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Theme Changer

 Topic: the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'

 (Read 24254 times)
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  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #30 - March 20, 2014, 02:01 AM

    The Quranic teaching is to cover your chest, with the fabric that many claim was commonly used over the head to shield from sun.
    The tradition most commonly cited for covering up one's identity is from when one of the Prophet's wives was recognized coming back from using the bathroom area, and someone heckled her or was talking about seeing her there, and so he told them to cover outside of the house to prevent them from being recognized doing such commonplace or embarrassing things. Then all the Muslim ladies had to follow suit. And yes, about slavery, too.

    Ohh I remembered right? dance

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #31 - March 20, 2014, 02:04 AM

    The Quranic teaching is to cover your chest


    First fight with the husband was about this. Memories.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #32 - March 20, 2014, 02:18 AM

    Girls Gone Wild would be much less fun if people adhered to it.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #33 - March 20, 2014, 02:21 AM

    First fight with the husband was about this. Memories.

    You wanted to walk around with your tits out?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #34 - March 20, 2014, 02:27 AM

    Apparently that is legal just one state over from me.   Grin

    But no, he was trying to say that the Quran very clearly stated that women have to be entirely covered except for the face. I kept trying to say that the only clear thing was that they had to draw a cover around their chest. Hours of our life wasted.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #35 - March 20, 2014, 02:33 AM

    Read hours as houris for some reason.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #36 - March 21, 2014, 01:16 PM

    The Quran says only about covering the bosom. The ahadith provides the interpretation that the cover must extend from the head and must hide the face. @Three- That perv was the hot-headed male chauvinist Omar. I also call him peeping Tom and eve teaser due to the story you mentioned. Some say he was proud that the islamic purdah existed for him. So much for the Muslim women who says we are covering for God Roll Eyes.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #37 - March 21, 2014, 01:39 PM

    ................. @Three- That perv was the hot-headed male chauvinist Omar. I also call him peeping Tom and eve teaser due to the story you mentioned. Some say he was proud that the islamic purdah existed for him. ..............

    well that guy  Omar. PBUH had hold on prophet of Islam., Apart from peeping tom, he was also father in-law of Prophet
    ..........So much for the Muslim women who says we are covering for God Roll Eyes.

    well the god of Islam is "HE"  .. heeeeeeeee..... the male .. the dick head.. dick in the head,  so women better cover from this male .

    And that goes to many fools who  follow silly religious edicts..  Well on that burqa last week  news from London says  Store detectives believe notorious shoplifter Annette Daniel now using burqa to prevent identification as she raids stores


    gang boss Annette Daniel
    Quote
    SHOPLIFTING gang boss Annette Daniel is suspected of wearing a burqa to hide her identity from store detectives. High street security chiefs believe Daniel, 52, and her team of thieves have hidden behind burqas and niqabs – the Islamic facial veil – as their faces are so well known.

    Daniel – jailed last week for her part in a £2000 shoplifting spree – is already known to wear wigs, scarves and other props to disguise her appearance. One security source said: “There has been at least one case reported where two suspected shoplifters were wearing burqas. We strongly suspect it was this gang.

    some times burqas help women and men to escape jail terms..

     And Rafia  Zakaria writes a woderful article in today's Dawn on how Pakistan is changing with time getting worse with time by  considering purdah again, (and yes the rape of girls going to college, the beating of women professionals, the banning of women from one or another arena of public life equates to just that) it may be useful to consider, how patriarchy will once again employ women to do its dirtiest work.   let us read few nuggets from her..



    Quote
    ......a widowed aunt who relies on pity, a mother on a detached other worldliness, myriad others, cousins, sisters, grandmothers, all possess their own strategies of feminine warfare. The world of purdah is one of women sentenced to powerlessness and self-loathing, whose survival depends on such underhanded techniques as they can muster, all intent on achieving some minimal control over the hearts and minds of men, who are ostensibly deemed their guardians and protectors.......


