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 Topic: Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)

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  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #30 - August 11, 2013, 09:45 AM

    Quote
    He's talking shit on twitter and being his usual douchebag self.

    *You're.

    I'm going to call him a bigot for picking on the religious identity of over a billion people from the bully pulpit of his twitter account for no other discernible reason other than to let us know they are stupid.


     Daffi.  We can call Dawkins all sorts of names and we must have that freedom,   As long as he is not a prophet, he is not acting like Prophet of Islam  and open to criticism from you & me . We can correct that guy..

    Now let us read Dr Tim Stanley apparently  a historian  from your native country.
    Quote
    Islam is way more English than the EDL

    .....................................So while football hooliganism, covering your car in St George's flags, wearing balaclavas and spending time in prison is one definition of Englishness, others do exist. The one I prefer is a little more "liberal", in the 19th century meaning of that word. Its the Englishness that was fascinated by the Orient, the Englishness that saw Christians turn native in North Africa and India and lovingly translate the Koran and the tales of Arabian Nights for the mass market back home. .....

    ............... Today our meetings with foreign cultures are awkward precisely because we lack a solid sense of who we are. A lot of the fear shown towards Islam comes from the death of the Christian soul – we see a people who actually believe in something and we are intimidated.

    Quote
    By contrast, most Muslims cling on to values that were once definitively English and that we could do with rediscovering. Islam instructs its followers to cherish their families, to venerate women, to treat strangers kindly, to obey the law of any country they are in (yes, yes, it really does), and to give generously. One recent poll found that British Muslims donate more money to charity than any other religious group. Much is written about the need for Muslims to integrate better into English society, although I'm sure 99 per cent of them already do. But I hope they retain as much of their religious identity as possible – it is vastly superior to the materialist, secular mess that they're being compelled to become a part of.

    .......... So, to reassure the critics, I rang up my father – the most working class Englishman I know – and asked him what he thought of the EDL. "Idiots", he said..

    That is what he writes about English Dumb League(EDL) and Islam Dumb League)IDL) .,  I have to agree with him on that EDL  but I am not sure I will agree with him on IDL

    Let me read his quote on Islam again..

    Quote
    "By contrast, most Muslims cling on to values that were once definitively English and that we could do with rediscovering. Islam instructs its followers to cherish their families, to venerate women, to treat strangers kindly, to obey the law of any country they are in (yes, yes, it really does), and to give generously. One recent poll found that British Muslims donate more money to charity than any other religious group. Much is written about the need for Muslims to integrate better into English society, although I'm sure 99 per cent of them already do. But I hope they retain as much of their religious identity as possible – it is vastly superior to the materialist, secular mess that they're being compelled to become a part of."

    Hmm good stuff., good history about Islam..

     He may be historian(not sure about that) but the fool doesn't seem to realize that  if every group on this earth clings to their values /Religious values the end results will be Anarchy in the name of some god .. some allah.. some voodoo doll whatever .

    But you like anarchy don't you Daffi?  Any way I must read more of this hisssstorian.. or could he be a stupid blogger that sells himself as historian?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #31 - August 11, 2013, 11:03 AM

    Linking to a Daniel Pipes website billy? Seriously?


    Its an interview with Pervez Hoodhbhoy the Pakistani physicist who writes with nuance about science and Islam, in contrast with Dawkins in this instance. I wasn't aware it was associated with conservatives. Here is an alternative piece from the Guardian by Hoodhbhoy that does the trick

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/25/islam-science-muslims-religion

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #32 - August 11, 2013, 11:09 AM

    Or even Mehdi Hasan - who apparently echoed the same views.


    Mehdi Hasan states in an interview that the Quran contains scientific miracles.

    Often, the lament about Islam and science is stated in terms of sadness about the relative decline of power and superiority of the ummah. That isn't going to reconcile science and Islam. It just views science as an adjunct to Islamic destiny and glory.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #33 - August 11, 2013, 11:18 AM

    It was a retarded point by Dawkins and yes it was bigotry. If he had said the same shit about Blacks no one would be debating that it was bigotry. But let's fall back to the standard pathetic "but Islam isn't a race" defense please and bitch and whine about leftists.  Roll Eyes Dicks.

    I think it's better to just call out the actual racism and the actual racists. It's always telegraphed loudly, even if it is sometimes delivered alongside criticism of religious ideology.

