Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
Yesterday at 08:44 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
Yesterday at 04:40 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Yesterday at 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
Yesterday at 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
April 18, 2024, 06:39 PM

New Britain
April 18, 2024, 05:41 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 18, 2024, 05:47 AM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Hey guys

 (Read 2322 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hey guys
     OP - January 27, 2013, 05:09 AM

    Hey guys
    I come from a religious Muslim family. I am not really an ex Muslim, or maybe I am. I don't know. I just came here to learn more about religion and life in general. Hopefully the discussions I have here are interesting. I believe that a loving creator created reality. From him came the universe and I believe he created multiple universes. Behind the creator there is unknowable darkness. This universe developed and eventually it became conscious of itself. We are the conscious aspects of the universe. The physical body holds the divine aspect of the creator. When somebody dies I believe they travel the astral planes or "Spirit world". From there they can go to heaven or hell. I also believe souls can be reincarnated living many lives. Heaven is the highest level a soul can go where he is close or with the divine creator. Hell is lowest level a soul can go where they are far removed from creator or closest to the state of oblivion or to the unknowable darkness. I believe in dreams being gateways to the spirit world. I don't believe we just rot when we die, because I believe consciousness can separate itsel from the physical body since people have OOBE. Anyways I would love to hear what are your guys views on nature of reality and the universe. Here are some questions
    1. Where do we go when we die?
    2. How was the universe created?
    3. Is there a God? Why or why not
    4. What is the purpose of life?
    5. Is there more to life then what is perceived by our 5 senses?
    6. Who would be the perfect human? give example

     
  • Hey guys
     Reply #1 - January 27, 2013, 05:18 AM

    Welcome rokomo Smiley Interesting ideas. Sounds like you have given a lot of thought to these things. Most of us here are secularists, i.e. while most people here are atheists, we try to be open minded and receptive to various beliefs and ideas, especially by people who are not dogmatic or trying to impose their ideas on others but just want to have a conversation about various ideas.

    Personally, I am atheistic about any kind of anthropomorphic "god" but I am agnostic about a lot of things like multiverses and some kind of larger consciousness that our individual consciousness may be part of or manifestation of. I don't know and until I die, I won't know, if there is anything to know.

    I try to keep my mind open both to learning new things and to being wrong about what I believe or think or wish is true about life and death. What I do know after almost 2 decades of studying religions, starting with Islam but then all of the major ones, is that no man-made religion (Islam being also a man-made religion) can capture the vast, unlimited possibilities of the natural universe. There may be inklings of truth or beauty in various religions or ideologies, but none of them contain the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    I know what is not truth... And I look forward to always learning more about what may be true.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Hey guys
     Reply #2 - January 27, 2013, 06:09 AM

    Welcome! parrot

    I want to quote something that a thought was aweeesome by a notorious member named sethyboy. It's a great post, hope you have the time to read it.

    Remember what it was like before you were born?

    Probably the same shit after you die.


    Quote
    I'm going to actually post something a little more serious now.

    Your emotions, your automatic (breathing, heartbeat, finger wrinkling) and controlled (farting, calling people dickheads, masturbating etc.) motor functions, and your entire ability to sense the world around you are all a part of your brain.

    When you die, your brain stops functioning entirely. Even if it wanted to, it isn't getting any oxygen to do so. When the single-celled organisms making up your body die, that's pretty much it. Game over.

    Another thing to note is that everything you know and all of your memories physically exist inside of your brain. That's why associating new things with things you already know helps you remember them faster - you build connections between different parts of your brain.

    When you die and your body is buried, it eventually decays and goes back into the earth it came from. No matter what you choose to have happen to you after you die, the atoms that made up your body still exist and are on the earth (except for space launch burial).

    Even if your body is perfectly preserved, it will eventually be swallowed up with the rest of the earth into our Sun. If your body leaves the solar system, it will eventually be caught in some black hole, supernova, or some other form of cosmic phenomena that will destroy it. Once inside some cosmic entity, the atoms that made you become part of it, and could even be changed entirely through nuclear fusion or conversion to energy. What all this means is that any kind of afterlife that relies on your body staying intact cannot last forever, as your body will not.

    As for the concept of a soul:

    Everything you experience comes into your brain through sensory organs. With the brain shut down, you cannot experience life any longer. All of your memories and the wiring in your brain that made you act the way you do are now just dead brain cells in a dead body.

