Sudan apostasy case - Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey

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- Adey5
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Sudan apostasy case - Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey
Reply #30 - May 22, 2014, 11:08 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on May 21, 2014, 10:47 PM
Anglicans are not Biblical literalists, so your point is moot. You'll find other Christian denominations who are vulnerable to your criticism if any of their pastors criticise the Islamists for apostasy laws, but the Anglicans are on safe enough ground.

Carey's claim that 'any religion that punishes apostasy with death is fundamentally wrong' puts him in a difficult position for Christianity. I never claimed that Anglicans are literalists, that was not my point, but the book they claim to 'use as their moral guide' is absurd.

I am SO glad that Carey and many xtians are hypocrites regarding the bible, because if they weren't we may well be living under biblical law, which could be arguably worse than Sharia. You cant divorce Christianity from the OT without getting in a contradictory twist, so Anglicanism, as benign as it is, theologically and philosophically is on shaky ground.

Nice, peaceful, caring and loving xtians, muslims, jews etc are dismissing their book. That is what I was saying, not that Carey or Anglicans want to kill apostates.

I am better than your god......and so are you.

"Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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Sudan apostasy case - Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey
Reply #31 - May 22, 2014, 11:12 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 21, 2014, 08:30 PM
If there was a historical Jesus, he was a radical rabbi. If he was around today he'd be a hippy religious reformer. He couldn't throw out the OT and start fresh, but he could bring reform. Again, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. None of us are without sin, so none are fit to judge. I would assume he was one of those people who have a shitty religion but are good people, so seek to make the religion good.

You may well have a very good point there, one I have thought about. Maybe Jesus (if he existed) was a nice guy trying to make the best of a bad old testament, and was trying to change attitudes step by step, but we can only speculate on that. As far as Christianity is concerned, all we have is the bible to go on. so that is my starting point.

I am better than your god......and so are you.

"Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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Sudan apostasy case - Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey
Reply #32 - May 22, 2014, 11:17 PM

Quote from: billy on May 21, 2014, 09:00 PM
Yeah but the point is its not hypocritical for an Anglican because they have already thrown all of that out and rejected Biblical literalism. That is what Islam needs to do (but which is extremely hard to do because the literal word of god thing is what is its non negotiable principle)

So Anglicans have edited the bible to suit their own consciences. Sounds like they have invented a new religion. Perhaps they can use the Jefferson bible from now on?

If Anglicans say they use the bible (including OT) as their moral guide, then they ARE being hypocritical. I presume they claim to follow the 10 commandments? Well, they are in the Old Testament!

I am better than your god......and so are you.

"Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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Sudan apostasy case - Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey
Reply #33 - May 22, 2014, 11:19 PM

Quote from: Adey5 on May 22, 2014, 11:08 PM
Carey's claim that 'any religion that punishes apostasy with death is fundamentally wrong' puts him in a difficult position for Christianity. I never claimed that Anglicans are literalists, that was not my point, but the book they claim to 'use as their moral guide' is absurd.

I am SO glad that Carey and many xtians are hypocrites regarding the bible, because if they weren't we may well be living under biblical law, which could be arguably worse than Sharia. You cant divorce Christianity from the OT without getting in a contradictory twist, so Anglicanism, as benign as it is, theologically and philosophically is on shaky ground.

Nice, peaceful, caring and loving xtians, muslims, jews etc are dismissing their book. That is what I was saying, not that Carey or Anglicans want to kill apostates.

In effect not being Muslims or Christians in any real sense, holding on to it for identity, emotional reasons and security.
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Sudan apostasy case - Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey
Reply #34 - May 23, 2014, 12:19 AM

Quote from: Adey5 on May 22, 2014, 11:17 PM
So Anglicans have edited the bible to suit their own consciences. Sounds like they have invented a new religion. Perhaps they can use the Jefferson bible from now on?

If Anglicans say they use the bible (including OT) as their moral guide, then they ARE being hypocritical. I presume they claim to follow the 10 commandments? Well, they are in the Old Testament!

As far as de-fanged and castrated monotheism goes Anglicanism is about as good as it gets at the moment. I'm glad Carey has spoken out too. Lets hope it inspires others in public life to grow a spine and speak out.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Sudan apostasy case - Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey
Reply #35 - May 23, 2014, 12:19 AM

Well many Bibles are made for a target audience or denomination. Version vary from a middle ground between philosophical/theological ideas and word for word translations. So you will see certain doctrine and dogma emphasized held by an audience depending on the slant of each. Each has its targeted message(s) and ideas. Within the introduction notes is enough information to gain an idea of what the translators philosophy is. This philosophy will represent not just which methods of transnationals should be used but controversial issues such as same-sex.

Analytical-Literal Translation and Interlinear Bible reflects Greek the best. Both are hard to read as both follow Greek morphosyntax. Both written in Greek first rather than English so it will be broken English which you need to piece together with the use of a lexicon. I use Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon and Thayer's Greek Lexicon for figures of speech, metaphors, idioms, common phrases, cultural references, references to historical events, or alternate meanings. I use Strong's Concordance for cross referencing Greek and Hebrew words with definitions and application. I use The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament by Ludwig Kohler. There is an new edition but it costs between $200-$300 so I make due.
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