Pope Francis Signals Remarkable Shift In Priorities For Catholics

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Pope Francis Signals Remarkable Shift In Priorities For Catholics
Reply #60 - September 23, 2013, 06:47 PM

Quote from: Naerys on September 23, 2013, 09:31 AM
This is borderline spamming and against the rules, C1981. Consider this a formal and official warning. Either you post actual content instead of forcing people to visit that stupid website, or you refrain from posting. Next time it will be a smite.

Ok I won't post from that site anymore.
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Pope Francis Signals Remarkable Shift In Priorities For Catholics
Reply #61 - September 23, 2013, 06:59 PM

It is slightly annoying when it's always the same site and it's just a link with no context. Not trying to be mean

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #62 - November 30, 2017, 11:32 AM

A report on Pope Francis and the ‘dirty war’ in Argentina. This is from 2015 but I hadn’t seen the story before.

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/188912/francis-accusers-drop-the-case
Quote
The election of Pope Francis in 2013 was widely welcomed across the world, except for some Argentine human rights advocates who alleged that the then-cardinal Jorge Bergoglio was guilty of having abandoned two Jesuit priests, Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics, during the 1976-83 military dictatorship.

Given that Francis has become an unexpected icon for many left-leaning figures since he was elected as head of Catholic Church, Yorio’s followers are now beginning to split over whether to continue pressing for justice or to consider what happened as water under the bridge. The shift became apparent at an event marking the launch of a new book collecting some of Yorio’s writings, From The Poor To Everyone, that took place over the weekend at the ex-ESMA memorial centre — a former Navy academy used as clandestine concentration camp — where the priest was illegally detained in 1976.

“Although we cannot forget Yorio’s accusations against Bergoglio at that time, I think that the pope had a realization that made him change for the better,” said one of the presenters in the panel, Santa Cruz church affiliate Adolfo Mango to an audience of 30 to 40 people in the Patrick Rice religious centre located in the ex-ESMA, which is now a human rights memorial site.

While a former catequist who use to do social work in shantytowns, and had helped compile the book, said that although Yorio would have never believed that former Archbishop of Buenos Aires Jorge Mario Bergoglio was elected pope, he would approve of what he is doing now and must be influencing him from heaven.

However, others in the audience weren’t at all happy with this line.

“I still can’t believe Bergoglio is pope... I’ll never forget what Yorio told us and other relatives of the victims of the Bajo Flores disappeared that were denied help from Bergoglio... I believe them,” recalled former catechist Sylvia Gerardi, who was married by Yorio and did social work with the priest. Fátima Rice Cabrera, a former victim of crimes against humanity who was married to Rice and organized the event, said that that the Church had not really changed.

“There are two Churches, one that is persecuted, which Orlando Yorio was a part of, and one that continues to conduct the persecution... If they really were serious about change, they would open up the archives now and use all the money they have to create social programmes for the poor,” said Rice Cabrera.

Behind the claims

The accusation originates in May 1976, when Yorio and his colleague Jesuit priest Francisco Jalics were kidnapped with a group of catequists that did social work in the Bajo Flores shantytown, two months after the beginning of the military dictatorship (1976-1983).

After their release, both priests accused Bergoglio — then the provincial head of the Jesuit mission — of giving the military “a green light” to authorizing their kidnapping and cooperating with the military dictatorship that was committing crimes against humanity. Although Jalics later recanted after Bergoglio was elected Pope Francis, despite previously writing several books and publicly accusing him, Yorio who was the most vocal opponent against Bergoglio, continued to speak out against him until his death in 2000.

In 1977, Yorio wrote a 27-page document to the Jesuit company leader in Rome explaining in detail why he believed Bergoglio was involved in his kidnapping and complicity with the last military dictatorship — which he never received a response to.

These accusations were investigated by human rights leader and the CELS (human rights organization) founder Emilio Mignone in his book Witness to the Truth— analyzing the complicity of the church with the military dictatorship — first published in 1986 and then a decade later by journalist and CELS president Horacio Verbitsky.

In 2008, based on these investigations, Bergoglio — who back then was still Archbishop of Buenos Aires — was called to testify in the so-called ESMA trial by human rights lawyer Luis Zamora. However, he was never found guilty of any of the charges.

Days ago, Zamora told the Herald that they were planning to continue the case against Bergoglio, but at the moment they haven’t submitted any further legal action.

Cases against the Church

Although the complicity between the Church and the military dictatorship is well documented, only two priests have been convicted of crimes against humanity since the reopening of trials during the last dictatorship in 2006.

According to the CELS’s annual report released last week, only three percent of civilians charged with crimes against humanity are members of the Catholic Church. Many witnesses have testified seeing priests in clandestine detention centres, trying to obtain information from prisoners while they were tortured and even giving spiritual guidance to the torturers. Several Catholic Church leaders even vocally supported the murder of people based on an ideological war against Communism and left-wing subversion, such as late bishop Victorio Bonamín.

