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Theme Changer

 Topic: What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.

 (Read 5452 times)
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  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     OP - February 09, 2014, 10:43 AM

    I've learnt Tariq Ramadan is in England like in France. In my country (France) he plays the moderate muslim role, he shows a fake islam with a fake open minded and he is a liar.
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #1 - February 09, 2014, 10:53 AM

    I wouldn't go as far as saying he is a liar, however his Islam is very much different from his grandfathers (Hassan al Banna) and the traditional mainstream Islam you can find in the actual texts.

    He tries his very best to reconcile Islamic doctrines and beliefs with what he feels and knows is right and wrong. He would be deemed a "moderate" Muslim, and he probably appeals to European Muslims who want to cling to their Muslim identity and beliefs while still being integrated into a modern society in which they live in.

    Muslims who choose a more Salafi-inspired Islam (like that of al Banna) are usually Muslim youth in the ghettos who often do not have a bright future ahead of themselves, so they turn to radical Islam to find an identity while trying to escape crime and drugs. Unfortunately, some of them turn to other types of crimes instead...

    I don't like Ramadan, because he speaks of an Islam that he himself invented by tossing and turning the Islamic scriptures around until they fit his notion of "real" Islam irregardless of what the Quran or hadiths say. And I am not saying that I want to "preserve" Islam, I would much more want to have an honest discussion about the problems with Islam and how to get rid of them or resolve them somehow (even though I don't believe that is possible...). Not denying them entirely like Ramadan does.

    I would love to sit with him and hear him explain, defend or deny scriptures handling the inferiority of women, beating of women, immorality that is found within Islam, Muslim supremacist ideology that is rampant within the Quran and hadith, or the more violent history of Islam.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #2 - February 09, 2014, 11:04 AM

    I've learnt Tariq Ramadan is in England like in France. In my country (France) he plays the moderate muslim role, he shows a fake islam with a fake open minded and he is a very dangerous lier.

    hello  erazne, I  would not call him as very dangerous lair but just liar who is trying to play Islamic politics in western countries.

    Liars that play religious politics can only become dangerous if you do not expose them. , otherwise they are all right. People live in lies,  with lies all the time.



    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #3 - February 09, 2014, 11:19 AM

    Sorry for my mistake ^^.
    I agree with you yeezevee, politicians are liars mostly when they speak about topics. My president congratulated for example the tunisian revolution saying "it shows islam and democraty are compatibles". A stupid minister Manuel Vall also said "Islam is not a problem, look at what the council of muslim of France says about islam". And in England for the government pakistani rapist don't exist 'cuz of racism...

    Ramadan is very dangerous because he helps in France to bring back islam in France, lots of french muslims become very faithful thanks to him.
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #4 - August 21, 2014, 08:50 PM

    Why I will not attend the ISNA (August 2014) and RIS (December 2014) conferences

    Quote
    In recent years I have been a faithful participant in two major events of the North American Muslim calendar. As a regular attendee at these annual gatherings, I wish to express my warmest thanks to the institutions, and to the women and men who made them the success they undoubtedly were.

    This year, however, I have decided not to attend or participate in the conferences organized by ISNA from August 29 to September 1 in Detroit, and by RIS, from December 26-28 2014, in Toronto. The reasons are different, but point to similar causes.

    The leaders of ISNA can boast a proud record of service to American Muslims, for which they must be thanked and congratulated. The annual ISNA convention is an important gathering, featuring a multiplicity of participants and a broad cross-section of activities. In recent years, however, the political positions taken by the organization’s leadership have not always been clear-cut. Though it is essential, I believe, to remain open to dialogue with the authorities, it is likewise essential that positions of principle must be maintained, re-affirmed and defended. Not simply for the good of the Muslims, but in the name of the contribution of American Muslims to their society. Criticism of the domestic policy of the current administration, like those that preceded it, is a moral obligation.

