them I think.


    I am not so sure, I think religion has more to do with it. I do not accept that broadly speaking Arab ethnic groups are more naturally pre-disposed to psychopathic tendencies en masse than the rest of the world is. That would be an insult to those groups. I think these people would be nice, normal people if it wasn't for a belief in heaven and the idea that the SUREST way to get there is to kill unbelievers or die trying.

     I don't think they would be doing this if it wasn't glorified in their 'holy' books in some way. That's why belief in heaven/hell, can be dangerous. People will do ANYTHING if they think their eternal soul is at stake.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #391 - July 18, 2014, 09:37 PM

    I wonder how many (or if any) of these guys could be rehabilitated. I know that there's a lot of despicable criminals in our societies, so it shouldn't come as a surprise, but, when it's apparent in front of you with all the propaganda that comes with, it just adds another dimension.

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #392 - July 18, 2014, 09:48 PM

    Anyone indoctrinated into a system which promotes death and the dehumanization of others is bound to produce psychopaths. 
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #393 - July 18, 2014, 09:51 PM

    That's a good question. Some have I guess, been pulled back from the brink. Others are just too far gone. Not sure that the propaganda is the root, maybe the idea itself is the root, and the propaganda is there to reinforce that already held belief.

    Basically I don't think the apparent 'psychopathic actions' are a result of nurture rather than nature.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #394 - July 18, 2014, 09:57 PM

    I am not so sure, I think religion has more to do with it. I do not accept that broadly speaking Arab ethnic groups are more naturally pre-disposed to psychopathic tendencies en masse than the rest of the world is. That would be an insult to those groups. I think these people would be nice, normal people if it wasn't for a belief in heaven and the idea that the SUREST way to get there is to kill unbelievers or die trying.

     I don't think they would be doing this if it wasn't glorified in their 'holy' books in some way. That's why belief in heaven/hell, can be dangerous. People will do ANYTHING if they think their eternal soul is at stake.


    Yes but the similar proportion of psychopaths in a religious group will really find encouragement from their religious texts if they themselves have psychopathic tendencies (the texts). It will validate those tendencies; those non-psychopathic people will be the moderates and those that are potentially Muslim by name only due to fear.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #395 - July 18, 2014, 10:22 PM

    Are you saying that psychopaths tend to gravitate to religions that promote such acts? Hmmm maybe. I think psychopathic beheaders these days, in most societies are, in the general global population too few and far between to account for this behaviour becoming so prevalent again and so concentrated into one narrow ideology.

    Its gotta be what's written in THAT BLOODY BOOK that has to bear the brunt of the blame!! I don't accept that such a significant proportion of these guys were born bad, they were made bad.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #396 - July 18, 2014, 10:32 PM

    Nature and nurture is becoming evermore blurred with the land of epigenetics.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #397 - July 18, 2014, 11:23 PM

    That's a good question. Some have I guess, been pulled back from the brink. Others are just too far gone. Not sure that the propaganda is the root, maybe the idea itself is the root, and the propaganda is there to reinforce that already held belief.

    Basically I don't think the apparent 'psychopathic actions' are a result of nurture rather than nature.


    Look at this from another angle. Military personal are trained to not see enemy soldiers during combat as humans as it would cause many to hesitate. Reflex actions are drilled into a soldier to overcome our empathy and ability to identify with others. So these training programs nurture a part of our nature, instincts, backed up by preconditioned actions of training. Also this training overcomes the flight part of our instinct of fight or flight. The only time one should take flight is due to orders. Charge of the Light Brigade, Siege of Bastogne, Battle of the Little Bighorn, etc. These are examples of people commited to action against their own well-being. Two of which resulted in high casualties and defeat, one which resulted in victory due to the delay. So we train people to become similar to psychopaths which happen to follow orders during certain times. The heads in a bag happens when such training is at such a level that people are not able to overcome the training outside of combat.

    So with ISIS we have a form of military training as pointed out above back by a religious ideology in which those of the out-group are dehumanized to the extent that non-combatants are in the same category as combatants
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #398 - July 19, 2014, 12:44 AM

    Also as happens in group dwelling primates when another group attacks or is deemed to have attacked the mental state becomes that of viewing the others of the same species as dangerous animals. There is a reason behind the Jews are Pigs thing, it is all animal behaviour.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #399 - July 19, 2014, 12:59 AM

    Look at this from another angle. Military personal are trained to not see enemy soldiers during combat as humans as it would cause many to hesitate. Reflex actions are drilled into a soldier to overcome our empathy and ability to identify with others. So these training programs nurture a part of our nature, instincts, backed up by preconditioned actions of training. Also this training overcomes the flight part of our instinct of fight or flight. The only time one should take flight is due to orders. Charge of the Light Brigade, Siege of Bastogne, Battle of the Little Bighorn, etc. These are examples of people commited to action against their own well-being. Two of which resulted in high casualties and defeat, one which resulted in victory due to the delay. So we train people to become similar to psychopaths which happen to follow orders during certain times. The heads in a bag happens when such training is at such a level that people are not able to overcome the training outside of combat.

