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Theme Changer

 Topic: Greetings :)

 (Read 2227 times)
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  • Greetings :)
     OP - May 24, 2013, 07:38 PM

    Hello everyone Smiley

    I'm Iluvia, an ex-muslim from Indonesia. Though... i'm not sure if the term ex-muslim is the right terminology to describe myself, since i did not chose that religion for myself, nor believe any islam-related stories i've been told throughout my life. Thing is, since my first memory -- as far as i remember -- both my mind and heart always rejects islam wholly, no matter what or how mentally hard i tried to lie or delude myself to think positively about that religion. Only a few years ago that i realize that i never accepted Islam in the first place. But still, i was born in a muslim family and registered as someone who submit herself to islam. Those who do not agree that religion is something that one consciously choose for her/himself and not by their family or anyone else, will see myself as an 'ex-muslim'. Perhaps the label 'agnostic atheist' is far more suitable for me. That aside, do allow me to share a bit about myself Smiley

    Living as someone who was and is forced to wear the label of "muslimah" in one of the country where the majority are muslim no doubt restricts me for being myself: a 'non-believer', especially around my parents (particularly my mother), and other relatives.  Even so, that does not prevent me from discussing many aspects about islam often with my family and friends and harshly questioned many of the rules in islam that i deem beyond ridiculous and far from being 'humane'. The value of women's testimony in court no matter how educated, experienced, or knowledgeable she is, the portion of inheritance for a woman that is half of a male and could care less if the male is wasting all of the money on drugs and alcohol later on, the heavenly whorehouse reward for the muslim males, and the sorry excuse for a reward in 'jannat' for the muslimahs even IF they get to heaven (being the 'leader' of the houris and watching your only husband bonk them are considered REWARD for putting up with the misogynistic 7th century arabic cult your entire life? get real), for example.

    (All this without telling them explicitly that i'm an agnostic... perhaps that's why my family and friends treat me as a 'progressive' even feminist muslimah, however contradictory it may sound, rather than a possible zionist-to-be evil apostate)

    I know that religion could, if not often, greatly inspire a relatively good person to be a human who value the lives of another living creatures far below their 'holy' scriptures. Hearing the news about what happened to Alexander Aan, about what the local Islamic Defender Front (FPI) done to those who (they believed) have 'tarnished' islam including Irshad Manji, news from other countries about the honor killings and fatal FGM done to girls and women alike, the death threats targeted to those who 'offends' islam such as Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the murders for the sake of 'preserving' islam and 'defending' it from the 'kaffirs' like what happened to Theo van Goh... all that, and seeing how religion twists the moralities of the people around me, is enough for me to reach that conclusion. That people easily violate humanity for the sake of their fragile belief and have no problem justifying the vilest of action as a good deed when it is allowed by their God aka scriptures... even encouraged with heavenly rewards, blood relation be damned.

    Taking the worst case scenario into account, i always expect the muslims i discuss directly with will react negatively, even harmful. To my surprise, many of them (who were and are muslim) doesn't react as hostile or as rude as i expected, despite me being sarcastic and often openly ridicule the rules in quran and hadeeth as something a 7th century sex-crazed arab male would wrote. Some just fell into silence and frown in confusion. It's always accompanied with "only god knows best, we just have to believe that he have good plans for all of us". The most extreme reaction i got wasn't even close to hostile, but sadness and fear... from my mother. She is not angry nor disappointed, and is more than willing to put aside the fact that both the quran and hadeeth was insulted by me. The only thing my mother did was pleading me to keep performing the five daily prayers.

    Some are more defensive, apologetic and desperate in defending their faith, yes. After a few more questions or arguments, they either got tired or at loss for explanations and will usually repeat the "god knows best" mantra, or "why don't you ask an ustad (priest)? he/she is more knowledgeable in islam than i" Roll Eyes

    It's funny that several of those who were harmless to me at that moment were the same people who believed that hand-cutting, beheading, stoning, whipping, and any act of violence in the name of islam are good for humanity on the long run and even necessary. It's a whole different story with the Indonesian muslims whom i discuss with via internet who is not my acquaintance, though. The second i criticize or even just questioning the quran or hadith, the discussion usually stops and doesn't progress much beyond 'shia', 'zionist', 'kaffir', 'apostate', 'infidel', 'atheist', 'slut', 'whore' and other insults intended to shut me up. Since it's pointless to try to explain something to someone who intends to continually misunderstand us, i usually left the discussion would-be without further words.

    So far, i've yet to receive death threats for speaking against islam, or any other kind of death threat. Not from my family nor friends, even though some knew that i am no (longer a) muslimah. Not even from my brother, a devout muslim who knew that i am an agnostic atheist. Even when i asked him mockingly as to why he didn't kill me --an apostate-- yet, he said that it is not for him to judge. Perhaps he's a hypocrite hadeeth and quran cherry-picker who prefer the most humane tafseer of all islamic scriptures, but i certainly am glad to have a sensible sibling whom i could always share my thoughts, jokes, sarcasm and mockery about his religion with. In fact, our last discussion about religion and creationism is one of the thing that inspires me to write this post.

    Anyways, it's very refreshing to see that i'm not alone with these kind of thoughts. I know you don't need a certain number of people to validate your principles, but its still comforting to know that there are people who knew what it is to be an 'ex-muslim' within an islamic community. Or for the very least... people who understand why someone, particularly a woman, won't submit her life to islam.



    Nb. By the way, how can i manage my account, avatar and such? i can't view or edit my own account or profile from the My Stuff tab, got a message that i'm not permitted to edit it, and reading the Help section doesn't help much Huh?
  • Greetings :)
     Reply #1 - May 25, 2013, 01:53 AM

    Nice username Cheesy

    This is a nice intro, and I am very glad to see that there are Muslims such as your brother who don't become all offended when someone makes jokes about Islam. It, in fact, gives me hope for the future.. Smiley

    Welcome on this forum!

    If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

    He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
  • Greetings :)
     Reply #2 - May 25, 2013, 02:42 AM

    Hey I'm seeing double. Lol welcome  grin12

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Greetings :)
     Reply #3 - May 29, 2013, 09:48 AM

    Thanks Lluvia and Jila Smiley Regarding my brother, sometimes i took him for granted in a way that makes me think that 'muslims are like this to people like me, and *supposed* to be like this', which is obviously not true in other places. I could say that his moral compass is not based on islamic scriptures alone, and he is more a humanist with a muslim label than muslim with humanist label.

    I think that it's possible for other muslim to not just be tolerant, but also able to accept any kind of differences as long as they prioritize their humanity, love and understanding of humans above their scriptures.

    ... or just plain ignorance just like my 'muslim' friends did when they know that i'm an agnostic atheist. Some didn't even know that there is death penalty for apostasy. Seems people become ignorant of their religion when they didn't choose it for themselves :p
  • Greetings :)
     Reply #4 - July 03, 2013, 01:12 PM

    Halo there..Lluvia. So, you're from indo too? Wow, what a coincidence! I'm from indo too Smiley I renounced my muslim identity since 5 months ago. Now, I considered myself as agnostic-deist. I'm so happy to see my fellow indonesian in this forum.
    Cheers
     parrot
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