Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →
↑ ↓
CEMB → Forum → Welcome to the forum → The Lounge → comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Yesterday at 06:41 AM
Lights on the way
by akay
April 27, 2024, 01:26 PM
New Britain
April 27, 2024, 08:42 AM
What's happened to the fo...
April 27, 2024, 08:30 AM
Qur'anic studies today
April 23, 2024, 02:50 AM
Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 08:02 AM
Do humans have needed kno...
April 19, 2024, 12:17 AM
Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 05:56 PM
عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:01 PM
Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 08:06 AM
Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 05:44 AM
Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 08:53 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report

 (Read 9619 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #60 - May 23, 2014, 07:33 AM
    Quote from: lua on May 22, 2014, 10:00 AM
    like Tzortzis being called a co-founder instead of "Senior Researcher and Lecturer."

     


    urgh!!

    I cringe whenever hamza refers to himself as a senior lecturer and researcher.   The guy couldn't conduct a real academic research report if his life depended on it.

    The only thing that dimwit is good for is selling snake oil and used cars.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #61 - May 23, 2014, 07:44 AM
    Another response, this time from Tzortzis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzeopZioh0M

    This one is actually interesting to me, despite the fact that he was not even trying to hide that he was reading from a script or a list of bullet points. He's pretty honest about the Islamic position "as well as the predominant view of most people of the world--most religious people of the world--that homosexual practices are sins in the eyes of God." Adds that with Islam in particular, morality isn't shifting, and doesn't change, and that's why he brought cannibalism and pedophilia into the equation, to demonstrate that morally reprehensible things don't become cool over time.  But that's not comparing homosexuality to those, right? Not once did he do that!

    Also, iERA has a great history of engaging with the LGBT community and the discussions were fruitful. Hamza Tzortzis believes strongly that homosexuals are human beings. Hamza Tzortzis has gay family members, and he is nice to them, so he's not homophobic.

  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #62 - May 23, 2014, 07:48 AM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on May 23, 2014, 07:33 AM



    urgh!!

    I cringe whenever hamza refers to himself as a senior lecturer and researcher.   The guy couldn't conduct a real academic research report if his life depended on it.

    The only thing that dimwit is good for is selling snake oil and used cars.


    If he didn't have this gig, he'd have no real prospects, I'm sure.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #63 - May 23, 2014, 07:53 AM
    It's like people making a career from being TV evangelists or what not. Religion is poison.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #64 - May 23, 2014, 08:28 AM
    Quote from: lua on May 23, 2014, 07:44 AM
    Another response, this time from Tzortzis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzeopZioh0M

    This one is actually interesting to me, despite the fact that he was not even trying to hide that he was reading from a script or a list of bullet points. He's pretty honest about the Islamic position "as well as the predominant view of most people of the world--most religious people of the world--that homosexual practices are sins in the eyes of God." Adds that with Islam in particular, morality isn't shifting, and doesn't change, and that's why he brought cannibalism and pedophilia into the equation, to demonstrate that morally reprehensible things don't become cool over time.  But that's not comparing homosexuality to those, right? Not once did he do that!

    Also, iERA has a great history of engaging with the LGBT community and the discussions were fruitful. Hamza Tzortzis believes strongly that homosexuals are human beings. Hamza Tzortzis has gay family members, and he is nice to them, so he's not homophobic.





    Thanks for the synopsis, Lua. I can’t watch the video just yet.

    It really is marvelous to see these guys on the defensive like this. This is how social change comes about. Prevailing immoral ideas are challenged and those who hold them are left to either defend them or discard them. To see such a large and influential Muslim organization have their ideas exposed and challenged can only lead to good.

     It’s a story that has repeated itself with racists, bigots, sexists, and the like throughout modern history. And par for the course, they always blame “God” for their hate.  “We aren’t racists. It’s just that in God’s eyes, blacks are meant to be subservient.” “We aren’t sexist. God just wants for a woman’s place to be in the home.” “We aren’t homophobic. It’s God’s word that homosexuality is a sin.”
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #65 - May 23, 2014, 08:29 AM
    Quote from: lua on May 23, 2014, 07:44 AM
    Another response, this time from Tzortzis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzeopZioh0M

     

    I barely made it through that video.

    Hamza and iERA are full of two faced scumbag liars.  They say they wouldn't oppress anyone soley for public relations purposes and to get people to convert.

    We all know they would oppress minorities and take away human rights if they had any political power.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #66 - May 23, 2014, 09:49 AM
    I’m really just gathering my thoughts here, but I believe this subject might warrant a blog post, perhaps even a video.