    So with ISIS we have a form of military training as pointed out above back by a religious ideology in which those of the out-group are dehumanized to the extent that non-combatants are in the same category as combatants


    Good observation. This is why many NCO's are advocating for better screening methods upon entry into the military, so that those who cannot distinguish from and maintain the boundaries between non-combatants and combatants, right and wrong, get barred from service as unfit and never undergo this sort of brainwashing/training. Since the standards in the US were lowered for entry, there have been more war crimes, suicides, and PTSD.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #400 - July 19, 2014, 01:48 AM

    Good observation. This is why many NCO's are advocating for better screening methods upon entry into the military, so that those who cannot distinguish from and maintain the boundaries between non-combatants and combatants, right and wrong, get barred from service as unfit and never undergo this sort of brainwashing/training. Since the standards in the US were lowered for entry, there have been more war crimes, suicides, and PTSD.


    When did they start lowering the standards?

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #401 - July 19, 2014, 06:10 PM

    It was the switch to the volunteer system over the draft. Recruitment is based on a quote of required manpower. With limited applicants the standard has been dropping for decades for the sake of the quota. This also created a situation in which current service members were required to do multiple tours of duty as replacements were in low numbers.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #402 - July 19, 2014, 07:48 PM

    Car bombs kill 26' in Baghdad  says news


    Five blasts hit the Iraqi capital of Baghdad on Saturday

    Quote
    Five bombs went off across Baghdad on Saturday, with three blasts reportedly taking place in less than 10 minutes. The mostly Shia neighbourhood of Abu Dashir was hit, as were the districts of Baiyaa, Jihad and Kadhimiya. Iraq is experiencing an upsurge in instability. The government is battling Islamist militants, who have seized cities in the country's north-west.

    Meanwhile, Iraqi Christians are fleeing the northern city of Mosul after militants from the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isis) threatened to kill them unless they converted to Islam or paid a "protection tax". The deadliest blast on Saturday hit Abu Dashir when a car bomb rammed into a police checkpoint, killing at least seven, officials said.






    well what is News.. That is not new to Shia Islam.,  In Islam Shias are getting killed right from start from that guy Caliph Ali.. his sons.. including the Grand father of those kids  Hassan and Hussain ... all the way to today...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #403 - July 20, 2014, 02:24 AM

    Ok now, I've been trying to debate these salafi jihadis(and maybe some salafi that are not jihadi) on twitter as I mentioned earlier. Im not really unfriendly, and after a usual ''You dirty murtad!'' comment from them I try to get an argument I feel delivers KO, well so far its: untag me, block, scholars....=(
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #404 - July 20, 2014, 11:26 AM

    News says  Caliph Islamic State overwhelms Iraqi troops in Tikrit, storms Camp Speicher

    Quote
    IRBIL, Iraq — Islamic State gunmen overran a former U.S. military base early Friday and killed or captured hundreds of Iraqi government troops who had been trying to retake Saddam Hussein’s hometown of Tikrit, the worst military reversal Iraqi troops have suffered since the Islamist forces captured almost half the country last month. The defeat brought to an end a three-week campaign by the government in Baghdad to recapture Tikrit, which fell to the Islamic State on June 11. Military spokesmen earlier this week had confidently announced a final push to recapture the city.

    There was no comment from the Iraqi government. On Wednesday, the military had acknowledged that its forces had made what it called a “tactical retreat” to Awja, a town about 10 miles south of Tikrit, after the push into the city failed........

    Yes “tactical retreat” all the way to Basrah. That stupid Shia guy being 3rd Prime Minister of Iraq  since May 2006 DID NOTHING TO THE COUNTRY.. Now he will runaway again to Iran mullahs  leaving the Shia population tothe mercy of ISIS Islamic heroes..

    I hope that fool knows Baghdad is just 2hr drive from   Tikrit,....

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #405 - July 20, 2014, 03:45 PM

    What a tragedy, the most ancient christian community and other minorities facing extinction in the area.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/isis-islamic-state-issue-ultimatum-to-iraq-christians

    http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/19/iraq-isis-abducting-killing-expelling-minorities
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #406 - July 20, 2014, 03:53 PM

    ISIS burns 1,800-year-old church in Mosul says Al-arabiya.net news  today..