    That way, one doesn't put oneself in the embarrassing and self-censoring position of being unable to challenge and criticise one of the most loathsome ideologies in the world. And one doesn't find oneself counter-productively trying to hammer a non-racist peg into the racism hole and doing a disservice to a broader stance against racism.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #34 - August 11, 2013, 02:13 PM

    Web is ringing with Dr. Dawkins and Islam & its Nobles of Knowledge

    Come in, Agent Dawkins, your job is done., The man who made his reputation with The Selfish Gene has finished – and please God he is finished_By Matthew Norman

    Professor Richard Dawkins embroiled in Twitter row over Muslim comments_By Alice Philipson

    Not in our name: Dawkins dresses up bigotry as non-belief - he cannot be left to represent atheists_Owen Jones

    we must consign Dawkins to this very same pile of the irrational and the dishonest. _Nesrine Malik

    Atheism is maturing, and it will leave Richard Dawkins behind  And Dawkins - a man who knows the definition of everything and the meaning of nothing. _Martin Robbins

    An Old White Racist’: Famed Atheist Richard Dawkins Spawns Furor Over Islam Tweet_ by Billy Hallowell

    Please be quiet, Richard Dawkins, I'm begging, as a fan _Tom Chivers

    Sure many more will Tweet, blog and what not will come from press., But I am glad Dawkin who was firing at Christianity for the past 20 years didn't do that against Islam 20 years back .,  If he said something like that 20 years back When I was also putting out placards "Hail Islam.,  Hail Palestine ., Whits are racist " and what not.,   I would have not hesitated supporting some one who could beat up Dawkins to pulp for Insulting Islam .. Well time changes.. people change.   But more Important is the post of our Gun totting, gun selling coach potato Colonel Q-Daffi  Ph, D., Anarchism..

    It was a retarded point by Dawkins and yes it was bigotry. If he had said the same shit about Blacks no one would be debating that it was bigotry. But let's fall back to the standard pathetic "but Islam isn't a race" defense please and bitch and whine about leftists.  Roll Eyes Dicks. .....


    That is a good question to answer .,

     There are Billion chinese, billion hindus, billion blacks , billion buddhists, billion bums in some ISM.,  why dr.  Dawkins pointing his finger at billion Muslim  leaving all other faith-heads over these noble prizes?  

    Can any one give me the answer??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #35 - August 11, 2013, 04:17 PM

    Its an interview with Pervez Hoodhbhoy the Pakistani physicist who writes with nuance about science and Islam, in contrast with Dawkins in this instance. I wasn't aware it was associated with conservatives. Here is an alternative piece from the Guardian by Hoodhbhoy that does the trick

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/25/islam-science-muslims-religion


    Why would I take scientific/religious commentary by a guy who calls himself Hood Boy seriously? *The Colonel searches for interview about religion and science with Gucci Mane*

    I think it's better to just call out the actual racism and the actual racists. It's always telegraphed loudly, even if it is sometimes delivered alongside criticism of religious ideology.

    That way, one doesn't put oneself in the embarrassing and self-censoring position of being unable to challenge and criticise one of the most loathsome ideologies in the world. And one doesn't find oneself counter-productively trying to hammer a non-racist peg into the racism hole and doing a disservice to a broader stance against racism.


    Fair point, but again this is one of the things I was trying to point out with my criticism of the depoliticized atheism as a goal and movement unto itself popularized by people like Dawkins and Harris. When they do make a political/social statement or a statement about religion that touches on those topics, it's always difficult to assess the intent or impact (though I would assume for the former it's almost always primarily self-aggrandizement), and clearly place it within a broader context. Doing so would make it easier to determine what are comments with a bigoted subtext and which aren't.

    Counter-example: Our own Maryam Namazie. Now I have issues with her as a communist, but very rarely as an atheist or secularist. I know her overall political program/ideology, it's clear and comprehensive, and so when she makes statements regarding religion it's very easy for me to place them in context. Similarly if Tariq Ali had tweeted the exact same thing Dawkins did I wouldn't suspect any bigotry or general dickheadedness being at play.

    But Dawkins is an arrogant, obnoxious, apolitical troll. So when he makes trolling remarks regarding religion on twitter you'll have to forgive some of us for assuming the worst. The fact he did it during Eid seemed to express a "Fuck you, Muslims" sort of attitude to me (just as if he'd said something disparaging about Christians on Easter). And I don't regard the character limit on twitter to be any sort of defense for him, cause newsflash Dawkins: if the character limit was going to prevent you from expressing the nuance you really wanted, there are other media you use regularly where you could've expressed your opinions without such limitation.



