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Theme Changer

 Topic: How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?

 (Read 20390 times)
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  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #180 - September 15, 2014, 11:49 PM

    Quote
    Re the pink thing, I don't believe that quite has as many harmful effects as the hijab at a young age and the like. I mean, it'll influence kids, sure. Everything does, they're like sponges. But it's hard to compare them beyond that, I think.


    I'm definitely NOT saying that pink has been as harmful as the hijab, but just that I can't imagine a pre-teen girl would chose to wear pink for any reason other than looking attractive. And if some pre-teen girls choose to wear pink because they like to look attractive, then may some pre-teen girls choose the hijab for the same reason.

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #181 - September 15, 2014, 11:53 PM

    If a girl is choosing to wear something pink and is very young, I'd place my bets on her just liking the color and thinking that that dress/shirt/whatever is pretty.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #182 - September 16, 2014, 12:02 AM

    Quote
    If a girl is choosing to wear something pink and is very young, I'd place my bets on her just liking the color and thinking that that dress/shirt/whatever is pretty.


    I sincerely hope that you don't take this like I've singled you out for an argument, because I don't really know where I stand on the topic myself, I'm was just chucking random ideas around because I'm bored right now...  grin12

    My life of thought was just that: why would a young girl choose to dress "pretty"? I know it's human to want to be attractive (clean, fit, healthy), but is it innate human nature to want to be "pretty"?

    I'm not really the best person to be asking that question, even. I never wanted to be pretty, only powerful. I was very power hungry as a kid. I was hell bent on world domination, and spent my teenage years playing war games on the computer and watching braindead Arnold Schwarzenegger action movies.

    So, maybe I should shut up on the topic?

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #183 - September 16, 2014, 12:09 AM

    What? No. I don't know much about this stuff, either. Grin

    I just have known little girls to sincerely like pink for one reason or another and want pink pencils, pink backpack, pink clothes, whatever. My little sister, when offered a say in the matter, had her room painted a pastel pink during her childhood. So I don't know, if I see kids who are active in choosing their wardrobes, I tend to think it's just them liking certain colors or styles, not that they're trying to attract people.

    I guess that kind of loops back around to what you were saying, sort of. I do think most people like to feel attractive, or "pretty," but it's possible that it's just because it's pleasing in the same way that having a house/room that's aesthetically appealing to you is. I don't know, man. Psychology. People are different, brains, blah blah.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #184 - September 16, 2014, 12:24 AM

    Quote
    What? No. I don't know much about this stuff, either. Grin

    I just have known little girls to sincerely like pink for one reason or another and want pink pencils, pink backpack, pink clothes, whatever. My little sister, when offered a say in the matter, had her room painted a pastel pink during her childhood. So I don't know, if I see kids who are active in choosing their wardrobes, I tend to think it's just them liking certain colors or styles, not that they're trying to attract people.

    I guess that kind of loops back around to what you were saying, sort of. I do think most people like to feel attractive, or "pretty," but it's possible that it's just because it's pleasing in the same way that having a house/room that's aesthetically appealing to you is. I don't know, man. Psychology. People are different, brains, blah blah.


     Smiley  Smiley  Smiley

    I was just thinking that maybe little girls pick up on the notion that being pretty is a good thing for girls to be, just as modest is good thing for Muslim girls to be. But you're completely right that many little girls could well just find pink an aesthetically appealing color.

    It's hard to tell what's too sexual or not. Maybe we should just let children explore and decide for themselves. If they enjoy wearing pink or even wearing the hijab, maybe we should let them? But when they no longer want to do these things, then we should also let them stop.

    At 12 years old, I was very skinny and did a lot of exercise. I had a bit of a six-pack. In summer, I wore a lot of crop tops to show it off. People could argue that I was being sexualized too, by the media. Yet, I saw it as showing off my hard work. I was so darn proud of that six-pack.

