Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Today at 02:45 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Today at 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
Today at 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
Yesterday at 06:39 PM

New Britain
Yesterday at 05:41 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
Yesterday at 05:47 AM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
February 01, 2024, 12:10 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?

 (Read 15524 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     OP - December 20, 2013, 02:38 PM

    The israel-palestine conflict had been going for a looong while with both side's having both casualitie's and victims . Before i would have been in support of palestine 100% but after being open minded about a lot of thing's i had lost that 100% feel after hearing about multitude's of suicide bomber's and even children taking part in it , those hamas terrorist , brainwashing of children in school's and mosque's teaching them israel is pure evil and teaching them jews are worse than animals and killing them is halal etc . Neverthless many surely suffered by having their home's snatched away from them and such . They deserved to be treated better .

    New's are all foggy and really cant get any non-biased info anywhere . What do you all think about the conflict ? for now in my conclusion currently its like an evil vs evil . wacko

    P.S. these things were in my mind since my fundie(fundamental) roomate started going orthodox and kept watching islamic new's about muslims suffering and all . Obviously sorta biased .
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #1 - December 20, 2013, 05:29 PM

    Well I still support the palestinians, and to an extent I support Hamas.
    I guess I should explain why. Well the Israelis have did ethnically cleanse the palestinians, so I still argue that the ones in the moral wrong are still the israelis (If I need to prove that the Israelis did do an ethnic cleansing, I am willing to quote Ilan Pappe, or albert hourani, etc.)
    Now it should go without saying that Hamas does bad things. I am not going to say that Hamas ever does anything wrong, but the reason why Hamas gets their support is because They usually help poor people (same as Hezbollah in Lebanon). So if Isreal would stop trying to destroy the economy of Gaza, then they could try to be in the right on the issue. Hamas is essentially the lesser of two evils in the scenario. It should also be noted that Israel first supported Ahmed Yassin when the Israelis had problems with the PLO.
    I still support the palestinians, but I should state that what should happen is that israel should stop the occupation of the west bank. It is really the crux of the problem in my opinion.

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #2 - December 20, 2013, 05:33 PM

    It's a topic that's spoken to death...but I'll just give some general thoughts..

    Interestingly Palestinian Nationalism didn't arise till the 1960's and Zionism before the early 20th Century. The fact that the people of the West Bank and Gaza Strip didn't have any significant movement to achieve self-governance and sovereignty of their own land when the West Bank was occupied by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt till 1967 but have made a big hoo haa after the jewish state of Israel won the West Bank and Gaza in the 67 war tell you a lot about the true motivations for the Palestinian Movement many of whom go around using oblique terms like "anti-zionism" to shield their true anti-jewish bigotry.

    Also I always found it amusing how nearly everyone thinks Palestine is an Arab cause considering there's no letter in the arab language which pronounces P. Which is why non-english speaking people who jump on the bandwagon pronounce it as "Falasteen". Prior to the formation of the Palestinian Nationalism Movement deciding to use that term for the creation of their movement, many arabs considered "Palestine" a dirty word that they had contempt for as it was a European term that European Romans used to rename land they had won and made into a colony in imperial advances.

    I would say creating Israel on the basis of a state for people for the jewish religion was a very antagonizing move, especially considering the history of how jews had previously been treated by muslims in for example the pogroms, Damascus Affair and Grenada Massacre. Not to forget the massace of hundreds of jews of Banu Qurayza ordered by the very founder of islam.

    I don't think there should be a Palestinian state or a Jewish State. Just one secular state (with no religious privileges/discrimination) with no reference to either of the previous nationalist movements as that would only piss people off. However will this happen any time soon with the fundamentalists that exist on both sides ?
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #3 - December 20, 2013, 05:46 PM

    Quote
    Also I always found it amusing how nearly everyone thinks Palestine is an Arab cause considering there's no letter in the arab language which pronounces P. Which is why non-english speaking people who jump on the bandwagon pronounce it as "Falasteen". Prior to the formation of the Palestinian Nationalism Movement deciding to use that term for the creation of their movement, many arabs considered "Palestine" a dirty word that they had contempt for as it was a European term that European Romans used to rename land they had won and made into a colony in imperial advances.


    Palestine and filasteen are the same name, Its like Moses, Moshe, and Musa.

    Quote
    I don't think there should be a Palestinian state or a Jewish State. Just one secular state (with no religious privileges/discrimination) with no reference to either of the previous nationalist movements as that would only piss people off. However will this happen any time soon with the fundamentalists that exist on both sides ?

