How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?

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- kepticsay
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
OP - March 10, 2014, 08:30 AM

I'm aware that human evolution is completely at odds with the teachings of Islam and the Qur'an, but I've noticed it's difficult to gauge how much of an issue it is for (English-speaking) Muslims. Unlike Christians, they don't seem to lend the topic much thought or debate. Does anyone know why this is? In general, do they genuinely believe it to be false and unscientific or do they choose to avoid the topic completely?
- dr_sloth
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #1 - March 10, 2014, 08:49 AM

The really dumb ones deny in completely.
The more educated ones deny it apart from with humans.
The more educated ones still, suggest that Adam and Eve is metaphorical.
The more educated ones still, end up on CEMB.

Most commonly I come across Muslims who accept it apart from with Humans. They maintain that the science is just wrong. It may catch up with Islam, and if it doesn't, that just goes to show how limited science is, and why we should all read the quran instead.
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #2 - March 10, 2014, 08:52 AM

From my own experience, the Muslims I know of (including myself when I was a Muslim) just ignore it. If you don't discuss it, or think about it, you can act as if it doesn't exist. The Muslims that did talk about it mostly used Harun Yahyas texts on "Darwinism" and the "evil of evolution", as if that would discredit the theory instead of discussing it scientifically. When confronted with it, most of them I know of just say "allahu alem" and that they believe in the quran. Full stop. It doesn't "bother" them, the cognitive dissonance mode goes turbo.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- yeezevee
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #3 - March 10, 2014, 08:52 AM

Quote from: kepticsay on March 10, 2014, 08:30 AM
I'm aware that human evolution is completely at odds with the teachings of Islam and the Qur'an, but I've noticed it's difficult to gauge how much of an issue it is for (English-speaking) Muslims. Unlike Christians, they don't seem to lend the topic much thought or debate. Does anyone know why this is? In general, do they genuinely believe it to be false and unscientific or do they choose to avoid the topic completely?

Well there are few Islamic intellectuals that are well educated in science and Islam., And those Muslim guys who are top notch scientists such as this one will leave their Islam in the home and in bed rooms. Out of home their home and out of their home towns where they grew up as kids, they are as good as any atheists.

The only guy who tries to open his mouth and makes lots of noise against atheists is that high school dropout Ibex Ibn Mansur. So many college going Muslim guys really don't care about Evolutionary biology and often avoid discussions on that subject. Well let me add some links here

The Muslim theory of evolution by Ghaffar Hussain

Islam and Evolution a letter to Suleman Ali by Nuh Ha Mim Keller 1996

Does Islam believe in Evolution? by Osama Abdallah

Muslim thought on evolution takes a step forward by Salman Hameed

Dr Usama Hasan, a science lecturer at Middlesex University forced to retract evolution claim by Islamic heroes

What does Islam say about the evolution theory? - Q&A - Abdur-Raheem Green

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #4 - March 10, 2014, 09:09 AM

These idiots will be laughed at in the future like the RCC is laughed at for complete denial of the heliocentric model. The worst part is, in the future, the apologists will use some vague Quranic verse to say Islam first came up with the idea of evoution. It's just like now and how the Quran knew of: the exapansion of the universe, anti-matter, etc. Ah, who am I kidding? the Quran contains all of classical and modern physics!
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #5 - March 10, 2014, 09:39 AM

for Salafis and commited da'wah evangelists its as much a bee in the bonnet as it is for Christian literalists and evangelicals, for the same reasons.

Evangelical literalists who believe their religion offers a 'total solution' for humanity and Explanation of Everything have this problem.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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- kepticsay
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #6 - March 10, 2014, 10:13 AM

I don't quite understand how some Muslims can chalk it up to being a metaphor. I haven't studied the Qur'an in any real depth but to me, the creation account seems anything but metaphorical. Why would God omit such an important piece of information? Isn't it supposed to be a book of signs for men of all times, after all?