Despite these accusations, there has been a thaw in the relationship between many local human rights leaders and Pope Francis since he was elected. Grandmothers of Plaza de Mayo President Estela Barnes de Carlotto and Mothers of Plaza de Mayo president Hebe de Bonafini have repented their accusations against the pope claiming they were “mistaken,” while Nobel Peace prize winner Adolfo Pérez Esquivel has claimed he never accused the Bergoglio of any complicity despite past accusations.

Opening Church archives?

Last month, Chief of Ceremonial of the Vatican Guillermo Karcher, one of the pope’s closest collaborators, claimed that Francis had asked to start desclassifying Vatican archives related to the latest dictatorship in Argentina.

The Grandmothers’ president has also said that the Church is cooperating in certain cases — for example, when they make a special request for information.

Lita Boitano, a mother who lost two children during the last military dictatorship, said that the Vatican was planning to make an announcement about the declassification in a month or two.

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Pope Francis Signals Remarkable Shift In Priorities For Catholics
Reply #63 - December 20, 2017, 06:54 AM

Are you trying to get people to uncover my Pope Francis posts? Yes, I liked him at first. I admit it.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #64 - March 30, 2018, 10:59 PM

So did Pope Francis really say “there is no hell”? https://novusordowatch.org/2018/03/francis-there-is-no-hell/
Quote
[Scalfari:] Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?

[Francis:] “They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls.”

#hellgate

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Reply #65 - March 31, 2018, 08:17 AM

Pope Francis reportedly denies the existence of hell. Vatican panics.

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Reply #66 - March 31, 2018, 09:33 PM

Baby steps.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #67 - April 01, 2018, 01:05 AM

Quote from: zeca on March 31, 2018, 08:17 AM
Pope Francis reportedly denies the existence of hell. Vatican panics.

along with that., i would have preferred hearing from popes and poop faith heads denying the existence of hell as well as heaven

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Reply #68 - April 01, 2018, 01:18 AM

Why?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #69 - April 01, 2018, 06:43 PM

Quote from: yeezevee says on April 01, 2018, 01:05 AM
along with that., i would have preferred hearing ............. denying the existence of hell as well as heaven

and QSE asks why?
Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on April 01, 2018, 01:18 AM
Why?

how can I & you answer that question dear QSE..??

HA!.. Bananas .... the answer is ...benign Bananas... ., Non reproducible super market Bananas

So by making/ multiplying future generations that deny the existence of hell as well as heaven and the god that rules hell & heaven., we will make the allah/god/gods whatever ..the IMPOTENT banana god.. No seed Banana god

let me watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex0URF-hWj4

Hmmm

The Mystery of Water is also worth watching ?? rubbish

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Pope Francis Signals Remarkable Shift In Priorities For Catholics
Reply #70 - April 02, 2018, 05:23 AM

I preferred Pope Benedict.
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Reply #71 - April 20, 2018, 02:32 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on April 01, 2018, 06:43 PM
and QSE asks why?
how can I & you answer that question dear QSE..??

HA!.. Bananas .... the answer is ...benign Bananas... ., Non reproducible super market Bananas

So by making/ multiplying future generations that deny the existence of hell as well as heaven and the god that rules hell & heaven., we will make the allah/god/gods whatever ..the IMPOTENT banana god.. No seed Banana god

let me watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex0URF-hWj4

Hmmm

The Mystery of Water is also worth watching ?? rubbish

Saying heaven exists, and souls that which don't go there simply disappear, is very different to saying souls that don't go to heaven, go to a realm of eternal torture.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #72 - April 21, 2018, 02:27 AM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on April 20, 2018, 02:32 AM
Saying heaven exists, and souls that which don't go there simply disappear, is very different to saying souls that don't go to heaven, go to a realm of eternal torture.

dear QSE you are absolutely correct indeed there is huge difference in saying ""bad souls gong in to hell" such is the one in
Quote
( Revelation 21:8 ......But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”....)

  is different from "good souls go to heaven bad soul disappear" ....

goo stuff .... good stories ... for children , but I didn't write whole story in my response ....my thoughts are entirely different..... here

Quote
As a leader., as pope for Catholics representing more than half of Christians on this earth ...... YOU CAN NOT GO AGAINST WHAT IS SAID IN BIBLE ...... To say what Mr. Jorge Mario Bergoglio said ..He should first resign from the job
.... then he can say whatever he wants ...

anyways let me read these verses to reinforce myself

Quote
.........."But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”...........

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

"The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God."

They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

....In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire...........

Punish them with the rod and save them from death.

They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

It is OK to say all that but my problem is with those highlighted words Punish them ...... They will ........ cowardly, the unbelieving, ..

Such words indeed are problem for folks like me and even you ........ incidentally we can find all of those statements in Quran

glad to read your words dear QSE......

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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