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 Topic: Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion

 (Read 17014 times)
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  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #30 - June 29, 2014, 09:52 AM

    Berbs and suki, since you're both apostates and both parents I have to ask, did having children make it easier or harder to leave? On the one hand, I can't imagine wanting to pass that shit onto my own children, on the other if I really did believe in hell, I suppose it might make it harder as I might be damning them for eternity if I don't push that mentality.

    Just curious.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #31 - June 29, 2014, 09:54 AM

    My experience is definitely not the same.  I think the biggest hang up I have, is that if being a woman in Islam.  That is the biggest trauma left within me.

    I wasn't a convert, and my most religious phase was quite brief in comparison.  I was also quite rebellious inside and so I never willingly let go of things like non muslim friends (although my violent ex just made those friends abandon me in the long run, I myself did not cut ties).  I didn't believe as other muslims did, and believed that all people were worthy.

    Even my muslim friends, other than my ex sister in law, were bad muslims.  I was often insulted for the choice of my friends.

    For me however the biggest psychological trauma inflicted on me was the life long, never ending reminder that I was nothing compared to a man.  It was a daily occurrence. Never ending.  If it wasn't be said, I could read it in Islam, if I wasn't reading it, I was observing it.

    Stuck at home as a young girl child, or stuck at home as a married muslim woman.  Watching the freedom the men had, the right to eat first, to have the best meat whilst we ate the left overs, and only after they had completely finished and vacated the area so we could then go and eat.

    I felt like I breathed in my inferiority constantly.  How could I ever find peace in Islam, no matter how hard I tried, even at my most religious, I was so unhappy because I wasn't a man, and I was/believed in a religion that didn't believe in my intelligence.  It made me doubt whether I honestly did need a second woman to back up my witness statements, because maybe I was too fucking stupid to remember.

    I feel like I spent most of my life back then battling an internal war, trying to accept my gender, and not feel bitter that allah had given so much to one gender and so little to another.

    I was more depressed over being me back then, than I have ever been since, and that is saying something, since I have been depressed since too.  Islam never gave me peace because to my mind, I would never be able to avoid going to hell, because I was a woman.  And what is more, even the idea of heaven, seemed like hell to me.

    To be married to my husband and part of his harem up there?  I actually felt serious dread at both prospects.

    Those sorts of feelings are still with me now, and have left serious damage within me.

    Another issue I would say I am left with, are sexual hang ups.  The belief, as much as I try to fight against that belief, that I am dirty on some level.  Unworthy and unlovable because I am not pure.  

    It is why I am single, and why I am likely to remain single since I am unable to trust that a man, is not a typical muslim man, who wants only a woman who is pure.  This belief that all I am is a piece of meat, and that anyone I meet, is only looking at me as the type of woman you sleep with, not the type you stay with.

    Of course I know that this is part of what Islam has left me with.  Sexual hang ups that mean sex leaves me feeling nothing but shame, but it's such a deep down belief, only appears when I am at my most vulnerable, and isn't any better than it was when i first left Islam.  It's on an almost primal level of feeling, bound to feelings of fear and fight or flight.  Overwhelming shame that I experience each time, and so choose to not experience it anymore by never taking those sort of risks in the first place.

    These beliefs were pressed in to me at every step through my history with Islam, from childhood, and into adulthood, and represent the psychological trauma I felt with Islam.

    On the rest, I never felt connected to the muslim ummah, so I lost nothing, I never felt a part of my family, so I lost nothing.  I never felt at one with the message, so again I lost nothing.  

    But I never gained a sense of a self as a female from the outset, so making myself into one since I left Islam, has been a hard journey, and still is.  

    You reminded me of the guilt i am left with as an apostate too,  i cannot enjoy a single glass of wine or a night at a bar without feeling i have done something really bad, i have been out of islam for over five years and still i cannot enjoy alcohol, i havent considered having a boyfriend either because it makes me feel impure, like i'm supposed to be married, islam has turned me into a prude i guess so..    


    Poor sweeties! Sexually even I sometimes feel guilt for it though.

    Berbella I can really relate to your post, I myself was similar to you in the sense of rebellion inside and not agreeing with all of islams rules

    I do wonder though, does leaving a religion make us selfish, in a sense that now a lot of us have to make decisions that hurt our families in the end. As a muslim family comes first, could it be said as an ex muslim we are more selfish and concerned for our own well being?




