first LGBT masjid in France

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- Cornflower
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first LGBT masjid in France
OP - November 19, 2013, 12:37 PM

Don't know if you've heard, but France got its first mosque with a LGBT certificate some time ago. Their imam is a gay ex salafi who turned to Buddhism and then returned to Islam after many years. Listened to an interview with him where he said being a Muslim was so naturally a part of him. Leaving was like "cutting of your arm, you just can't do that".

Personally, I don't see how people from the LGBT community can overlook or ignore the anti gay texts and Islams rigid view and definition of gender and sexuality. But what really caught my attention was the "natural part of me" comment. As a convert, I feel like Islam was more unnatural as a lifestyle than anything. It was often contradictory to the lifestyle and values I grew up with. How do you, both longtimed converts and "born"Muslims feel about Islam and its "natural" part of your identity or worldview? Is it perhaps because Islam is such a big part of certain culture, or is it something entirely else?

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Reply #1 - November 19, 2013, 03:42 PM

Any websites or links related to that place I'm curious :O

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Reply #2 - November 19, 2013, 03:53 PM

Surprised you've never heard of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20547335

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #3 - November 19, 2013, 04:02 PM

Earlier mentioned here:
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22511.0

The whole thing about who is gay or not is kind of complex as people look differently on it in different parts of the world. Here, in the west, a man who prefers men is identified as gay and identifies himself as gay. This isn't necessarily the case elsewhere. In more macho countries you can, as a man, have sex with other men but still not consider yourself gay, or you identify yourself as straight because you only have the dominant part in the sexual act (not gay as long as you're not penetrated). Egypt comes to mind.

I don't see how you can manage to make your different worlds live side by side as a gay Muslim. I can't think of a more natural departure point from Islam than realising that you belong to a sexual minority but I haven't seen any statistics for this. Still, persons like Irsjad Manji can make it work seemingly effortlessly.

Homan in Sweden wants to open a gay friendly Mosque on the west coast (Gothenburg):
http://www.homan.se/English.htm
Article in Swedish
- Cornflower
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Reply #4 - November 19, 2013, 04:20 PM

Thanks for the link. Haven't find the discussion earlier.
No I've heard about gay Muslims and masajid before, but I just find it odd how you on one hand accept the divine nature of Quran and prophethood of Muhammad and on the other hand try to ignore its homophobic content and message.

"Gayness" as an identity is not the same, but sex with the same gender is never allowed in Islamic sources so whether you identify yourself as gay or not isn't rellevant. I think that sexuality is highly fluid and a person is never just one thing. But how do you reconcile the apparent contradiction especially when you identify yourself as a gay man/woman/trangendered?

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Reply #5 - November 19, 2013, 06:50 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on November 19, 2013, 12:37 PM
How do you, both longtimed converts and "born"Muslims feel about Islam and its "natural" part of your identity or worldview? Is it perhaps because Islam is such a big part of certain culture, or is it something entirely else?

It's habit. You are raised seeing the world a certain way, doing certain rituals. It's just comforting to you after such a long time and reminds you of "home".

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Reply #6 - November 19, 2013, 06:53 PM

Another LGBT friendly imam where I live that interprets the Quran to fit his worldview - glad to see Islam progressing

http://theinnercircle.org.za/
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Reply #7 - November 19, 2013, 08:52 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on November 19, 2013, 04:20 PM
Thanks for the link. Haven't find the discussion earlier.
No I've heard about gay Muslims and masajid before, but I just find it odd how you on one hand accept the divine nature of Quran and prophethood of Muhammad and on the other hand try to ignore its homophobic content and message.

"Gayness" as an identity is not the same, but sex with the same gender is never allowed in Islamic sources so whether you identify yourself as gay or not isn't rellevant. I think that sexuality is highly fluid and a person is never just one thing. But how do you reconcile the apparent contradiction especially when you identify yourself as a gay man/woman/trangendered?

I guess it is the whole 'What would Mohammed say about this today?' kind of thing. Yes he said that then, reason it away with needed to expand numbers of muslims (or other vague reasonings), point to the progression from societies before Islam therefore imply that Islam set the ball rolling so Mohammed if alive today would say' homosexuality isn't too bad'. I think that is how the mental gymnastics work, and also the want to carry on with the rituals, cause tbh it is nice to have a few points in the yr where you celebrate or commemorate something.
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Reply #8 - November 19, 2013, 09:19 PM

what was muslims' reaction to this'? By "muslims" I mean those who follow the Quran's teachings properly
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Reply #9 - November 19, 2013, 09:20 PM

Something along the lines of "I keel you!" I expect.

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Reply #10 - November 19, 2013, 09:48 PM

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #11 - November 20, 2013, 03:02 AM

Quote from: Lilyesque on November 19, 2013, 08:52 PM
I guess it is the whole 'What would Mohammed say about this today?' kind of thing. Yes he said that then, reason it away with needed to expand numbers of muslims (or other vague reasonings), point to the progression from societies before Islam therefore imply that Islam set the ball rolling so Mohammed if alive today would say' homosexuality isn't too bad'. I think that is how the mental gymnastics work, and also the want to carry on with the rituals, cause tbh it is nice to have a few points in the yr where you celebrate or commemorate something.

Bingo, all it really comes down to is imposing ones views on to a figure not present in a world with such views. This contradicts the idea he is the best example of mankind and also the idea Islam is the proper way of life for humanity. A "what if" scenario with 20/20 hindsight which contradicts the idea of an all knowing God and his "book".
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Reply #12 - November 20, 2013, 04:01 AM

Quote from: Cornflower on November 19, 2013, 12:37 PM
Don't know if you've heard, but France got its first mosque with a LGBT certificate some time ago. Their imam is a gay ex salafi who turned to Buddhism and then returned to Islam after many years. Listened to an interview with him where he said being a Muslim was so naturally a part of him. Leaving was like "cutting of your arm, you just can't do that".

Personally, I don't see how people from the LGBT community can overlook or ignore the anti gay texts and Islams rigid view and definition of gender and sexuality. But what really caught my attention was the "natural part of me" comment. As a convert, I feel like Islam was more unnatural as a lifestyle than anything. It was often contradictory to the lifestyle and values I grew up with. How do you, both longtimed converts and "born"Muslims feel about Islam and its "natural" part of your identity or worldview? Is it perhaps because Islam is such a big part of certain culture, or is it something entirely else?

It is so deep inside me, I can feel it in my bones. I am fighting it off every damn day. I don't know if it is part of my structure, or a cancer. I don't know why or how it has meshed itself onto my being. I was a convert. I am getting better, it is slow. I hope to be able to look at DA, comfortably, when he gets here. I still cannot look at Muslim men, as of now.

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Reply #13 - December 23, 2013, 01:13 AM

Personally, I don't see how people from the LGBT community can overlook or ignore the anti gay texts and Islams rigid view and definition of gender and sexuality

Muslims who belong to the LGBT community overlook the homophobic texts in the Quran just as much as Christians who belong to the LGBT community do.

And Islam was unnatural to me after I had began to learn to reason, so around the age of 12-13. I don't find that it's a 'part of me', not at all. It's a repugnant religion. However, since I was indoctrinated to believe that I would burn in hell if I were to commit any kind of sin, I still from day to day wonder if hell exists and if I'm going to burn there, even though I realize how illogical the idea is. I know Islam is a scar I'll have to carry around. For instance, when I eat bacon or drink, I think of Islam and I think of all the threats I had been given.

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