    Summary arrests, arbitrary prison terms, inhuman psychological torture and solitary confinement, the shadowy role of informers and the deeply troubling and unacceptable methods used by the FBI, which has provoked young people to engage in extremist actions, must be unconditionally condemned. Not in the name of Islam, but in the name of the values proclaimed by the United States. However, the ISNA leadership is too often silent, as if paralyzed by fear. It fares no better with respect to American foreign policy. Its silence over American support for the outlaw and inhuman policies of Israel cannot be justified, even less so after attending an iftar organized by the White House during which President Obama defended Israel while the Israeli ambassador tweeted his delight!
    Quote
    We cannot be forever silent: what kind of active and responsible citizenship does the ISNA leadership offer young American Muslims? What kind of example? That of silent, fearful sycophants–or of free, public-spirited citizens who, while defending the values of human dignity and justice, serve their country in the most sincere and critical way? That of the unconditional loyalty of the ti

    morous, or the critical loyalty of free individuals? To attend the ISNA convention would be to endorse their silence.
    Nor will I be attending RIS this year. The reasons are different, the causes similar. The organizers have long demonstrated their effectiveness; they wish to convey the impression of favoring a plurality of voices. But in fact, it is the so-called “Sufi” and “apolitical” trend that lies at the core of the RIS convention. I do not have the slightest problem with this trend (on the contrary), or its underlying structures and aims. The problem is that some of the participants, scholars or preachers, under the guise of Sufism or in the name of avoiding partisan politics, defend highly politicized positions of support for states and dictatorships. Their silence and their inferences in the heart of the West, in Toronto or elsewhere, constitute visible support for the Gulf petro-monarchies or for despots such as al-Sissi in Egypt. This while dictators from Syria to Iraq by way of Egypt are imprisoning, torturing and killing innocents by the thousands. They cast themselves as above the conflict, while the “Sufism” they offer is highly politicized and too well adjusted to the boots of the State. But I will have none of this. When some speakers boast in public of their openness but refuse to participate in panel discussions to avoid being exposed, openness goes by the board. When the same people support dictatorial governments, coherence flies out the window. I cannot, by my presence, lend implicit approval to such positions.

    Quote
    Spare me please any talk of my family background: I have sufficiently criticized the Islamist movements—all of them, without exception–and their choices that my approach cannot be reduced to anything resembling even implicit support. My position is that all dictators must be confronted, all injustices must be fought; we cannot be silent, or feign silence while supporting the worst regimes.

    I have said it once and I will say it again: Western Muslims will in the future assume a critical role. Educated and living in free societies, they must acquire greater knowledge of their religion and become free, active and outspoken citizens, fully aware of their duties and dedicated to the defense of their rights. In the United States, just as in Canada and in Europe, they must defend everyone’s human dignity, and refuse to keep silent in the face of intimidation by the state. Drawing on their spirituality and their values, their commitment will be their finest contribution, the best possible example of the contribution of Muslim citizens to the future of the West. The leaders of the previous generation are too cautious, too fearful; they dare not speak freely.

    I am also a member of a generation that is passing on. It is up to the new generation to produce leaders who have understood that in bending over backwards, in saying “Yes sir!” they sacrifice not only their dignity, but forget and betray their duty. I dream of a new feminine and masculine leadership, educated, free and bold, a leadership that does not confuse the concept of dialogue with the authorities with unacceptable compromise and intellectual surrender, a leadership that does not transform Sufism, the historical underpinning of so many liberation movements, into a school of silence and cowardly calculation. As I look around me, I see the first premises of a dream come true, alhamdulLilah.

    I am well aware that the position I am taking will sound off sharp criticism; others may simply decide not to invite me. For years I have dealt with criticisms of my person, my training, my credibility. I have no time to waste with these low blows and refer readers to my résumé, which can be found on my website (http://tariqramadan.com/english/biography/). These are the same individuals who attack my character to avoid responding to the content of my critical thought. I know their methods all too well, but I refuse to waste my time by answering their attacks, which are nothing but a manoeuvre to sidestep the true subject.

     It is impossible for me to attend such events when my presence alone would imply support for positions that stand in total contradiction to my vision of the role of Western Muslims in their society, now and in the future. I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again. It is imperative that we educate ourselves, and that we display good judgement and fortitude. If those around us are silent in the face of the unacceptable, the conscience of Muslims must not remain silent, neither in the name of wisdom betrayed, nor of Sufism perverted.

    Hmm OK.. good..... good

     Yes education is important  and i am not really that  Sufism  was the historical underpinning of so many liberation movements,  They may have erected new Caliphs but they were always under some ruler..   well that is from a well known man of Islam.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #5 - August 21, 2014, 09:13 PM

    And in England for the government pakistani rapist don't exist 'cuz of racism...

    Ramadan is very dangerous because he helps in France to bring back islam in France, lots of french muslims become very faithful thanks to him.


    The UK government isn't so stupid or so blinded by colour to cite being Pakistani as the cause of rape. It is a complex issue that involves a culture that views women as sexual objects, access to vulnerable girls and gang mentality. That these people are 'paksitani' is not the reason and neither is the culture the sole reason. There are all sorts of circumstances that lead people to become involved in such activities. Given that there are millions of Pakistanis in this country the cases reported are not reflective in any way of Paksitanis at all just as the cases of white male English/Aussie celebrities commiting rape and/or paedophillia is not reflective of that community.

    Tariq Ramdan is NOT very dangerous at all and neither is he a liar. He is a deluded individual who wishes to reform Islam. That we disagree with his idealised view of Islam-The Koran-Muhammad does not mean he is a liar nor dangerous. In fact, I'd rather more Tariq Ramadan's than idiots like Tortoise or Deen. 

    I detect an unnerving undercurrent of intolerance towards Muslims of any sort in your post.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #6 - August 21, 2014, 09:23 PM

    .........................

    I detect an unnerving undercurrent of intolerance towards Muslims of any sort in your post.

    JD   erazne hardly posts in the forum so it is no use of replying to him.. but you are right ., UNDER CURRENTS  in the river  are more dangerous than  a roaring river., Though I m  good swimmer I almost drowned  in it..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #7 - August 21, 2014, 10:33 PM

    Just like cerrah, he is ok when his mouth is shut.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #8 - August 21, 2014, 11:13 PM

    Sorry for my mistake ^^.
    I agree with you yeezevee, politicians are liars mostly when they speak about topics. My president congratulated for example the tunisian revolution saying "it shows islam and democraty are compatibles". A stupid minister Manuel Vall also said "Islam is not a problem, look at what the council of muslim of France says about islam". And in England for the government pakistani rapist don't exist 'cuz of racism...

    Ramadan is very dangerous because he helps in France to bring back islam in France, lots of french muslims become very faithful thanks to him.


    A rapist is a rapist regardless of national origin. I would hope a rapist would be prosecuted for the act of rape and not the country their grandparents came from.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #9 - August 25, 2014, 09:11 PM

    Perhaps Tariq is more akin to a William Lane Craig of the Islamic apologetics machine, rather than a straight out bad guy. He seems smart and intelligent and well educated.

    Like WLC he may well genuinely believe what he is saying, so then he is not a liar, just badly mistaken and trying desperately to defend the indefensible and prove the unprovable.

    I suggest. like most religious people, as my tagline says, he is better than his god.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #10 - May 13, 2017, 04:39 PM

    A friend of mine talks about this guy as though he is God's gift to mankind, but I don't know much about him. Is he an actual reformer or is his idea of reformation one that can't hold against fundamentalists?
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #11 - May 13, 2017, 04:47 PM

    I would argue the latter. As long as you cling to the idea of "real Islam", you'll never move beyond the "Quran the final and unchanged literal word of God" discourse. And as long as you cling on to that, the problem with fatanicism and extreme ideologies will remain a major problem within the Muslim communities as well as globally.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #12 - May 13, 2017, 05:24 PM

    Agreed. As a Muslim I attempted to debate fundamentalists on what is or isn't Islamic and they won every time, because the Qur'an and hadiths were on their side. As long as you hold the belief that the religious scripture can't be critiqued, they will have the upper hand.
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #13 - May 13, 2017, 06:16 PM

    I think he's of the Reza Aslan ilk. It's not scripture, it's us who are the problem. It's our 'interpretation'. Very wishy washy stuff IMO. Reformers go further in that they will admit that certain explicit passages in the Quran don't have a place in a modern, plural society.
  • What do you think about Tariq Ramadan.
     Reply #14 - January 31, 2018, 02:44 PM

    Tariq Ramadan taken into custody by French police
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