    Excellent links Yeez.

    Quote
    That is a good question to answer .,

     There are Billion chinese, billion hindus, billion blacks , billion buddhists, billion bums in some ISM.,  why dr.  Dawkins pointing his finger at billion Muslim  leaving all other faith-heads over these noble prizes?  

    Can any one give me the answer??


    Because it was Eid, he's an arrogant troll, and he felt like saying "Fuck you" to the Muslims, as he sometimes says "Fuck you" to the Christians. Maybe Hindus will get their turn on Diwali or something. Maybe they won't. Who knows? I just know Dawkins is a dick. I've always thought so and as time wears on he just keeps confirming it.

    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #36 - August 11, 2013, 06:22 PM

    This link from Yeez is especially good and I encourage those defending Dawkins to read it:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2013/08/atheism-maturing-and-it-will-leave-richard-dawkins-behind

    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #37 - August 11, 2013, 06:25 PM

    What a fuss about nothing.  If you don't like Dawkins tweets don't follow him, its not as if he's tweeting death threats FFS.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #38 - August 11, 2013, 06:40 PM

    Problem is people listen to this dick. Lots of em.

    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #39 - August 11, 2013, 06:41 PM

    But Dawkins is an arrogant, obnoxious, apolitical troll. So when he makes trolling remarks regarding religion on twitter you'll have to forgive some of us for assuming the worst.

    Well, no, it depends what you assume. If, for example, you assume he's a racist based on that softball tweet he wrote, you're either a hypersensitive reactionary douchebag who deserves to be offended (and will continue to be offended) or you're so desperate for some dirt on him (or his fans, or "New Atheists") that that's all it takes. You'd be at risk of sounding like those hack writers in Yeez's list, cutting their teeth on Dawk-bashing bandwagon. And that would be unforgivable.

    Because it was Eid, he's an arrogant troll, and he felt like saying "Fuck you" to the Muslims, as he sometimes says "Fuck you" to the Christians.

    Who gives a shit if was Eid? If he'd literally said "Fuck Christians" on Easter, not a single fuck would be given except by only the most diehard Dawkins haters.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #40 - August 11, 2013, 06:47 PM

    Problem is people listen to this dick. Lots of em.


    They could be listening to far worse people than Richard Dawkins.  The problem at this stage is the perception being created by a load of non-muslims who never once say a word when Dawkins makes similar comments about Christianity.  In fact, most of the people now carping would probably join in when he says things like this about Christianity.  The minute its muslims they raise the roof, leading a load of idiots to resent muslims because "you can't say anything to offend them, its political correctness gorn mad, yada yada." 

    Meanwhile muslims themselves have largely ignored him and said very little to warrant this resentment.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #41 - August 11, 2013, 07:10 PM

    Why would I take scientific/religious commentary by a guy who calls himself Hood Boy seriously? *


    because that is his real name, and he has a PhD from MIT
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #42 - August 11, 2013, 08:07 PM

    Problem is people listen to this dick. Lots of em.

     


    People listen to him because he is a prominent evolutionary biologist, internationally renown popular science writer and former professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University.




    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #43 - August 11, 2013, 08:28 PM

    Well, no, it depends what you assume. If, for example, you assume he's a racist based on that softball tweet he wrote, you're either a hypersensitive reactionary douchebag who deserves to be offended (and will continue to be offended) or you're so desperate for some dirt on him (or his fans, or "New Atheists") that that's all it takes. You'd be at risk of sounding like those hack writers in Yeez's list, cutting their teeth on Dawk-bashing bandwagon. And that would be unforgivable.


    Count me in the second group then. At least three of the most prominent spokespeople for atheism, secularism and humanism over the last decade (I and other call them the New Atheists, you can call em whatever you want, doesn't much matter to me), have been total dicks and have brought nothing new to the party, made no meaningful contributions to society (in terms of their pro-atheist activism), yet for some reason loads of people think they're just great. If ya'll want to be rich white male scientists so much, chop ur balls off, make some powerful friends who can get you into Cambridge, buy some skin bleaching cream and cross your fingers you get lucky. Anyhow, now that Snitchens is toast, looks like Dawkins is trying to one-up Harris in the dickhead department and become New Atheist Dickhead Di Tutti New Atheist Dickheads.

    Quote
    Who gives a shit if was Eid? If he'd literally said "Fuck Christians" on Easter, not a single fuck would be given except by only the most diehard Dawkins haters.


