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 Topic: Shaking Muslim womens' hands.

 (Read 2545 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     OP - February 07, 2014, 08:21 PM

    At parents evening recently I was in a dilemma. All the white parents I shook hands with. But when it came to the two Muslim parents that I met I did not shake their hands. Not even the mans. I thought that if I don't shake the womans hand then why should I shake the mans?

    I don't know what the problem was - we were in a professional setting (a school) discussing the childs educational achievements/concerns.

    Has anyone else experienced this issue?

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #1 - February 07, 2014, 08:35 PM

    Lol, did they react? How do you know that the woman wouldn't shake your hand? Some Muslim women do.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #2 - February 07, 2014, 09:34 PM

    At parents evening recently I was in a dilemma. All the white parents I shook hands with. But when it came to the two Muslim parents that I met I did not shake their hands. Not even the mans. I thought that if I don't shake the womans hand then why should I shake the mans?

    I don't know what the problem was - we were in a professional setting (a school) discussing the childs educational achievements/concerns.

    Has anyone else experienced this issue?

    JEDDDDDDDDDDDDiiiii., Why? why  you didn't hand shake with Muslim folks??  finmad

    you have a problem.,  I have given  hand shakes to more than 50 professional Muslim women folk and plenty of men who are Muslims.. You didn't even give a chance to them., you just neglected them there.  At least you should have tested them by forwarding your hand..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #3 - February 07, 2014, 10:09 PM

    It was the vibe I got - you don't shake Muslim womens hand do you?

    I didn't want to 'test' in case it made the situation awkward.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #4 - February 07, 2014, 10:20 PM

    Meh, never made it awkward for me. Better just assume people shake hands and if not, it'll be awkward for them and not you.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #5 - February 07, 2014, 10:37 PM

    It was the vibe I got - you don't shake Muslim womens hand do you?

    I didn't want to 'test' in case it made the situation awkward.

    off course I do., I agree it does depend a bit on her age and whether she dressed in Burqa or niqab.,      otherwise answer is yes,,

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #6 - February 07, 2014, 10:42 PM

    The thing is that they were wearing hijab and they were mothers too with their husbands (beardo's). I didn't what the reaction would be. I think it's rather silly to think twice about something like that in a professional setting but these thoughts don't arise in a vacuum. Muhammad never shook hands with a woman did he?

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #7 - February 07, 2014, 10:49 PM

    The thing is that they were wearing hijab and they were mothers too with their husbands (beardo's).  

    oooops ., mothers are ok., hijab is ok., to hand shake,   but   I agree  not  when they are along with  bearded weirdos specially in UK..

    So at least did you say   As-ssalamu alaykum??  

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #8 - February 07, 2014, 10:54 PM

    Just do what you feel right to do  Cheesy
    Man, stop thinking too much!
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #9 - February 07, 2014, 10:59 PM

    ........ Muhammad never shook hands with a woman did he?

    Hu! whaat?  what is that has to do with you not shaking Muslim folks hands in a social gathering?

    Are you trying to imitates Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) Prophet Jedi?

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #10 - February 07, 2014, 11:33 PM

    The thing is that they were wearing hijab and they were mothers too with their husbands (beardo's). I didn't what the reaction would be. I think it's rather silly to think twice about something like that in a professional setting but these thoughts don't arise in a vacuum. Muhammad never shook hands with a woman did he?

    How do you know that?

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #11 - February 08, 2014, 12:06 AM

    How do you know that?

    Hmm.,  You don't have the necessary background of Islam, Islamic history  and Islamic scriptures SAM..

    READ EVERY WORD OF IT....
    Quote
    Shaking hands (and touching) members of the opposite sex when not related, is not permissible for Muslims according to the teachings of Islam.

    First: It is not allowed for a believing man to put his hand in the hand of a woman who is not allowed for him (mother, wife, sister, daughter, etc.). Whoever does this has wronged himself (sinned).

    There is a Hadith from Ma'qil ibn Yasar, saying; The Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) said, "It is better for you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle than to touch the hand of a woman who is not permissible to you."

    This alone should be enough to keep away from this action and to instill obedience to Allah, as it implies touching women may lead to temptation and immorality.

    Ayesha, the wife of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'When the believing women migrated (to Medina) and came to the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) they would be examined in accordance with the words of Allah (in Quran):

    "O Prophet! When believing women come to you to give you the Bay’ah (pledge of allegiance), that they will not associate anything in worship with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit illegal sexual intercourse, that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood (i.e. by making illegal children belonging to their husbands), and that they will not disobey you in any Ma'ruf (Islamic Monotheism and all that which Islam ordains) then accept their Bay’ah (pledge of allegiance), and ask Allah to forgive them, Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful". [Noble Quran 60:12]

    Any of the believing women who accepted the conditions of the verse and agreed to live by them were considered to have offered themselves for giving their oaths of allegiance. When they declared their commitment to do so, the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) would say to them, "You may go. I have confirmed your allegiance."
    I swear by Allah, the Prophet's hand never touched the hand of a woman. He would receive their oath of allegiance by spoken declaration. I swear by Allah, the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) never took any vow from women except what Allah had ordered him to take and his palm never touched the palm of a woman. When he had taken their pledge, he would tell them he had taken their oath from them orally. ' [Sahih Muslim]

    The Prophet of Allah (Peace and blessings be upon him) did not touch women who were not permissible (shaking hands, etc.). This despite the fact the oath of allegiance was originally given by hand. So what about these other men going around shaking hands?

    Umaymah bint Raqiqah said: 'The Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) said, "I do not shake hands with women (not permissible to touch)."'

    Second: It's not permissible to shake hands even with a barrier (such as a garment) in between. There is an unacceptable narration (Da’if; not authentic) saying the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) used to shake hands with women from beneath a garment. Al Haythami said: 'This was narrated by At-Tabarani in Al-Kabir and Al-Awsat. The chain of narrators includes 'Atab ibn Harb, who is Da’if (weak in narrations).

    Waliyyud-Din Al-Iraqi said: 'The words of Ayesha, "He used to accept the women's oath by words only" means he did so without taking their hands or shaking hands with them. This indicates the Bay’ah (oath) of men was accepted by shaking hands, as well as words, and this is how it was. What Ayesha mentioned was the custom.'

    Some Mufassirun (type of scholar) mentioned that the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) asked for a vessel of water and dipped his hand in it, then the women dipped their hands in it. And some of them said he did not shake hands with them from behind a barrier and had a cloak from Qatar over his hand. And it was said that 'Umar, may Allah accept from him, shook hands with them on his behalf.

    None of these reports are true, especially the last one.

    How could 'Umar, may Allah accept from him, have done something the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) would not do?

    Sheikh Muhammad Abdul-Aziz bin Baz (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, d. 1999), Allah's Mercy on him, said:

    'The most correct view in this (shaking women's hands with something in between) is not allowed at all, because of the general meaning of the Hadith, wherein the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) said, "I do not shake hands with women (who are not related)" in order to avoid the way leading to evil.

    Third: The same rule applies to shaking hands with older women; it is also forbidden due to the general meaning of the texts on the issue. The reports saying it is permissible are weak (Da’if).

    Al-Zayla'i said: 'As for the report saying Abu Bakr used to shake hands with old women, it is Gharib (strange in its chain of narrators, not acceptable in this case).

    Ibn Hajar said: 'I cannot find this Hadith."

    Fourth: We now list the opinions of the four schools of jurisprudence (Madthabs):

    With regard to the views of the four Imams, they are as follows:

    1- Hanafi Madthab (Imam Abu Hanifah):
    Ibn Nujaym said: 'It is not permissible for a man to touch a woman's face or hands even when there's no risk of desire because it is Haram in principle and there is no necessity to allow it.'

    2- Maliki Madthab (Imam Malik):
    Muhammad ibn Ahmad ('Ulaysh) said: 'It's not permissible for a man to touch the face or hand of a non-Mahram woman (not related), and it is not permissible for him to put his hand on hers without a barrier. Ayesha, may Allah be pleased with her, said: 'The Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) never accepted a woman's oath of allegiance by shaking hands with her; instead he would accept their oath of allegiance in words alone.'

    According to another report: 'His hand never touched the hand of a woman, instead he would accept their oath of allegiance with words alone.'

    3- Shafi'i Madthab (Imam Ash-Shafi'i):
    Imam An-Nawawi (author of Al-Arba’in An-Nawawiyyah and Riyadus-Salahin) said, "It is not permitted to touch a woman (not properly related) in any way.

    Waliyyud-Din Al-Iraqi said, 'This indicates the hand of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) did not touch the hand of any woman except for those permissible to him, whether in the case of accepting their oath of allegiance or in other cases. If he didn't do it in spite of the fact he was infallible and above suspicion, then it is even more essential for others to heed this prohibition. It appears from the texts he didn't do it because it was forbidden for him to do so.

    The Fuqaha’ (scholars of jurisprudence) among our companions and others say it is forbidden to touch a non-Mahram (not properly related) woman even if it is touching any part of her body that is not a part of her 'Awrah, such as her face.

    But their differences of opinion occurred regarding looking (at them) when there is no desire and no fear of Fitnah (serious calamity). The prohibition of touching is stronger even than the prohibition of looking, and it is forbidden when there is no necessity to allow it. In the case of necessity, such as medical treatment, removing a tooth or treating the eyes, if there is no woman available to provide the treatment, then it is allowed for a man to do it because of the necessity.

    4- Hanbali Madthab (Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal):
    Ibn Muflih said about Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, that he was asked about a man who shakes hands with a woman. His answer was, 'No' and it was emphatically forbidden. When he was asked about shaking hands having some cloth in between he said, 'No'.

    Sheikh Taqiyyud-Din also held the view it was prohibited and gave the reason, touching is more serious than looking.

    you may be prophet material but  CEMB Jedi is prophet himself and  he  knows the past/present and future


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #12 - February 08, 2014, 12:24 AM

    It was the vibe I got - you don't shake Muslim womens hand do you?

    I didn't want to 'test' in case it made the situation awkward.


    You have to make up a standard script for it. Like you crack a joke when your hand is just left there, and then everyone feels better immediately. Say "Oh, sorry! Force of habit!" and change the subject. Which, though not funny, is a valid excuse. Funny is better, but I am having trouble putting myself in those shoes.

    To make Western men feel less awkward over my refusal to shake hands, I would simply say "sorry, I cannot today, my arthritis is troubling me". Which was true, but not the entire truth. It was much easier than a big explanation.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #13 - February 08, 2014, 01:18 AM

    The thing is that they were wearing hijab and they were mothers too with their husbands (beardo's). I didn't what the reaction would be. I think it's rather silly to think twice about something like that in a professional setting but these thoughts don't arise in a vacuum. Muhammad never shook hands with a woman did he?


    I shake hands when they're offered. Muslim men would never attempt to shake my hand (except relatives) since they know I would refuse. You've saved yourself from an awkward moment because most practicing Muslim women wouldn't shake hands with men.
    I do it with non-Muslims or Muslim women but I don't ever bother considering to shake a Muslim man's hand. Funny story, I've once tried to shake a Muslim man's hand. He refused and I stood there... I apologized then ran off 015

    turnipovich
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #14 - February 08, 2014, 06:08 AM

    Shaking hands (and touching) members of the opposite sex when not related, is not permissible for Muslims according to the teachings of Islam.



    Actually, in Islam it is permissible shaking hands between men and women as long as they didn't have a dirty mind and a sexy imagination...

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #15 - February 08, 2014, 08:22 AM

    What do your thoughts have to do with a social norm?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #16 - February 08, 2014, 09:12 AM

    Actually, in Islam it is permissible shaking hands between men and women as long as they didn't have a dirty mind and a sexy imagination...


    No it isn't. It is prohibited in Islam to touch the hand of another woman (unrelated, at times weven if related depending on scholars).

    Thanks guys for the reply.

    But, what is the idea behind it?

    Don't you think that it's sad for a mature man in his 30's (albeit calling hismelf Jedi)in a professional environment is reluctant to shake hands with a Muslim woman in the presence of her husband because he thinks he may cause offence? How do I know? Because it is obvious it would cause offence - 'stop touching my wife looks' will be abound.

    I did not say 'salaam' and neither did I shake the hands of the men. They are lovely people and the women did most of the talking. This isn't about female empowerment because the men just sat there whilst the women were asking ALL the questions and had intelligent things to say about 'In Lebanon we learnt about the Chinese empire and the Persian empire and that's why we have a greater appreciation of the world, whereas over here it's just European history'. All true of course.

    I find the expectation that men/women should not shake hands odd that's all and it's a social taboo that must be broken. (But then again, how do I know that they are not thinking the same thing?)

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #17 - February 08, 2014, 01:41 PM

    You're a school teacher Jedi? Very cool! How old are your students and what sibjects do you teach?
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #18 - February 08, 2014, 02:50 PM

    'In Lebanon we learnt about the Chinese empire and the Persian empire and that's why we have a greater appreciation of the world, whereas over here it's just European history'.

    Tell her she's an ignorant tit.
    Quote
    Cargoes by John Masefield
     
    Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,   
    Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,   
    With a cargo of ivory,   
    And apes and peacocks,   
    Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.
     
    Stately Spanish galleon coming from the Isthmus,   
    Dipping through the Tropics by the palm-green shores,   
    With a cargo of diamonds,   
    Emeralds, amethysts,   
    Topazes, and cinnamon, and gold moidores.
     
    Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke-stack,   
    Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,   
    With a cargo of Tyne coal,   
    Road-rails, pig-lead,   
    Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.

  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #19 - February 08, 2014, 06:22 PM

    You're a school teacher Jedi? Very cool! How old are your students and what sibjects do you teach?


    I'm 31 and I teach History and Sociology 11-18 age range.

    And David:

    Quote
    Tell her she's an ignorant tit.


    But her point is still valid the English National Curriculum is very limited to European and American history with incidental mentions of other countries. Native American, Tasmanian ABoriginal and Indian history is told through British narratives and not independent of it i.e. outside of the context of the British Empire.

    I wish I could teach about Meso-American Empires (Incans/Aztecs) and the African Kingdoms pre-Scramble for Africa. We do teach Tsarist Russia, however at A-Level. (Boring, for me).

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #20 - February 08, 2014, 09:03 PM

    The American curriculum is just as stilted. They should have a class offered just on dynasties or something. That would cover the big things.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #21 - February 09, 2014, 03:52 AM

    My history is limited to the Roman Empire and The Greeks.
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #22 - February 09, 2014, 04:02 AM

    Nowadays, I just go in for the handshake, cuz honestly who gives a fuck.

    At the end of the day if they have to go for the dodge it ends up being awkward for them, not you.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #23 - February 09, 2014, 05:54 AM

    Oh, I understand how you feel, Jedi. I just recently started shaking guys' hands and it still feels awkward.  cool2

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Shaking Muslim womens' hands.
     Reply #24 - February 09, 2014, 06:03 AM

    I'm 31 and I teach History and Sociology 11-18 age range.

    And David:

    But her point is still valid the English National Curriculum is very limited to European and American history with incidental mentions of other countries. Native American, Tasmanian ABoriginal and Indian history is told through British narratives and not independent of it i.e. outside of the context of the British Empire.

    I wish I could teach about Meso-American Empires (Incans/Aztecs) and the African Kingdoms pre-Scramble for Africa. We do teach Tsarist Russia, however at A-Level. (Boring, for me).

     


    yay !   dance


    We got another historian on the forum

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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