    Who knows?  Smiley

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #185 - September 16, 2014, 12:29 AM

    Liking pink isn't "sexual" though in any way. That is more related to gender roles, which is a whole different can of worms.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #186 - September 16, 2014, 12:31 AM

    I never promote the idea of choosing for a woman based on my opinion. Let women choose for themselves. I am more concerned about how to deal with women when they ask my opinion of how they look and how does their clothing look on them. I have yet to find an answer which is nets a positive result for me

    "You look beautiful" "I look ugly, why didn't you tell me!"

    "It makes you look fat" "How could you say that!"

    "Its fine" "Just fine?!"

    So far my only solutions are to change the topic "Hockey game is starting" or just to mumble something unintelligible and hope she hears what she wants to hear. God should of never a books for humanity. He should of made a guide for men dealing with women.

     whistling2

  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #187 - September 16, 2014, 12:47 AM

    Liking pink isn't "sexual" though in any way. That is more related to gender roles, which is a whole different can of worms.


    I was just thinking that pink is heavily associated with female weakness. And female weakness is usually considered sexy.

    Quote from: Bogart
    I never promote the idea of choosing for a woman based on my opinion. Let women choose for themselves. I am more concerned about how to deal with women when they ask my opinion of how they look and how does their clothing look on them. I have yet to find an answer which is nets a positive result for me

    "You look beautiful" "I look ugly, why didn't you tell me!"

    "It makes you look fat" "How could you say that!"

    "Its fine" "Just fine?!"

    So far my only solutions are to change the topic "Hockey game is starting" or just to mumble something unintelligible and hope she hears what she wants to hear. God should of never a books for humanity. He should of made a guide for men dealing with women.


    LOL! When a woman asks you "How do I look in this?" try the answer "You'd look better if you took it all off". If she has a sense of humor, it'll work. If she doesn't have a sense of humor, she's not worth your time anyway Smiley

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #188 - September 16, 2014, 12:49 AM

    It is reverse sexualisation (burkas, hijabs, niqabs).


    No. It is blatant sexualization. Because donning it claims that the body beneath it is too sexy to be in public space.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #189 - September 16, 2014, 01:00 AM

    I was just thinking that pink is heavily associated with female weakness. And female weakness is usually considered sexy.



    Why is pink associated with female weakness? I never heard that before. Also I never heard that weakness was sexy. I know it is attractive. To predators.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #190 - September 16, 2014, 01:09 AM

    I was just thinking that pink is heavily associated with female weakness. And female weakness is usually considered sexy.

     Huh?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #191 - September 16, 2014, 01:21 AM

    Quote from: Three
    Why is pink associated with female weakness? I never heard that before. Also I never heard that weakness was sexy. I know it is attractive. To predators.


    If a boy wears a girly pink shirt, he's told (disapprovingly) that he looks like a girl. It's bad for a boy to look like a girl because girl's are weaker. It's the same reason people tell boys "Don't cry like a baby", because weakness is bad for boys.

    A woman who wears a lot of pink is considered a "girly girl", meaning she's a bit more fragile (ie. weaker).

    People often say to tomboys, "Wow, I didn't think I'd ever see you wearing pink!" Because pink is considered to be a color not worn by rough girls.

    Hilary Clinton was advised to wear a baby pink suit to dismiss any concerns that she might be a feminist.

    As for weakness being attractive, Britney Spears built her whole career on "weakness is sexy", and many, many people found it attractive. In her first DVD concert, there's a part where Britney is played by a little girl sitting on her father's knee. Very kinky. There's also a part where's she's caught in a net, among other things.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's wrong if people are attracted to weakness. There's a predator inside all of us. As long as it's kept in fantasy, it's fine.

    Anyway, just my thoughts. I'm probably full of crap.

