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 Topic: Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy

 (Read 19879 times)
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  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #30 - June 27, 2013, 11:51 AM

    What the fuck happened to telling her to call the police or child services? What happened to helping this woman get out of a relationship with a man who rapes his daughter? They wanna stone and behead people so bad, why not start with this guy who has ruined his daughter's life? Instead he tells girls not to wear tight clothes. Both of these ass holes can go to hell.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #31 - June 27, 2013, 08:28 PM

    Among the things that I regret the most is passing on a fatwa from a Saudi cleric regarding a woman and her husband's illegitimate 9 year old son.

    As the son was born out of wedlock and before the father had embraced Islam, the cleric ruled that he could not be considered the husband's son and could not be left alone with the woman or view her unveiled. This resulted in a situation in which the boy, who could have gained a loving relationship with his new stepmother, was instead ostracized by the family and forced to spend all of his time in a separate room. The woman was in turn forced to veil herself in her own home whenever the boy needed to come out.

    All of this was in the name of keeping a 9 year old from having sex with his 30-something year old step mom. Such is the culture of absurdity around gender that Islam promotes.


    Oh my, what a very sad story Cry

    I hear the rains, I see the fire, I feel the flame. It doesn't change the faces I want to blame for the shame I'm feeling.
    But the winds of change will blow again. And we're the lucky ones who travel on towards the sun.

    Can you hear it calling you?
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #32 - June 27, 2013, 08:42 PM

    It still weighs quite heavily on my mind. At the time, I had received an email from the family asking me to obtain the fatwa and relay it back to them. I was certain that the shaikh would reply the same way that any normal person would—that there was no harm in the boy and his step mother being alone. I asked one shaikh from whom I had anticipated a rational response, but instead I got what I mentioned above. I then asked another shaikh, just to try for a second opinion, and got a similar answer. The family took the fatwa at face value and as I knew them personally, I know well how it affected the boy in question.

    As I think about it, I’ve witnessed many instances in which out of touch Saudi clerics gave absurd fatwas. It’s really sad to think about as they impact people’s real lives with this garbage.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #33 - June 27, 2013, 08:48 PM

    What the fuck happened to telling her to call the police or child services?


    In countries like Saudi Arabia, you can't really rely on the police on such matters. Women are men's property, and the police tend not to interfere. The society is all about honor and family names and such. Plus, I'm not sure, but she might suffer the penalty of "kathf" if she can't prove it. These are reasons why it doesn't even occur to the likes of this buffoon to recommend calling the police. He is not especially an asshole where he comes from, it's the whole society that's fucked up.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #34 - June 27, 2013, 08:58 PM

    Saudi Arabia is the fucking twilight zone, dude. You really do have to think on an entirely different wavelength to comprehend the prevailing mindset there.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #35 - June 27, 2013, 10:52 PM

    Has it ever occurred to anybody that a society where the burqa is mandatory might have the unintended effect of promoting pedophilia?

    Men's minds will try to focus on something that can be arousing to them, and with all the grown women covered up, the only thing left are other men, or children.

    It is like in prison, when there are no women around, straight men can be driven to engage in homosexual practices. At least that's what happens in films and tv shows (not sure if that is scientifically accurate).

    The more you repress sexuality the more problematic the results can be.....
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #36 - July 27, 2013, 10:49 AM

    Focusing on the post itself and not the replies, can I just say how freaked out I am? This is disturbing fucked up shit. How are people supposed to respond to this? Seriously sickening. What kind of people would even think of this?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #37 - July 27, 2013, 11:02 AM

    The more you think about it, the more you realise that humanity is fucked up.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #38 - July 27, 2013, 11:30 AM

    I have never heard this mind-set, but then I've never known anyone indoctrinated into this mentality. Naturally the vast majority of both parents and people in general are not like this.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #39 - July 27, 2013, 12:25 PM

    I missed this thread, very disturbing indeed.  I thought it was just my step mother who was fucked in the head when she told my dad he wasn't allowed to hug us anymore when i turned 9, because we might get the wrong idea.  I didn't realise there were actually other muslims out there stating the same crazy things.  I just thought it was down to her jealousy that he loved us.

    It's so wrong too since a father is his daughter's mahram for the exact reason that he is not supposed to see her in that way and is supposed to be her island of safety.

    Yet when you think about how many young girls are molested or raped by their fathers, in the West, it's surprising this allah who is meant to know everything, believed daughters were safe from all fathers.  This is not the case.  Obviously not the majority, but a sickening amount happens behind closed doors.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #40 - July 27, 2013, 01:21 PM

    Quote
    Sheikh Mohammad Al- Arefe, a recent visitor to Britain, once gave a fatwa on his television show declaring that young girls should not dress immodestly in front of their fathers.

    In fact, they should not be alone in their father’s company, citing the fact that fathers are men too, with sexual drives and needs, which places them as victims in the realm of their daughters’ beauty.


    This make me sick....

    Sigh..

    When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #41 - July 27, 2013, 01:25 PM

    Well, that was creepy of your step mum. Why she'd think a nine year old would get the wrong idea from a hug is beyond most people. When I first began learning about islam and read the quran I was amazed how obsessed it was as a whole with sex while at the same time demonising cultures who weren't obsessed and by and large wouldn't have these things enter their heads.

    To your other point, It's a numbers game. How many people make up the West? Europe, Canada, America, and all the places in between? You go to a small rural village of 200 chances are it's not happening there. Go to a town of 50000, once in a blue moon. A city of a million plus, a several times a year you'll hear about it. The entire Western Hemisphere, you'll hear about it a lot more. There's one in Germany, there's one in Florida, there's one in England, there's two in France. It's common in the sense that we're aware it happens globally in an everyday way, but that's not the same thing as it being the reality for the majority of people.

    The fact is the vast majority of people are not like this. We're not wired in this way.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #42 - July 27, 2013, 03:36 PM

    Well, that was creepy of your step mum. Why she'd think a nine year old would get the wrong idea from a hug is beyond most people. When I first began learning about islam and read the quran I was amazed how obsessed it was as a whole with sex while at the same time demonising cultures who weren't obsessed and by and large wouldn't have these things enter their heads.


    Yet they of course believe that it is the other cultures that are obsessed by sex, it is quite mind boggling when you sit down and think about it.

    As to my step-mother, she has even accused my sister of fancying my father, again motivated I think in part by the closeness my sister has with my father....which wouldn't exist had anything of a sexual nature existed between them.

    Mind you, my ex husband accused me of sleeping with my uncle and my father because he couldn't understand why I loved them that much.  It was unfathomable to him, but again instead of laying this on Islam's door, I assumed it was, 1 = because he was psychotic, or 2 = because he had no sisters and thus no experience.

    Quote

    To your other point, It's a numbers game. How many people make up the West? Europe, Canada, America, and all the places in between? You go to a small rural village of 200 chances are it's not happening there. Go to a town of 50000, once in a blue moon. A city of a million plus, a several times a year you'll hear about it. The entire Western Hemisphere, you'll hear about it a lot more. There's one in Germany, there's one in Florida, there's one in England, there's two in France. It's common in the sense that we're aware it happens globally in an everyday way, but that's not the same thing as it being the reality for the majority of people.

    The fact is the vast majority of people are not like this. We're not wired in this way.


    I think you'd be surprised upon research just how common incest abuse of young females is, especially on father to daughter.  You should take a look at Judith Lewis Harman's book 'Father Daughter Incest', I read it last year for an essay I had to write for criminology, and other papers (which I don't have to hand because my filing system is hilarious Grin ) which showed that the figures were quite scary.

    Between the period of 1970 to the time of publication of her book, I remember the sexual abuse cases in her meta-analysis were something like over 90% of them being father on daughter.

    She also has a good chapter which speaks about the unwillingness of people, especially males, to believe the statistics are so high, because of their fear of what it says about them as future fathers.  According to her, even Freud withdrew his previous belief in the truth of his patients, and instead began to see that they were merely fantasising about sex with their fathers, even though he had previously given credence to their life stories, of which rape at the hands of their fathers featured prominently. This trend was seen in many following studies, even when the girls had contracted STD's at the hands of their fathers, until after the 70's when feminists began to explore the topic. 

    It is of course not the majority, there are after all over 6 billion people on this planet, but the figures IIRC are in the 14-15% of women have been sexually abused by a family member, but I can't quite remember the total figure in which the father was the perpetrator, but it was the highest, followed second by brothers.  The 2 mahrams for a girl in Islam.

    Again, I am not stating the majority, just that it is not as small as one story from here, another from there, until it seems like an epidemic, child rape behind familial closed doors is more rife than the majority want to believe.  Sad but true.

    Good book. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #43 - July 27, 2013, 03:53 PM

    Another similar issue is being discussed in Turkey these days:

    (from: http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/news/sections/politics/2013/07/25/Turkey-pregnant-women-public-immoral-unpleasant-_9075571.html )

    Quote
    Turkish lawyer and Sufi thinker Ömer Tuğrul İnançer has sparked a public outcry after telling state television station TRT 1 that it was immoral for pregnant women with huge bellies to reveal themselves in public.

    “Announcing pregnancy with a flourish of trumpets is against our civility. [They] should not wander on the streets with such bellies. First of all, it is not aesthetic,” İnançer said. “After seven or eight months of pregnancy, future mothers go out their husbands by car to get some fresh air. And they go out in the evening hours. But now, they are all on television. It’s disgraceful. It is not realism, it is immorality.”