    Because it's rude and spiteful to millions of people he's never even met and knows nothing about? Same reason I refrain from atheist anti-Abrahamic rants on Passover and don't get my panties in a bunch whether someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" to me, I just say whatever they said back to them. And I'm a total dickhead who is fond of quoting Buenaventura Durruti's more militant anti-theist sentiments. If I can manage some basic politeness on this topic so can Dawkins.

    They could be listening to far worse people than Richard Dawkins.


    True, but he still sucks.

    Quote
    The problem at this stage is the perception being created by a load of non-muslims who never once say a word when Dawkins makes similar comments about Christianity.  In fact, most of the people now carping would probably join in when he says things like this about Christianity.  


    Most? You're sure of that now? Assuming Tariq Ali would tweet something as retarded as Dawkins did you really think the reaction from Western "leftists" would have been as bad? I rather doubt it.

    Look Dawkins has the historical baggage of being a rich white man from a colonial power who is from a long line of rich white men from this colonial power, who, in fact, directly profited from the colonial exploitation, and allowed Dawkins the privilege he grew up in and benefited from. As someone in a public role, he does, in fact, have an obligation to tread carefully on matters regarding the former colonial subjects underneath his recent ancestors' boot, and those immigrants and descendants of immigrants currently under threat of a right-wing backlash. Dawkins can protest that Islam isn't a race all he likes but to deny it's popularly associated with non-whites originating from particular parts of the globe is a denial of reality. A denial of reality that people with Dawkins' privilege can afford but others can't.

    What really annoys me though is how many brown people get suckered into this bourgeois liberal bullshit. Uncle Tariqs I call them. And what annoys me more is they regard it as some sort of actual point of principle rather than a desire to let go of religion and assimilate into the broader Western culture-- I got no problem with that but when you're trying to make strictly personal goals like that into some kind of social movement. Take the Uncle Tariqs of the world as the more pragmatic and less political counterpoints to socialists who support Islamists who would have them jailed at best if they ever came to power where they are.

    Quote
    The minute its muslims they raise the roof, leading a load of idiots to resent muslims because "you can't say anything to offend them, its political correctness gorn mad, yada yada."  


    True but that can't be helped. People gonna do that no matter what-- that shouldn't be a reason to self-censor and not criticize Dawkins.

    Quote
    Meanwhile muslims themselves have largely ignored him and said very little to warrant this resentment.


    Why would that change my opinion of the man and his statements?

    because that is his real name, and he has a PhD from MIT


    Nuh-uh.




    People listen to him because he is a prominent evolutionary biologist, internationally renown popular science writer and former professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University.


    That's a reason to read his biology books; not hang on his random obnoxious self-aggrandizing tweets, or take his lead in social matters such as secularism, or consider him some sort of hero to the cause of secularism or humanism, which many do, and he most definitely is not.

    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #44 - August 11, 2013, 08:33 PM

    I disagree with everything you've just said. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #45 - August 11, 2013, 08:41 PM

     finmad

    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #46 - August 11, 2013, 08:42 PM

    If ya'll want to be rich white male scientists so much, chop ur balls off, make some powerful friends who can get you into Cambridge, buy some skin bleaching cream and cross your fingers you get lucky.

    I don't have any balls.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #47 - August 11, 2013, 08:50 PM

    FUCK! That shoulda been create prosthetic balls. FUCK, FUCK, FUCK. Fail.

    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #48 - August 11, 2013, 09:05 PM

    Most vocal ex-Muslims get accused of being Uncle Toms at some point, its like the secular version of calling someone 'murtad'

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #49 - August 11, 2013, 09:11 PM

    All I heard was "Rich, white, male, rich, white, male, rich, white, male..."

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #50 - August 11, 2013, 09:14 PM

    Most vocal ex-Muslims get accused of being Uncle Toms at some point, its like the secular version of calling someone 'murtad'


    Yeah well when you take your personal struggle against Islam out of the context of other struggles in society and attempt to universalize it while the people you left behind are still dealing with other struggles including oppression and discrimination on the basis of their religious identity or the part of the world they live in/come from, then you run that risk. Perhaps I'd be less inclined to use such epithets if the people I call that weren't in relatively privileged positions.

    All I heard was "Rich, white, male, rich, white, male, rich, white, male..."


    The struggle against capitalist, racist, patriarchal and imperialist oppression goes on regardless of what you hear on the internet from some random person like me, Ishina.

