Shaking your hands

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- Wahhabist
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #30 - July 03, 2011, 07:47 AM

I've got to dash now. Will be shaking the hand of each one of you when i'm back, as it were, InshaIblis.
- muddy
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #31 - July 03, 2011, 11:49 AM
Hey, welcome Whabbist.

First of all, have a parrot!

Secondly,
- How old are you?
- Are you a guy or a girl?
- Are you hot?
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #32 - July 04, 2011, 04:13 PM

Quote from: IsLame on July 03, 2011, 01:24 AM
So you are a hafiz? Ive always wondered how they learn the entire quran off by heart

As Spinoza said, it is done by rote. Also when you're made to memorise it at a very young age, it is not that hard. Having a good command of Arabic helped me a lot because, even though the Kornic narration jumps from one line of thought ( in semantic and vocatives) into a totally different one and there's not always a logical way of conceiving why this aya or verse should follow this or that or how did the companisons come to know this when they went about the business of compiling it after the death of Mohamed in about 15 years and during the riegn of the Caliph Uthman, I tried to work my way through by compartmentalising verses and trying to put sub-titles in my head for them. Boredom. Cosmic boredom indeed.

Even now, I'd recite certain parts if I run out of tune whilst having a bath or on a treadmill in the local gymnasium. I do the same with Arabic poetry, of which I know more than I should when compared with my lacking in biology and science.
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #33 - July 04, 2011, 04:21 PM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on July 03, 2011, 02:46 AM

@Whabbist - so sorry for hijacking your thread... seem to be doing that a lot these days...

Not at all, I find your posts insightful.
It is a sign of finding kindred spirits which causes one to share and care.
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #34 - July 04, 2011, 04:25 PM

Quote from: kulay on July 03, 2011, 03:29 AM
welcome fellow ex wahabbist اهلا بأخي المرتد

مساءٌ يقرئك الحمام .. اسرابا يا اخا الغواية
تلويح لك .. وتصفير .. بالسبابة والوسطي
يا دام عزك
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #35 - July 04, 2011, 04:29 PM

Quote from: Eternity on July 03, 2011, 04:50 AM
I'd shake your hand but I obviously come from the other side of the spectrum. Than and there's screen in front of me. Regardless I'm here to welcome yet another to this every informal forum.

At times it appears that eternity were longer than the usual. When I awiat what this place has to offer, for a start. : )
Thank you Eternity.
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #36 - July 04, 2011, 04:37 PM
Quote from: muddy on July 03, 2011, 11:49 AM
Hey, welcome Whabbist.

First of all, have a parrot!

Secondly,
- How old are you?
- Are you a guy or a girl?
- Are you hot?
Thanks for welcoming me. The girl that loves me thinks I'm very hot. I think she's a little bit exaggerating.
- Ifrit
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #37 - July 04, 2011, 09:12 PM

مقامك عزيز

welcome to the forum,
- muddy
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #38 - July 05, 2011, 12:21 PM

Quote from: Whabbist on July 04, 2011, 04:37 PM
Thanks for welcoming me. The girl that loves me thinks I'm very hot. I think she's a little bit exaggerating.

You only answered one question buddy. Just because a girl loves you doesn't automatically mean you are a guy.

Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
Islam's Last Stand (page)
Islam's Last Stand (group)
and many others...
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #39 - July 05, 2011, 12:34 PM

Quote from: Ifrit on July 04, 2011, 09:12 PM
مقامك عزيز

welcome to the forum,

مقامك أعز ..

لك تحايا الملأ .. لأني بك كثير
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #40 - July 05, 2011, 12:36 PM

Quote from: muddy on July 05, 2011, 12:21 PM
You only answered one question buddy. Just because a girl loves you doesn't automatically mean you are a guy.

I'm a heterosexual guy. I demand a lawyer before answering any other questions.
- strangestdude
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #41 - July 06, 2011, 12:01 AM

Quote from: Whabbist on July 02, 2011, 08:24 PM
I no longer suffer from cognitive disequilibrium or disperately try to find fanciful interpretations for the indefensible moral issues in my now-forsaken religion.

That's one of the things I'm thankful that I no longer have to do. I'm glad I can just say 'I don't know' or 'i'm not certain' regarding questions that life presents, rather than feeling guilty because I didn't feel fulfilled by the Quran and Sunnah.

Quote
That there was room for humanity and for being chartable without waiting virgins or fearing the wrath of Allah.

That's something that I found disturbing. Their seemed to be a lack of human connection, or the development of empathy. Things were to be done for the sake of Allah, or for reward. Of course not all muslims I met were like that, but far to many act of kindness or charity were driven by desire for reward, or group solidarity (I'll help you because you're a fellow muslim, if you weren't, fuck you).

Recently a muslim who I was good friends with has now discarded me because I'm not a muslim. I realize now the 'friendship' was based on a shared identity.

