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 Topic: Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion

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  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #90 - June 07, 2014, 10:49 AM
    Quote from: Descent on June 07, 2014, 04:37 AM

    With regards to my original post, and on the idea of affirmative action, I think I would be downright offended if I as a woman, received a scholarship for the sole reason of being a woman, rather than my abilities and achievements.


    Yet at the same time as a woman, I am downright offended that my gender means I am less likely to get a specific scholarship. 

    Damned either way right? 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #91 - June 07, 2014, 11:43 AM
    I doubt it, especially in developed countries,  but regardless, I don't personally like the idea of race, or gendered based scholarships or awards.

    ...But if you're right and the evidence suggests that women are being discriminated against (in terms of receiving scholarships and awards) despite having similar merits and achievements, then it's definitely something academia needs to deal with.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #92 - June 07, 2014, 12:15 PM
    Quote
    but regardless, I don't personally like the idea of race, or gendered based scholarships or awards.


    Yet this is the status quo now, only white is privileged as are men.  However this status quo is considered to be race and gender free already, and so people huff and puff at the idea of affirmative action, because it is blatant about seeking to do, what is subtly done already.

    Quote

    ...But if you're right and the evidence suggests that women are being discriminated against (in terms of receiving scholarships and awards) despite having similar merits and achievements, then it's definitely something academia needs to deal with.



    Yes, the evidence does suggest that.  However perhaps I am misreading the way you begin your reply, the whole doubting it, in developed countries.  Do you mean to suggest you doubt this happens in developed countries?  :/

    In the UK alone, men are more likely to gain research funding than women, and as their ages increase, this favouring of male research increases, so that post 50 years old, women barely stand a chance.

    Affirmative action there wouldn't be saying oh we will take women who might not be as worthy as their male counterparts in their research proposals just for the sake of numbers, even if that appears to be the message behind those sort of quotas.  All it does is ensure, that by hook or crook, women are given an equal chance.  Or that whiteness is no longer privileged and masked as part of some imaginary merit system. 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #93 - June 07, 2014, 02:08 PM
    A university should only admit the best and brightest students available. Any other policy is irrational. All I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't look at gender or race, but rather merit. Little is accomplished if you're going to prevent the able from becoming more able.

    I'm not saying affirmative action leads to unqualified people taking the positions, but because of its nature of not promoting merit, it leads to a less rigorous standard.

    And I don't deny that many qualified woman can have a hard time receiving research grants as you pointed out. I fully support combating that issue. However, I don't accept fighting discrimination with discrimination, which affirmative action is.

    Edit: Also, I just to want to see the source that claims men are more likely to receive research funds. It has gotten me interested.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #94 - June 07, 2014, 03:14 PM
    Quote
    All I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't look at gender or race, but rather merit

    I completely agree with you. Sadly, it's not the world we live in. An option may be to only have the merit available, not the race and gender. I think they do that in Sweden or Denmark actually.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #95 - June 07, 2014, 03:26 PM
    ^Exactly what I was thinking. Only have grades, work experience and other relevant material available so there's no room for discrimination. I personally think that's a much better approach than affirmative action.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #96 - June 07, 2014, 03:27 PM
    @Descent. I don't have time to go too much into discussion, but it's obvious you have a somewhat naive approach to the matter. I would HIGHLY recommend the book "Space Invaders" by Puwar. It's a fairly thin book, but very helpful and informative
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #97 - June 07, 2014, 03:29 PM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on June 07, 2014, 03:26 PM
    ^Exactly what I was thinking. Only have grades, work experience and other relevant material available so there's no room for discrimination. I personally think that's a much better approach than affirmative action.

    If it's a college/uni, why exactly is the race and sex relevant anyway? In fact, I struggle to think of places it would be relevant. Actors for racist gay porn?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #98 - June 07, 2014, 03:33 PM
    The only Space Invaders I know is the classic game. It is an awesome game.

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on June 07, 2014, 03:29 PM
    If it's a college/uni, why exactly is the race and sex relevant anyway? In fact, I struggle to think of places it would be relevant. Actors for racist gay porn?

    I've been to university campuses, talked to several professors, both in North America and India. Maybe it's just the Physics department, but no professor even mentioned sex or race. We talked about Physics and science, nothing more.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #99 - June 07, 2014, 03:48 PM
    Again Descent, I highly recommend the book by Puwar. Sometimes it's not about outright discrimination, it takes form in way more subtle forms that we sometimes aren't even aware of.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #100 - June 07, 2014, 03:55 PM
    Maybe. But again, I'm not denying there is any discrimination in academia, only that the way it should be fought is not through more discrimination.

    I'll check it out after my exams.

    ...It's $30 Undecided
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #101 - June 07, 2014, 04:33 PM
    So you disagree with Berbs?

    Quote from: BerberElla on June 07, 2014, 12:15 PM
    Affirmative action there wouldn't be saying oh we will take women who might not be as worthy as their male counterparts in their research proposals just for the sake of numbers, even if that appears to be the message behind those sort of quotas.  All it does is ensure, that by hook or crook, women are given an equal chance.  Or that whiteness is no longer privileged and masked as part of some imaginary merit system. 

