Why Allah is unlike any other deity

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Reply #240 - September 10, 2014, 07:59 AM

Dear Bogart,

Carpentaro cannot answer your question, as he relies only on blind faith to prove his point.

You may, however, be interested in my post (203) on page 7. It is certainly more accurate and better researched than any of Carpentaro's submissions.

Kind Regards,
Stephen.
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Reply #241 - September 10, 2014, 08:58 AM

For The Information and Attention of Carpentaro.

I accuse you of all of the following:

1) Your introduction to this site was entirely and deliberately misleading, and was fully intended to disguise your true purpose.

2) You have insulted the intelligence of other contributors, and hijacked a thread in order to further your cause.

3) You have sought to intimidate people by the use of angry and aggressive rants, and have stepped over the bounds of civilised debate.

4) You have calculated (correctly) that posting a thread of your own would not gain you the audience you so clearly desire, and obviously do not have the courage to start a thread under your own name for fear that it would sink without trace.

5) You are a blog troll.

Kind Regards,
Stephen.
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Reply #242 - September 10, 2014, 09:44 AM

Stephen accuses Carpentaro
Quote from: Stephen on September 10, 2014, 08:58 AM
For The Information and Attention of Carpentaro.

I accuse you of all of the following:

1) Your introduction to this site was entirely and deliberately misleading, and was fully intended to disguise your true purpose.

2) You have insulted the intelligence of other contributors, and hijacked a thread in order to further your cause.

3) You have sought to intimidate people by the use of angry and aggressive rants, and have stepped over the bounds of civilised debate.

4) You have calculated (correctly) that posting a thread of your own would not gain you the audience you so clearly desire, and obviously do not have the courage to start a thread under your own name for fear that it would sink without trace.

5) You are a blog troll.

Kind Regards,
Stephen.

well Stephen.,you are accusing him ..he is accusing me and I am accusing you.. everyone is accusing lua and and that Cave dwelling osmanthus accusing .....whole folder whole board every one....

But there is nothing wrong in that as long as this accused responds back and answers the accuser. What is important from you is this point "and hijacked a thread in order to further your cause." . And that is a fact. Whatever Carpentaro's harvesting cause & goal may be but that is a fact. So you should also suggest to moderators what to do with that hijacking a wonderful Young Atheist Ex-Muslim Abu Murtad's folder.. Yes indeed Abu Murtad's opening post was stellar but now we along with Carpentaro sent this folder down the CARPENTER'S Drain..

well moderators could use that scissor at this post http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=26473.msg779897#msg779897 and help Carpentaro to start with a CARPENTER'S thread... and move all the posts into that new folder..

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Reply #243 - September 10, 2014, 09:48 AM

Ohh yeez, you have a way with words; long and rambling ways of saying things like in this case 'Shunt all this stuff to a separate thread'.
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Reply #244 - September 10, 2014, 09:50 AM

I'll do these in numerical order;
1. Your introduction to this site was entirely and deliberately misleading, and was fully intended to disguise your true purpose.
I introduced my self as a Christian on my intro [anyway, maybe not this thread], and my true purpose as stated was if I recall correctly to act as a resource for any wanting information.
2. You have insulted the intelligence of other contributors, and hijacked a thread in order to further your cause.
I've tried to be very careful to answer questions that were asked. My first post on this thread was directly related to the thread origin.
3. You have sought to intimidate people by the use of angry and aggressive rants, and have stepped over the bounds of civilised debate.
Angry and aggressive? Outside of a small misunderstanding in my second or third post [when I was actually referring to the content of a previous post's quote, not the poster] I've been careful to not use any derogatory word. Show me in a quote. Rants, I've tried to keep my statements short and in reference to questions or statements directed to me. Perhaps you are confusing rant with curt.
4. You have calculated (correctly) that posting a thread of your own would not gain you the audience you so clearly desire, and obviously do not have the courage to start a thread under your own name for fear that it would sink without trace.
I was trying to contribute to an existing thread, as you'll note that my original post in this thread was on point. I was not wanting to start up something else as I was trying to fit in. When the subject of Christianity came up, I tried to answer. I did not direct the discussion in the direction that it went, as soon as I mentioned I was a Christian, hold on, bumpy ride.
5. Blog troll
I admit, that I looked for ex-muslim sites, but only to provide information and answer questions as stated in my intro at least. I never misrepresented my self as anything than what was stated.
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Reply #245 - September 10, 2014, 09:54 AM

Quote from: carpentaro on September 09, 2014, 11:26 PM
My point is that not everything is provable.