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #192 - September 16, 2014, 01:39 AM

    I always thought the reason that boys weren't supposed to wear pink in a couple of countries was because those countries had begun to associate pink and blue as being gender-specific, and that boys were not to wear pink because it was not a ¨boy color¨, and some parents are afraid of their children identifying in any way with the other gender. I have heard parents make the argument that they want their child's gender to be evident in public, so there are no mistakes made in addressing them.  Not because it is confused with a smaller physical stature or less physical strength.

    I don't really see how your other examples play outside of these strict gender lines, and into weakness, at all. The fish that I have had to net are the ones that fight so badly that I cannot get them into the boat. You don't have to net a quiet fish. They just sit on the line and do what you want.  It's the fighters that require netting.  I have never equated femininity with weakness. Are you sure this is a common perception in the West?



    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #193 - September 16, 2014, 02:00 AM

    Gentlemen have always worn pink.


  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #194 - September 16, 2014, 02:21 AM

    Quote
    I always thought the reason that boys weren't supposed to wear pink in a couple of countries was because those countries had begun to associate pink and blue as being gender-specific, and that boys were not to wear pink because it was not a ¨boy color¨, and some parents are afraid of their children identifying in any way with the other gender. I have heard parents make the argument that they want their child's gender to be evident in public, so there are no mistakes made in addressing them.  Not because it is confused with a smaller physical stature or less physical strength.

    I don't really see how your other examples play outside of these strict gender lines, and into weakness, at all. The fish that I have had to net are the ones that fight so badly that I cannot get them into the boat. You don't have to net a quiet fish. They just sit on the line and do what you want.  It's the fighters that require netting.  I have never equated femininity with weakness. Are you sure this is a common perception in the West?


    I state again that I only speak for myself, and since I'm an idiot, it's probably wise to discard my ramblings Smiley ... With that said:

    While, like you said, parents usually don't want their children identifying with the opposite sex, I think that weakness is considered very disadvantageous for a boy. Not just physical weakness, but mental weakness -"Don't cry like a baby", or even  better, when they say "Don't cry like a girl".

    Roughness in girls is likewise considered disadvantageous. Tattoos and muscles are much less acceptable on females in society than on men.

    You could argue that society simply does not like people to cross gender lines, blur the boundaries of their sex, and take on traits associated with the opposite sex, but since being male is almost always associated with being strong, it's difficult for women to take on any strong traits without being seen as masculine and no longer feminine.  

    Tattoos, muscles, wearing camo, an interest in violent things, etc. would all be considered masculinizing for a woman -because they are associated with strength. An interest in science is associated with men but would not be considered masculinizing on a woman because it's not associated with strength.

    A certain amount of strength is acceptable for women in the context of sex. For example, a woman brandishing guns and wearing hunting gear is still feminine if she is doing it in a sexy manner, but otherwise it's unfeminine (ie. too strong).

    And yes, I do think that Britney Spears great success hinged on her image of "weakness" as the vulnerable, virginal teen sweetheart (Hit me baby once more time? I'm a slave 4 U?). I think many people are sexually attracted to weakness.

    Quote from: David
    Gentlemen have always worn pink.


    Yes, "Gentle"men have always worn pink, the emphasis on the "gentle" part. They are wearing pink to put emphasis on a softer side. Men can have a soft side, as long as it isn't too soft, because then they're acting "like women".

    Just my dumb thoughts. I probably don't make much sense since I didn't sleep last night! I have a habit of rambling... it's only gotten worse since I learnt to touch type so now my fingers can keep up with my rambling brain. Well, I'll shut up now...

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #195 - September 16, 2014, 03:22 AM

    The women where I live are tattooed from their necks to their feet, even in their forties, and they kill and butcher deer for sport as well as meat. The personal ads here from men are requesting women who are ¨comfortable in the outdoors¨, which means that women who shriek over bats and mosquitoes and bears are a nuisance and need not apply. These locals have no patience for needy and helpless women. I agree. Nothing is worse than trying to scare a bear off and then turning around to find that your panicked, useless female campmates have run off in the only vehicle and left you stranded. Which has happened to me. I think it must depend on where you are.