    Now that Pakistan seems to be at the cusp of considering purdah again, (and yes the rape of girls going to college, the beating of women professionals, the banning of women from one or another arena of public life equates to just that) it may be useful to consider, how patriarchy will once again employ women to do its dirtiest work.

    It will be mother’s that forbid daughters, and sisters that sabotage sisters and so on. The architecture of future limitations will utilise the very women it seeks to imprison; the future captives will construct their own cages. As the building is underway, perhaps not yet complete, some women can consider how the loss of sisterhood among women, the loss of empathy and kindness, the loss of refusing to judge another woman’s choices, castigating another woman’s words, is the mechanism of control that will enable a future of further darkness, of retrogression and seclusion.....

    ...........well read the rest at link..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #38 - March 21, 2014, 05:46 PM

    What do you think is the real reason for an increase on rape in certain parts of the world?

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #39 - March 21, 2014, 05:54 PM

    Each part of the world probably has different contributing factors in different proportions, confusedagno. That is why it is often a hard issue to address. Often, the culture or the societal view of women and rape has a lot to do with it.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #40 - March 21, 2014, 06:00 PM

    The view that you can get away with it, imho.
    but hey look, we now have a magical solution,  a "God" exists and he will punish all rapists but cannot solve real world issues.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #41 - March 21, 2014, 06:01 PM

    But there are many more mediating variables, the one that I highlighted is one of the prominent ones.  The issue as mentioned by lua, requires a holistic approach to understand.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #42 - March 21, 2014, 06:07 PM

    i think it is the dark side of the internet that is the cause, it has created a culture of perversion that has also influenced the general public, pornography, sex slavery, rape has increased through this medium..
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #43 - March 21, 2014, 06:15 PM

    Some people say so, Suki, but I have not yet found anything to definitively place the blame on things like this. I certainly would not say either way that it is the primary or only contributor, and especially not in countries where the state of human rights for women are already poor. For those, we have more obvious problems to address before pornography rolls around as a main instigator.

    Also, Qtain, for some reason what you said reminded me of the actual worst thing that has ever happened on the Athiest Experience:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Dftb0OhH0
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #44 - March 21, 2014, 06:25 PM

    Hi Lua, yes you are right, i wrote it wrong, i meant to say the internet is one cause of increase in these acts and not the primary cause..  true

    x   
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #45 - March 21, 2014, 06:28 PM

    I dread to use the term, but it's almost the hard problem of consciousness, these are my thoughts anyways. We can connect a rapist to electroencephalogram or another machine and analyse his brain waves but we can't subjectively tell what he thinks about rape. This is why we can't really attribute just one cause to it, as lua has said.

    BTW, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, THAT CALLER HAS TO BE SOME SORT OF PERVERSE POE.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #46 - March 21, 2014, 06:30 PM

    Just an example of how human rights, especially that of women and minors, can be compromised or justified away by those who are as far gone as him with religion as his only moral compass.  wacko
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #47 - March 21, 2014, 06:33 PM

    Yes but you are forgetting that God had said that it is ok, so it is ok.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #48 - March 21, 2014, 06:38 PM

    I think that particular guy was trying to employ that justification some apologists occasionally do where people who are punished or sent to Hell prematurely were actually souls that would one day have earned the punishment, and that God was just preemptively striking a la The Minority Report.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #49 - March 21, 2014, 06:40 PM

    The majority of rapes in the world are committed in the privacy of the home by perpetrators the victim actually knows, like a partner or even a family member (incest). A very small part of rapes are assault rapes by unknows perpetrators, even though the media indulges every time an incident of extreme violence commited towards women occurs, it really gives you a distorted picture of reality.

