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Theme Changer

 Topic: The story of Saffiyah

 (Read 16854 times)
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  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #90 - March 10, 2013, 12:20 AM

    ^

    I've gone to wiki islam to search up on which verse aborgated which but it doesn't list any references on it ??

    http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur%27an

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #91 - March 10, 2013, 01:27 PM

    The problem with the whole abrogation thing is that it is a completely man-made bunch of nonsense. The scholars were so worried about the conflicting verses that they had to comb through and figure out which verses might have abrogated which.

    There are also hadith that abrogate hadith.

    The whole thing is a bunch of bullshit because they can’t admit that the Qur’an and hadith contain contradictions. It’s so stupid because the very existence of abrogated verses means, by default, that the qur’an does contain contradictions.

    Its’s so dumb, and I know I’m ranting right now, but I’m just amazed at how I ever even believed this shit. There are verses that were abrogated by other verses (like the verses about wine being cool as long as you’re not about to pray), verses that are still recited but their “legislative power” has been abrogated (like the verses about qisas and killing a woman for a woman and a slave for a slave), and verse that were erased but their legislative power remains (like the verse about stoning adulterers.)

    The whole thing is such a mess and I don’t know how Muslim scholars can say this stuff  and honestly believe that it is perfect, miraculous, and from God.
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #92 - March 10, 2013, 02:24 PM

    ^

    yeah but which text in sunni theology is regarded as authentic when it comes to which verse abrogated which?

    I mean like which theologian came up with the shit and wrote it down first. 

    There has to be a reference that muslims go and check to see if a verse has been abrogated or not.. 

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #93 - March 10, 2013, 02:32 PM

    I only know of books in Arabic. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of the author of the particular book I'm thinking of. It's been a while since I cared. If you look in the classical tafsir books, abrogation is discussed but only at the particular verses that are in question, not as a list of which verses abrogate which. Let me do some searching online to see if I can find the books I'm thinking of.
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #94 - March 10, 2013, 02:51 PM

    http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=235460

    This is All in Arabic, but this is "An-Naasikh wal Mansookh Fil-Qur'an" by Ibn Hazm Al Andalusi
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #95 - March 10, 2013, 03:00 PM

     Thanks but if they're in arabic  I'll just go with the tafsir ibn kathir and ibn al jalayin and make notes on abrogated verses as I go along when pretending to be pious this ramadan.
     

    My parents will think I'm being pious when in reality I will be constructing arguments to destroy islam Grin

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #96 - March 12, 2013, 12:29 AM

    Oh Common! It was a real love; just like in the movie "Titanic". In fact, titanic was stolen from Quran. And don't you judge Allah and his Apostle for I will declare jihad on you!!!!!!!!! finmad

    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #97 - March 12, 2013, 03:18 AM

    Just today I had an argument with a friend about this Saffiyah story.   I told it without mentioning Mohammed but simply explained the situation and asked if it was ok.  After getting a hell to the no, I mentioned that Mohammed did this, maaaaaan were they angry. lol

    Then this friend tried to make a come back and say that Mohammed gave people 3 choices  before attacking and look how fair the prophet was:
    1) Convert
    2) Accept Occupation and live like second class citizens in your own land
    3) Die

    I asked my friend then what if the Christians had given us those same terms?
    My friend replied well they are not the prophet and ordered by God
    And I said if he is claiming to be sent by God he should be more responsible and kind instead of acting like a war lord.

    Then my friend said that he was ordered by God to fight the people, and I starting asking if God already knows who is going to accept and not accept why force people to do anything?

    Then my friend was quite, angry but quite and hopefully thinking.

    Like you happymurtad I wondered how I used to fall for this stuff as merciful when its far from it.