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #102 - June 07, 2014, 05:03 PM
    Affirmative action is discrimination by its very definition, which I don't approve of. I do agree with her on many things, such as the occasional discrimination faced by women in academia.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #103 - June 07, 2014, 05:25 PM
    Doesnt university also discriminate against family too, if you come from a wealthy, successful family you stand more of a chance of being admitted, or two people for example with the same A* grades, the rich student will get the place over the poor student.. I'm going off topic..     hmm i wonder what is true intelligence, is it someone who can think logically, absorb lots of data and solve problems with a creative imagination or someone with great emotional intelligence, understanding and wisdom.. Probably all those combined.. Just generalising but men do appear (i said appear) to have greater intelligence because they compute and store info more practically than women, but thats not inteligence, i was thinking of the scenario when you ask a man and woman car directions, guys will tell you every name of every road from memory and every traffic light expected to pass, whereas a woman will say, turn left at the rose bush, then take a right at the yellow curtains after the man walking his dog on thursdays lol wacko i'm joking around but i'm a bit like that..  :(  you can do tests on the net to discover if you think more like a man or woman, i turned out to be pure woman, what ever that means lol.. I must find the link.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #104 - June 07, 2014, 05:40 PM
    You can get discriminated against for your post code.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #105 - June 07, 2014, 05:46 PM
    Suki

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080220104244.htm

    Quote
    There are several human characteristics considered to be genetically predetermined and evolutionarily innate, such as immune system strength, physical adaptations and even sex differences. Psychologists determine significant sex differences in episodic memory, a type of long-term memory based on personal experiences, favoring women. Specific results indicated that women excelled in verbal episodic memory tasks, such as remembering words, objects, pictures or everyday events, and men outperformed women in remembering symbolic, non-linguistic information, known as visuospatial processing. For example, the results indicate a man would be more likely to remember his way out of the woods.


    Just a quick Google search. I don't have the link to the actual publication, nor do I know if these studies have been reproduced, though I have heard of similar results.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #106 - June 07, 2014, 06:23 PM
    Quote from: Descent on June 07, 2014, 05:03 PM
    Affirmative action is discrimination by its very definition, which I don't approve of. I do agree with her on many things, such as the occasional discrimination faced by women in academia.


    It's not "occasional".


    "Katherine Milkman at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, along with colleagues Modupe Akinolaof Columbia University in New York and Dolly Chugh of New York University, sent fake e-mails to 6,548 professors at 259 U.S. institutions, pretending to be students wanting to discuss research opportunities before applying to a doctoral program. The messages were identical, bar their fictional authors, whose names were picked for being recognizable by gender and ethnicity—“Steven Smith” representing a white male, for example, and “Latoya Brown” for a black female.

    White men were more likely than women and minorities to receive a reply in every discipline except the fine arts, where the bias was reversed (see “Biased teachings” above). Business showed the greatest disparity, with 87 percent of white males receiving a response compared to just 62 percent of female and minority students. In the sciences, faculty in engineering and computer sciences, life sciences and natural, physical sciences and mathematics all showed significant biases against minorities and women."
    From: Scientific American: Sex and Race Discrimination in Academia Starts Even Before Grad School

    NPR interview on this study: http://www.npr.org/2014/04/22/305814367/evidence-of-racial-gender-biases-found-in-faculty-mentoring


    ebook: Tenure Denied: Cases of Sex Discrimination in Academia

    Will academia ever graduate from sexism?

    Examining Systemic Sexism in Business and Academia

    Unfortunately, academic sexism is alive and well
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #107 - June 07, 2014, 06:46 PM
    ^Very well then, I stand corrected. My usage of the word "occasional" was not entirely true to the situation. 
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #108 - June 07, 2014, 06:46 PM
    @Descent: it's not about proving discrimination, it's discussing in what ways non-normative bodies are percieved when they enter spaces they are not "originally" part of. Using Puwars theoretical approach, allat's post and statistics will make much more sense.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #109 - June 07, 2014, 07:16 PM
    This thread is evidence that I am utterly clueless on anything not related to Physics. Where would I be without you knowledgeable CEMB folks?

    I should read more before I comment.

    I will read that book CF. I should get me an e-Reader. Books are way too expensive these days.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #110 - June 07, 2014, 07:51 PM
    Don't go for a kindle Descent, they are great... until they stop working. ( There are enough reported cases to draw a conclusion from)
    And Amazon customer support is terrible unless you have a strong case & hound them constantly.
    I'm going to build a library of used books , I still love my kindle though.

    Also, with kindle (the most popular e-reader), you are essentially "renting" the AZW file from amazon, even if you make an outright purchase.
    This is because Amazon reserve the right to take any e-book of the online library at any time which means that your whole library could be removed overnight (hypothetically).
    Amazon will not tell you this, but an easy fix is to download all of your .AZW or .AZW3 files to your hard-drive which is quite intuitive anyways.

    Summary: enjoy your kindle while it lasts.


    This is of course based on the assumption that you buy a kindle, which I would still recommend - just go for the entry version which is the cheapest. Kindle has a large (the largest out of all of the e-readers I think) range of free e-books available.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #111 - June 07, 2014, 08:04 PM
    Quote from: Descent on June 07, 2014, 07:16 PM
    This thread is evidence that I am utterly clueless on anything not related to Physics. Where would I be without you knowledgeable CEMB folks?

    I should read more before I comment.

    I will read that book CF. I should get me an e-Reader. Books are way too expensive these days.


    Used books can actually work out cheaper than certain e-book titles but an e-reader is the king of convenience.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Women are Deficient in Mind and Religion
     Reply #112 - June 12, 2014, 05:26 AM
    This is why I left Islam.

    I initially discarded the Hadith literature. Then I was like screw it. Too much cognitive dissonance.

    Oh and my grandmother and mother individually are 1000000x smarter than Muhammad could ever dream to be.

    Plus, Khadija was also awesome. She kept Mo in line. Much respect to her. Imagine if she never died, Mo might have not gone haywire.
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