    Quote
    Militants from the radical jihadist group the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria have set fire to a 1,800-year-old church in Iraq’s second largest city of Mosul, a photo released Saturday shows. The burning of the church is the latest in a series of destruction of Christian property in Mosul, which was taken by the Islamist rebels last month, along with other swathes of Iraqi territory. A video posted on YouTube July 9 shows a tomb being destroyed with a sledgehammer which government officials said was “almost certainly” the tomb of Biblical prophet Jonah.

    Earlier, Mosul’s Christians fled the city en masse before a Saturday deadline issued by the al-Qaeda-inspired Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) for them to either convert to Islam, pay tax, leave or be killed.

    Al Arabiya correspondent in Iraq Majid Hamid said the deadline set by the jihadist group was 12 p.m. Iraqi time (10 a.m. GMT). Hamid reported that many Christians fled the city on Friday. It is not clear if any remained after the deadline.  Patriarch Louis Sako told AFP on Friday: “Christian families are on their way to Dohuk and Arbil,” in the neighboring autonomous region of Kurdistan. “For the first time in the history of Iraq, Mosul is now empty of Christians,” he said.

    Witnesses said messages telling Christians to leave the city by Saturday were blared through loudspeakers from the city’s mosques Friday....


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #407 - July 20, 2014, 05:00 PM

    Damn these people and their destruction of history!
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #408 - July 22, 2014, 05:25 AM

    What TRULY Amazes me is the utter indifference of the UN and the West in general....

    They are blatantly destroying the historical structures my people spent ages BUILDING and they just destroy them like "fuck it".....

    rant time: All the fucking Middle-Eastern Christians do is HELP Muslims yet all we ever get is fucking massacres and oppression.

    CHRISTIANS make the fucking money and economy that even helps the country thrive but no, fuck them, we don't need them because Allah loves Islam and Islam only! Here Muhammad have a pig! piggy
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #409 - July 22, 2014, 11:23 AM

    Australian suicide bomber blows himself up at Shia shrine in Baghdad

    http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2014/07/australian_islamic_s.php#

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #410 - July 22, 2014, 10:12 PM

    Its day three of trying to engage jihadis in debate...three things happened
    1. Threatened
    2. Blocked it seems
    3. Ignored

    Yesterday I was able to have a very small discussion, but I think they are worried that I may affect their beliefs.

    Also considering how many of them seem to be in Iraq, maybe Im being stupid in talking to these assholes.

    Some other things I've found out is they're trying to refute things that put IS in bad light.


    That claim has been refuted
    https://conflictantiquities.wordpress.com/2014/07/20/syria-iraq-mosul-burned-syriac-catholic-cathedral-propaganda/

    Its claimed by supporters of IS that a military base was near the church and that a vehicle near the church was burning. Here's a short video of a burnt vehicle near the church

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcfpFBwsAYs&feature=youtu.be

    Oldest church in the world is in Syria and is from 233-256. Oldest church in Iraq is from around 500 according to this source
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_church_buildings

    Also the f-ckers in IS are giving Christians three alternatives convert,jizyah or death...
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #411 - July 23, 2014, 12:13 AM

    You're talking to jihadis?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #412 - July 23, 2014, 12:50 AM

    ^Just over the Internet...on twitter..and nothing much yet there either. As I said earlier in this thread
    Quote
    I'd really like to debate or see a debate with these fundies over evidence for/against Islam. However my worry is assholes at someintelligence service might mix up ip number with the fundies...and U know the rest...although I use Tor to conceal my ip.


    Some of these jihadis seems to be in Iraq others are just fanboys. Then you have probably have feds lurking.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #413 - July 23, 2014, 12:58 AM

    When did they start lowering the standards?


    Close to a decade ago, maybe a bit more than that. I am not sure of the year. Within the last twenty and more than eight.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #414 - July 23, 2014, 05:08 PM

    Yeah, I don't know if that can be reversed though, with the manpower shortage they're always facing. Maybe not fight so many wars in the first place, or get more international consensus and help...

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #415 - July 23, 2014, 11:39 PM

    They should be able to do it now. Soldiers on deployment are getting their pink slips, and I mean they are regular active duty. We are reducing the military. Good time to overhaul the enlisting requirements.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #416 - July 24, 2014, 01:05 PM

    Iraqi Christians in Mosul told by Isis to convert to Islam or be executed

    Quote
    Iraqi Christians who were forced to flee the northern city of Mosul under threat of forced conversion or execution by jihadists have spoken of their terror as churches were turned into mosques and their homes and property confiscated.

    The expulsion of one of the world's oldest Christian communities provoked condemnation and anguish from figures as diverse as the pope and Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, who lambasted the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isis) for its "criminality and terrorism".