    Maybe in one way it makes ex-Muslims selfish, but isn't Muslim parents wanting their children to be a certain way/s also selfish?
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #32 - June 29, 2014, 10:49 AM

    Berbs and suki, since you're both apostates and both parents I have to ask, did having children make it easier or harder to leave? On the one hand, I can't imagine wanting to pass that shit onto my own children, on the other if I really did believe in hell, I suppose it might make it harder as I might be damning them for eternity if I don't push that mentality.

    Just curious.


    Having children makes it harder to leave religion and marriage i guess so but my decision to apostate was made incredibly easy because my ex left us long ago to live abroad, never to be seen again, he hates england.. So we are left to do as we please but i havent really done much except have a glass of wine now and again.  I wouldnt dream of teaching religion to my girls, i never have, well only in the early days teaching surah recital etc.. i want them to be free thinking people but they are now kind of annoyed with me occasionally for not keeping up some islam or doing eid etc.. I just say, do it yourself if you want lol 
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #33 - June 29, 2014, 10:55 AM

    Your children are believing muslims?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #34 - June 29, 2014, 11:02 AM

    hell no lol, they don't even understand the word religion, they are western, they know nothing about islam, thats how i wanted it to be..  i used to force hijab on them when they were very young, even trousers under a long skirt etc, cant beleive i did so..   
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #35 - June 29, 2014, 11:26 AM

    but they are now kind of annoyed with me occasionally for not keeping up some islam or doing eid etc.. I just say, do it yourself if you want lol 

    Don't get this bit then.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #36 - June 29, 2014, 11:39 AM

    Don't get this bit then.


    Maybe a bit like I never got Christianity and was never instructed in it but would be annoyed if I didn't have a Christmas dinner and go to some church services around xmas for Carols.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #37 - June 29, 2014, 11:50 AM

    I love this topic, I was obsessed during my first leaving stages, and even when speaking of this to different psychologists, it seemed no one was trained to talk about it.
    I'm still considering studying it in the future since the only trained psychs I can find are in America.

    Maybe the other topic should be merged: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=23701.0

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #38 - June 29, 2014, 11:59 AM

    You reminded me of the guilt i am left with as an apostate too,  i cannot enjoy a single glass of wine or a night at a bar without feeling i have done something really bad, i have been out of islam for over five years and still i cannot enjoy alcohol, i havent considered having a boyfriend either because it makes me feel impure, like i'm supposed to be married, islam has turned me into a prude i guess so..    


    This sensation makes me intensely uncomfortable with myself. I have all these conservative habits, and none of the same politics or beliefs.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #39 - June 29, 2014, 12:03 PM

    Berbella I can really relate to your post, I myself was similar to you in the sense of rebellion inside and not agreeing with all of islams rules

    I do wonder though, does leaving a religion make us selfish, in a sense that now a lot of us have to make decisions that hurt our families in the end. As a muslim family comes first, could it be said as an ex muslim we are more selfish and concerned for our own well being?



    I see this in the opposite from you. I feel ex Muslims are less likely to be discriminatory and judgemental against all people. You don't have to filter everything and everyone through an Islamic lens. I think you put family happiness before religious obligation when you leave Islam. I am not going to be pressuring my kids to fast and pray and make friends with Muslim kids instead of the kids in our neighborhood. I am concerned for their happiness and success in life, and not how their choices and behaviours reflect on my family and make us appear to the rest of the Ummah.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #40 - June 29, 2014, 12:18 PM

    ^^^ Good points!
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #41 - June 29, 2014, 12:35 PM

    You're sweet. Thank you.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #42 - June 29, 2014, 12:36 PM

    You reminded me of the guilt i am left with as an apostate too,  i cannot enjoy a single glass of wine or a night at a bar without feeling i have done something really bad, i have been out of islam for over five years and still i cannot enjoy alcohol, i havent considered having a boyfriend either because it makes me feel impure, like i'm supposed to be married, islam has turned me into a prude i guess so..   


    I feel you. hugs  I don't get that way over alcohol, but a few post islamic experiences have only increased the sense of impurity, and so now I just talk sex, I don't do sex lol

    Berbella I can really relate to your post, I myself was similar to you in the sense of rebellion inside and not agreeing with all of islams rules

    I do wonder though, does leaving a religion make us selfish, in a sense that now a lot of us have to make decisions that hurt our families in the end. As a muslim family comes first, could it be said as an ex muslim we are more selfish and concerned for our own well being?




    Np, absolutely not.  I myself often feel selfish in comparison to the majority of ex muslims on here, since I am in the minority as in I don't have to fake my way, on any level.  I don't have to pretend, I don't have to please my parents, because I left home at 13 and care about them, but not about their feelings.

    So many of you still try to please your families, in spite of your own self needs, so how does that make you selfish? 

    The majority of ex muslims on here could actually use a dose of selfishness for themselves, but instead they give and give in the name of family, even though they no longer believe in Islam.

    Heck some people still plan to marry in a way that still pleases their parents.

    No, you guys are far from selfish.  Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #43 - June 29, 2014, 12:41 PM

    Berbs and suki, since you're both apostates and both parents I have to ask, did having children make it easier or harder to leave? On the one hand, I can't imagine wanting to pass that shit onto my own children, on the other if I really did believe in hell, I suppose it might make it harder as I might be damning them for eternity if I don't push that mentality.

    Just curious.


    No, far from it.

    Once I decided I was done with Islam, I freed my children from its clutches immediately.

    My kids (for now) are not religious at all, and find religion quite funny in general.  The rules, the weird beliefs etc. 

    It did however make leaving my ex husband difficult, for a whole bunch of stupid reasons that in retrospect, had no fucking logic behind them at all.  Grin  Like their dad is good to them, they love him, all kids need their fathers.   Cheesy  Seriously?  all kids need a jew hating, violent man who beats their mother in order to grow up stable? 

    But no, on Islam, my kids weren't ever part of my decision to believe or disbelieve.   Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #44 - June 29, 2014, 12:44 PM

    I see this in the opposite from you. I feel ex Muslims are less likely to be discriminatory and judgemental against all people. You don't have to filter everything and everyone through an Islamic lens. I think you put family happiness before religious obligation when you leave Islam. I am not going to be pressuring my kids to fast and pray and make friends with Muslim kids instead of the kids in our neighborhood. I am concerned for their happiness and success in life, and not how their choices and behaviours reflect on my family and make us appear to the rest of the Ummah.


     yes  So true.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #45 - June 29, 2014, 12:55 PM

    Don't get this bit then.


    They just miss the culture, the amazing foods, dining out with big family or friends, shisha bars, long dresses etc, take away the strict islam and i do enjoy these things   : )  x
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #46 - June 29, 2014, 01:00 PM

    Ah, I get it.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #47 - June 29, 2014, 01:06 PM

    You're sweet. Thank you.


    Nahhh! Hehe!
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #48 - June 29, 2014, 02:40 PM

    I feel you. hugs  I don't get that way over alcohol, but a few post islamic experiences have only increased the sense of impurity, and so now I just talk sex, I don't do sex lol

    Np, absolutely not.  I myself often feel selfish in comparison to the majority of ex muslims on here, since I am in the minority as in I don't have to fake my way, on any level.  I don't have to pretend, I don't have to please my parents, because I left home at 13 and care about them, but not about their feelings.

    So many of you still try to please your families, in spite of your own self needs, so how does that make you selfish? 

    The majority of ex muslims on here could actually use a dose of selfishness for themselves, but instead they give and give in the name of family, even though they no longer believe in Islam.

    Heck some people still plan to marry in a way that still pleases their parents.

    No, you guys are far from selfish.  Smiley


    It's so complicated really. Lately I have been thinking about my master plan to leave this world behind. And as much as i say I don't care what they think I am SO terrified of how it will go down, how many people will be disappointed with me.
    My plan is to visit parts of the UK in December and see how I like the place. Then I want to move up some point next year (there are various options to move) what is being playing on my mind and my guilty conscious are the following:
    1. My family will be terrified that I am alone in a foreign country with no one to look out for me (which is not entirely true I have people there just not people they would trust)
    2. My family will think I am being rash and running away again, which is not the case as I plan to do it over a year after research and saving up and ensuring some stability.
    3. How will I introduce my atheist BF to them, once disappointing them with the move

    Sometimes I just wish I could be like everyone else and conform to what they want, I want to live in different countries and have various different experiences. I want to find a place that i fit into and a community I fit into. If I stay here, my life will not change much in anyway, I will always be expected to live up to certain expectations, but if I move away I am more free to just be myself and grow and eventually get the life I want. But that is selfish right? 



    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #49 - June 29, 2014, 02:55 PM

    It's so complicated really. Lately I have been thinking about my master plan to leave this world behind. And as much as i say I don't care what they think I am SO terrified of how it will go down, how many people will be disappointed with me.
    My plan is to visit parts of the UK in December and see how I like the place. Then I want to move up some point next year (there are various options to move) what is being playing on my mind and my guilty conscious are the following:
    1. My family will be terrified that I am alone in a foreign country with no one to look out for me (which is not entirely true I have people there just not people they would trust)
    2. My family will think I am being rash and running away again, which is not the case as I plan to do it over a year after research and saving up and ensuring some stability.
    3. How will I introduce my atheist BF to them, once disappointing them with the move

    Sometimes I just wish I could be like everyone else and conform to what they want, I want to live in different countries and have various different experiences. I want to find a place that i fit into and a community I fit into. If I stay here, my life will not change much in anyway, I will always be expected to live up to certain expectations, but if I move away I am more free to just be myself and grow and eventually get the life I want. But that is selfish right?





    Not at all.  It's just life hun hugs don't beat yourself up and call yourself things you are not, since selfish is such a shitty word for just wanting to live.

    Is it not also that they are being selfish?  that even though you have no plans to kill, rape, rob or assault anybody, just to live and (had they had no massive cultural expectations) make them proud too, they still want you to do it their way?

    That is far more selfish in my eyes.  That it even plagues you as a worry shows how much you care, since I doubt their selfishness plagues them at all.

    What gives their life, their one trip around this planet, so much more right to be selfish than you?  nothing.  Not that you are their child, you cease being a child eventually, and you and only you have to live through your one trip around the planet.

    If you live your life to please them, and they pass on, what are left with but a long history of self sacrifice, and a feeling that doing things your way is just far too late?

    I personally say follow your path.  I would expect the same from my kids.  We each of us only have one life, and the point of it is to live it in a way that makes it bearable for us, not for others.

    I don't see that as selfishness in the way the word implies.   Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #50 - June 29, 2014, 03:03 PM

     far away hug thank you berbella, your words are very helpful

    I need to make myself strong enough to do this right

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #51 - June 29, 2014, 03:08 PM

    Not at all.  It's just life hun hugs don't beat yourself up and call yourself things you are not, since selfish is such a shitty word for just wanting to live.

    Is it not also that they are being selfish?  that even though you have no plans to kill, rape, rob or assault anybody, just to live and (had they had no massive cultural expectations) make them proud too, they still want you to do it their way?

    That is far more selfish in my eyes.  That it even plagues you as a worry shows how much you care, since I doubt their selfishness plagues them at all.

    What gives their life, their one trip around this planet, so much more right to be selfish than you?  nothing.  Not that you are their child, you cease being a child eventually, and you and only you have to live through your one trip around the planet.

    If you live your life to please them, and they pass on, what are left with but a long history of self sacrifice, and a feeling that doing things your way is just far too late?

    I personally say follow your path.  I would expect the same from my kids.  We each of us only have one life, and the point of it is to live it in a way that makes it bearable for us, not for others.

    I don't see that as selfishness in the way the word implies.   Smiley


    As my mother has said, the joy of children should be to see what they turn in to. See whether you have done a good job, if they are good and peaceful then you have done marvellously. This is even if some things they do you are not sure of or do not like, as long as it isn't hurting anybody then all is good.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #52 - June 29, 2014, 03:16 PM

    ^^^^ That is beautiful I need to write that doown for when Im a mum one day

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #53 - June 29, 2014, 03:23 PM

    A good parent is one who makes sure their children can survive in the world. If I had a child, and by the time they were my age (barring some kind or physical/mental/neurological disability) they had no idea how to survive in the world on their own two feet, how to live their own lives, how to be strong, how to forge their own destinies, how to be independent, then I have failed as a parent.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #54 - June 29, 2014, 03:25 PM

    ^^^ this too!
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #55 - June 29, 2014, 03:59 PM

    far away hug thank you berbella, your words are very helpful

    I need to make myself strong enough to do this right


    Anytime.  That's why we are all, to have the support of others who understand hugs

    You can do this when the time comes, and you owe it to yourself to give it a go.

    As my mother has said, the joy of children should be to see what they turn in to. See whether you have done a good job, if they are good and peaceful then you have done marvellously. This is even if some things they do you are not sure of or do not like, as long as it isn't hurting anybody then all is good.


    Yep, as long as they aren't hurting anybody, then anything my kids do will make me proud and content that I did a good job.  This also includes if they became muslims.  The sort that don't agree with hurting anyone, or imposing religion on anyone, as I know they too, do exist, but yea, even in that most horrid of choices they could make, my litmus test is do no harm to others. 

    A good parent is one who makes sure their children can survive in the world. If I had a child, and by the time they were my age (barring some kind or physical/mental/neurological disability) they had no idea how to survive in the world on their own two feet, how to live their own lives, how to be strong, how to forge their own destinies, how to be independent, then I have failed as a parent.


    Wise Quod, and extremely true.

    That's what every step is for, preparing them to go out and live on their own.   Afro

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #56 - December 29, 2015, 11:28 AM

    Ah, I see that I missed a really interesting discussion going on here during summer last year Smiley But you know, things were upside down for me then so had no time nor energy.

    But I think it's worth bringing this topic back again, especially with Berbs post. Thanks for sharing, and I can definitely relate. Being a woman was horrible, I remember often crying and "cursing my lot in life" being a woman. I just had to accept the fact that I as a woman was less worth, did not have the same opportunities nor rights, nor should I expect it, because it wasn't in accordance with my "nature". So here was someone else deciding what was my "nature". And whenever I came across religious texts reinforcing this interpretation, I felt bitter. Why did allah make me like this?

    My continuously weakening of imaan the last year or so as a Muslim was mainly caused by the fact that I could no longer be blind to the injustice and social breakdown that Islamic practices actually caused. So much for the "just" and "wise" universal principles, when the actual reality of everything that Islam was combined meant nothing but disaster, unless you were a man from the right social/ethnic group! As long as you were a man, you were lucky. Someway or the other you'd find a good place for yourself. As a woman, my chances were zero from the get-go.  The gender issue was a constant battle, and every time I was confronted with the reality of my gender, I felt like my inner self and sense of worth was being broken apart piece by piece.

    As long as I stayed withing my own circle of friends, of course all female gender segregated, I could have a good time. As soon as a male was part of the equation, I knew my life was actually shit. Whether that was being part of the activities in the masjid, being part of a group of friends (oh, waiting to eat after the men have finished and having the left overs, I'm still upset about that when thinking about it!), or just being out a public space where I had to "share" it with men. I say "share", because I wasn't sharing it. I was being shown generosity that the little I was given was because of others kindness, and it could be taken away from me any instant because I was a woman so shut up and stay in your homes. And it was taken away, so many times, until it became "natural". The sad part was, I don't remember anyone actually bringing the issue up. We as women would complain, get upset, and then just shrug it off like "what can we do" and "let's make a space of our own, by ourselves". But no one questioned why it had to be like this. Why was allah being so unfair. Why did allah love one half of his creation more than the other, when he was the one who supposedly created us?

    I'll stop blabbering here. Berbs post are rare these days, but whenever they do come up, they are worth gold  thnkyu

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #57 - December 29, 2015, 06:00 PM

    I always find it interesting to compare and contrast our experiences, CF. It’s A Tale of Two Cities sort of thing. We were both essentially in the same ideological location, but your experience was completely different from mine, all on account of your gender.

    I think what is worse for me as I look back on it is the fact that I really did believe that women were happy with their lot as well. The role Islam gave me as a man did more or less fit within my "nature," so I’d just assumed that was also true of Muslim women and their nature.

    I remember arguing, for example, that Muslim women loved the hijab and niqab and would fight you if you tried to get them to live without it. The fact that I knew I’d probably hate having to wear the attire just reinforced my idea that it was a uniquely female thing. And that Allah knew what he was doing.

     Or I’d argue that women would hate having the requirement of salatul-jama’ah on them, since “they” (yes, all of them) would always prefer staying home and tending to the house and kids. Having to leave the house 5 times a day would be such a hardship that of course they loved not having a large space in the mosque – they’d rather be home anyway. Again, Allah knew what he was doing.

    And so on.

    But reading what you write really makes me consider what it must be like for someone who is fundamentally no different from me being forced into these arbitrary roles. It’s a sobering thing to consider.
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #58 - December 29, 2015, 06:34 PM

    As women we are indoctrinated to believe we are happy. Because really, what other option is there? When we accept that we're not happy, it's a slipper slope to apostasy Smiley

    Of course we wouldn't want to have to go to the masjid 5 times a day, when we have to cook, clean and watch after the kids at the same time! That type of argument is silly, the discussion will eventually end up with "but these are the roles given by allah, for the better of a society..." and etc etc etc. Same old, same old. The problem here is that the roles in society is decided by gender, and any individuality is discarded. Gender is a lousy way of defining people.


    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Religious Traumatic Syndrome - discussion
     Reply #59 - December 29, 2015, 06:55 PM

    Gender, race, sexuality, or what myths you happened to be indoctrinated with. All pretty horrible ways of defining individuals.  yes
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