Understanding islam
F.Alhouli has joined the chat.
F.Alhouli (00:01:24) : Hello and welcome to edialogue, how can I help you?
Sooth (00:01:45) : I was hoping to learn a little about the religion of islam
Sooth (00:04:42) : You there?
F.Alhouli (00:04:56) : yes how can i help you?
Sooth (00:05:07) : I was hoping to learn a little about the religion of islam
F.Alhouli (00:05:14) : yes
F.Alhouli (00:05:32) : tell me what are your questions about Islam, please
F.Alhouli (00:06:18) : Do you know the meaning islam?
Sooth (00:06:25) : I don't really have any specific ones. It's in a news a lot and I've recently moved into an area with a lot of muslims, figured it'd be a good idea to learn something
F.Alhouli (00:06:30) : can I know what is your religion?
Sooth (00:07:05) :
Ásatrú
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Ibrahim (00:08:26) : hi Sooth
Sooth (00:08:35) : Hey
Ibrahim (00:08:45) : I'll carry on with you
Sooth (00:08:53) : Sure
Ibrahim (00:09:18) : Islam is nothing new but the constant reminder that "there is no deity except the true one God"
Ibrahim (00:10:21) : we believe there is only one possible God, as per reason tell us that a person lives or die according to the will of one deity
Ibrahim (00:10:51) : if you had two deities, and one of them wanted a man to die
Ibrahim (00:11:16) : while the other wanted the man to live, then there are some possibilities as follows:
Ibrahim (00:12:09) : 1. The man lives, so one of the deities is false
2. The man dies, so the other deity is false
3. the man dies and lives in the same time (which is not possible)
Sooth (00:12:17) : I thought muslims had two gods? A sky father one and a demon king? Allah and Shaytan?
Ibrahim (00:12:32) : false
Ibrahim (00:12:44) : Shaytan is a creation of God
Sooth (00:12:46) : Which gods do you worship?
Ibrahim (00:13:01) : we worship the true one God
Ibrahim (00:13:07) : and you?
Sooth (00:13:51) : I'm a follower of Ásatrú, so I guess from my POV I also worship the one true gods
Sooth (00:14:12) : What's the one true god muslims worship?
Ibrahim (00:14:17) : there is a conflict in your statement, with all due respect
Sooth (00:14:19) : It's the jewish one right?
Ibrahim (00:14:26) : you say one and gods
Ibrahim (00:14:38) : singular and plural is a contradictory statement
Sooth (00:15:15) : Not really. Gods are concepts, such as death is the embodiment of the end of life. All gods obey the All Father
Ibrahim (00:15:20) : our God is the creator of everything you see
Ibrahim (00:16:10) : if I owe you 2 dollars do you accept that I pay only one as dollar is a concept?
Sooth (00:16:34) : I don't understand your point
Ibrahim (00:17:06) : you say God is a concept, Isay the dollar is a concept
Ibrahim (00:17:17) : you count plural as singular which is impossible
Sooth (00:17:24) : I said the gods are concepts, noit the All Father
Ibrahim (00:17:57) : a definition of God is an entity that is allmighty
Sooth (00:18:17) : I don't know much about the muslim god, sorry
Ibrahim (00:18:19) : if an allmighty obeys to another entity, then it stops being a god
Sooth (00:18:32) : Why?
Ibrahim (00:18:48) : there is no Muslim God, but a God of everything and everyone
Sooth (00:19:09) : Oh, I didn't know that. Like buddists? I thought muslims had a god
Sooth (00:19:33) : So you worship nature?
Sooth (00:19:38) : Or the universe?
Ibrahim (00:19:43) : we worship the God that created you
Ibrahim (00:19:52) : I hope it is clearer now =)
Sooth (00:20:02) : Ancestor worship or nature worship?
Ibrahim (00:20:36) : please read above. thank you =)
Sooth (00:21:12) : There isn't a muslim god, yeah I saw that, and you worship the god that created me
Ibrahim (00:21:21) : exactly
Ibrahim (00:21:30) : the is a God of everything
Sooth (00:21:40) : So it's nature worship?
Ibrahim (00:21:51) : nop
Sooth (00:22:02) : I don't get it. You just described nature
Ibrahim (00:22:27) : Nature is creation and not creator
Sooth (00:22:58) : Why would you think that?
Ibrahim (00:23:22) : I'll explain
Sooth (00:23:29) : Go for it
Ibrahim (00:25:19) : Imagine we walk through an unexplored area, then we find a house in the middle of it. It has all sorts of furniture and comodities. Then I tell you it was created by nature after millions of years of movements of the soil and the elements in it. Would you accept my claim?
