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Theme Changer

 Topic: Cosmology in Islam

 (Read 8865 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Cosmology in Islam
     OP - May 28, 2014, 09:35 AM

    This article is on the topic of Cosmology in Islam and has no relation to my current belief system [Atheism].

    Cosmology in the Quran
    Islam is a 7th Century cult invented by Muhammed to gain power over Arabia and nothing more. I plan to outline some major flaws in the Quran and Islam that should bring down the whole religion.

    In the Quran all verses point towards a universe with a flat earth, geocentricty and stars being decorations and nothing more. There is not a single verse or hadith suggesting other wise. This is a great telling of Islam being made up.

    I'm going to first focus on Flat Earth in the Quran.

    Quote
    And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. - 15:19


    Quote
    He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others. - 20:53

    Quote
    (Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way); - 43:10

    Quote
    And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs) - 50:7

    Quote
    And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out! - 51:48

    Quote
    And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out), - 71:19

    Quote
    Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, - 78:6

    Quote
    And the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew and stretched/spread it - 79:30

    Quote
    And at the Earth, how it is spread out? - 88:20

    Quote
    By the Earth and its (wide) expanse - 91:6


    All of these verses point towards a flat earth. Not one points towards a spherical Earth.

    People may say that since Allah only says "flattend the Earth" it does not point towards an actual FLAT Earth. To them I show them this Sahih Bukari Hadith!
    Quote
    Narrated Abu Dharr: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’" - Sahih Bukhari 4:54:421


    I will now move on to Geocentrism in the Quran.
    Quote
    It is He Who made the sun a shining thing and the moon as a light and measured out its (their) stages, that you might know the number of years and the reckoning. Allāh did not create this but in truth. He explains the signs in detail for people who have knowledge. - 10:5

    Quote
    Allah is He who raised the heavens without any pillars that you can see; is firmly established on the throne; He has subjected the sun and the moon! Each one runs for a term appointed. He regulates the matter, explaining the signs in detail, so you can be certain of meeting with your Lord. - 13:2

    Quote
    Don't you see that Allah merges night into day and he merges day into night and he has subjected the sun, and the moon each running its course for a term appointed. And Allah is aware of what you do. - 31:29

    Quote
    A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness and the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. - 36:37

    Quote
    He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? - 39:5

    Quote
    […] He made the Sun and the moon subservient (to you); each one pursues its course to an appointed time; He regulates the affair, making clear the signs - 13:2

    Quote
    A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness and the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. - 36:37

    Quote
    It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the Sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the Sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything (unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. - Sahih Muslim 1:297


    The last quote is a Sahih Muslim Hadith proving that Muhammed belived in a Geocentric world. Now why would Allah decive him like this?

    The picture below aptly demonstrates Islamic Cosmology:


    This picture is backed by Quranic Evidence [1].

    Quote
    And, indeed, We have adorned the lowest heaven (the heaven of the world) with stars, and made (out of) them missiles to drive away devils; and for them, We have prepared (in the Hereafter) the punishment of the Blaze. - 67:5


    The above verse states that ALL stars are in the First Heaven. This verse proves that the above picture is a correct demonstartion of Islamic Heaven. In the Quran, Allah states that the Heavens are Earth are different entities but we know now that we are actually a part of the first heaven.

    In fact there are stars below us. We humans have past the first Heaven which essentially disproves Allah.

    Now many Muslims will try and say that Allah used a 7th Century Cosmological Model so that the 7th Century Bediouns would understand.

    Well that is an okay argument BUT the question is, why couldn't Allah tell the Arabs how the Univerise ACTUALLY works!? Once Allah's model would be proven EVERYONE would convert to Islam? Why not do that.

    OR, Allah could've acutally made the Universe EXACTLY how he says it is! Why would Allah deliberately create a Universe that contradicts his own book. Doesn't that invalidate Islam?

    Allah has three options.

    The first is tell everyone how the universe actually works. If Allah did this we would all be Muslims because at that time it was impossible to know how the universe works.

    The second is to actually make the Earth flat. The world geocentric, etc.. This would make the Quran scientficly correct!

    The third is to create a Universe the exact oppisite of what it says in the Quran. The oppiste of the Hadiths. Basically make the Quran incorrect. If Allah actually did this, who can blame me or you for leaving Islam? This is stupid design. Who designs a universe that contradicts their religion?

    If Allah excists that means that he chose option 3. He chose to lead us all astray by fucking with the Universe and his book! Who can blame us for leaving? This destorys Islam! This is proof that Islam was invented by a 7th Century Arab named Mohammed.