    Either way, rape is just a consequence of a much bigger problem, and that has nothing to do with women dressing "provocatively" or "mixing" with men or being "too flirtatious". The issue here is the subordination of women and men's control over the female body and sexuality. Interestingly enough, violence commited by men towards women are more rampant in societies where women's rights are highly questioned and where women do not have access to financial and social independence. Islam is a big part of that. The very idea and concept of "qawwamah" maintains this status quo; men take care of women financially (and "protects" them), but in return the women become his property and must be subordinate to him. This is why nushooz commited by women always has to do with them not "obeying" their master. The division between "female" and "male" work and "obligations" further maintains women's subordination and men's ability and privilige to commit violence against women. Women are not allowed to take part in society as men, they are occupied with typically "female" tedious low-status work while men are not to be bothered. Thus, men have more leisure time  and decision making. Women who do not have access to power cannot influence their own lives.

    Statistics may point to there being more rapes committed, or more accurately said more reported, in European countries, but that has more to do with the fact that the same stigma isn't attached to the victim as well as the fact that authorities take these types of crimes seriously. This is not the case in a lot of other countries like Pakistan, or India, or Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon...

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #50 - March 21, 2014, 06:42 PM

    I saw an interesting apologist argument once, it was more logically sound than the normal ones, but still flawed.

    " We don't expect a human judge to show mercy in his judgement, so why should God?".

    But when we use hermeneutics, that argument crumbles.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #51 - March 21, 2014, 06:43 PM

    Hi Cornflower, how are you?

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #52 - March 21, 2014, 06:46 PM

    The issue here is the subordination of women and men's control over the female body and sexuality. Interestingly enough, violence commited by men towards women are more rampant in societies where women's rights are highly questioned and where women do not have access to financial and social independence. Islam is a big part of that. The very idea and concept of "qawwamah" maintains this status quo; men take care of women financially (and "protects" them), but in return the women become his property and must be subordinate to him. This is why nushooz commited by women always has to do with them not "obeying" their master. The division between "female" and "male" work and "obligations" further maintains women's subordination and men's ability and privilige to commit violence against women.


    Exactly. This is what you're looking for in these situations, Suki.

    And, Qtian, I'm also at the point where the only argument that ever trips me up in religion is one where the person totally accepts the god of their religion as flawed and immoral.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #53 - March 21, 2014, 06:48 PM

    It has nothing to do with mercy, but with justice and that the actual punishment matching the crime committed. There are a number of factors that must be weighed in in order to establish a reasonable punishment, but disbelieving in allah who has never made an appearance and who hasn't given any evidence or proof beyond reasonable doubt about his existence is in principle a victimless crime that has no affect on society whatsoever (except perhaps making it a better world for not implementing shariah law and turning to humanism and democracy instead...). To be burned eternally for this is just insane.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #54 - March 21, 2014, 06:51 PM

    awesome posts everyone, especially you Cornflower

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #55 - March 21, 2014, 06:54 PM

    The one that trips me up is where they stem too deep into philosophy. I do have a knowledge of philosophy so it irritates me, because at best you can provide a deductive argument for the existence of God, you cannot attribute that God to your religion.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #56 - March 21, 2014, 06:55 PM

    It has nothing to do with mercy, but with justice and that the actual punishment matching the crime committed. There are a number of factors that must be weighed in in order to establish a reasonable punishment, but disbelieving in allah who has never made an appearance and who hasn't given any evidence or proof beyond reasonable doubt about his existence is in principle a victimless crime that has no affect on society whatsoever (except perhaps making it a better world for not implementing shariah law and turning to humanism and democracy instead...). To be burned eternally for this is just insane.


    The variant I heard was to do with mercy anyway, but it was a general argument. Christian specific ones would avoid the perfect justice/mercy paradox at all costs.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #57 - March 21, 2014, 07:00 PM


    " We don't expect a human judge to show mercy in his judgement, so why should God?".




     can use this exact same sentence to refute islam, a mother wouldnt punish her child by burning him/her so y should God?

    anyway reason im asking these qs is I'm so use to people saying islam will solve all this, I wanted to see what the other side had to say

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #58 - March 21, 2014, 07:01 PM

    But confusedagno, that idea can be sidestepped by apologists Cheesy
    They will ask, why are you attributing human features to Allah? Only Allah knows what Allah can do.



    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #59 - March 21, 2014, 07:07 PM

    i know lol, hence the confusion

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
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