Quote from: carpentaro on September 09, 2014, 11:28 PM
That science does not provide ALL the answers.

If the best you can come up with is an argument from hand-wringing, Señor Typo, you really have come to the wrong site.

Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
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Reply #246 - September 10, 2014, 09:56 AM

Quote from: carpentaro on September 10, 2014, 09:50 AM
I'll do these in numerical order;
1. Your introduction to this site was entirely and deliberately misleading, and was fully intended to disguise your true purpose.
I introduced my self as a Christian on my intro [anyway, maybe not this thread], and my true purpose as stated was if I recall correctly to act as a resource for any wanting information. ***********

2. You have insulted the intelligence of other contributors, and hijacked a thread in order to further your cause.
I've tried to be very careful to answer questions that were asked. My first post on this thread was directly related to the thread origin.
3. You have sought to intimidate people by the use of angry and aggressive rants, and have stepped over the bounds of civilised debate.
Angry and aggressive? Outside of a small misunderstanding in my second or third post [when I was actually referring to the content of a previous post's quote, not the poster] I've been careful to not use any derogatory word. Show me in a quote. Rants, I've tried to keep my statements short and in reference to questions or statements directed to me. Perhaps you are confusing rant with curt.
4. You have calculated (correctly) that posting a thread of your own would not gain you the audience you so clearly desire, and obviously do not have the courage to start a thread under your own name for fear that it would sink without trace.
I was trying to contribute to an existing thread, as you'll note that my original post in this thread was on point. I was not wanting to start up something else as I was trying to fit in. When the subject of Christianity came up, I tried to answer. I did not direct the discussion in the direction that it went, as soon as I mentioned I was a Christian, hold on, bumpy ride.
5. Blog troll

I admit, that I looked for ex-muslim sites, but only to provide information and answer questions as stated in my intro at least. I never misrepresented my self as anything than what was stated.

don't get upset., it is all good., what you said in every post of yours is wonderful.

so., TO ACT AS A RESOURCE FOR ANYONE ANY EX-MUSLIM WANTING INFORMATION TO JOIN THE HARVEST" please start a new thread with a heading such as ..

"Information for Ex-Muslims to join My Christian Faith" .. Then you can put all the information in to it carpentaro .. whole bible OT & NT you can put it in., Trust me no one will stop you..

with best wishes
yeezevee

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #247 - September 10, 2014, 10:07 AM

Quote from: Lilyesque on September 10, 2014, 09:48 AM
Ohh yeez, you have a way with words; long and rambling ways of saying things like in this case 'Shunt all this stuff to a separate thread'.

well I am upset Lilyesque .. some one called me AN IDIOT in this thread., So I don't know what to do .. the result is "long and rambling" .. lol..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #248 - September 10, 2014, 10:25 AM

Dear Yeezevee,

I have no problem with decent civilised debate, and love to read comments from all contributors.

We both know what this guy is up to, and it isn't anything to do with exploring issues surrounding our humanity.

Carpentaro isn't interested in anyone's views but his own, and that has been crystal clear from day one. His calculated attempts to mislead this community are insulting and fundamentally dishonest.

I accept, and apologise for, the part I have played in dragging this thread way off topic.

It is my fervent hope that Carpentaro will post a thread under his own name, giving people the opportunity to ignore it if they wish to do so.

Kind Regards,
Stephen.
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Reply #249 - September 10, 2014, 11:31 AM

I think you are taking this a bit too seriously.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Reply #250 - September 10, 2014, 12:19 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on September 10, 2014, 11:31 AM
I think you are taking this a bit too seriously.