Christians get a lot more leeway on the topic as the majority aren't Biblical literalists and don't consider the Bible to be the verbatim word of God. It seems that the Qur'an on the other hand has really dug itself into a hole by claiming to be such a thing.
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Reply #7 - March 10, 2014, 10:24 AM

Quote from: kepticsay on March 10, 2014, 10:13 AM
I don't quite understand how some Muslims can chalk it up to being a metaphor. I haven't studied the Qur'an in any real depth but to me, the creation account seems anything but metaphorical. ..........................

No..no I read that book up and down all 114 chapters at least 3 times and here & there selective verses many many times. Indeed there are plenty of verses in Quran that are metaphorical., as far as Science/evolution in Quran is concerned it is nonsense.

Quran is THE SILLIEST BOOK ever put together on this earth., And that is one reason why I say, that book was put together at different times by different people, none of them reading and editing it properly after it became a book in medieval times.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #8 - March 10, 2014, 10:46 AM

Quote from: kepticsay on March 10, 2014, 10:13 AM
I don't quite understand how some Muslims can chalk it up to being a metaphor. I haven't studied the Qur'an in any real depth but to me, the creation account seems anything but metaphorical. Why would God omit such an important piece of information? Isn't it supposed to be a book of signs for men of all times, after all?

Christians get a lot more leeway on the topic as the majority aren't Biblical literalists and don't consider the Bible to be the verbatim word of God. It seems that the Qur'an on the other hand has really dug itself into a hole by claiming to be such a thing.

But that could also be a good thing, a good sign indicating that Muslims and Islam are beginning to take the same route as Christians and the Bible did years ago. I mean, today, most Christians will not read the Bible literally, and they have also decided to only follow the "good" parts and trying to reason away parts that they don't think fit into modern society. For example homosexuality, capital punishments (for moral over steps) etc... If Muslim accept that some parts of the Quran can be read metaphorically, even though there is over whelming evidence pointing to it NOT being metaphorical in any way, then maybe other parts also can be negotiated... in the future... or am I being to optimistic ?

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #9 - March 10, 2014, 10:50 AM

Quote from: kepticsay on March 10, 2014, 10:13 AM
I don't quite understand how some Muslims can chalk it up to being a metaphor.

neither do I, but they only claim when they are painted into a corner. The classic failsafe for anything wrong - just a metaphor.
No muslim is going to accept being corrected on their interpretation of the quran by a kafir
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #10 - March 10, 2014, 11:11 AM

^

My response to muslims who say it is a metaphor is

If it was a metaphor then why didn't Muhammad mention that it was a metaphor ?

I mean if we go down the metaphor route we might as well believe in Zeus interpret all the mythological stories about him as metaphors.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #11 - March 10, 2014, 11:28 AM

I normally point out that they make are making a distinction between literal and metaphorical prophets.
Whereas a proper Muslim makes "no distinction between any of them" (2:136)

but also yes, if allah didn't explain that it was metaphorical, then he must have been only joking when he claimed that the quran is a "detailed explanation of all things" (12:111).
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #12 - March 10, 2014, 11:30 AM

Ugh. I was one of those apologists that defaulted to metaphors. If any of you ever discover time travel, go find me in 2009 and give me a good lecture/old fashioned beating to spare future me of embarrassing memories.
- dr_sloth
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #13 - March 10, 2014, 11:34 AM

We will discover how to travel through time insha'allah. We just need to study the quran a bit more to find out
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #14 - March 10, 2014, 11:37 AM

You're my only hope.
- serpentofeden
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #15 - March 10, 2014, 02:10 PM

doesn't hadith tell in depth how adam n eve were created...
- kepticsay
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How big of an issue is human evolution for Muslims?
Reply #16 - March 10, 2014, 03:21 PM

Quote from: serpentofeden on March 10, 2014, 02:10 PM
doesn't hadith tell in depth how adam n eve were created...

I believe so, but I'm more interested in the implications of how this flies in the face of the Qur'an, since the 'faulty hadith!' card seems to get played an awful lot
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