Welcome.

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #42 - July 15, 2011, 09:19 PM

strangestdude :
Only when I left Islam that I realised I never had friends and that I only had brothers in an exclusive idea. Not that I were like John Stuart Mill was, seeking a perfect friend. A friend that you share humanity with, nothing more nothing less. I have truned down many overtures of friendship because they were not made by muslims.

Here is an excerpt from an email I sent to an Ex Muslim mate on the same matter :

I too wasn’t advocating for giving primacy to friends over the intellect. Cruelty, of the worst kind, is to ostracise someone because of their heterodox outlooks. Of that there’s no doubt. I simply try not to seek conflict with my friends nor erect my friendship on intellectual dexterity. There's more to people than cerebral proficiency to be liked and befriended for. That is a reduction which I seek to distance myself from. , I truly am not making a case for a conflict-free friendship. Conflict-free relationships are by definition superficial. Get fully acquainted with what I mean by reading Scott Peck's profound book The Road Less Travelled.

Most of my friendships, in the past, were formed on Islam and around it. Mohammed was a brother, never a friend. Am I saying that I never had friends in UK? Yes, I am to my sins and the sins of any devout Muslim who believed in Al-wala and bara. I only formed brotherhood with Muslims. Difficult and frustratingly elusive the line is between the two under the depressing shroud of monotheism. This nasty ideology stripped my friends off their humanity. Yet, the forgiving secular and humanist in me tries to accommodate the two colliding forces; I don’t mind befriending those who are not intellectually curious or as interested as me in the life of Mind. There are other common grounds on which one stands with humanity. I know you know this. If they insist on depriving me of my thought, of my frequent strolls along the boulevard of reason, I most certainly refuse and resist them, without putting an end to the relationship.

If a friend, because of a difference in thought, pointed his or her spears at me, they would officially have ended our friendship. I admit there're unsettle-able disputes between mates but to me walking away is hardly a solution. And perhaps it is as you said, temperamental disposition. Or it is the fact that I don’t see I greatly owe my disbelief to martyrs of any kind. I cherish the legacy of the Enlightenment and acknowledge the stupendous wisdom those men bestowed on humanity, but I don’t see it betrayal or intellectual death to remain a friend to those who do not celebrate them or take the good came because of them for granted. Many don't and posthumous appreciation wasn't stentorian an aim for the martyrs.

Thanks a lot and hope to see you around.
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #43 - July 15, 2011, 09:44 PM

Can't shake your hand. Might want to have sex with you afterwards. Sorry.

Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #44 - July 15, 2011, 09:53 PM

Peppermint Tits:
I'm smiling. Thanks because you made me.
- luftazure
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #45 - July 20, 2011, 02:01 PM

lol you actually said ghofranak like leaving Islam was leaving the bathroom?
welcome!

I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #46 - July 20, 2011, 02:53 PM

Whabbist ... what you said above was a major angst for me.
I hated, at every turn everything i did, didnt do, said and
didnt say revolved around "rewards/punishment"

an example is: difficulty pronouncing arabic gave me
double points for every prayer and recitation.

I was like, "good grief! cant i do anything without thinking
about what rewards Im gonna get?

Also, I HATED that i could become jaded for sincerely wanting to
show compassion, charity, working with orphans, etc. I did these
things because I WANTED TO, not for any motive or incentive.

When I left Islam, i felt liberated and new freedom to choose to do
these things, because I wanted to, and nothing else! Because these
things bring me great joy, and satisfaction--period!

Also, i wasnt particularly crazy about being renewed as a virgin every
single day of eternity. Now who is benifiting from that! Certainly not me!

I hated jannah being a penis-centric culture, and what is the purpose of
the prepubescent pearly boys? hmmmm? LOL

I refused to get married, too. I wasnt gonna be stuck with just anyone
in eternity. I wanted to create my own fantasy! LOL (and btw, I HATE
green brocade robes)

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #47 - July 25, 2011, 09:14 PM

Quote from: luftazure on July 20, 2011, 02:01 PM
lol you actually said ghofranak like leaving Islam was leaving the bathroom?
welcome!

Yes I actually did. I wish I had a bath too. I was so annoyed with myself. I became recluse for months.
Suddenly, I felt like I have missed a bus going to an important place no one remembered to tell me about.

but yeah
- strangestdude
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #48 - July 25, 2011, 10:10 PM

Quote from: Whabbist on July 15, 2011, 09:19 PM
I have truned down many overtures of friendship because they were not made by muslims.

Yeah me too. That's one of the things I look back at with sadness, people invited me to parties etc and I turned them down.

Your letter to a friend made me realize that I need to read more, I found it a challenge to grasp .