    Yeah fundamentalists do already exist on both sides.

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #4 - December 20, 2013, 05:53 PM

    There are many tangled webs in the wars of people.
    My brother-in-law's neice was killed by a homicide bomber at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.  Yes I said homicide bomber were many would have said suicide bomber. Indeed the bomber commented suicide as well but to focus on that takes away for the intent of his action to destory as many other lifes as possible.
    My grandparents on my Mom's side were Jewish. For that the nation of israel would give me citizenship. The religion of Judaism would see me as a revert not a convert should I choose to practice it. I however am another religion that doesn't that part in war no matter what nation we live in. Each and every one of us are conscientious objectors.
    In each an every war of mankind both sides seem to have their cause. They have their reason to continue the fight. They can point to any number of injustices that been carried out over untold generations. However as long as resolution is sought by war both sides will loose.
    As you pointed out small children being taught to hate.
    As you pointed out homes being grabbed away.
    In the territories that Israel gave back to the Palestinians there were beautiful greenhouse complexes that could have been use to produce food. Instead the Palestinians televised themselves destroying them because they didn't want any Israeli trash on their land. Say what?!? How narrow can you get?
    Another thing I often ask questions about especially of official of Arab countries. You berate Isreal for not give Palestinians citizenship but why don't you let them legally immigrate to your country? I actually don't know if this is still true. I don't keep up as much as I use to before Marla's murder.
    At some point nationalism must give way to something more reasonable.
    There was an old hippie saying, "What if they had a war and no one came?"

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #5 - December 20, 2013, 06:12 PM

    Quote
    Another thing I often ask questions about especially of official of Arab countries. You berate Isreal for not give Palestinians citizenship but why don't you let them legally immigrate to your country? I actually don't know if this is still true.


    Yeah I don't support arab countries as well. My grandfather still hates Nasser.

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #6 - December 20, 2013, 06:46 PM

    *sigh* Atleast it looks like the conflict isnt any worse at the moment than it was some years ago . Its the whole concept of choosing sides . Plus the problems faced by both palestenian kids as well as israel kids coz of their fucked up histories created by their forefather's . As you have mentioned its a web of war and hatred that fuels it . Hope atleast in the distant future people can come into common terms like an independent palestinian state and the compromising of the west back .
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #7 - December 20, 2013, 10:03 PM

    This belongs here:

    http://www.onevoicemovement.org/

    Quote
    OneVoice is an international movement of people fed up with the ongoing conflict. We are ready and eager to support a serious process leading to a comprehensive agreement fulfilling the hopes and beliefs of both the Palestinian and the Israeli peoples for a two-state solution to end the conflict, and establish a viable and independent Palestinian state that lives at peace and security with Israel.

    While the needs and concerns of the Israeli and Palestinian peoples are different - Israelis wish to end terror and the existential threat to Israel; Palestinians wish to end the occupation and achieve an independent Palestinian state - the vast majority on each side agrees that these goals are achievable only by reaching a two-state solution.  What remains is to demonstrate to the elected leadership on each side that Israelis and Palestinians want a negotiated two state agreemeent, and overwhelmingly support immediate negotiations toward that goal.  Mobilizing civil society to this effect is OneVoice's aim.

    Our mission: To amplify the voice of mainstream Israelis and Palestinians, empowering them to propel their elected representatives toward a two-state solution. The Movement works to forge consensus for conflict resolution and build a human infrastructure capable of mobilizing the people toward a negotiated, comprehensive and permanent agreement between Israel and Palestine that ends the occupation, ensures security and peace for both sides, and solves all final-status issues in accordance with international law and previous bilateral agreements. The 1967 borders form the basis for the establishment of an independent, viable Palestinian state, with permanent borders and any modifications to be agreed upon by both parties. The Movement recognizes that violence by either side will never be a means to end the conflict.

    Achieving the final status agreement is going to be a challenging and complicated process, requiring extraordinary creativity and courage. OneVoice believes in the power of the people to take part in the decision making process, demand accountability from their leaders, and create a historic change. While each side clearly has its own perspective, OneVoice is certain that there is a mutually acceptable solution that can accommodate the positions of both sides.

    To implement its mission, OneVoice utilizes a four-pronged approach: recruitment, civic engagement & education, youth leadership, and mobilization. Our activities are coordinated from our regional offices in Tel Aviv and Ramallah, with international headquarters in New York and London.