    Hamza’s appeal to immutable morality based on eternal, divinely inspired principles is a tactic long used by bigots to defend their hatred. I am immediately reminded of the famed Cornerstone Spech, in which the overtly racist vice president of the Confederacy defends the act of slavery by invoking “natural” law based on “Providence.” The idea is that while human beings erroneously assume that we can reassess and improve upon standing moral judgments, only systems based upon the “order of Providence” (which is essentially a fancy phrase for “the way God wants things to be”) can be truly just.

    Speaking on the issue of slavery and the difference between the constitutionally enshrined idea of equality for all men and the subjugation of slaves in the Confederate States, Alexander Stephens said:

    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.
    . . . look with confidence to the ultimate universal acknowledgement of the truths upon which our system rests? It is the first government ever instituted upon the principles in strict conformity to nature, and the ordination of Providence, in furnishing the materials of human society. Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature's laws.

    Compare this with Hamza’s assertion that homosexuality is morally sinful because it violates the unchangeable law God. When one’s own hatred and bigotry are projected onto an absent and abstract entity - an entity that is both entirely separate from the human experience and void of any vested interest in the improvement of the human condition - any anti-human injustice becomes defensible.

    Rejecting an immutable, externally derived sense of morality, however, allows us to evaluate our interactions and judgments as human beings, improve upon our notions of right and wrong, and ensure that suffering is minimized and rights are ensured for as many of us as is possible.

    More to come.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #67 - May 23, 2014, 10:39 AM
    Oh the good old fallacy of "I have a friend who is gay/black " so I can't be racist/homophobic..

    That's a silly argument and is like saying no man can be sexist cos every man has a mum
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #68 - May 23, 2014, 10:57 AM
    No problem, Happymurtad. I'll let Hamza's voice assault my ears so you don't have to.

    Quote
    I’m really just gathering my thoughts here, but I believe this subject might warrant a blog post, perhaps even a video.


    Please do. It reminds me of this guy's speech:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JsRx2lois

    I really love his closing points: to stand on the right side of history. And at the end of the day, that's what it's going to come down to. A religious ideology with such inflexible and outdated views is fated to be watered down or abandoned, and mainstream Islam's days are numbered. Many years from now, we and all these iERA preachers are going to be dead and gone, and eventually homophobia is going to be viewed as completely indefensible, just like racism. Eventually, everyone will look back and see Hamza et al. for the bigots that they are, if they care to look back at them at all.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #69 - May 23, 2014, 11:04 AM
    ^This is exactly the point I want to make. It is a trend with dying bigoted ideas. Without anything to substantiate their assertions, they appeal to God and “nature” with no regard to what actually improves the lives of human beings.

     As I understand it, opponents of women’s suffrage also argued that as a woman’s natural place was in the home, efforts to enhance the female presence in the political arena were “reforms against nature.”

    Once again, what was best or most beneficial for women was not taken into consideration. Instead, unfounded appeals to an abstract, non-human entity are made to deny human beings of their right to advancement.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #70 - May 23, 2014, 11:11 AM
    Exactly. And again, blog post would be awesome if you ever get around to it, you have a great way with words.  yes
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #71 - May 23, 2014, 02:23 PM
    Quote from: billy on May 22, 2014, 04:46 PM
    Islamic Relief are not comparable to iERA. They are an emergency disaster aid charity. They don't preach Islam, make dawah or promote wahaabi hate preachers.



    That's a fair comment  even though some (Israel for example) argue that they do albeit indirectly. Abdur Raheem Green & Yusef Estes for example have both attended Islamic Relief fundraising events & the following is the Israeli view on Islamic Relief:
    http://standforpeace.org.uk/islamic-relief-worldwide-terror-connections-and-promotion-of-hate-preachers/
    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #72 - May 23, 2014, 03:16 PM
    I don't understand why the "natural law" arguments is still being pushed as a real argument. Even by evangelists standards, it's pretty weak; particularly when you look at how well that argument has done in the past.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #73 - May 23, 2014, 04:36 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on May 23, 2014, 09:49 AM
    I’m really just gathering my thoughts here, but I believe this subject might warrant a blog post, perhaps even a video.

    Hamza’s appeal to immutable morality based on eternal, divinely inspired principles is a tactic long used by bigots to defend their hatred.


    bang on the money.

    I also don't think its sincere, its all tactical for them, when Islamists get cornered they play the persecuted / multiculturalism rhetoric card. Deeply cynical and sinister.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #74 - May 23, 2014, 06:11 PM
    Quote
    when Islamists get cornered they play the persecuted / multiculturalism rhetoric card. Deeply cynical and sinister.