    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #51 - August 11, 2013, 09:19 PM

    Someone explained this very well about Dawkins. I mean this guy has PHDs in sciences and pretty much a genius in his field and he has to debate and talk to people who are not even close to his intellectual level. So of course he's going to come off as an arrogant asshole. It's like if you had the whole Quran memorized and you were debating someone who didn't, you would probably be frustrated too.

    The only Muslim country that to me seems interested in pushing the sciences is Qatar? But I haven't seen or heard anything major come out of there. So many engineering schools and such.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #52 - August 11, 2013, 09:22 PM

    Except this really isn't that situation nor is it most of the time when Dawkins obnoxiously shoots his mouth off. We're not talking about his opinions on biology after all. What was your username before? I forget.

    fuck you
  • Re: Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #53 - August 11, 2013, 09:22 PM

    The struggle against capitalist, racist, patriarchal and imperialist oppression goes on regardless of what you hear on the internet from some random person like me, Ishina.

    And I'm sure it'll still go on in your absence while you're here calling Richard Dawkins a meany poo poo pants.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #54 - August 11, 2013, 09:28 PM

    Yeah well when you take your personal struggle against Islam out of the context of other struggles in society and attempt to universalize it while the people you left behind are still dealing with other struggles including oppression and discrimination on the basis of their religious identity or the part of the world they live in/come from, then you run that risk. Perhaps I'd be less inclined to use such epithets if the people I call that weren't in relatively privileged positions.


    Its a slur that is used to silence good, decent people who vocalise their free conscience - including lots of people from here, who have had that line pulled on them in variations of some kind. In fact this forum represents an escape from that kind of bullying and reduction which is too often used without discrimination.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #55 - August 11, 2013, 09:34 PM

    Its a slur that is used to silence good, decent people who vocalise their free conscience - including lots of people from here, who have had that line pulled on them in variations of some kind. In fact this forum represents an escape from that kind of bullying and reduction which is too often used without discrimination.


    Okay and when have I used that slur against anyone here besides HighOctane? I may have a couple other times I'm not sure but if I thought that constituted the majority of the people here I wouldn't use it, nor would I stick around. But I stand by my position that some people really are worthy of that slur. You also didn't address anything I wrote in your reply.

    Bottom line on Dawkins and those who follow him, due to personal experience or whatever-- he seems to believe religion is the world's biggest problem right now, the struggle against it of paramount importance, and if we could eliminate it the world would be a much better place. He's wrong. And the only way one could believe that is if you only look at things from a perspective that completely excludes the working class, especially the struggling masses of the Global South. It's a bourgeois conceit billy, that's really all I'm saying.

    fuck you
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #56 - August 11, 2013, 09:38 PM

    Have you ever actually read any of his work?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #57 - August 11, 2013, 09:38 PM

    Except this really isn't that situation nor is it most of the time when Dawkins obnoxiously shoots his mouth off. We're not talking about his opinions on biology after all. What was your username before? I forget.


    We are talking about his opinions on science though.  He was responding to people going on about the achievements of muslim scientists in the past, and his response was basically, what have you done for us lately?  Its a fair enough response to an empty boast in my opinion.  Maybe the people ranting about him would be better occupied trying to answer the question and fix the problems that have stagnated scientific achievements in the muslim world.   The New Statesman probably wouldn't publish an article about that though.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #58 - August 11, 2013, 09:40 PM




    Its a potent phrase loaded with potential for bullying and misuse is all I'm saying. I know you've got the back of most ex-Muslims  Smiley

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Dawkins upsets Muslims again (Scientific achievement)
     Reply #59 - August 11, 2013, 09:50 PM

    Have you ever actually read any of his work?


    His books? No, I've got higher priorities on my reading list, like finding a good biography about Gucci Mane. His "The Ancestor's Tale" just made my reading list though based on what some people have quoted from it to show he's a racist-- I personally don't buy it but I am interested in reading his scientific opinions on race within its proper context, seeing as it actually is in his field unlike "The God Delusion" or some other nonsense of his-- I don't need to read a whole book to know religion is bullshit and God doesn't exist.

    Its a potent phrase loaded with potential for bullying and misuse is all I'm saying. I know you've got the back of most ex-Muslims  Smiley


    Most slurs are. And look even if I thought most ex-Muslims were worthy of scorn and criticism (which obviously I don't) they have a fundamental right to freedom of conscience. Even HO, who I regarded less as an ex-Muslim and more as a self-interested little capitalist desperate to be a white Englishman,  I would defend his right to say and believe utterly stupid shit if it came down to it.

    fuck you
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