    Seeing as the afterlife is in what seems like an entirely new reality, and your brain cannot generate this reality due to it being dead, your soul must also exist out of our current models of reality and space time. Nothing from your body can go anywhere because for something in you to disappear would either violate the law of conservation of energy or the law of conservation of matter. Because the supposed soul exists outside of reality, and it is impossible (as far as we know) to observe it, anything said about souls and where they go is pure speculation, relying on the assumption that the soul even exists. Your consciousness is merely just your brain thinking thoughts and reacting to sensory input, which doesn't happen when you are dead.


    Same as allat, there are many things I am unsure about, however, if god supposedly existed, who knows what/who he is? The moment something can be debunked (like Islam constantly is) shouldn't we just move on instead of clinging?
    We don't need to be obsessed finding who the real god is. The Quranic god is angry, threatening, mean, and so so needy. Then he offers a few chapters to tell us what we will get in return for spending a lifetime worshipping him.
     Religion aside, Islam is just another system that offers some philosophy on life and you can take and leave whatever you think is useful - don't need a religion to tell you stealing/lying/murder will hurt others =]

    Regarding the perfect human - I mean...the question sounds wrong. You're basing that on Mohammed supposedly being the perfect example right? It's just a romantic idea; perfection doesn't exist, and it's definitely subjective. To me, no matter how good he may have been, to endorse wife smacking, be it with a feather, a metaphor, whatever, it detracts from his "perfection" immediately.

    I'm interested in your answers to your questions btw Smiley Hope to hear from you soon!

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Hey guys
     Reply #3 - January 27, 2013, 09:20 AM

    Hello Rokomo - cool name  Smiley

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Hey guys
     Reply #4 - January 27, 2013, 11:12 AM

     parrot

    Welcome

    HG Wells in the Time Machine has a fascinating description of the end of the Earth!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Hey guys
     Reply #5 - January 27, 2013, 04:00 PM

    I am well aware of the concept that our consciousness is connected with our brain. It probably is. We might even die and stop existing for awhile. Yet in an infinitely complex universe where probability of something happening again multiple times it is inevitable. Who we are is constantly changing. Our brains are constantly changing due to neural plasticity. The only thing that stays the same is our self awareness. I believe the gland called the pineal gland is the seat of the soul. It is responsible for minds eye imagining, and DMT is produced when we die, which gives people images of an after life. Though this could be purely evolutionary phenomena. We could possibly be just very well designed artificial intelligence, when when we die we go to nothing or the oblivion. Though I think the second scenario is less likely.

    ps. what would you call people like me?
  • Hey guys
     Reply #6 - January 27, 2013, 05:33 PM

    1. Where do we go when we die?
    - Either an alternate dimension astral plane based on our own experiences in the time period we live in.
    OR the state of mind before we were born, which was no consciousness.
    Also why do only humans get to have a special place when they die, what about our pets and certain intelligent animals. They have feeling emotions AND MEMORIES too.
    This is the arrogance of man's religion.

    2. How was the universe created?
    Big Bang? But as for what caused the Big Bang I say, we as humans should keep exploring and NEVER settle on a SINGLE idea like religion tells you to. If you settle on a 'belief' instead of searching for HARD facts. Not obscure stories and myths from thousands of years ago  you stunt human evolution in understanding.

    3. Is there a God? Why or why not
    There could be there could not be. I'm agnostic and I believe the existence of God CANNOT be proven or disprove. Some people point to life and say that that's proof, but it doesn't prove a particular religion/God is the correct one. Some Gods are cruel and some are 'benevolent' there are many Gods that have come and gone out of existence simply because ancient tribes or people stopped believing. God is what you make of it, not an absolute fact you should impose on others.

    4. What is the purpose of life?
    Living, reproducing, assuring the survival of the human race. And on a personal level BEING HAPPY and enjoying LIFE! People who are really obessively devout are usually pretty miserable and depressing because they are restricting their possibilities and enjoying living earth in the hopes of eternal bliss in the afterlife. And they know deep down they are miserable but the part of their brain that tells them; I feel bad, this feels suffocating, I'm fearful, is blocked out.  I see those people as too lazy to make paradise on earth so they hope death will do everything for them. Happiness, Bliss and positive feelings exist on earth and should be enjoyed while we know for a fact we are alive.