    After İnançer’s remarks, the program’s host said, “May God be pleased with you” in response.
    Meanwhile, TRT officials said the comments expressed belonged only to İnançer and did not reflect the official view of the channel.

    Lawyer stands by remarks

    İnançer defended his remarks today, insisting that the appearance of pregnant women was not aesthetic, according to Anadolu Agency.

    “You get married and get pregnant. Okay, you did well. [However], this can not be singled out as the reason you are swinging your belly. The image is not aesthetic. I am still saying the same thing. Why don’t you understand?” These are venerable things. And venerable things are kept in a respectful way,” he said.

    “Pregnancy is not made that apparent. Moreover, that’s why young girls are scared of giving birth,” İnançer said.

    İnançer also said companies gave maternity leave not so that women could “wander” the streets, but to stay in their homes.


    It's disgusting.

    Seriously, if the first thing these perverts think about when they see a pregnant woman is the sexual act she has had to get pregnant, then everyone should stay inside, since looking at a human being can lead the thoughts to sex.
     vomit

    "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." George Orwell
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #44 - July 27, 2013, 05:04 PM

    Brown people pull that stuff too!! I'm not sure how big of a deal it is, but when a woman is pregnant she is supposed to cover her belly in front of her elders to hide that she has had sex...

    Also, I find Ömer Tuğrul İnançer not aesthetic, I think he should stay home all day so people don't have to see him.
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #45 - July 27, 2013, 05:18 PM

    Not wearing tight/revealing clothes isn't good advice. From personal experience, I know for a fact that it does not matter what you wear. You could be wearing jeans that are two sizes too big and an over sized hoodie, doesn't matter. If some sick, poor excuse for a human being sets his sights on you, clothing doesn't matter to him (or her, women can be just as messed up in the head).

    That's what I hate about the whole 'modesty' thing, it doesn't actually protect girls/women from anything.   
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #46 - July 27, 2013, 05:35 PM

    BerberElla, just been looking into the book, I may actually have to get a copy. It actually brought to mind a few people I've known in my life that I can say without hesitation I would not want left alone around members of my own family at a certain age.

    Your comment on the unwillingness of males to accept the levels because of what it might say about them did give me pause.

    The possibility is obviously something we're all aware of. In my above comments I didn't mean to suggest I'm in denial about it, I realise it happens all over the world and is probably happening as I type this. Honestly I would of thought the level was more around 25%. The one story here one story there might not have come out the way I intended.

    One of the things I've always found chilling is the act of shifting blame. That people can commit wicked acts and claim helplessness because of so and so. Often I hear about rapists and killers and abusers and it's something not always but usually on a very individual level. They keep it secret because they know it's wrong, it's shameful, they know everyone would be against them. The father/daughter abuse, to me this is just too alien. I can just about understand it if I try hard enough, but even though I understand it, I don't empathise with it. I just can't.

    I know full well children are vulnerable to the mercy of adults. I fully understand they need guidance and protection until they're at the age they can make their way in the world, and parents are supposed to be the most important protectors. The idea of men not wanting to believe the levels make sense when I think about it because the idea of a parent doing it is somehow much more horrific than a stranger smoking a cigarette wearing a trench coat skulking around in a dark alley. The unknown and dangerous "other".

    The sheikh in question is saying things that to me might as well be the ravings of a lunatic. There must be a cultural norm of dehumanisation. An example would be how serial killers don't view their victims as real people, or see themselves as somehow other than human. And because the victim is less, below, not like them, or brought it on themselves just by virtue of being a certain way...I can't really say what I'm trying to say, I'm not sure how.

    I can't escape the fact that it's a horrific crime against a real person who has thoughts and feelings just like I do, and as a child we're talking about a vulnerable person who is completely defenceless. I can't think like the sheikh, I can't in any way absolve the abuser of blame. Maybe it's the culture I grew up in, maybe it's me as an individual, maybe it's a mix of both, but if I did something like that, at least from the viewpoint I have now, I could not absolve myself. I couldn't lay blame on anyone but myself. And I couldn't in any way escape the horror I would of inflicted. I think I'd probably kill myself, because I cannot imagine living with the shame.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Sexual Perversion in Patriarchy
     Reply #47 - July 27, 2013, 05:48 PM

    Not wearing tight/revealing clothes isn't good advice. From personal experience, I know for a fact that it does not matter what you wear. You could be wearing jeans that are two sizes too big and an over sized hoodie, doesn't matter. If some sick, poor excuse for a human being sets his sights on you, clothing doesn't matter to him (or her, women can be just as messed up in the head).

    That's what I hate about the whole 'modesty' thing, it doesn't actually protect girls/women from anything.   


    Yup.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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