Ex-Salafy / Ex Revert

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Reply #90 - December 28, 2013, 02:37 AM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 30, 2013, 08:24 AM
Did we highjack his thread and drive him off?

Nope! Just got preoccupied with other things. Christmas break is here and I have a little more free time

Someone asked me if I knew Arabic. The answer is that while I was Muslim I became very proficient in the religious (fusha) Arabic. I read several medieval Arabic books and became familiar with the "classical" opinions (and of a lot of uncomfortable things). But I as time has passed I have not practiced as much, I am not as good as I used to be, but am still pretty proficient in it.

I was very religious and wasted a lot of my good young years learning and propagating something that I today firmly believe is nothing but a bunch of ancient fairy tales. (Speaking of fairies, if Islam had started in Europe, Muslims would believe in them instead of jinn)

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Reply #91 - December 28, 2013, 03:39 AM

Also trolls. And elves.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #92 - December 28, 2013, 08:23 AM

And leprechauns too.

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Reply #93 - December 28, 2013, 06:24 PM

Only in Ireland. Might get dragons.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #94 - December 28, 2013, 06:31 PM

True in both cases.

Of course some Leprechauns would be Muslim!!

If Islam had started in Ireland, then rainbows would probably have special significance as well. Special salaat when a rainbow is seen.

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Reply #95 - December 28, 2013, 06:34 PM

How would the pot of gold bit go? Evil tempters filling your heart with greed, or washing your feet in paradise?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #96 - December 28, 2013, 07:51 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 28, 2013, 06:34 PM
How would the pot of gold bit go? Evil tempters filling your heart with greed, or washing your feet in paradise?

QSE. You know the gold would be taken literally. There would be a special adhan for it, and special prayers for rainbows, like an eclipse. Then everyone would be given their metal detectors.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Reply #97 - December 28, 2013, 08:37 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 28, 2013, 06:34 PM
How would the pot of gold bit go? Evil tempters filling your heart with greed, or washing your feet in paradise?

The pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow, but of course no one can ever find the end of a rainbow. Denying its existence would be kufr. The Islam invented in Ireland's paradise would also be different. Since Ireland is not a desert and has trees and greenery, there wouldn't be any emphasis on gardens and rivers to encourage the believers. Perhaps all the gold you want?

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Reply #98 - December 28, 2013, 09:04 PM

I'd be curious how they'd incorporate the Otherworld.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #99 - December 28, 2013, 10:44 PM

Otherworld would be incorporated a couple of centuries later as the Ireland Islam spreads to other parts of Europe and the scholars read other texts and write hadith to support their claims

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Reply #100 - December 28, 2013, 11:56 PM

Genuinely curious how they'd incorporate it though. Some rather interesting mythology about it.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #101 - December 29, 2013, 12:27 AM

The scholars simply say that this is what it is. If all else fails, forge some hadith (and the isnad along with it) to prove the point.

For those not following my subtle point, this is, in my humble conclusion from my own reading, how beliefs such as Jesus returning, the anti-Christ, and other Christian beliefs got incorporated into Islamic canon. In other words, later Muslim scholars came into contact with Christian scholars and their texts and incorporated/adopted these beliefs into their own (especially since the Qur'an is so lacking in much of this). Just look at Ibn Kathir's tafseer for an example of a scholar who uses Christian apocryphal sources to "fill in the blanks" left by the extremely obscure Qur'an. As time passed, it became dogma and thus unquestioned.

Lots of other stuff was adopted and/or made up along the way as the religion evolved in each of the lands it reached and split into more and more sects.

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Reply #102 - December 29, 2013, 12:35 AM

Isnad is chain of transmission right? How much support/isnad a hadith has it's authentic?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #103 - December 29, 2013, 12:43 AM

Well, supposedly, the chain of narrators in a "sound" (sahih) hadith have impeccable character and memory and are not known to lie - ever. This "science" was invented because there were so many forged hadith (and no one disputes there were many thousands of forged hadith) and to get at what is actually "authentic".

The problem is that if one can forge the hadith, why can't he forge the isnad along with it?

Secondly, as many here know, there are many "authentic" hadith that are patently absurd. So much so that some "modernist" Muslim scholars throw them out just based on the fact that it is so ridiculous. I have documented many of these absurdities on my blog. I hope to collect more as I get time so that this information is duplicated in more and more places

http://irrationalislam.wordpress.com/
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Reply #104 - December 29, 2013, 01:04 AM

And you like Vandal Savage. Hello fellow comic book fan.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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