    Sources
    [1] - http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Cosmology_of_the_Quran
    [2] - http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Geocentrism_and_the_Quran
    [3] - http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran
    [4] - https://pay.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/26j5jn/do_people_leave_islam_due_to_emotional_thoughts/chrmyk8?context=3
    [5] - https://pay.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/26j5jn/do_people_leave_islam_due_to_emotional_thoughts/chrmyk8?context=1

    Quote
    Ash'hadu An La Ilaha - I bare witness that there is no God.

  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #1 - May 28, 2014, 11:24 AM

    I think that Islam believes that this whole universe is the first heaven. But that deceiver Maurice Bucaille had a different opinion. He said that in Arabic number seven refers to many and that the 'skies' are actually galaxies.
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #2 - May 28, 2014, 12:07 PM

    Quote
    I think that Islam believes that this whole universe is the first heaven. But that deceiver Maurice Bucaille had a different opinion. He said that in Arabic number seven refers to many and that the 'skies' are actually galaxies.


    Once the whole Heavens idea was debunked the Muslims rushed to come up with an excuse.

    Quote
    Ash'hadu An La Ilaha - I bare witness that there is no God.

  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #3 - May 29, 2014, 09:08 AM

    Hi, I'm new here..I've been browsing thru posts..I'm no muslim or following any religion currently..

    about ur post, after reading it, I searched for more info on the web..found some Muslims arguing that there are verses in the Quran that says earth is shaped like an egg.


    What's ur opinion on this?
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #4 - May 29, 2014, 09:26 AM

    Welcome Spin.. I've also read a long long time ago alternative interpretations that place Allah at the centre of creation as an omnipresent being, rather than outside it, but perhaps it wasnt a sound version, it will take me forever to find the source..  : )   Have you got the links so we can have a peruse..
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #5 - May 29, 2014, 10:23 AM

    Thanks suki  Afro

    ------Does Quran have Geographical errors?
    A Rebuttal to Islam-watch.com and Answering-Islam.org

    Is the Earth is flat like carpet?

    And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon Mountains firm and immovable. "Surah 15:19

    Response:

    Firstly the next verse to the above verse is
    Question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh:

    "And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 19
    But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: "That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 20

    Earth has been spread out :
    Similarly, the Qur’an says in several verses that the earth has been spread out.
    "And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!"
    The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 51, Verse 48

    Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:

    "Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?"
    The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7

    None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says:
    "O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!"
    The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 29, Verse 56
    Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.

    Moreover, for clearance:
    There are many verses in Quran stating that Allah has spread the earth like carpet. "Carpet" the arabic word use in these verse are
    "mahdan" , "madad"
    Which means : reach , elongate , extend , draw out , lengthen, stretch out , spread out , outstretch , pervade , lengthen, flatten , smoothen , smooth , level ,

    More for  confirmation:
    Earh is egg-shape (gesographical) proofed by Quran itself:
    Earth is geospherical in shape
    The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
    "And we have made the earth egg shaped".
    The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 79, Verse 30
    The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth. And approved by science.

    Meaning Of Gesopherical
    Earth's crust - the outer layer of the Earth, OR Layer, Earth, Globe, Earth Surface.

    A Look on Surah 79:30
    "And after that He spread the earth."

    Spread out does not mean flat. If you read the verses from the beginning of the Surah you'll see that it refers to the size of the earth as being large enough that it appears flat, there's no confusion about this whether you read it in Arabic or in English.

    Quranic translations on Qur'an 79:30

    Yusuf Ali: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
    Pickthal: And after that He spread the earth,
    Arberry: and the earth-after that He spread it out,
    Shakir: And the earth, He expanded it after that.
    Sarwar: After this, He spread out the earth,
    Hilali/Khan: And after that He spread the earth;
    Malik: After that He spread out the earth,
    Maulana Ali: And the earth, He cast it after that.
    Free Minds: And the land after that He spread out.
    Some translations have attempted to translate the word dahaha to mean made egg-shaped or like an ‘ostrich egg’. Khalifa: He made the earth egg-shaped.
    QXP: And after that He made the earth shoot out from the Cosmic Nebula and made it spread out egg-shaped. ('Dahaha' entails all the meanings rendered (21:30), (41:11) ----

    This is one of the reference..

    I copy n pasted the whole thing as I couldn't post the link..

    Some of my muslim friends claims that there are many verses reveals 'science'..any clue?
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #6 - May 29, 2014, 10:36 AM

    ..........................

    Some of my muslim friends claims that there are many verses reveals 'science'..any clue?

    hello spin... how are you doing?  never read your posts new to CEMB? anyway welcome.

    Well tell your Muslim friends (or for that matter any friend from any religion) who says to you that there is hidden modern science in mambo-jumbo religious rubbish which is  written some 1000s of years ago to take of their pants,  put on diaper and join in preschool ., or 1st grade . That is where they have to start learning about science and thinking about logic & rationale behind  in any field of Science..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #7 - May 29, 2014, 11:22 AM

    Hi, I'm new here..I've been browsing thru posts..I'm no muslim or following any religion currently..

    about ur post, after reading it, I searched for more info on the web..found some Muslims arguing that there are verses in the Quran that says earth is shaped like an egg.

    What's ur opinion on this?


    Hello Spin.

    Welcome to CEMB. People claiming that the Earth is shaped like an egg are ignorant. The word "Dahaha" means flatten! "Dahaha" originates from another arabic word. This other arabic word is used to describe when an Ostrich flatten the ground so that it may lay it's egg!

    Go pull out an Arabic dictionary and check for yourself!

    Spin, I don't want to make fun of you but this is going to be the last time I will expain something for you. If you have any other questions ask them to another member. You should be more intelligent than this, you copy and paste some article without actually reading it and then ask me to debunk it. The article's idiocy speaks for it's self!

    Quote
    Ash'hadu An La Ilaha - I bare witness that there is no God.

  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #8 - May 29, 2014, 11:41 AM

    Hello Spin.

    Welcome to CEMB. People claiming that the Earth is shaped like an egg are ignorant. The word "Dahaha" means flatten! "Dahaha" originates from another arabic word. This other arabic word is used to describe when an Ostrich flatten the ground so that it may lay it's egg!

    Go pull out an Arabic dictionary and check for yourself!

    Spin, I don't want to make fun of you but this is going to be the last time I will expain something for you. If you have any other questions ask them to another member. You should be more intelligent than this, you copy and paste some article without actually reading it and then ask me to debunk it. The article idiocy speaks for it's self!


    Hu!.. Oh my goodness gracious I didn't even realize that  Abu Murtad .. A,Murtad young and very advanced Murtad. Now I got to read all of his posts..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #9 - May 29, 2014, 12:00 PM

    Hello Spin.

    Welcome to CEMB. People claiming that the Earth is shaped like an egg are ignorant. The word "Dahaha" means flatten! "Dahaha" originates from another arabic word. This other arabic word is used to describe when an Ostrich flatten the ground so that it may lay it's egg!

    Go pull out an Arabic dictionary and check for yourself!

    Spin, I don't want to make fun of you but this is going to be the last time I will expain something for you. If you have any other questions ask them to another member. You should be more intelligent than this, you copy and paste some article without actually reading it and then ask me to debunk it. The article idiocy speaks for it's self!


    Why's everyone so damm rude on this forum, he's just asking a question  wacko

    Edit: i generalised a bit lol
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #10 - May 29, 2014, 12:19 PM

    Why's everyone so damm rude on this forum, he's just asking a question  wacko

    Edit: i generalised a bit lol

    Nah........ not all are rude.. ONLY 30% ARE RUDE.....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #11 - May 29, 2014, 12:26 PM

    We aren't good at dawah, suki. Grin
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #12 - May 29, 2014, 12:43 PM

     ^  Hey, true Lua  Smiley   far away hug

    Yezeeze, I was surprised by that link above  that north africa and mid east are the fattest people, i would have thought it was usa and england lol..  actually i saw on the news today that we uk women are the fattest in europe lol.. Were such beauties lol.. Actually ive had lots of european friends in the past and they say they could get sacked from work if they get overweight..   
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #13 - May 29, 2014, 12:48 PM

    Wait what, we're not the fattest? What happened? Have other countries discovered the ways of my kinfolk who makes cake with crisco icing?  wacko

    Anyway, great article, Abu Murtad!
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #14 - May 29, 2014, 12:53 PM

    ........................

    Yezeeze, I was surprised ................

    Huh! what ?  Yezeeze, ?      Yo youze??  Huh? Cry
     
    Yeee....zee....zeeeeee   Hmm. That rhymes well .., I should add it to MY QURAN...

    Anyway, great article, Abu Murtad!

    and Abu Murtad is a ISLAMOPHOBE....... Biiig ISLAMOPHOBE  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #15 - May 29, 2014, 01:05 PM

    ....actually i saw on the news today that we uk women are the fattest in europe lol.. Were such beauties lol..