Sooth (00:26:01) : Sure. Everything comes from nature. If there was no nature to give what was needed, then people could never build
Ibrahim (00:26:19) : I am not talking about the prime material =D
Ibrahim (00:26:40) : I am saying nature created the house and built it
Sooth (00:27:25) : Sure, why not? If you believe humans come from the earth, then we're part of nature. Everything is connected, even gods and men
Ibrahim (00:27:38) : wow you are so credible
Ibrahim (00:27:53) : the please believe this:
Ibrahim (00:27:59) : Nature doesn't create houses
Ibrahim (00:28:02) : clear?
Sooth (00:28:27) : Well I'm not saying I think New York grew in a forest
Sooth (00:29:29) : I'm saying nature gave rise to wood and mud and brick, nature gave rise to us, the builders. If we weren't here, then no a house couldn
't magically grow like grass
Ibrahim (00:30:11) : nature is the sustract where part of the creation grows. in fact!
Sooth (00:30:36) : S
ustract?
Sooth (00:30:55) : I don't know what you mean by sustract
Ibrahim (00:31:03) : sorry strata
Sooth (00:31:17) : Lol I dont' know what that is either
Sooth (00:31:24) : Hang on lemme google it
Ibrahim (00:31:26) : one second
Sooth (00:31:37) : Sure
Ibrahim (00:32:13) : 1.
a layer of material, naturally or artificially formed, often one of a number of parallel layers one upon another: a stratum of ancient foundations.
2.
one of a number of portions or divisions likened to layers or levels: an allegory with many strata of meaning.
3.
Geology . a single bed of sedimentary rock, generally consisting of one kind of matter representing continuous deposition.
Sooth (00:32:34) : Okay
Sooth (00:32:37) : Thanks
Sooth (00:32:43) : I've learned a new word
Ibrahim (00:33:17) : and I've met a person believing that nature can build houses
Ibrahim (00:33:29) : made possible by the internet!
Sooth (00:33:58) : I made clear what I meant
Ibrahim (00:34:18) : so you mean you would not accept such claim
Sooth (00:35:19) : Like I said, I don't think a house could just grow like grass, you need people to build it, I said that. I donj't see what any of this has to do with me learning about your religion
Ibrahim (00:35:54) : great
Ibrahim (00:36:09) : your point of view explains why nature is not creator
Sooth (00:37:11) : No it doesn't. Nature created what built the house. Ipsofacto, it's reasonable to say nature created it. This is what my rekigion teaches, that all is one and all is connected
Sooth (00:38:24) : I guess islam is really different to Ásatrú *shrug*
Ibrahim (00:38:24) : the fact that a man can not be alive and dead in the same time, allo us to know that there is a SINGLE, not multiple WILL
Sooth (00:39:05) : Is that part of your religious teachings
?
Ibrahim (00:39:18) : indeed
Ibrahim (00:39:25) : there is only one God
Sooth (00:39:49) : Waitk, you said earlier you didn't have a god
Sooth (00:39:53) : You keep saying different things
Ibrahim (00:39:55) : so it is pointless to say that there is a Christian deity, a Jewish deity and a Muslim deity
Sooth (00:40:05) : Is this a real place to learn about oslam or are you fucking with me?
Ibrahim (00:40:17) : now you are misquotating me sir =)
Ibrahim (00:40:40) : please watch your vocabulary sir
Sooth (00:40:49) : You said there isn't a muslim god
Sooth (00:41:13) : So opn the one hand, islam doesn't have a god, on the other you keep talking about your god
Ibrahim (00:41:34) : there is not a Muslim god, but a God
Sooth (00:42:08) : Okay, can you explain that to me please because I'm lost
Ibrahim (00:42:08) : islam is a system of life, revealed by God to humankind
Ibrahim (00:42:34) : when you limit God to a brand or name, then you are wrong
Sooth (00:42:58) : I'm not, I'm trying to figure out what you mean. It's pretty alien to me
Ibrahim (00:43:27) : when I say colombian coffee, what do you think of?
Sooth (00:43:53) : Sipping coffee in a café in the South American heat
Sooth (00:44:22) : Music, booze, Amazon rainforest, drug lords, cocain, lots of things
Ibrahim (00:44:22) : what kind of coffee?
Sooth (00:44:42) : Strong, with milk and sugar
Ibrahim (00:44:55) : grown where?