    Our work is designed to:
    Build a mass grassroots movement that will amplify the voice of the moderates on both sides;
    Show that there are partners for negotiations and peace on both sides;
    Mobilize citizens to urge and support their leaders to achieve a two-state solution that permanently ends the conflict -- ending the occupation and all forms of violence, and achieving international recognition, security, respect, peace, and prosperity for the Israeli and Palestinian people;
    Include international and independent efforts to mobilize civil society;
    Build understanding that for the majority of Palestinians, peace is predicated on the need to end occupation and establish a viable independent Palestinian state, based on the 1967 borders and a resolution of the permanent status issues in accordance with international resolutions;
    Build understanding that for the majority of Israelis, peace is predicated on the need to ensure secure borders that will bring an end to all forms of violence, establishing a permanent end to the conflict, and guaranteeing mutual recognition and normal relations with their neighbors;
    Build understanding that an agreement will not be achieved without difficult compromises on core issues like settlements, Jerusalem, refugees, borders, and mutual recognition;
    Build understanding that absolutism, violence and war will NOT resolve the conflict and will only bring more violence and suffering to people on both sides.

    OneVoice is unique because:
    We have independent Israeli & Palestinian offices appealing to the national interests of their own sides with credentials enabling them to unite people across the religious and political spectrum.
    We are not a dialogue group. We recognize the essential work many other groups do in the field of dialogue and understanding; but OneVoice is action-oriented and advocacy-driven.
    We are about the process and demanding accountability from ourselves and from political leaders. A peace agreement, no matter how comprehensive, will be ineffective without populations ready to support it. Our focus is on giving citizens a voice and a direct role in conflict resolution.

    Recognition we’ve received: World Association of NGOs WANGO Peace & Security Award (2004); Catholic Theological Union “Blessed are the Peacemakers Award” (2004); King Hussein Humanitarian Leadership Prize, awarded by the Hashemite Royal Family of Jordan (2005); Fast Company/Monitor Group Social Capitalist Award (2007-8); Skoll Award for Social Entrepreneurship (2008-11), UN Alliance of Civilizations Intercultural Innovation Award (2009).


    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #8 - December 21, 2013, 01:24 PM

    I do not support either "nation". The amount of propaganda, false information and down right ignorance of the history behind the conflict is mind boggling. The cries of "The West stole our land" and "It's the Promised land" is just such rhetoric which keeps people from actually solving issues that would benefit both sides. It's all or nothing from both sides of ultra conservative/reactionary bodies. Also the issue with neighboring nations not giving a hoot about the reality on the ground combined with the ignorance of this fact doesn't spur me to side with either political body. Until moderates on both sides clean their own house by not electing conservatives/reactionary which cry foul every chance they get what is the point in supporting anyone? I feel for those caught in the middle but I just have to say they need to do something for themselves at some point. Something constructive that is not undermined by the next radical elected to office.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #9 - December 21, 2013, 03:53 PM

    In the end, I supppse it doesn't matter what solution those of us who don't live there favor.The people who live there need to come to a reasonable solution. To be totally apathetic about international situation would also not be a good idea. We live on a small world where the actions of even a small nation could have far reaching effects.
    Propaganda?  False history? It's sometimes difficult in the relm of history to determine what is true. What one person claims isn't true might just be the true history as viewed from the people on the other side of the battle. It's possible to sort it out. It takes some effort. More effort then most people could put in for every conflict that is occurring on the earth at any given time. So yeah some of them we'll choose to be less interested in. Other situation choose us because of where we live or our family history or any number of other reasons.
    The part of my family that actively is involved with Israel are advocates of a united Israel. They see this as best solution because it has something to do with the control of Jerusalem, which I don't exactly understand.
    As for myself killing people is not the way to resolve any thing. 

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #10 - December 21, 2013, 06:29 PM

    I think you are confusing apathy with my views. It is not that I do not care at all. I just think external support for the major political bodies is futile. I do not support the "nation" but those caught in and between the two "nations". I just think those in the middle need a reality slap. They need to take control of their destiny so to speak. Take stock of the situation and create political bodies that will represent them. They can not do this if they elect political bodies which hold their ideals more sacred than anything else. Besides the statue quo keeps these bodies in power, why would one risk a change which could result in a potential lose of power. Both sides need to remove the "old guard" mentality. These factions are products of their time, they part of the conflict so are part of the issue itself.

    Much of the conflicts history is shrouded in idealistic concepts, a distortion of history and ignorance of the political influences. Keep in mind this whole conflict started during the formation of new nations and their identities. These national identities are part mythos and part reality which contribute to this conflict. This allows both sides to claim the "moral" high ground and use it to rally support.

    The continued progress of phased autonomy needs to continue, it is the only solution which has resulted in positive gains. First in local government, district then regional. Economic development needs to be nurtured in Palestine before any sort of state is formed. Israeli still has control of key infrastructure which in a two state solution can be used as leverage politically and economically. Israeli can cripple any new formed Palestine by denying access to water and power. This system needs to be phased out and replaced. The violence on both sides needs to stop or it will always be used as an excuse while also containing factions which use violence. Both sides need to restrain these elements.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #11 - December 21, 2013, 07:34 PM

    Quote from: serpentofeden
    I don't think there should be a Palestinian state or a Jewish State. Just one secular state (with no religious privileges/discrimination) with no reference to either of the previous nationalist movements as that would only piss people off. However will this happen any time soon with the fundamentalists that exist on both sides ?

    One Palestinian state would have Arab majority. We all know that there is not one Arab country which is secular. Every Arab country denies the religious and political rights to Jews and Christians. There are laws in every Arab country which forbid Jews from owning a property. Every Arab country does not allow Christians and Jews to build new churches and synagogues. In one "secular" Palestine, Jews will become second class citizens. On the contrary, legally, Arabs are equal citizens of Israel. There are Arab political parties which contest elections. There are Arabs sitting in the Israelis parliament. We cannot deny the fact that Israel treats its Arab citizens far better than how non-Muslims are treated in Arab countries.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #12 - December 21, 2013, 07:48 PM

    As an Atheist, I generally don't like either side in this conflict, as it went from ethnic nationalist/political disagreements to being a religious war over who's holiest.  That being said, what we need to do in "the West" is to push for a two-state solution and ignore the demagogues and extremist on all sides.

    By now I don't think the solution can look ideal or even very pretty.  Would one secular state for all be the most ideal option?  Yes, but is it realistic or probable, at least for the time being no.

    Ironically I largely agree with the "extremist" Norman Finklestein here: youtube.com watch?v=Ol8xhTySKfM
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #13 - December 21, 2013, 08:42 PM

    .

    Ironically I largely agree with the "extremist" Norman Finklestein here: youtube.com watch?v=Ol8xhTySKfM


    those who are interested in this Israel -Palestine problem should scan through the link

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #14 - December 21, 2013, 09:04 PM

     That is an unlikely situation that would deny either Palestine or Israel polical allies. Something that I suppose won't happen.
    It isn't as if there were not any Jews in the area and suddenly they appeared with the formatiom of the modern Israel. My great grandparents thought of immigrating there instead of the US when my grandfather was a child. That was before the 2nd world war. I'll have to check who had a government in that area then.  Anyhow it seems it wasn't to stable an area then either. If you ask any person with even one Jewish parent  they've likely heard version of story about someday returning to the "promised land". Except me and my siblings. We were always told there would never be peace in the middle east because there were to many unreasoning people. Despite having heard that since childhood I'm forever hopeful that reason amd tolerance might take over and people will stop killing people.
    Indeed if the area became controlled by an Arab/Muslim government would Jews or Christians or Athiests still have any rights. Like they do now in Israel.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #15 - December 21, 2013, 09:39 PM

    Quote
    those who are interested in this Israel -Palestine problem should scan through the link


    I'm actually pro neither.  For example, for every fanatical intolerant screaming imam talking about jihad and genocide you can find an equally crazy and screaming rabbi talking about the "promised land" and genocide.  I honestly do not think either side has the moral high ground.  I would actually support the UN setting up a demilitarized zone between the two countries where any radical extremist groups who try to start the conflict again are shot on sight, or dealt with in some other manner and both Israelis and Palestinians being forced to get along and slowly integrate. 

    This will never happen, of course, so the best solution is some amicable two-state solution where they can live separately in peace and with their own autonomy.  The Palestinians are horribly oppressed, no doubt, but the Israelis also have a legal claim to their country and have a right not to be attacked and killed in their own country, so in the end, I think neither side has the moral high ground.

    Quote
    Indeed if the area became controlled by an Arab/Muslim government would Jews or Christians or Athiests still have any rights. Like they do now in Israel.


    Israel's treatment of minorities, perhaps minus the "Occupied Territories" is better than most ME governments, but it's nothing to scream home about either.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #16 - December 22, 2013, 02:03 AM

     grin12 Perhaps a two state resolution could work.
    In one state every reasonable, tolerant person of what ever ancestry or belief or lack there of can live and establish their government. This will be the state that controls Jerusalem. To determine if you and your family belong in this state in addition to ap plying you'd have to pass rigorous psychological testing to determine that you real aren't an extremist. (Might have to have a law that militant extremists and hate monger must be deported to the state)
    The other state which would have to walled around would be for everyone who wants to resolve the issue by war and violence or who promotes, preaches or teaches hate mongering and prejudice against any other group in the region using violent tactics. Of course any of these people can move to the other state at any time by renouncing their violent hateful ways and passing the psychological testing. There could be schools to help them. They could also win periodic visiting to Jerusalem by keeping their state at peace. Other then that no assistance of any kind could ve given them but selling them more war equitment. I don't think would take long for them to kill each other off or start applying to move out because of the horrible conditions.
     finmad oh okay. In the first state where everyone is living together it might help if there were time out zones. Like the ancient nation of Israel had cities of refuge where accidental man slayers could go to be safe from the avenger of blood. But there would be more these time out zones and each group would have one in each city and rural region. Depending on the population need a city block or less. Someplace where you don't have to worry about someone Merry Christmasing you when you would rather be Happy Chanukahed or left alone.
    Okay well while people where putting ideas I thought I'd try one.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #17 - December 22, 2013, 02:21 AM

    I think at this point, the only true solution is education, but that's a generational solution which is slow and difficult to achieve.  I think there has to be a peace, however imperfect, and then a massive campaign of education and building of opportunities to change the mindsets and attitudes of people in Palestine/Israel.  That would take generations though, and it will be ever so difficult with the religiosity on both sides...

    I also think the US has to cut much of its support for Israel, alongside a true disarmament of the Palestinians.  But in the end, it's going to be up to them.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #18 - December 22, 2013, 08:21 AM

    One Palestinian state would have Arab majority. We all know that there is not one Arab country which is secular. Every Arab country denies the religious and political rights to Jews and Christians. There are laws in every Arab country which forbid Jews from owning a property. Every Arab country does not allow Christians and Jews to build new churches and synagogues. In one "secular" Palestine, Jews will become second class citizens. On the contrary, legally, Arabs are equal citizens of Israel. There are Arab political parties which contest elections. There are Arabs sitting in the Israelis parliament. We cannot deny the fact that Israel treats its Arab citizens far better than how non-Muslims are treated in Arab countries.


    Where to begin.....
    well Arabs don't get treated that great in Israel
    Quote
    because Palestinian Arabs have not been represented at the Ministry of Education's highest levels, their voices are often not heard. For example, Minister of Education, Limor Livnat, stated in June 2001 that she would like to see that "there is not a single child in Israel" who did not learn "Jewish and Zionist knowledge and values," but then explained that she did not include Palestinian Arab students in this statement.60\\ In the same year, the head of the Educational Authority for Bedouins, Moshe Shohat, who is Jewish, spoke of "blood-thirsty Bedouins who commit polygamy, have 30 children and continue to expand their illegal settlements, taking over state land." When questioned about providing indoor plumbing in Bedouin schools, he responded: "In their culture they take care of their needs outdoors. They don't even know how to flush a toilet." Shohat later apologized for his statements.

    Palestinian Arabs have the right to fair representation in the education system under international and domestic law. Article 2(3) of the 1992 General Assembly Declaration on the Rights of Persons Belonging to National or Ethnic, Religious or Linguistic Minorities provides: "Persons belonging to minorities have the right to participate effectively in decisions on the national and, where appropriate, regional level concerning the minority to which they belong[.]" The Israeli High Court of Justice ruled on July 9, 2001, in a decision regarding the Israel Lands Administration Board, that Palestinian Arab citizens are entitled to fair representation in public bodies, especially those vested with decision-making powers, and stated that affirmative action was required. However, the Court also stated that "fair representation" did not necessarily mean one-fifth, (the percentage of Palestinian Arabs in the Israeli population), and the Court did not require the government to implement the ruling immediately.

    Often because the school system is worse for arabs, they have a tremendously greater chance of dropping out of high school.
    Here is where I took the quote from
    http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/
    Yeah maybe Human Rights Watch is just some pro arab thing I guess.
    Also maybe in saudi arabia, but most arab countries have christian communities. So no its not illegal to build a christian church. Israel is really no better then arab countries, keep in mind its the only country that has invaded all of its neighbors.

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #19 - December 22, 2013, 12:47 PM

    Yeah, Israel's treatment of minorities is hardly better than its neighbors, and if you include the occupied territories, they're actually worse than many of its neighbors. 
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #20 - December 22, 2013, 12:54 PM

    Not to mention how they are expelling all those from Africa that have come seeking political asylum by the droves.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #21 - December 22, 2013, 01:16 PM

    Israel recently had massive race riots over the Sudanese refugees, if I'm not mistaken.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #22 - December 22, 2013, 03:32 PM

    So are you against Israel because it can't solve every problem confronting it?
    Would that mean that any government should have to be able to resolve any issue to continue existing?
    If that is the standard ever government currently in existence would be scheduled to be desolved.
    Sudan has had a few civil wars in the last several  decades and "droves" of it's citizens requesting asylum in other nations. Should it not be a fault of Sudan not of the nations that refuse these refugees.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #23 - December 22, 2013, 04:33 PM

    I think both sides just need a big hug.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #24 - December 22, 2013, 06:54 PM

    Sam Brent, I did not say that Arabs are treated equally in Israel. I said "LEGALLY" Arabs have the same rights. LEGAL equality is not synonomous with ACTUAL equality. But at least the LAWS are there in Israel which are to be applied equally, at least in THEORY. I think that not one single Arab living in Israel would want to move to any Arab country, inspite of being second class citizen.

    On the contrary, the discrimination against non-Muslims in Arab countries is SANCTIFIED by law - it is institutionalized. That's the difference. As a non-Jew and non-Muslim, I would be safer living in Israel than in any Arab country. In Israel, I will not be afraid to live openly as a Hindu. I may not be accepted, but I will not be threatened - I cannot say the same about any Muslim country, Arab or non-Arab.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #25 - December 22, 2013, 08:00 PM

    To be honest, I prefer just to stay out of the whole thing.  Obviously being in a Muslim family and community, Israel isn't talked about too kindly but I'd sooner keep an open mind.  I don't know enough about the whole subject to judge and I imagine it all depends on who you listen to.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #26 - December 22, 2013, 08:40 PM

    To be honest, I prefer just to stay out of the whole thing.  Obviously being in a Muslim family and community, Israel isn't talked about too kindly but I'd sooner keep an open mind.  I don't know enough about the whole subject to judge and I imagine it all depends on who you listen to.

    Okay Sufi what I don't understand is why you say "Obviously being in a Muslim family and community, Israel isn't spoken of very kindly..."
    Is it obvious? I think not.
    I've already said my relative was murdered by a homicide bomber.
    My family in general doesn't speak poorly of Palestinians. There is a great frustration with radicals that choose to use random bombing of random innocent individuals whose invoivements are unknown. We fnd it a very sad situation indeed that Palestinian families feel their situation is such that they must sacrifice their.children in such a way. A good many of my family are conscientious objectors due to our religious beliefs. We know of Palestinians and Israelis who are friends and do work together. Jews, Muslims, Christians and Secularists.
    Bit really why would it be obvious just because some one is Muslim they would speak poorly of Israel?

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #27 - December 22, 2013, 08:48 PM

    Actually Lynna, you're right.  I was really stereotyping there, which is kinda ironic considering I'm still technically Muslim.  I was really only speaking from my own perspective among my own circle.  Should have put it better.
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #28 - December 22, 2013, 09:26 PM

    I think both sides just need a big hug.

     

    and an army of therapists

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • What do you all think about the israel-palestine conflict ?
     Reply #29 - December 22, 2013, 09:51 PM

    That's okay Sufi. To actual say out loud or in writing what you do think sometimes makes it more visible. To have only traveled in our own little social circles sometimes doesn't allow us to see the other persons as clearly as we should. When I was young I didn't realize that in many ways my life was unique. I'm mixed race and mixed religion. Jewish grandparents, Jehovah Witness grandmother,  Christian Father, Atheist Stepfather, Muslim high school, Christian College, totally allowed make my religious choice, sibling that chose Atheism, fundamental Christianity, Judaism and Jehovah's Witnesses. So I've never had the disadvantage of a mono culture.
    Sometimes we just need to hear ourself say stuff. After we say it we still might be okay with it but at others we might want to re-evaluate.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »