Laws inapplicable to god

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- Iluvia
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Laws inapplicable to god
OP - May 29, 2013, 10:39 AM

(Hope i didn't post this in the wrong section)

Okay, here goes..

"The law of humans, physics, biology and every law within this time and space does not apply to god"

Does anyone else got this often?

This always irks me.. To me, it's a convenient excuse for those who doesn't want to think much and limits the opportunity to explore concerned topics.

The muslims i've discussed with love to use similar sentence as a response (to silence) to whatever questions regarding the inconsistency between the law of the universe (whether it is math, physics or biology) and their god. The term 'supernatural', 'metaphysical', which they equate to something that is out of this world and cannot be analyzed by our limited human mind is usually their trump card for this kind of discussion.

Take creation, for example. Many muslims claims that god must surely exist as the 'creator' of the universe because it is 'logically' impossible to have anything without a designer or creator. This claim is usually followed by choosing any object around them and state that the object exists because someone put it there, someone bought it there, and most importantly, someone designed and created it.

"So who creates Allah (the creator)?"

The answer is quick, simple, and often in a defensive tone. "That law doesn't apply to Allah, he is the beginning and creator of all and he is not bound to the law he made."

You know where this goes.. the usual circular reasoning concerning the request for proof of this 'greatness of the unlinkable', the answer that usually consist of "It said so in the quran/hadith" to "Why do you think that the scriptures are telling the truth?" that is replied with "Because it's the word of god" and finally "god knows best".

The discussion often stops whenever they immediately de-links god from universe's law mantra. Most muslims i know prioritize faith before facts or scientific proofs (religious scriptures doesn't count) and therefore adjust the realities around them to suit their believes, true.. but it still irritates me beyond belief because they never gave actual proof nor a convincing argument *and* expect every single human being to accept their ridiculous claim as is, and imply that those who are not in line with their belief are immoral stupidiots. All that, while they base their analogies or sorry excuse for an explanation on 'logic' that is automatically invalid whenever tested on their god.

Why is the sharp sword they use to harshly judge others immediately became blunt and merciful whenever pointed at their own god and religion?

Anyways, i'm curious about everyone's opinion about this convenient double-standard..
- yeezevee
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Laws inapplicable to god
Reply #1 - May 29, 2013, 11:24 AM

Quote from: Iluvia on May 29, 2013, 10:39 AM
(Hope i didn't post this in the wrong section)

Okay, here goes..

"The law of humans, physics, biology and every law within this time and space does not apply to god"

Does anyone else got this often?
..............

Yap.. Laws of Math, physics, chemistry, biology are from human beings, They are not from animals nor from god., So those laws apply to only human beings., Animals and gods don't understand those laws. And those who say that will also say "do what i say not what i do"

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Lluvia
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Laws inapplicable to god
Reply #2 - May 31, 2013, 08:30 PM

There is a simple counterargument that I like to use when having a discussion with a Muslim about this. It consists in one simple question: "Why would it be less logical to believe that the laws don't apply to the Universe than to believe that it don't apply to God?" If everything in the Universe was "designed", it doesn't mean that the Universe itself was designed.

I do believe that what they apply to their god can logically apply to the Universe as well... If, of course, we are willing to accept that the Universe doesn't have a "creator", which seems logical to me since the Universe is defined as "the set of everything that exists". Considering God is outside the Universe is considering he's outside "everything that exist". Unless we give another definition to "Universe"... I asked several religious people what was their definition of "Universe" since their god is supposed to be outside of it and since they won't admit their god is outside "everything that exists". None of them was able to provide me a definition of what their god created...
And then of course it gets even trickier when thinking about heaven, hell, angels... Would they be inside the Universe (since they are "created"), or would they be outside of it ? If angels are inside the Universe, how can they interract directly with God who is outside of it and how can they be close to his "throne" ? What's the "throne of God" anyway, since the scriptures seem pretty literal about it.... Well my opinion is all the equation is clearer without the monotheistic god

Edit: Thanks Lilyesque, I corrected the spelling.

If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
- Lilyesque
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Laws inapplicable to god
Reply #3 - May 31, 2013, 10:34 PM

I think those are perfectly valid points Lluvia and I agree.

Just a help with your spelling it is Throne (like the seat where a Queen sits) not thrown (throwing something across the room).
- ibn Bilal
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Laws inapplicable to god
Reply #4 - May 31, 2013, 10:55 PM

This thread wasn’t exactly what I expected. I thought it would be about all the good, man-made laws that don’t seem to apply to God, such as these:

Laws against cruel and unusual punishment—God clearly doesn’t believe in those if we take a look at hell.

Laws against genocide—Just read the old testament or the Qur’an

Laws against noise pollution—All the shouting from minarets at 4am.

Laws against copyright infringement—All the plagiarism in his holy books

Laws against sexual discrimination—2 women = 1 man

Laws against religious discrimination— The whole dhimmi program

Laws against child abuse—Beat your kids for not praying

Laws against domestic violence—Beat your rebellious wives

Laws against involuntary servitude—Slaves are cool to own and trade

Laws against statutory rape—Nine year olds are cool to marry

Etc...
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