    British women are the best! Those sexy accents... And because there are so many awesome female British scientists like Rosalind Franklin.
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #16 - May 29, 2014, 01:12 PM

    ha ha yep were always told how fat uk and america is, usa percentage is small compared to north africa..  lol i would have never have thought n. Africa.. Gulf of arabia, yep i can imagine as they dont do much work and still have paid and unpaid slaves..  wacko

    sorry Yeezevee, i keep calling you yezeeze ??  wacko  i'm terrible at rememebering names  (hugs)

    xooo
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #17 - May 29, 2014, 01:16 PM

    British women are the best! Those sexy accents... And because there are so many awesome female British scientists like Rosalind Franklin.


    Ah ok if u say so lol..  although the further you get to the north of england the less sexier it gets and degresses into neanderthral grunts  yes  well apart from scotland but thats not england lol 
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #18 - May 29, 2014, 01:17 PM



      i'm terrible at rememebering names  (hugs)





    & gender Tongue

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #19 - May 29, 2014, 01:22 PM

    yes 
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #20 - May 29, 2014, 01:30 PM

    @Spin- The Earth is geoid not egg-shaped. Geoid simply means Earth-shaped.

    And welcome to the forum:). Please do introduce yourself in the 'Introductions' section. And here is a parrot for you- parrot.
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #21 - May 29, 2014, 02:24 PM

    Hu!.. Oh my goodness gracious I didn't even realize that  Abu Murtad .. A,Murtad young and very advanced Murtad. Now I got to read all of his posts..


    Wow! thnkyu that means so much to me!

    Quote
    Ash'hadu An La Ilaha - I bare witness that there is no God.

  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #22 - May 29, 2014, 03:12 PM


    And welcome to the forum:). Please do introduce yourself in the 'Introductions' section. And here is a parrot for you- parrot.


    Yes, if you weren't run off, welcome to the forum!
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #23 - May 29, 2014, 04:10 PM

    Abu Murtad,

    Thanks fr sharing ur opinion..

    Rubaya, thanks..

    Actually I've no doubt abt the shape of earth, but my doubt was if such verse like "earth shaped like egg" is in the Quran..Anyways, found some better explained articles.. Afro
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #24 - November 25, 2014, 10:26 PM

    He hath loosed the two seas. They meet.    
    There is a barrier between them. They encroach not (one upon the other) (55:19-20)

    And He it is Who hath given independence to the two seas (though they meet); one palatable, sweet, and the other saltish, bitter; and hath set a bar and a forbidding ban between them. (25:53)

    Translations from Pickthall

    Is this a reference to the Biblical firmament? One body is in the heavens and is held back by a firmament (like a dome thing), but sometimes when it rains some of the water leaks through (this would be fresh water as opposed to salty ocean water on Earth). This idea comes from the Genesis account of creation. It seems pretty close, but I am at the mercy of translation based on Muslim exegesis which could have tried to interpret it Biblically.

    Compare it to this:

    "You set the earth on its foundations,
    so that it shall never be shaken.
    You cover it with the deep as with
    a garment;
    the waters stood above the
    mountains.

    At your rebuke they flee;
    at the sound of your thunder they
    take to flight.
    They rose up to the mountains, ran down to the valleys
    to the place that you appointed for them.
    You set a boundary that they may not
    pass,

    so that they might not again cover
    the earth"(Psalms 104:5-104:9)

    I'll include the Genesis passage too:

    And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
    And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
    And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
    And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
    And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:6-10)

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #25 - November 26, 2014, 08:13 AM

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7DNG6lDulDEJ:https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

    This site has a detailed list and discussion about all Biblical references to a flat earth.  It is fascinating how the quran has cped ideas!

    I have posted the google cache address as the live site seems problematic.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #26 - November 26, 2014, 08:40 PM

    And the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew and stretched/spread it - 79:30

    And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. - 15:19


    does the term "spread out" really mean flat, or spread out from our viewpoint?
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #27 - November 27, 2014, 05:09 PM

    is this really a quran error, or the quran meant the earth is flat from our viewpoint & this is what the quran was referring to & not the actual shape of the Earth? but the quran says "the earth we have spread out" & not "the earth was spread out from your viewpoint"

    Is the quran supposed  to say things from 7th century Arabs viewpoint or descrive things as they are?


    Lets take it to the people & check it out. We got to do it!!!
  • Cosmology in Islam
     Reply #28 - November 27, 2014, 05:23 PM

    It would be wise to take it to the authorities for checking big time!!
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