Well some posts I too take seriously., See this one from Troubled and very confused (Read 1374 times) that was written by 50slover on August 08, 2011, .. That was 3 years back.. and he wrote only 3 posts., but I see him often in CEMB two of his posts really trouble me ..and I take them seriously..

So I guess it is OK to take some posts seriously.. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST with "WTF" lol..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #251 - September 10, 2014, 12:22 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on September 10, 2014, 12:19 PM
Well some posts I too take seriously., See this one from Troubled and very confused (Read 1374 times) that was written by 50slover on August 08, 2011, .. That was 3 years back.. and he wrote only 3 posts., but I see him often in CEMB two of his posts really trouble me ..and I take them seriously..

So I guess it is OK to take some posts seriously.. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST with "WTF" lol..

WTF

أشهد أن لا إله
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Reply #252 - September 10, 2014, 12:23 PM

Yeah, Stephen, stick around a bit and you'll see tons of carpentaros, and even more topics derailed. Nothing new under the sun.
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Reply #253 - September 10, 2014, 12:24 PM

Quote
Quote from: xtremestr on September 10, 2014, 12:22 PM
WTF

Quote from: lua on September 10, 2014, 12:23 PM
Yeah, Stephen, stick around a bit and you'll see tons of carpentaros, and even more topics derailed. Nothing new under the sun.

Damn you guys..... but please don't say... STFU...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #254 - September 10, 2014, 12:30 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on September 10, 2014, 12:24 PM

Damn you guys..... but please don't say... STFU...

STFU

No but seriously; I see no point trying to argue Carpenter. He is someone who is so obsessed with Christianity that he seems to be taking on the role of a modern day Jesus Christ. I was hoping for some insight into the Christian faith, as I am relatively ignorant of it, specially in comparison to Islam. As Lua said, yet another religious fanatic hoping to earn mega bonus heaven points by talking people into his faith; he feels sorry that our souls will be wasted because we had a bad experience with a false religion.

أشهد أن لا إله
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Reply #255 - September 10, 2014, 12:38 PM

Quote from: xtremestr on September 10, 2014, 12:30 PM
STFU No but seriously; I see no point trying to argue Carpenter. He is someone who is so obsessed with Christianity that he seems to be taking on the role of a modern day Jesus Christ. I was hoping for some insight into the Christian faith, as I am relatively ignorant of it, specially in comparison to Islam. As Lua said, yet another religious fanatic hoping to earn mega bonus heaven points by talking people into his faith; he feels sorry that our souls will be wasted because we had a bad experience with a false religion.

well I am an optimistic guy xtremestr ., So I think what CEMB folks have written as a response to carpentaro will make him think TWICE about his Christianity and his Christian methods.,

no one can escape or forget lua punches ..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #256 - September 10, 2014, 12:57 PM

Quote from: xtremestr on September 10, 2014, 12:30 PM
he feels sorry that our souls will be wasted because we had a bad experience with a false religion.

I used to try not to be too hard on these preachy/dawagandist types, thinking that their motives at least were good and altruistic, but I'm pretty sure most of them don't really care about you. They just want people to agree with them to confirm that they are right. The more they get on their side - the better and more secure they feel in their beliefs.

It's all about them - not you.
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Reply #257 - September 10, 2014, 03:44 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on September 10, 2014, 12:24 PM

Damn you guys..... but please don't say... STFU...

To you, I would never, Yeez!

Quote from: yeezevee on September 10, 2014, 12:38 PM
no one can escape or forget lua punches ..

Wait, am I really that mean?
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Reply #258 - September 10, 2014, 06:00 PM

You're not mean, that's why they are effective. Basically sucker punches.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #259 - September 10, 2014, 07:16 PM

Quote from: lua on September 10, 2014, 03:44 PM
Wait, am I really that mean?

nah you don't mean to be mean but some one steps on the wrong side of you, then you don't mind unleashing big posts ..big dogs.. lol..
Quote from: asbie on September 10, 2014, 06:00 PM
You're not mean, that's why they are effective. Basically sucker punches.

yap.. often other person doesn't even realize it is a sucker punch ...