    No offense to women who freak out over bears. Just stay away from bear country, then.   

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #196 - September 16, 2014, 03:28 AM

    Having never come across a wild bear I would probably freak out as well. How do you not freak out when coming across a 2-3 meter tall predator that can run and catch you, climb trees, is so much stronger than you and has claws that can take your head off with one swipe? What if the bear is hungry?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #197 - September 16, 2014, 03:34 AM

    Quod, they don't bother you unless they are angry or hungry. Freaking out will not help. I have been scaring off bears since I was a kid. You have to make a lot of noise. If that doesn't work you throw rocks. If that fails then you have to curl up in a ball on the ground and not make any noise at all, even if they maul you. Luckily I have not been mauled.

    Mountain lions are much worse. I lived in lion country for a few years and I was terrified one would grab one of the kids. I never went hiking there.

    Coyotes hurt more kids than bears or lions do, and they often weigh less than seventy pounds. Know where the real threat lies. Coydogs and coyotes.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #198 - September 16, 2014, 04:23 AM

    The women where I live are tattooed from their necks to their feet, even in their forties, and they kill and butcher deer for sport as well as meat. The personal ads here from men are requesting women who are ¨comfortable in the outdoors¨, which means that women who shriek over bats and mosquitoes and bears are a nuisance and need not apply. These locals have no patience for needy and helpless women. I agree. Nothing is worse than trying to scare a bear off and then turning around to find that your panicked, useless female campmates have run off in the only vehicle and left you stranded. Which has happened to me. I think it must depend on where you are.

    No offense to women who freak out over bears. Just stay away from bear country, then.   


    LOL! From what you've written, it definitely sounds like it depends on where you live. I've never had any experiences like THAT!

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #199 - September 16, 2014, 04:39 AM

    I have to say that back when I were a lad, and movies always used to show female characters doing dumb things like falling arse up when everyone was running away from a tyrannosaurus or whatever, I could never figure out why anyone would bother risking their own life to go back and get the dumb damsel in distress. Good dinosaur bait. Better to just leave her and keep running. Win. Afro

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #200 - September 16, 2014, 04:51 AM

    If that fails then you have to curl up in a ball on the ground and not make any noise at all, even if they maul you.

    The fuck?! I don't want to get eaten! All your advise brings to mind is me ending up like this.

    Warning graphic

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #201 - September 16, 2014, 05:31 AM

    Quod, can you not post such a graphic photo without warning? Put it in a link after a warning if you must post it at all, please.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #202 - September 16, 2014, 05:32 AM

    Sorry, edited.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #203 - September 16, 2014, 05:33 AM

    thanks.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #204 - September 16, 2014, 08:14 AM

    Fn wimps.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #205 - September 16, 2014, 08:20 AM

    No. It is blatant sexualization. Because donning it claims that the body beneath it is too sexy to be in public space.


    Hence my clarification below

    Like it sexualises the female body by actively trying to desexualise it by covering it. In effect if any 'not allowed' part of the body is seen it automatically becomes 'meat' and 'sexy'.


    Now is the question; is sexualisation bad and when/where/who should it occur to?
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #206 - September 16, 2014, 08:38 AM

    "Mummy mummy please buy me that beautiful pink burqa in Primark!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #207 - September 16, 2014, 08:43 AM

    "Mummy mummy please buy me that beautiful pink burqa in Primark!


    Haha!

    Pink Primurqas, coming to a store near you.
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #208 - September 16, 2014, 08:47 AM

    Quote
    No. It is blatant sexualization. Because donning it claims that the body beneath it is too sexy to be in public space.


    And is not the logical next step to report it to Police, NSPCC etc as child sexual abuse?

     (I just realised CSE - exploitation - is being used by Police etc.  Is it or is it not abuse?)

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • How do we choose what is appropriate for women to wear?
     Reply #209 - September 16, 2014, 08:48 AM

    I haven't dared google it but I have a terrible feeling it already exists.....

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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