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 Topic: Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam

 (Read 6581 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     OP - December 02, 2013, 02:30 AM
    Surah 65 verse 4 allows you to marry and divorce girls that haven't had their periods yet, far as I recall. Any takers on this topic?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #1 - December 02, 2013, 02:54 AM
    I don't mind trying. I just read it, and it says those who have not menstruated. Which does happen at older ages, there are some adults who have not.
    I am reading translation, though, and that has done me in, previously.
    I am following.

    Answering Islam has interesting bits on it.

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Versions/065.004.html
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #2 - December 02, 2013, 04:36 AM
    Quran.com has a few different translations: http://quran.com/65/4

    Sahih International
    And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.

    Muhsin Khan
    And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.

    Pickthall
    And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.

    Yusuf Ali
    Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

    Shakir
    And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

    Dr. Ghali
    And as for those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, in case you have any suspicion, then their (fixed) spell shall be three months, (along) with those who have not menstruated (as yet). And (as for) those with burden, (i.e., those who are pregnant) their term is when they bring forth their burden; and whoever is pious to Allah, He will make for him, of His Command, easiness.


    The highlighted translations seem to be talking about underage/pre-pubescent girls. The others are more vague. Arabic speakers, would love to hear your opinions.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #3 - December 02, 2013, 05:59 AM
    It's moved? How come religion and gods wasn't the place, as it's discussing scripture rather than social issues?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #4 - December 02, 2013, 10:48 AM
    I just came across an Arabic speaker who claims that since the word for woman is used in this (Nisa) that it cannot be applied to a child.
    I trust someone to address this.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #5 - December 02, 2013, 11:34 AM
    Well only women can be married. This is a way of saying girls that are 9 (lunar) years old can be called women.
    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #6 - December 02, 2013, 01:24 PM
    Quote from: three on December 02, 2013, 10:48 AM
    I just came across an Arabic speaker who claims that since the word for woman is used in this (Nisa) that it cannot be applied to a child.
    I trust someone to address this.

    Yes, he is right. But remember, a child becomes a woman according to shariah law if any one of the signs of puberty has shown. Pubic hairs, "wet dream", menstruation and if none of those then when she reaches the age of 15. As a woman, you know that pubes most often arrive before menstruation.

    Aisha probably didn't menstruate. And even if she did, I remember myself and the transformation I went through before and after I got my first period. The fact that someone even can get it up for a child that has just started showing signs of puberty is borderline to pedophelia. Unfortunately, the outdated shariah "normalizes" this behaviour until it's the norm in the society regardless if that was practiced before Islam or not. A salafi convert once told me that her husband had watched their barely 10 year old daughter and said that some of his friends would actually be interested in marrying her ("alhamdulillah for the hijab"). The kid had put on some makeup and wore a dress. The disgusting part was that even then, you clearly saw she was just 10 years old... that's what Islam turnes you into. A fucking moron.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #7 - December 02, 2013, 07:50 PM
    Why do religions focus so much on sexuality?
    O.o

  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #8 - December 02, 2013, 07:59 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on December 02, 2013, 07:50 PM
    Why do religions focus so much on sexuality?
    O.o

    because if you control sexual habits/actions/rules/preferences/whatever/  you can control the society ., In fact you can control everything including "Biological Evolution" on this earth...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #9 - December 02, 2013, 08:06 PM
    Religions are meant to be something more philosophical stuff instead of this crap.

    "To marry or not to marry a pre-menstruating girl"
    Pfft
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #10 - December 03, 2013, 02:24 AM
    Quote from: INcePtion on December 02, 2013, 07:50 PM
    Why do religions focus so much on sexuality?
    O.o




    Best con the religious ever did: nature is evil. If I could convince you breathing was a sin I'd never be out of business.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #11 - December 03, 2013, 08:35 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 03, 2013, 02:24 AM
    Best con the religious ever did: nature is evil. If I could convince you breathing was a sin I'd never be out of business.


    Well I personally think it is. Now Quod the ball is in your court.

    Now prove me wrong. Do it! Do it!
    [/u][/i][/b]
     This is sparta This is sparta

    See you can't, thus I win

    The above statement is from the DBAer's

     Cheesy Cheesy
    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #12 - December 03, 2013, 08:36 AM
    Damn I still need to learn how to use the toolbar Embarrassed
    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #13 - December 03, 2013, 08:44 AM
    The above illustrates perfectly why I reject the entre concept of religious sin.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #14 - December 03, 2013, 10:39 AM
    It is haram to breathe through the left nostril because things on the left are of shattan?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #15 - December 03, 2013, 07:18 PM
    The verse almost certainly refers to women who have not menstruated yet.