So let us go back to Abu Murtad's OP "Why Allah is unlike any other deity" and What is so different between Allah of Islam and allah/god/gods of other religion? remember., the word "allah" was not new to Arab pagans and was there in Arabian peninsula before the birth of Islam..

Quote
1). There's something that most if not all of us [ex-muslims] have in common. We were all once scared of Allah.

I went trough a stage that made me wish I was dead. I was so frightened of Allah's wrath that I spent hours on the floor wishing I was dead. Wanting to jump off my balcony.

You most certainly will never hear a Christan say this about Jesus, so why is it so common with Allah?

The difference between Islam and Christianity is that Christians believe that God is Omini-belovent whereas Muslims believe that Allah has a limit on mercy. In fact I have a feeling that most Muslims think that Allah is mean, that Allah is scary.

Islam fester fear. It encourages it. It wants you to fear Allah. Even after debunking Islam and pointing out all it's flaws to myself I still had a festering fear. A disgusting fear that had been indoctrinated into me from childhood. A fear that hid in all edges of my heart.

Allah is unlike any other God. Allah is a sadist. Allah is unfair and Islam blatantly points this out. Allah is a disgusting character and this is what makes him so effective. This is the reason we never hear of people leaving Islam.

The authors of the Quran used horrific and disturbing imagery to scare people into believing. Here is just one example of what I'm talking about:

Reading that verse shows us just how scary Allah is! How sadistic Allah is! What kind of sick deranged psychopath could talk like that? Does this sound like the creator of the Universe talking or a sick 7th Century Beduion with schizophrenia.

The author's of the Quran don't need evidence. All they need is fear. This is what makes Islam so effective. The fear. Even if Allah does exist (which he doesn't), does he even deserve our worship? Does this sound like the Most Merciful being in the Universe? This sounds like someone who's setting us up to fail, someone that just can't wait to punish us!It's verses like these that make Muslims cry and tremble with fear. It's verses like this that make Islam such an effective virus. It's verses like these that make Islam so dangerous.

The author realized that using fear tactics is way easier than actually proving divinity. Islam is a barbaric religion, created by Muhammad (a savage barbarian) which he used to take over Arabia.

I often say there was NO Muhammad in Islam and almost all of the Quran is exaggerated versions from Jewish/Christian/Arabian Pagan sources with the exception of silly verses that deal with women/marriage/ sex/other silly personal issues..

Now lua & asbie., you two guys correct me if my assumptions on Islam are wrong.....

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #260 - September 10, 2014, 08:20 PM

A sucker punch sounds extra mean!

I couldn't say, yeezevee. No Mohammed is an interesting idea, though.
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Reply #261 - September 10, 2014, 09:17 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on September 10, 2014, 12:38 PM
well I am an optimistic guy xtremestr ., So I think what CEMB folks have written as a response to carpentaro will make him think TWICE about his Christianity and his Christian methods.,

no one can escape or forget lua punches ..

As much as I admire and respect lua's punches, and the power of well made points in general, I don't think it ever works.IMO, the person has to be willing to question the religion himself in order to leave it.

Quote from: Abu Ali on September 10, 2014, 12:57 PM
I used to try not to be too hard on these preachy/dawagandist types, thinking that their motives at least were good and altruistic, but I'm pretty sure most of them don't really care about you. They just want people to agree with them to confirm that they are right. The more they get on their side - the better and more secure they feel in their beliefs.

It's all about them - not you.

I know the temptation of bonus heaven points and self reaffirmation, but I try to believe that they really do think that they are doing us any good by nagging over and over and spouting nonsense for days on end. Sadly, when it's all said and done, there is an incredibly small portion of theists that actually care for the atheists(or theists out of their belief) in a manner of wanting to save them for eternal torment, and those are more likely to try and research their religion rather than whatever carpenter's doing; you are probably right about him.

Quote from: yeezevee on September 10, 2014, 07:16 PM
I often say there was NO Muhammad in Islam and almost all of the Quran is exaggerated versions from Jewish/Christian/Arabian Pagan sources with the exception of silly verses that deal with women/marriage/ sex/other silly personal issues..