Sooth (00:44:58) : Maybe kemo
Ibrahim (00:45:00) : =D
Sooth (00:45:11) : *lemon
Sooth (00:45:16) : Grown locally I guess
Ibrahim (00:45:45) : when you say Jewish god, then you are talking about:
Sooth (00:46:01) : Yaweh, I think it's called
Ibrahim (00:46:12) : option a. a god created by the jews
option b. a god according to the jew interpretation
Ibrahim (00:46:22) : that's why we don't say a Muslim god
Ibrahim (00:46:42) : because such definitions do not fit God
Sooth (00:48:00) : I understand that, what I meant by it like if you'd of said Jesus then I would of thought Christianity, maybe some biblical teachings, if you'd of said Krishna I'd of though Hinduism and some of their teachings. Know what I mean?
Sooth (00:48:23) : It helps narrow down definitins when you're learning something new
Ibrahim (00:48:35) : that is a misconception I am trying to clear for you =)
Sooth (00:49:06) : Like I don't think my gods are trapped someone in a particular place, I just understand them a certain way so I can explain my beliefs t
o people
Sooth (00:49:34) : Okay, so you don't define god
Ibrahim (00:49:49) : who is the god who grants life to you?
Sooth (00:50:02) : So you don't have a name for him or a gender or a holy book or anything? I thought you had a book called cran
Sooth (00:50:28) : Well ultimately all life comes from the All Father, the Sustainer
Ibrahim (00:50:38) : I have given you two names of God so far
Ibrahim (00:50:54) : The Creator, The Allmighty
Ibrahim (00:51:12) : who is the god who grants life to you?
Sooth (00:51:16) : Those are definitions I use to make my beliefs clear
Ibrahim (00:51:32) : I see
Sooth (00:51:33) : Dísir decide the fates
Ibrahim (00:51:48) : we Muslims also called God The Sustainer
Ibrahim (00:51:56) : but we don't call him father
Ibrahim (00:52:08) : since a father is a being who begets
Ibrahim (00:52:25) : begetting is a symptom of weakness
Sooth (00:52:46) : Never heard that before. Why is it weak?
Ibrahim (00:53:36) : what happens if all blue whales stop begetting?
Sooth (00:53:50) : They go extinct
Ibrahim (00:54:04) : therefore beggeting is a NEED
Ibrahim (00:54:15) : an allmighty God doesn't have any needs
Sooth (00:55:34) : Well, need is more a mortal thing. Blue whales aren't gods, they need in a way the gods don't
Ibrahim (00:56:12) : any deity that begets stops being a deity
Ibrahim (00:56:28) : that is our belief
Sooth (00:56:42) : Strange belief
Ibrahim (00:57:00) : and as you rightly say, begetting is an act of the creation
Sooth (00:57:07) : So we were created by this deity in your beliefs, right?
Ibrahim (00:57:12) : the Creator doesn't have any need to beget
Sooth (00:57:26) : So where do you think we come from?
Ibrahim (00:58:45) : as the Quran says: I come from a clot of blood, and before from the semen, and before from man, who came in the same way.
Sooth (00:59:03) : So we come from god's blood?
Ibrahim (00:59:01) : This is what the Allmighty has decreed
Ibrahim (00:59:09) : no
Ibrahim (00:59:26) : the first man was created out of mud
Ibrahim (00:59:43) : then the above process comes up
Sooth (01:00:00) : Hios blood gave us (the mud) life?
Ibrahim (01:00:12) : there is no such concept as "god's blood" in Islam
Sooth (01:00:32) : So where did that clot of blood we were created from come from?
Ibrahim (01:00:50) : from semen
Ibrahim (01:00:54) : please read above =)
Sooth (01:01:18) : So god loved the earth, and the union created man?
Ibrahim (01:01:24) : when semen finds an egg, then it becomes a clot of blood
Ibrahim (01:01:33) : excuse me?
Sooth (01:01:45) : Didn't you saw before your god doesn't begat?
Ibrahim (01:01:54) : and I hold it
Ibrahim (01:02:06) : now you are trying to misquote again!
Sooth (01:02:11) : Ohh, so that's why he doesn't want or need anything! He gave us his godhood to create us
Ibrahim (01:02:12) : lol typical of you huh?
Sooth (01:02:16) : That's rather interesting
Sooth (01:02:27) : I'm not misquoting
Ibrahim (01:02:36) : yes you are
Sooth (01:02:45) : This is how it's coming across to me I'm not trying to be a dick
Sooth (01:02:56) : I have no clue about islam, this is alien to me and I'm trying to understand
Sooth (01:02:59) : I really am
Ibrahim (01:02:57) : second bad word sorry
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