     

    Is it just me or does Hamza's voice change when he gets cornered and knows he is losing the argument.

    The voice I hear in this desperate defense video is the same voice he had when Professor Hoodboy exposed him for not knowing what he was talking about and also when lawrence krauss exposed hamza's lack of knowledge about cosmology and phsyics as well.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #75 - May 23, 2014, 06:14 PM
    ^ I know it more by how talkative he's being, or how energetic he is. When he really thinks he's got his opponents by the short hairs, he speaks a million words a minute, smiling, joking, grinning. When he's in trouble, he gets awfully quiet. See his appearance on the Magic Sandwich Show. Quiet as a mouse.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #76 - May 23, 2014, 10:03 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on May 23, 2014, 09:49 AM
    Rejecting an immutable, externally derived sense of morality, however, allows us to evaluate our interactions and judgments as human beings, improve upon our notions of right and wrong, and ensure that suffering is minimized and rights are ensured for as many of us as is possible.

    This is the key point for me, and it's where the liberal consensus too goes wrong. By making it mandatory, tolerance becomes just a form of social positioning and disguise.

    True tolerance only ever comes from the heart and will never be universal, but societies are more likely to develop along humane lines if tolerance is taken out of the political (or religious) arena and made a matter of personal search and discovery, a moral aspiration.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #77 - May 24, 2014, 01:12 AM
    Tolerances of the intolerable.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #78 - May 24, 2014, 09:43 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 23, 2014, 07:16 AM
    Let me add this loonwatch.com 

    Quote
    LW: What are your thoughts on the article and maybe such organizations? You don’t hear about Councils of Ex-Christians, Ex-Jews or Ex-Buddhists. I understand that there is this need for a space where you can share your experiences and thoughts with like-minded individuals but it seems rather conspicuous when your members are aligning with far-right organizations and causes or championing individuals who support apartheid, occupation, illegal settlements, aggressive illegal wars, torture, the stripping away of civil liberties and so fort


    What??? finmad Maybe if Christianity and Buddhism called for the death of apostates and ran countries where this was law, you'd see ex-Christian and ex-Buddhist organizations popping up Roll Eyes These people make my blood boil.  Illegal wars? Torture? Settlements? Really? Most CEMBers are left-wing and can hardly be accused of being pro-war American jingoists or fans of Israel. How ridiculous. Any criticism of Islam is from Bush-era torture and apartheid-loving Nazis Roll Eyes Considering LW is pro-Muslim Brotherhood and pro-shari'ah, they can shut the fuck up about civil liberties.
    /rant
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #79 - May 24, 2014, 09:45 AM
    ^ Is there even anyone here who doesn't at least tilt more towards the left in regards to social issues?
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #80 - May 24, 2014, 09:48 AM
    ^I couldn't name one conservative here, let alone one person who supports torture or Israeli settlements. It's the usual straw-man used by Muslim apologists and their allies. "What, you think Islam is bad? I bet you supported the Iraq war and Ariel Sharon, you Fox News-watching neo-Nazi!"
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #81 - May 24, 2014, 11:42 AM
    People often forgot history when it suits them. Secularism was rammed down Christians throats after centuries of warfare. They forgot about all the non-Christians, Ex-Christians and Ex-(insert denomination) that died in these wars or were executed by religious and political authorities. Willful ignorance to make a strawman point /golfclap
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #82 - May 24, 2014, 11:46 AM
    Its just another version of the apostasy code, instead of saying 'kill them', its saying 'these murtads are evil'

    Its basically the 'progressive' version of the aposatsy teachings that hipster Muslims use
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #83 - May 24, 2014, 10:09 PM
    I am still going through the initial report and have yet to read the response. I have to stop again and put the children to bed, and I wanted to say, before I forget, that I see all the hard work that has gone into this report, all the intel that was gathered on each member listed, and I understand how consuming it was to do this. I really appreciate this effort, as much as I appreciate having all this information in one place. How nice it is for anyone checking their facts, to search out these personalities online and find this comprehensive list. This really is like a report out of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which is often the first voice loud enough to reach my eyes through the media here.
    Thank you for all your hard work.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #84 - May 25, 2014, 07:23 AM
    mainstream media picks up on the report

    Sunday Telegraph

    Quote
    A leading Islamic charity is being investigated by the official watchdog amid allegations that its leaders promote anti-Semitism and have called for homosexuals and female adulterers to be stoned to death.
    The Islamic Education and Research Academy (iERA), which claims it works with two major British charities, lists among its advisers two preachers banned from the UK for extremist views.

    The Charity Commission first became concerned after reports that the organisation had imposed gender segregation at its meetings held on university campuses. The University of London has banned the charity as a consequence.