Now lua & asbie., you two guys correct me if my assumptions on Islam are wrong.....

Not lua or asbie, but I disagree with you. I do think that Mohamed lived around 14 centuries ago, but I do not believe that the Qur'an are his words, neither do I believe that most of the sahih hadiths are actually his spoken word. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Mohamed was a good person, I terribly doubt that. However, I do believe that if the Qur'an and hadiths were copied exactly they would make even less sense. It seems completely illogical that Mohamed would try to come up with the 'perfect' book only for it to be written x(?) years AFTER his death. There are many inconveniences that accompany Mohamed's character that make him much more believable than Jesus Christ or the such.

أشهد أن لا إله
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Reply #262 - September 10, 2014, 09:39 PM

It is man's innate sense that the appeal was made to, and is my hope that that will see you to the Bottom of the glass".
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass, God is waiting for you.”

http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=99&Itemid=43

Short, sweet, end, carpentaro
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Reply #263 - September 10, 2014, 09:48 PM

So you have nothing then. Ok.

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Reply #264 - September 10, 2014, 10:41 PM

Quote from: carpentaro on September 10, 2014, 09:39 PM
It is man's innate sense that the appeal was made to, and is my hope that that will see you to the Bottom of the glass".
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass, God is waiting for you.”

http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=99&Itemid=43

Short, sweet, end, carpentaro

I'm trying to find some simple comparison to make about your "experiment," but it was so silly that mine is going to be silly, too.

This is basically what you did, carpentaro, if we were to agree that you actually were doing an experiment: You came here, talking about what drinks you like. You said you're really into some bullshit herbal smoothie. We say, "Cool, whatever. Do your thing. We don't like it, though, it's not to our taste."

You said, "Now, wait just a minute! What if I told you that this is packed full of vital nutrients, proven to be so good for you that it cures disease, could bring a man back from the dead, that it heals leprosy and blindness and lameness, and that nutritionists are calling it a miracle!"

I, being a nutritionist who had never heard of any such claims about your gross herbal smoothie, expressed my disbelief and asked for you to show me where you read that. You give me a few urls where the smoothie vendors say, "We're serious, bro, this stuff is great," and then a few more urls that are broken. Meanwhile, the rest of the medical community has published extraordinarily detailed and peer-reviewed reports, complete with evidence and methodology and statistics, that demonstrate that your smoothie actually has no nutritional value, makes your hair fall out, and is just packed with so much sugar that it gives you a huge buzz and makes you totally loopy.

Then, you do the grand reveal, and cry, "Ah-ha! This was all an experiment to show that, when I said there was nutritional value, you fancy atheists would ask for proof of my claims! Take that, science!" And then you patted yourself on the back for an experiment well conducted, and then you said, "Hey, by the way, visit my website to get the recipe of my herbal smoothie."

So about that science course I keep bringing up? They'll actually teach you how to do an experiment next time that actually has a goal and actually supports your hypothesis. I cannot recommend it enough for you. Go take one, and come back. I'll even let you experiment on me again.
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Reply #265 - September 10, 2014, 10:42 PM

You know, I don't think that the God of Islam is different than that of any other religion. It may well be that different denominations have evolved differently, and suspect (know) that this is mainly to do with the hierarchy of the church.

Though sermons have changed considerably over the years, there are still Christian Ministers who preach fire and brimstone. Some Christian religious groups are still led by tyrannical and absolutist "elders", and exercise very strict control over their adherents.

Because of a family member who recently died, I have recently conducted an investigation into the Jehovah's Witnesses. What I discovered was that only eight people, based in New Jersey, held ultimate power over the lives of around six million people.

If a JW (Jehovah's Witness) leaves the congregation, he or she is officially "shunned" by the remainder. Anyone who does not take part in this official "shunning" , even the person's family, are themselves shunned by the rest of the congregation. "Shunning" actually involves physically turning their back on an apostate, while the "elder" (they don't call them priests) tells the whole congregation that the offending person is dead to them.