    Last weekend Isis gave the city's Christians a stark choice: convert to Islam, pay a religious tax, or face death. "They said there is no place for Christians in the Islamic state," one distraught refugee said from the safety of Bashiqa, 16 miles from Mosul. "Either you become Muslim or you leave." Mosul's last 1,500 Christian families were reportedly robbed at Isis checkpoints as they fled.

    Hundreds have found shelter in areas between Mosul and Irbil – the capital of the Kurdistan regional government – that are controlled by Kurdish Peshmerga fighters – but they face an uncertain future.

    "If Isis stays, there is no way the Christians can return," Father Boutrous Moshi told the Guardian from Qara Qoosh, a Christian area southeast of Mosul. "It is up to God whether we return or not. They have not burnt the churches but they did set fire to the pictures, the books and broke the windows."

    Monks at the 4th century Mar Behnam monastery, a major pilgrimage site run by the Syriac Catholic Church, were allowed to take only the clothes they were wearing.

    Sarab Hazem, from the Zehoor neighbourhood of Mosul, said that initially there were no attacks on Christians when Isis took the city in a lightning offensive in June, though Isis fighters did capture and take away police, security agents and soldiers. "No one knows what becomes of them," he said. Then, statues of Christ and the Virgin Mary were destroyed. "They are savages," Hazem said. "This is oppression for no reason. I believe it is no longer possible for Christians to live in Iraq."

    Bashar Nasih Behnam, 52, who fled with his two young children last Friday, told a similar story: "They (Isis) threatened us and said you can't stay in Mosul and you have to leave," he said. "They said we have conditions: either you comply with them or you leave. So we left."

    Deprived by Isis of Iraqi government rations (a legacy of the sanctions imposed in the Saddam Hussein era) they were too frightened to go out to their church, where the jihadis took down a statue of the Virgin Mary and put their black flag in its place. A monastery was turned into a mosque. Two nuns who were looking after three orphans were kidnapped but later released. The Arabic letter "N" for Nasrani (Christians) was daubed on the doors of houses – to show that they had been seized as the property of the Islamic state declared by Isis.

    "There is not a single Christian family left in Mosul, Behnam said. "The last one was a disabled Christian woman. She stayed because she could not get out. They came to her and said you have to get out and if you don't we will cut off your head with a sword. That was the last family. There is not a single family that left and was not robbed. They took our money, gold, even the earrings from their [women's] ears. They took everything, even mobile phones.

    "We don't know if we are going to go back. Until now we have no idea if there can be a return. We don't know what our destiny is. They have even taken our houses in Mosul."

    Bassem Fadel Zarghit, a shopkeeper from Mosul's Al-Rifa'i neighbourhood, said the city's Christians had felt doomed despite initial reassurance from Isis. "There is no one left," he said. "It's not just the Christians. It's also the Shia that are being targeted."

    Mosul, the largest city in northern Iraq, was once among the country's most mixed. Waves of attacks on Christians since the 2003 US-led invasion to topple Saddam eroded its once sizeable Christian population, mainly from the Assyrian and Chaldean denominations.

    The decree issued by Isis in Mosul mirrored one that its fighters issued in the north-eastern Syrian city of Raqqa in February, demanding that Christians pay the "jizya" levy in gold and curb displays of their faith in return for protection.

    Human Rights Watch has condemned Isis for its vicious campaign against minorities in the Mosul area.


    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/iraqi-christians-mosul-isis-convert-islam-or-be-executed?CMP=twt_gu


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #417 - July 24, 2014, 01:07 PM

    Quote
    Isis 'orders female genital mutilation' for women in Mosul
    Breaking news Continue reading the main story
    Struggle for Iraq
    'Jihadistan'
    Shia take on Isis
    Key Sunni players
    Shrines destroyed
    The UN says militant Islamist group Isis has ordered all women and girls in Mosul, northern Iraq, to undergo female genital mutilation (FGM).

    UN official Jacqueline Badcock said the fatwa, or religious edict, applied to females between the ages of 11 and 46.

    She said the unprecedented decree issued by the Islamists in control of the city was of grave concern.

    Iraq is facing a radical Isis-led Sunni insurgency, with cities in the north-west under militant control.

    The ritual cutting of girls' genitals is practised by some African, Middle Eastern and Asian communities in the belief it prepares them for adulthood or marriage.

    The UN General Assembly approved a resolution in December 2012 calling for all member states to ban the practice.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28466434
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #418 - July 24, 2014, 08:27 PM

    That fgm thing seems to be more fake stuff - like the "rock worshipper" thing a while back.
  • ISIS take Mosul
     Reply #419 - July 24, 2014, 09:36 PM

    Wow still no U.S./U.N. action on this issue...
    The only explanation is that Obama truly is Muslim underneith or something is going on..
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