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #49 - July 25, 2011, 10:47 PM

@ Jinn and Tonic

Very true.
To a great extent, Islam externalises morality which, in effect, is saying that being obedient ( i.e. not stealing because you are afraid of having your hand chopped) makes you moral. The driving force of morality is plain empathy which transcends mere inaction or action based on fear to actively doing/not doing things beause of love and decency.

The disproportionality between punishing someone stealing ( £ 2000) and another stealing ( £ 2000000) exactly the same e.g. cutting their right hands is unreasonable and it is likely to encourage theives to steal the largest sum (grand theft) that is possible for them, since they're going to loose their hands anyway.

But how come a just and reasonable Lord speaks to you or asks you to communicate with him in a foreign tougue? Unless he's a monoglot, whats wrong with your mother language?

At least in Cristainity, people are allowed to pray in English. You cannot do that in Islam. Islam is incredibly Arabcentric and yet it claims universality. When Muslims talk about the literary grandiose of the Koran they must be talking to Arabs, because otherwise it is like challenging me, 4 years ago when I didn't understand English, to produce a Shakespearean play.

That is pathetic; unless I am meant to learn Arabic, like I did, and then live up to the task which is impossible again for the Koranic Aarbic is dead ( it has no native speakers).

When Islam came, it was Christainty under which the rug of followers were to be pulled. The Koran never, or very rarely, deals with atheists. Islam elbows them aside claiming that they are brainless; how come the universe came out of nothing? it has to be created. But if you took their rule and applied it to the Creator, they shout in unison Nooooooo! it does not work that way, braader.

The Koran puts forward a false dichotomy in sorat Toor ( did they creat themselves by themselves or were they created out of nothing) the asnwer is no, I didn't creat myself nor did claim I were created out of nothing. I only knew how I came to being when I was old enough to understand sex. To tell me I were created of clay is ridiculous. But the third false option is not logical necessity; that a god created me.

If you want to laugh read this verse [7:172]
(And (remember) when thy Lord) O Muhammad (brought forth) on the Day of the Covenant (from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed) He brought forth the seeds from their reins, (and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily We testify) we know and acknowledge that You are our Lord. Allah then said to the angels: be witnesses over them; and let you be witnesses over one another. ((That was) lest ye should say) so that you do not say (at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this) covenant (we were unaware) we were not made to make pledge.

Now, do you remember this meeting? I personally do not recall meeting with allah and the rest of humanity nor saying yea verily I testify. Whichever way you try to interpret it, it does not work because the verse is dealing with past events. This is the very verse that made me doubt everything in Islam as well as a particular hadith.

Like yourself, when I left Islam I felt less guilty and liberated. I realised that freedom is a mental journey, not a location. As for virgins, you are absolutely right. What will happen to women in Janneh? Will they be allowed to live in ménage à trois? why isn't there any discreption of beautful men in Jennah but children ( although there will not be pregancy in it, so again where did they come from)?

You know what? I recently read Lolita by Nabokov and thought about the prepubescent pearly boys of Jennah. I got really disgusted. And yes, there apparenly will not be marriages and (unlike the case of two wives and it is not allowed to have threesome in this life) it will be one big continous orgyز

I personally have another problem; I love reading and dealing with ideas. There's no mention of intellecual pleasures in worship-free Jennah. Bookish guys might get bullied in Jennah too. lol

Sex is an act of love not love iteslf. This sheer emotionless physical relationship, that customers get in brothels, is the reason most people disapporve of prostitution, even if the girls were very happy with it. To these people it cheapens love, which requires nurturing and allowing another to grow into you.

As a man, I've alway believed that love from first sights are penis-motivated acts. I will have lots of problems with the virgins in Jennah ( I will shortly translate some ridiculous hadiths re jennah).
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Re: Shaking your hands
Reply #50 - July 25, 2011, 10:56 PM

Quote from: strangestdude on July 25, 2011, 10:10 PM
Yeah me too. That's one of the things I look back at with sadness, people invited me to parties etc and I turned them down.
Your letter to a friend made me realize that I need to read more, I found it a challenge to grasp .

I'm pleased that you find some of what I post relevant, my brother in disbelief.
I'm still angry, not because I recently left Islam, but because of the foolishness it made do against myself and others.
I will write and extensively; to spread the 'knowledge' I sought from the very beginning of my life.
I'm like Taliban, which literally means in Arabic two students of knowledge, created by the very people that they are fighting now. A curse.

Thanks a lot again.
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Shaking your hands
Reply #51 - July 19, 2013, 10:27 PM

Whabbist, I'm not sure if you're active on this forum now, but if you are I wish to express my deep admiration for you. Your story and use of words are moving and captivating, and there are not words to express the admiration I have for you.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Shaking your hands
Reply #52 - July 20, 2013, 02:35 AM

Welcome whabbist,
I'm also a new apostate. i just renounced islam about 5 months ago.
Now I'm an agnostic.
Cheers, mate
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