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #98 - March 12, 2013, 04:07 AM

    Quote
    1) Convert
    2) Accept Occupation and live like second class citizens in your own land
    3) Die


    Hey... it's almost like what Israel is doing to Palestine. See Israel is being fair they're giving them choices

    1. Convert/Become an Israeli citizen
    2.  Accept Occupation and live like second class citizens in your own land
    3. Die (if you try to rebel)

    Like I said, it's no fun when you're on the receiving end of the invasion, but if your the 'occupier' you're completely deaf to the suffering of the people who you're shoving over under 'God's guidance'. I guess it's the Jew's God's' will since they pretty much took over. Seems legit.

    Very Ironic to me...

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #99 - March 12, 2013, 04:32 AM

    Exactly, so they shouldn't complain cause you know it fair and all and the jews are the people of the book and acting just like mohammed!     Cheesy Cheesy  Man it just gets harder and harder not to laugh at this.

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #100 - March 12, 2013, 07:17 AM

    I only know of books in Arabic. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of the author of the particular book I'm thinking of. It's been a while since I cared. If you look in the classical tafsir books, abrogation is discussed but only at the particular verses that are in question, not as a list of which verses abrogate which. Let me do some searching online to see if I can find the books I'm thinking of.


    What about Al-Suyuti's Al Itqan Fi Uloom al-Quran? I have a translated version.

    FreeThought Wiki is looking for translators!

    Current projects: Faraj Foda's "al-Haqiqa al Ghaib" (Arabic) and Turan Dursun's "Din Bu I" (Turkish)
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #101 - July 22, 2013, 03:55 AM

    And people defend this and claim he was perfect. Chilling. happymurtad needs to write a book, he'll be on the New York Times bestsellers list.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #102 - July 22, 2013, 08:41 AM

    Quote
    happymurtad needs to write a book


    I'm going to start a petition if he doesn't make a promise that he will. Hand deliver it to the US embassy in London. Start a campaign of civil disobedience. I'm serious.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #103 - July 22, 2013, 01:22 PM

     Cheesy
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #104 - July 22, 2013, 02:40 PM

    This thread was a great and informative read. I guess I vaguely knew of the Saffiyah story back when I believed, but never knew more about it than the bullshit that was fed to me in the masjid.

    Also,
    The problem with the whole abrogation thing is that it is a completely man-made bunch of nonsense. The scholars were so worried about the conflicting verses that they had to comb through and figure out which verses might have abrogated which.

    There are also hadith that abrogate hadith.

    The whole thing is a bunch of bullshit because they can’t admit that the Qur’an and hadith contain contradictions. It’s so stupid because the very existence of abrogated verses means, by default, that the qur’an does contain contradictions.

    Its’s so dumb, and I know I’m ranting right now, but I’m just amazed at how I ever even believed this shit. There are verses that were abrogated by other verses (like the verses about wine being cool as long as you’re not about to pray), verses that are still recited but their “legislative power” has been abrogated (like the verses about qisas and killing a woman for a woman and a slave for a slave), and verse that were erased but their legislative power remains (like the verse about stoning adulterers.)

    The whole thing is such a mess and I don’t know how Muslim scholars can say this stuff  and honestly believe that it is perfect, miraculous, and from God.

    Agree 100% with everything in this post.
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #105 - July 22, 2013, 03:18 PM

    Yet another reason for happymurtad to write a book. I went through his posts looking for his introduction and couldn't find it, which is frustrating as I'm gagging to read it. The little snippets of his past I've read in the comments has me craving the full story.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #106 - February 25, 2014, 07:00 AM

    Yes, I mean a man who has studied the Arabic language and finds faults with Islam will shut the mouths of those who say, "Have you any knowledge of the Arabic language? The translations are wrong."
  • The story of Saffiyah
     Reply #107 - November 09, 2016, 06:46 AM

    Quote
    Book 008, Number 3455:
    'Ata related that when they were with Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) at the funeral of Maimuna In Sarif, Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) said: This is the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) ; so when you lift her bier, do not shake her or disturb her, but be gentle, for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had nine wives, with eight of whom he shared his time, but to one of them, he did not allot a share. 'Ati said: The one to whom he did not allot a share of time was Safiyya, daughter of Huyayy b. Akhtab.


    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=5529.0

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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