    Now the commission has announced a full-blown investigation after identifying a number of “regulatory issues” over its organisation of events and how it chooses speakers and preachers for them.

    The investigation — likened by the commission to a police inquiry — coincides with a devastating 44-page report into iERA by the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain (CEMB), an organisation set up to combat Islamist extremism.

    IERA was founded by Abdurraheem Green, a Muslim convert, who is the charity’s chairman. He has been caught on camera preaching at Hyde Park Corner, calling for a Jewish man to be removed from his sight. “Why don’t you take the Yahoudi [Jew] over there, far away so his stench doesn’t disturb us?” he can be heard to say.

    In a 2006 internet posting, according to the CEMB report, he described gay people as “vile” and “evil”. The report also says he suggested in a blog that women who commit adultery should be subjected to a “slow and painful death by stoning”. Two of the charity’s advisers are Bilal Philips and Dr Zakir Naik, who have both been banned from entering the UK by Theresa May, the Home Secretary.

    Maryam Namazie, from the Council of ex-Muslims of Britain, said the organisation should be stripped of its charitable status. “Clearly, the Islamist far-Right should not be granted charitable status but instead classified as a hate group – perpetrating hate against gay people, ex-Muslims, women, Jews, non-Muslims and the majority of Muslims who do not subscribe to their values.”

    In a statement, the Charity Commission said: “The regulator is investigating concerns about the charity’s governance. The inquiry was opened following a records inspection at the charity’s premises in January 2014. The regulator says that it identified a number of regulatory issues connected to the charity’s approach and policies for organising events and inviting external speakers and its associated records and documents.”

    The charity, which is based in London, says on its website it is a global organisation “committed to presenting Islam to wider society”. It issued a statement saying it was co-operating with the commission’s statutory inquiry. The charity said: “iERA considers to have willingly complied with the statutory case demands and already clearly articulated any discrepancies to the commission. Although iERA does not see the reason for a formal investigation they are fully supporting and assisting the Charity Commission’s formal inquiry.”

    In the statement, the charity added that it had “been engaged in charity work which has benefited our fellow Britons and communities abroad. This includes supporting charities such as Age UK”.

    iERA said it also worked with Great Ormond Street Hospital but last night the hospital said: “We are aware that two people, who are also members of the Islamic Education and Research Academy, are taking part in an independent local fun run and have chosen to raise funds for the charity, as thousands of people do every year. We have no further association with the organisation.”

    A spokesman for Age UK said: “We are not aware of any work the iERA do for the national charity Age UK in the community.”


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10854579/Anti-Semitic-charity-under-investigation.html


    BBC radio

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSOTnb2ODLk
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #85 - May 25, 2014, 07:28 AM
    Great work again to those involved in this important and monumental task.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #86 - May 25, 2014, 07:50 AM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on May 24, 2014, 09:48 AM
    ^I couldn't name one conservative here, let alone one person who supports torture or Israeli settlements. It's the usual straw-man used by Muslim apologists and their allies. "What, you think Islam is bad? I bet you supported the Iraq war and Ariel Sharon, you Fox News-watching neo-Nazi!"

    I think it's just a way for the ultra left wing to not have to acknowledge the experience and testimony of apostates. The reality of the apostate and their testimony is inconvenient for left wing efforts to portray any and all criticism of the Islamic dogma system as racism and bigotry. They get a lot of mileage out of that. It's one of their biggest meal tickets.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #87 - May 25, 2014, 09:45 AM
    bang on ^^^

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #88 - May 25, 2014, 10:58 AM
    Lol! I like to see the good in people but I'm struggling to defend their charity work now:

    "iERA said it also worked with Great Ormond Street Hospital but last night the hospital said: “We are aware that two people, who are also members of the Islamic Education and Research Academy, are taking part in an independent local fun run and have chosen to raise funds for the charity, as thousands of people do every year. We have no further association with the organisation.”

    A spokesman for Age UK said: “We are not aware of any work the iERA do for the national charity Age UK in the community.”

    They claim to be doing a tremendous amount of charity/community work that also benefits non muslims as part of their ethos. I can't find evidence of this 'tremendous' amount.
    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • comments on iERA's response to 'Evangelising Hate' report
     Reply #89 - May 25, 2014, 12:12 PM
    Quote from: billy on May 25, 2014, 07:23 AM
    mainstream media picks up on the report

    Sunday Telegraph

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10854579/Anti-Semitic-charity-under-investigation.html


    BBC radio

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSOTnb2ODLk


    I didn't realise how extensive the CEMB report was. Great work by all those involved Afro
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »