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Theme Changer

 Topic: UK Freedom of Speech

 (Read 2555 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     OP - May 31, 2013, 02:18 PM

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22732630
     
    Quote
    BBC interviewee Abu Nusaybah faces three terror charges
    <snip>
    The charges include an allegation that on or before 24 May he "published or caused another to publish" five video recorded lectures entitled In Pursuit of Allah's Governance on the Earth, intending or being reckless as to whether members of the public would be encouraged to commit, prepare or instigate acts of terrorism.

    In two further charges, Abu Nusaybah is also alleged, on or before 24 May, to have provided services to others enabling them to access a video lecture by Khalid al-Husainan and a text called Reality of the Rulers by Abu Zubair Adil al-Adab - conduct which could be intended as a "direct or indirect encouragement to the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism", according to the Crown Prosecution Service's counter terrorism unit.



    So, this gentleman was arrested on terrorism related charges for uploading videos that could be construed in a manner that seems to incite some sort of violence. (I haven’t seen the videos in question, obviously.)

    In the states, I don’t think that this sort of indirect activity would be grounds for arrest. These actions would be protected under freedom of speech laws and would not meet the “yelling fire in a crowded theater” stipulation.

    I tend to think that we just about have things right here in the states in that regard.

    If this sort of arrest is allowable in the UK, it seems to me to be a slippery slope. Indeed, the Qur’an and hadith both contain very explicit incitements towards violence. Could a Muslim be arrested just for publicly reciting them or for uploading a surah that contains them?

    I’m not sure that I feel good about this arrest, even if the guy is a scum bag. What do you guys think?
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #1 - May 31, 2013, 02:28 PM

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22732630
     
    So, this gentleman was arrested on terrorism related charges for uploading videos that could be construed in a manner that seems to incite some sort of violence. (I haven’t seen the videos in question, obviously.) ....................

    UK Freedom of Speech

    I’m not sure that I feel good about this arrest, even if the guy is a scum bag. What do you guys think?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfHTzrwHM-k

    there must be more than that interview., Elected Governments have many ways to arrest people.. Even if they arrested him because of those videos/interviews., Sure they will rig up something else to arrest him and also say "he still has freedom to Express"

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #2 - May 31, 2013, 06:39 PM

    Indeed, the Qur’an and hadith both contain very explicit incitements towards violence. Could a Muslim be arrested just for publicly reciting them or for uploading a surah that contains them?

    This one is an odd one, given that a lot of religious texts (not just Islamic ones) spend a fair bit of time banging on about unbelievers, etc. If the laws on hate speech were consistently enforced, a lot of religious people (especially preachers) would have to be prosecuted.

    Dunno about UK law though. Teh Poms are an odd bunch. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #3 - May 31, 2013, 06:47 PM

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22732630
     
    So, this gentleman was arrested on terrorism related charges for uploading videos that could be construed in a manner that seems to incite some sort of violence. (I haven’t seen the videos in question, obviously.)

    In the states, I don’t think that this sort of indirect activity would be grounds for arrest. These actions would be protected under freedom of speech laws and would not meet the “yelling fire in a crowded theater” stipulation.

    I tend to think that we just about have things right here in the states in that regard.

    If this sort of arrest is allowable in the UK, it seems to me to be a slippery slope. Indeed, the Qur’an and hadith both contain very explicit incitements towards violence. Could a Muslim be arrested just for publicly reciting them or for uploading a surah that contains them?

    I’m not sure that I feel good about this arrest, even if the guy is a scum bag. What do you guys think?



    I guess it all hinges on whether the lectures he gave or disseminated actually involved direct incitement to acts of violence.

    But yeah, it is a case to pay attention to.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #4 - May 31, 2013, 06:53 PM

    Here is something. A few years ago Muslim activists lobbied for an incitement to religious hatred law which was rejected by parliament on a free vote. Tony Blair supported it though. Many people lobbied against because they suspected in spirit an attempt to smuggle in a kind of blasphemy code.

    Well here's the thing. The Muslim Council of Britain whilst lobbying for this law, sought to exempt the Quran and Hadith from it.

    +++++++

    MUSLIM COUNCIL OF BRITAIN ASKS FOR QUR'AN TO BE EXEMPT FROM RELIGIOUS HATRED LAW

    July 11, 2005

    Muslim leaders in the UK have raised with a Home Office Minister the possibility of the Islamic scriptures being exempted from the proposed new law banning incitement to religious hatred, which is being debated and voted on in the British Parliament today.

    These scriptures include both the Qur'an and the hadiths ("ahadith" in Arabic) which are traditions recording the words and deeds of Muhammad and his first followers. The Racial and Religious Hatred bill is being debated and voted on in the House of Commons today. This is the third reading of the bill, and if passed today will move forward to be debated in the House of Lords.

    REPORT FROM THE MUSLIM WEEKLY

    The following excerpt is from the report in "The Muslim Weekly", 8th-14th June issue, on this meeting.

    A delegation of Muslim leaders and senior scholars met Home Office Minister Paul Goggins this week to seek clarification on the Incitement to Religious Hatred Bill.

    The delegation requested the meeting to seek clarification on a number of matters relating to the bill. Recent confusion regarding freedoms to deliver khutbahs and to recite and quote from the Qur'an and ahadith had raised concerns in the community that dawah and propagatory practices may be curtailed under the new legislation.

    The Minister assured the Muslim community that there was nothing in the bill that would prevent scholars from delivering their sermons or from reciting from the Qu'ran and ahadith. The Minister reiterated that what the bill would do is criminalise incitement to religious hatred against individuals.

    Sir Iqbal Sacranie stated that he was at eased that matters that had caused some obfuscation in the community had been cleared.

    'We're happy that the Home Office has agreed to consult the faith communities when preparing the guidelines to the bill. Muslim scholars may proceed uninhibited in the performance of their duties', he said. The delegation made suggestions to the minister to that tit may be preferable to totally exempt the holy text, which will include the Qur'an and the hadiths from the remit of the Act.

    The minister said, it would be difficult to exempt scriptures because there is likelihood that extreme groups like the BNP may use verses of the Qur'an to incite hatred against the Muslim community. Therefore, the very purpose of the Act would be defeated.

    Scholars had expressed their reservation but fully support the bill.

    http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/print.php?storyid=2727

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #5 - May 31, 2013, 06:56 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Oh, that is really telling.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Iz2kJeuRs

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #6 - May 31, 2013, 06:58 PM

    It really is. This is actually profoundly telling.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #7 - May 31, 2013, 07:00 PM

    Twitter blog article FTW. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #8 - May 31, 2013, 07:01 PM

    Quote
    The Minister reiterated that what the bill would do is criminalise incitement to religious hatred against individuals.


    It's a deep topic if you ask me. Can someone give me the cliffnotes on the video Os posted?
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #9 - May 31, 2013, 07:04 PM

    You haven't heard of Michael Franti?  Huh? Huh? Huh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Franti

    That track is from his first album, of the same name as the track.

    ETA: Well ok, it's a live remix of the track, done in a far more funky style. I like it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #10 - May 31, 2013, 07:06 PM

    Oh I'm at work I didn't even click on it.  Cheesy
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #11 - May 31, 2013, 07:07 PM

     Cheesy Ok. I was thinking "WTF?" grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #12 - May 31, 2013, 07:08 PM

    Had me suspecting that some white Republican had hacked your account for a minute there. bunny

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #13 - May 31, 2013, 07:15 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #14 - June 01, 2013, 01:36 PM

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22732630
     
    So, this gentleman was arrested on terrorism related charges for uploading videos that could be construed in a manner that seems to incite some sort of violence. (I haven’t seen the videos in question, obviously.)

    In the states, I don’t think that this sort of indirect activity would be grounds for arrest. These actions would be protected under freedom of speech laws and would not meet the “yelling fire in a crowded theater” stipulation.

    I tend to think that we just about have things right here in the states in that regard.

    If this sort of arrest is allowable in the UK, it seems to me to be a slippery slope. Indeed, the Qur’an and hadith both contain very explicit incitements towards violence. Could a Muslim be arrested just for publicly reciting them or for uploading a surah that contains them?

    I’m not sure that I feel good about this arrest, even if the guy is a scum bag. What do you guys think?



    If you look at the preceding causes of a US investigation into Anwar-Al-Awlaki's actions, the reasons are similar.
  • UK Freedom of Speech
     Reply #15 - June 03, 2013, 08:50 AM

     Freedom of speech is used to express and challenge ideas and theories, not used to provoke civil unrest. I think I line has to be drawn when one is trying to use freedom of speech as a cover to get away with trying to sway the public to murder, rape, or genocide of any other act which breaks the laws.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
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