If the apostate is married to another JW, the organisation has published a handy little booklet on how that person can avoid unnecessary conversation with the apostate.

During this man's illness and subsequent death, I came across a number of his fellow JW's. They were overbearing oafs for the most part, and their behaviour and attitudes were often inappropriate. It became necessary for me to alert them to the dire prognostications which would befall them should they continue to offend the family by their constant and unwelcome interference.

Later on, at the funeral, I made very sure that these people didn't get near to the younger members of the family, issuing a non too subtle warning about the consequences of any such attempt.

These JW's live in constant fear that the most trivial mistake will render them unsuitable for life in paradise. They have to keep a diary account of all the doors they have knocked at, and all the people they have spoken to. The elder of their congregation examines these diaries on a weekly basis, and those who have not done enough are threatened with dis-fellowship and shunning. Members can advance through the ranks by converting people to their cult, with those who are unsuccessful being left behind.

JW literature is peppered with bile, fear and hatred. They believe that they are the chosen ones, and that everyone else on Earth is a "Servant of Satan." They even state (and I promise you that this is in their publications) that they would "kill apostates, if the law allowed."

So, you see, it is not only Islam which is bent out of shape.

Kind Regards,
Stephen.
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Reply #266 - September 10, 2014, 11:10 PM

Most of my professional career was dedicated to investigation. Just like science, investigations have to be conducted methodically, and are subjected to serious scrutiny.

For an investigation to be of any value, there is always a need to apply scientific rigour, together with the logical analysis of evidence.

The case for Christianity (or any other religion) would never stand up in a court of law, as there is not one grain of plausible evidence to support it. I have prosecuted thousands of criminals successfully, but would hate to stand up in court to prove the existence of god.

Kind Regards,
Stephen.
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Reply #267 - September 10, 2014, 11:28 PM

Quote
but would hate to stand up in court to prove the existence of god.

To go off on a little tangent, that's a lot of why I wound up leaving Islam after only a few years of being in real apologist mode.

I could do it, man. I could stand up and just spout this nonsense and construct some crazy justifications for why Islam was true, why the Quran was true, really just cramming science and Islam together in a way that bastardized them both. I could do it, but I knew, even when an opponent didn't (and some didn't), that even my best work wouldn't hold water half as well as the laziest arguments made by a skeptic. That it was full of holes that I couldn't cover if only the other person realized where to prod them.

I eventually started dreading being put in the position to defend my religion. I had all my arguments and all my answers lined up, I was usually very well-received by other Muslims for my efforts (some even credit me to this day with renewing their faith), I never had anyone totally destroy me in a debate (although that was mostly luck and maybe mercy on their part; if I had crossed paths with some of the folks here I wouldn't be able to say that today), but at the end of the day, I dreaded it. Because it was hard fucking work. Because it wasn't true. The truth was on the opponents' side, and I knew it, and they knew it.
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Reply #268 - September 11, 2014, 12:01 AM

Dear Lua,

Please allow me to award you the parrot of logic and reason. This parrot stands as a symbol of your passing from darkness into light.

I was very fortunate in having parents and grandparents who were not religiously inclined, though they did scrub me up and send me to Sunday School occasionally. Even at that early age, I dismissed it all as nonsense.

So you see, I have not had the struggle that you have, and I admire you for having the courage to go against all that has been drummed into you.

Kind Regards,
Stephen.
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Why Allah is unlike any other deity
Reply #269 - September 11, 2014, 12:23 AM

Aw, thank you, Stephen, I wish I could accept, but I was actually a convert due to some sloppy bargaining in my early teens, so I couldn't compare with many people on here who were born into it.

I started out in Christianity, but I thought the whole story was absurd, particularly the bit about the all-powerful God needing his son to be sacrificed in order to shift around the qualifications for heaven and hell? So I jumped ship onto one that seemed to solve my problem at the time, as being an atheist was out of the question if I wanted to keep my parents happy.

It was a pretty silly thing to do. But it's such a relief to not have to deal with it anymore!
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