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir—Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah [see 2:228]. The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause.

    Tafsir al-Jalalayn—And [as for] those of your women who (read allà'ï or allà'i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months.

    Tafsir Ibn Abbas—(And for such of your women as despair of menstruation) because of old age, (if ye doubt) about their waiting period, (their period (of waiting) shall be three months) upon which another man asked: "O Messenger of Allah! What about the waiting period of those who do not have menstruation because they are too young?" (along with those who have it not) because of young age, their waiting period is three months.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #16 - December 03, 2013, 11:52 PM
    Thank you, kutta, my friend.
    I am using this in an argument, tonight. I appreciate you providing this research. 
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #17 - December 03, 2013, 11:54 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 03, 2013, 08:44 AM
    The above illustrates perfectly why I reject the entre concept of religious sin.


     Cheesy
    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #18 - December 06, 2013, 06:27 PM
    Quote from: three on December 03, 2013, 11:52 PM
    Thank you, kutta, my friend.
    I am using this in an argument, tonight. I appreciate you providing this research. 


    So how'd that go?

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 02, 2013, 05:59 AM
    It's moved? How come religion and gods wasn't the place, as it's discussing scripture rather than social issues?


    Still curious about this.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #19 - December 06, 2013, 08:05 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 06, 2013, 06:27 PM
    So how'd that go?

    Still curious about this.


    What happened is that then she pulled out the "but the verbage used in the Quran does not address small girls" argument.
    So I explained patiently that being married makes you a Mrs. I have heard this referenced in three other languages, and in those same languages, an unmarried woman, who was never married, no matter her age, is referred to as a girl. So you have forty year old women who are still girls, and nine year old wives who are Mrs.
    We will see where it goes. Now I am getting "I am a progressive pick and choose Muslim and it's all about personal opinion".
    Neat way to discount centuries of Islamic thought.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #20 - December 06, 2013, 08:13 PM
    Lol yeah. Though I have to say I don't understand her point. If an unmarried woman is still a girl, all it really says to me is that it's talking about anyone and everyone female, from 0-130 years old.

    So yeah, the hell is her point supposed to be?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #21 - December 06, 2013, 08:27 PM
    Her point is that Islam, when filtered through your own stubborn refusal to believe the words in front of her own eyes, is a rosy peaceful religion.
    She might be crazy. She might be Progressive. Her intentions are good, but her self delusion is complete. I will not get through, for sure, but at least I can solidify my own arguments.
    I started out in layman's terms in English and now I am reduced to citing proof out of Quran and Hadith.
    She rejects Hadith, but claims she is not a Quranist.
    My head is going to connect with the wall, repeatedly, if she keeps this up.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #22 - December 06, 2013, 08:41 PM
    Atheists often feel this way Cheesy
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #23 - December 06, 2013, 08:44 PM
    My empathy is deep.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #24 - December 06, 2013, 08:53 PM
    When it comes to religion people are twats. Tell people someone down the street tried to kill their child, rape, enslave, ethnic clensing, genocide, the shit will quite rightly hit the fan. Say it was some wanker 1000+ years ago who happens to be in a holy book, they switch off.

    Question I got asked a few months ago: "If god came to you and told you to sacrifice your son for him like he did Abraham, what would you do?"
    My reply: "I'd tell him to fuck off."
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #25 - December 06, 2013, 09:00 PM
    I keep telling people, these laws in Quran, making what is wrong permissible, think of how many millions of little girls it has affected, how many apostates, through the centuries.
    Child educators tell me that empathy is decreasing rapidly in modern society. Maybe that explains it.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #26 - December 06, 2013, 09:07 PM
    Really? I don't think empathy is decreasing.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #27 - December 06, 2013, 09:09 PM
    You may be interested in this. Rather interesting thread on the houris.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=7635.0
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #28 - December 06, 2013, 09:17 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 06, 2013, 09:07 PM
    Really? I don't think empathy is decreasing.


    Look at it from the juvenile criminal courts point of view, and you might change your mind. I am sure everyone is aware of the senseless violence in the US, much of it involving children, on both sides.
    Criminals are getting younger.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Sex with pre-menstruating girls in islam
     Reply #29 - December 07, 2013, 08:47 AM
    Not really. Have a look into criminal records in the 1800s.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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