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 Topic: the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'

 (Read 24632 times)
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  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #150 - March 23, 2014, 05:13 PM

    I somewhat recall once reading the twitter or the website of a woman who called herself the feminist salafi.  Roll Eyes
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #151 - March 23, 2014, 05:22 PM

    I know alot of feminist salafis, theres a page on fb called the salafi feminist, interesting chick you should check it out
    I know it is ironic they call them selve feminist, but again I think they truly believe that they are,

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #152 - March 23, 2014, 05:29 PM

    Actually, Cornflower, this statement has caused me to feel a great and overwhelming affection for you, and I agree, wholeheartedly.


    co-signing this Cornflower appreciation


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #153 - March 23, 2014, 05:44 PM

    .............the salafi feminist,............



    Quote
    Zainab bint Younus aka AnonyMouse al-Majnoonah aka The Salafi Feminist is a nomadic young woman with big dreams, a small daughter, and a penchant for too many pseudonyms. She blogs at http://www.TheSalafiFeminist.blogspot.com  


    Common confusedagno  get her over here., we will show her the right ways how to be feminist..   Ha! so many avatars ...  Zainab bint Younus aka AnonyMouse al-Majnoonah aka The Salafi Feminist ..   She sounds like goddess..

    we will transform her from "Salafi Feminist" to "Salafi goddess"  

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #154 - March 23, 2014, 05:46 PM

    Yes, that is exactly who I was thinking of. Thanks, Yeezevee!
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #155 - March 23, 2014, 05:47 PM

    @ confusedango and lua
    I agree, they truly believe what they are saying. And browsing through her blog, I see that she selectively reads the ahadeeth in order to fit in with her "feminist" interpretation. I did the same thing, or at least I tried. It's a good thing that people are trying to reform Islamic interpretations, it's just that it doesn't work in real life. The problem is that there are as many other authentic ahadeeth which all annul her claims of equality and justice. It doesn't matter if she takes one hadith and gives a new "correct" understanding of it, while there are many other explicit sayings and verses that all divide men and women into two very different categories with different set of rights and obligation. As I read yesterday on the topic of men's violence against women, when you have different ideas about male/masculine and female/feminine, that automatically gives different sets of rights in practice. With different sets of rights and freedoms, there can never be equality and justice between the two groups.

    @billy, three
    Thank you so much guys, I really appreciate your appreciation =)

    @yeezevee

    No, no, no that is shirk my friend. I don't think she'll appreciate it as much as we would like to  Cheesy I believe she can very well be a cool gal to hang around with, and she would have certainly been a great friend to discuss all our "feminist" ideas reassuring each other that Islam doesn't really subjugate women. The problem is, a lot of the things she's doing and the way she dresses would be harshly reprimanded by scholars who would actually use authentic texts to refute her Roll Eyes

    As has already been said, it's ironic that's what it is.

    EDIT: My clothing was also criticized during the time my feminist ideas began to grow "out of control". I mean, who did I think I was exposing my hands and wearing bright and playful colors like red and purple on my hijab and niqab. And how dared I expect Muslim men to talk and address me directly without having to go through the "oh so holy" procedure with having their wives be messengers. And pleeaaasssee, how dare I have the audacity to express my dissatisfaction directly without lowering my gaze and murmuring quietly when my classroom was once again occupied by the VIP shaykh just because he thought I could use the smaller stinky classroom since his class was much more important than mine.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #156 - March 23, 2014, 06:11 PM

    lol Yeezee, she does look badass hehe. It amazes me how one has to go through such great lengths to make Islam suitable to them, sadly my brother does the same thing. And then he tells me Islam is easy..... If it was so easy why do you have to study it so intricately to find loopholes that fit your lifestyle?Huh???


    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #157 - March 23, 2014, 09:32 PM

    Actually, Cornflower, this statement has caused me to feel a great and overwhelming affection for you, and I agree, wholeheartedly. I don't think you need to apologize for anything at all.

    This.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #158 - March 23, 2014, 09:44 PM

    lol Yeezee, she does look badass hehe. It amazes me how one has to go through such great lengths to make Islam suitable to them, sadly my brother does the same thing. And then he tells me Islam is easy..... If it was so easy why do you have to study it so intricately to find loopholes that fit your lifestyle?Huh???


    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #159 - March 23, 2014, 09:49 PM

     parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #160 - March 24, 2014, 12:11 AM


    Oh yaa....  don't worry here is the response for that jesusandmo.net

    Jihad in Ukrain

     النفير_لأوكرانيا النفيررر النفيررر وجوب الجهاد في اوكرانيا ..
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhW2lq4CMAEMLwB.jpg

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #161 - March 24, 2014, 02:57 PM



    the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'

    by lua


    Back in the day, I, too, was a Muslim feminist - like many “revert” women are. Like many revert women need to be.

    In person, I was charismatic and a quick talker. I had a healthy supply of hadith and Quranic quotes up my sleeve. I had historical examples. I was ready to go at any moment.

    I'd patiently listen to a non-Muslim critic cite things like the veil, things like the mahrem system, smiling to myself, ready when they completed to bury them with examples of how women were respected and revered in Islam - how Islam came along and kept the female babies from being buried, how it came along and guaranteed rights for women to protection, to property, to inheritance, to respect.

    How, in the modern day, I had the freedom to work, to not work, to hoard my money and sleep on it like a dragon and keep it from my husband if I so choose - and how many Western women get to do that?

    I'd tell them that, for everything that looked like the men had control over us, we, in some other way, had advantages and control over him. That, when our souls are being judged, we will be completely equal. That, when you hear of extreme cases of women being controlled and subjugated, that is not Islam. It is the culture. It is the faults of men. In fact, those men were anti-Islam. Their behavior flew in the face of it.

    And those non-Muslims who were not very educated on the matter were dazzled, were confused, surrendered quickly and politely, agreed that the Islam they see and hear and read about must not be the one that is the true Islam.

    And, of course, every Muslim who heard me saying these things agreed enthusiastically, beaming, excited to hear their beliefs so justified, gave me their mashallahs and alhamdullilahs and thank God there are still some proper Muslims in the world who know the truth, and young people like you are just what we need in the future.

    We need some converts who cast away their bikinis in the west to don the hijab, who rejected Western ideas of freedom and found true freedom in Islam. We need some fucking champions.

    But the truth finally caught up with me: even if I could lie to these people, I couldn't lie to myself.

    I never believed in the feminist nature of Islam because the rights of women were so compelling; I had to search and justify and scrape together evidence of our rights, dust them off and cling to them because I believed in Islam.

    Eventually, I had to reconcile with the fact that not a single feminist trick I had was without its counterbalance in Islam that negated it, that belittled it, that made it impossible to achieve unless I were lucky.

    And even if rights were unconditionally allowed to us, were gifts from God, He passed the gifts onto the men and lets them decide whether to deliver them to us or to hold them over our heads.

    I think the most perfect example of the disconnect for me is when I talked non-Muslims into surrender.

    They surrendered easily, with only a few examples. But why? Was it because I was just that great of a debater?

    Was it because I had my act together?

    No. It was because they very often knew the true meaning of respect. Of freedom. Of rights. They truly knew and truly believed that I had every right to my religion, that I could elect to wear the veil, that I could be happy and somehow in control under the watch of my guardian.

    They were always ready to allow me to make my own decisions, even if they sounded so foreign, so strange, so backwards, even if they disapproved of it, even if they rejected the very premise of my beliefs. They never denied me respect, they never denied me alliance, they were still eager to treat me as an equal and as a friend.

    But what becomes of all the rights of a Muslim woman when she doesn't toe the line in Islam?

    What becomes the right of a woman in a Muslim country, a Muslim marriage, a Muslim family when she makes up her own mind?

    The right to believe what you want to believe is never the right of a Muslim, and there are consequences for trying to seize it.

    The novel rights of a Muslim woman are only hers if she earns them and has been blessed by a decent circumstance. She earns them not by being a woman, not by being a human being, but by being a good Muslim. If she deviates too far, the rights are gone.

    They are taken from us, and then some. They were never ours to begin with.




    That is very well-written, lua!
    Islamic feminism is a contraditicion in itself.

    Quote
    Eventually, I had to reconcile with the fact that not a single feminist trick I had was without its counterbalance in Islam that negated it, that belittled it, that made it impossible to achieve unless I were lucky.

     


  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #162 - March 24, 2014, 03:09 PM

    Thank you, inception!
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #163 - March 24, 2014, 09:28 PM

    I'm tempted to quote the whole article several times, just to make a one line response each time. Cheesy

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #164 - March 24, 2014, 09:29 PM

     Grin I'd be nervous to be critiqued by you!

    Edit: Ohh, I got you. I thought you meant to respond with scrutiny.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #165 - March 25, 2014, 10:47 AM

    I don't think there's much hope for Muslim "feminists", they're really no different from other liberal Muslims in that they engage in all manner of selective reading and self-delusion to craft Islam into something palatable for them. I imagine most of them are good people at heart and are hence unable to stomach real Islam but can't quite let go of the religion hence the florid alternative "interpretations".
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #166 - March 25, 2014, 12:33 PM

    I know what you mean, Al-Alethia.

    Also this somehow turned into a rant and I'm totally sorry:

    Most of the very vocal Muslim feminists that I know are really, really nice people. That's what gets them into this situation. They just simply will not be made to believe all the immoral things about their religion, because they are way better than that.

    So what do they do? Things like the salafi feminist up there is doing, things like what your sister does. They are either less knowledgeable about Islam, or they cherry-pick, they rationalize, they are intellectually dishonest, they do research to try to find examples of the rights they are looking for and spend time trying to figure out how to justify disregarding the rest.

    I think this is part of the reason why I have found that so many converts, especially female Western converts, tend to know a lot more about Islam than the average lifelong Muslim I'd run into. The converts have thrust themselves into a position where they've committed to something that doesn't come easily, probably because Islam was presented to them so delicately or they fell in love with a Muslim man, and now, in order to maintain their decency, they have to always work to find out how they can possibly defend it. They're always reading, always searching, always doing mental gymnastics, and always seeking solidarity in the like-minded.

    On one hand, it is all beautiful and nice and heartwarming sometimes, and I know their intentions are pure and they do not do anyone at all a disservice by campaigning for better rights for fellow Muslims. Some of the best women's rights activists in Muslim countries are, or course, Muslim feminists.

    But the problem is that when people get run over by the system, the feminists always offer support, they are always sympathetic, but just as quick to assert that it wasn't Islam that did this. That it was something else. That it was an outlier. Or maybe that you just aren't trying hard enough. And, when we try to stick up for the truly oppressed, they launch to the forefront of the argument to mock the attempts and turn the tides and play on people's kindness and ignorance and fear of looking like oppressors. But these women are not (and, with any luck, they will never be) the ones that need it, the ones we were talking to, the ones who have and are suffering.

    In some ways, they are more dangerous than guys like Tzortzis or others who practice dawah, who ambush people on the street or make youtube videos of nonsensical pro-Islam arguments. Anyone who glances at the average popular blog of your average, happy young Muslimah will see Islam and life as a Muslim woman painted as something that is pure and lovely and something to be envied. They have a nice situation, a sympathetic and liberal husband, loving parents, no conflict in their convictions, children whose relationship with them are never compromised, and everything is great, and it is because of Islam and this is the true face of Islam.

    But it's not. You're fortunate. You're lucky. You have no idea how lucky you are. And you and those who look to you as representatives of Muslim women worldwide will see a lovely picture. You and they see nothing but the beauty, and you leave the rest of us to see the truth.


  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #167 - March 25, 2014, 01:25 PM

    Beautifully said Lua.

    That's the thing; if you say anything about oppression, 50 privileged Muslim women jump up and say "do I look oppressed?", and then it's difficult to reply to that. I think by jumping up, that warrants a harsh reply to them.

    One thing that being a forced hijabi has served me is talking back to "empowered" Muslim women and saying "well what about me?". My parents will not accept me taking off my hijab, and I don't expect support from the Muslim community for doing something "haram". And it's easy for them to tell me "well then go ahead, take it off", not realising the strength it will take to deal with losing family support...which comes back to the "then stay wearing it".

    If feminism means helping other women, or paving the way, then Muslim feminists fail, and I'm only talking about that trivial little piece of cloth called hijab.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #168 - March 25, 2014, 01:34 PM

    I was also free to chose to wear the hijab and niqab, it was my own choice and decision... Until I didn't want to wear it anymore and then wasn't free to take it off...

    I hate Muslim women in the West who enjoy all their rights and freedoms that secularism and democracy have brought them with the sweat, blood and tears of non-Muslim kafir feminists in the past. And the fight is still ongoing. I hate them because they criticize the system and ideology that gave them these privileges, privileges they would never want to give up, while supporting and promoting an ideology that would take away all those rights and make them into 2nd class citizens. And then they have the audacity to claim that every singe Muslim and Islamic society throughout history have "misunderstood" Islam and that Islam really "liberated" women far long before "feminism" ever did. I hate them, I fucking hate them, and I just wish one of them would dare to utter that crap in front of me. No, I hope it'll happen, I fantasize about it happening. I would fucking destroy them, I would destroy them so that they could never again show their faces without people remembering what complete idiots they are.

    Sorry for being so unpleasant today, it's one of those days when my tolerance for people's shit and idiocy is at its limit.






    Thats what happens to me everytime I hear that Cerrah girl especially that article on the guardian where she tried to justify child marriage

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #169 - March 25, 2014, 02:30 PM

    Beautifully said Lua.

    That's the thing; if you say anything about oppression, 50 privileged Muslim women jump up and say "do I look oppressed?", and then it's difficult to reply to that. I think by jumping up, that warrants a harsh reply to them.

    One thing that being a forced hijabi has served me is talking back to "empowered" Muslim women and saying "well what about me?". My parents will not accept me taking off my hijab, and I don't expect support from the Muslim community for doing something "haram". And it's easy for them to tell me "well then go ahead, take it off", not realising the strength it will take to deal with losing family support...which comes back to the "then stay wearing it".

    If feminism means helping other women, or paving the way, then Muslim feminists fail, and I'm only talking about that trivial little piece of cloth called hijab.

     


    By ignoring the plight of women being forced to wear the hijaab these so called muslim "feminists" are helping to actively cover up and push the problem under the rug. Pushing the problem under the rug basically allows the muslim men to continue to do what they are doing without fear of punishment.

    They say they are "feminists" but in effect they are really providing support for misogynists.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #170 - March 25, 2014, 02:33 PM

    Thank you, Jila.

    That is precisely the problem. I wish more of them were mindful of situations like yours. They seem to not even realize they exist sometimes, and they sputter out silly solutions when faced with them.

    but in effect they are really providing support for misogynists.


    Unfortunately true.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #171 - March 25, 2014, 02:37 PM

    Yes but that's not islam, that's culture. Islam is beautiful, it's the culture that is corrupt. Roll Eyes

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #172 - March 25, 2014, 02:47 PM

    I almost forgot :thumbs up: on an awesome article, lua. 

    I can definitely relate to the "you're free…until you're not" aspect of Islamic feminism and the fact that all these women are lucky because of their circumstances, which often come about in spite of Islam and most definitely not because of it (eg: living in secular, Western societies, having liberal menfolk, etc). I remember reading a testimonial by a Saudi ex-Muslim somewhere online ages ago; he was saying how when his father dies and he becomes mahram he'd allow his sisters to be "free" and manage their own lives. It really struck me how a woman's quality of life under an Islamic system is primarily determined by the kindness/ decency of the men in her life. If they're assholes, she's fucked. If they're nice, she's lucky. That's not real freedom. 
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #173 - March 25, 2014, 02:50 PM

    @jila
    Have you tried telling your parents that if you wear the hijab you're only doing it for their sake and not for Allah, hence it'd be wrong of them to force you? If you're really naughty, you could just point out that you'll probably be out of the house soon and then how are they going to enforce the hijab rule? 

    I think you should try with your folks. Perhaps your parents are a little more understanding or lenient than you give them credit for. Is that possible? I apologise in advance if I sound patronising or if I'm totally miscalculating your situation, I'm just looking at your situation through the lens of my experience with the same problem and I remember being waaay more scared than I needed to be. 
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #174 - March 25, 2014, 02:52 PM

    Thank you!!

    But I probably could have said the same things and saved everyone a bunch of time if I had thought to write what you did:

    "a woman's quality of life under an Islamic system is primarily determined by the kindness/ decency of the men in her life. If they're assholes, she's fucked. If they're nice, she's lucky. That's not real freedom. "

    Also, Quod, I can laugh about it now, but I used to say that with a straight face.
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #175 - March 25, 2014, 02:52 PM

    I almost forgot :thumbs up: on an awesome article, lua. 

    My sister has her moments but she's definitely not an awful human being and my mother is easily a good person. They mostly ignore the unpleasantries and when I used to bring those things up I'd often get shot down for focusing on the negatives. My sister used to always ask why I deliberately went looking for "bad stuff". 

    I can definitely relate to the "you're free…until you're not" aspect of Islamic feminism and the fact that all these women are lucky because of their circumstances, which often come about in spite of Islam and most definitely not because of it (eg: living in secular, Western societies, having liberal menfolk, etc). I remember reading a testimonial by a Saudi ex-Muslim somewhere online ages ago; he was saying how when his father dies and he becomes mahram he'd allow his sisters to be "free" and manage their own lives. It really struck me how a woman's quality of life under an Islamic system is primarily determined by the kindness/ decency of the men in her life. If they're assholes, she's fucked. If they're nice, she's lucky. That's not real freedom. 

    Of course it's not, and it's the furthest from equality you can get. Islam keeps women, at best, in a state of eternal childhood.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #176 - March 25, 2014, 03:36 PM

    I actually saw a post on FB where muslim woman were having this exact same argument about whether a muslim woman can be a feminist or not

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #177 - March 25, 2014, 04:00 PM

    Well, you can call yourself both those things.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #178 - March 25, 2014, 04:05 PM

     Grin  The issue is just if you're going to do those jobs well.

    In this case, if you're a good feminist, you're probably not going to be the strongest Muslim and your accepted version of Islam will have to have been carved down to a weak pile of nothing that many other Muslims will unsurprisingly have issue with.

    If your convictions in Islam are strong and your belief in the Quran and/or the sunnah is more complete, you're probably not going to be a good feminist.

    You can say you're both, but you're probably going to be deficient in one or the other or both at the same time.
  • Re: the lies of 'Islamic Feminism'
     Reply #179 - March 25, 2014, 05:09 PM


    In some ways, they are more dangerous than guys like Tzortzis or others who practice dawah, who ambush people on the street or make youtube videos of nonsensical pro-Islam arguments. Anyone who glances at the average popular blog of your average, happy young Muslimah will see Islam and life as a Muslim woman painted as something that is pure and lovely and something to be envied. They have a nice situation, a sympathetic and liberal husband, loving parents, no conflict in their convictions, children whose relationship with them are never compromised, and everything is great, and it is because of Islam and this is the true face of Islam.

    But it's not. You're fortunate. You're lucky. You have no idea how lucky you are. And you and those who look to you as representatives of Muslim women worldwide will see a lovely picture. You and they see nothing but the beauty, and you leave the rest of us to see the truth.


    Well said, well said! This is exactly what I've been saying for so long, and I feel that a lot of Muslim women, especially Muslim feminist, just don't want to deal with this fact. The fact that Muslim woman I know can sit and lecture about the misogynist rulings for married life and women's vs men's role in society, while at the same time saying to me that she would never ever accept living under those rules and norms, is beyond me. It's such a hypocrisy that they really ought to be ashamed and I can't understand how they can live with themselves. Miriam Francois-Cerrah is really the worst kind of person, I know that I would completely destroy her in a discussion (if my English language skills were just a little better, or preferably if she spoke Swedish Smiley ). She can't even answer with a straight Yes or No when asked on The Big Question whether or not she supports stoning. The best she can muster is "that's irrelevant, we live in Britain". Oh god I hate her. Even Tariq Ramadan with his "stoning should be on a moratorium" was a "better" answer.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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