    5. Is there more to life then what is perceived by our 5 senses?
    Yes, the proof is for example things like  ultra-violet light that we cannot see with the naked eye but we know is a thing. Oxygen which we cannot see but we know the compounds that create it. Etc. Humans are arrogant in thinking we can see and perceive everything but we cannot.

    6. Who would be the perfect human? give example
    None, perfection is subjective. That is what makes us human, we make mistakes and we learn and we grow. We are different, in race, in likes, dislikes, our bodies and most importantly in thoughts. If we were all perfect we would stop developing and growing and would no longer be human. No one is perfect, the word used to make often  someone else feel inadequate or to elevate the ego or another.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Hey guys
     Reply #7 - January 27, 2013, 09:31 PM

    I am well aware of the concept that our consciousness is connected with our brain. It probably is. We might even die and stop existing for awhile. Yet in an infinitely complex universe where probability of something happening again multiple times it is inevitable. Who we are is constantly changing. Our brains are constantly changing due to neural plasticity. The only thing that stays the same is our self awareness. I believe the gland called the pineal gland is the seat of the soul. It is responsible for minds eye imagining, and DMT is produced when we die, which gives people images of an after life. Though this could be purely evolutionary phenomena. We could possibly be just very well designed artificial intelligence, when when we die we go to nothing or the oblivion. Though I think the second scenario is less likely.

    ps. what would you call people like me?

    .
    Hi! And welcome! I hope you like this forum! To be honest, I am sure you would love it.

    In my opinion, all you are providing is pure speculation. This can possibly be that, that can possibly be this. It is no surprise that you consistently use the word "might", "it's possible", "maybe", over and over again in your posts . Rokomo, you can speculate an INFINITE amount of possibilities within the limits of your creativity and imagination, and frankly, without evidence, it doesn't make your claims any more plausible or true. By the way, neural plasticity refers to changes in neural pathways and systems that occur depending on behavioural changes, mood swings, environmental changes, etc etc DURING a person's life. There will be no pathways, synapses, or thought processes once the brain dies, and that is the crux of it, plain and simple.
  • Hey guys
     Reply #8 - January 27, 2013, 11:47 PM

    Welcome rokomo Smiley Interesting ideas. Sounds like you have given a lot of thought to these things. Most of us here are secularists, i.e. while most people here are atheists, we try to be open minded and receptive to various beliefs and ideas, especially by people who are not dogmatic or trying to impose their ideas on others but just want to have a conversation about various ideas.

    Personally, I am atheistic about any kind of anthropomorphic "god" but I am agnostic about a lot of things like multiverses and some kind of larger consciousness that our individual consciousness may be part of or manifestation of. I don't know and until I die, I won't know, if there is anything to know.

    I try to keep my mind open both to learning new things and to being wrong about what I believe or think or wish is true about life and death. What I do know after almost 2 decades of studying religions, starting with Islam but then all of the major ones, is that no man-made religion (Islam being also a man-made religion) can capture the vast, unlimited possibilities of the natural universe. There may be inklings of truth or beauty in various religions or ideologies, but none of them contain the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    I know what is not truth... And I look forward to always learning more about what may be true.



    I love you Allat.
  • Hey guys
     Reply #9 - January 28, 2013, 01:59 AM

    Hey there welcome

    1. Where do we go when we die?
    -There is no evidence to date that we have that consciousness is linked to anything else other than a functioning brain. Given the evidence one can assume that once you die thats it. Of course I could be wrong. Won't know until I die. If this answer seems unsatisfying to you, then let me quote Mark Twain

    Quote
    “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” -Mark Twain


    2. How was the universe created?
    -Currently the Big Bang offers and explanation how the universe came to be in its current form. That is that the universe expanded from an infinitely small and infinitely dense point called a singularity. It is currently unknown whether or not that singularity always existed or if it was created due to some other activity. This is currently under active research by String Theorist. String Theory does postulate that there actually is a multiverse and individual universes exist on membranes. String Theory seems to suggest that universes occasionally bump into each other and create new offspring universes, which could account for the Big Bang if proven true. Might I add that String Theory is undergoing active research right now, it has not passed all the requirements it needs to gain the status of a Scientific Theory, mainly because a lot of these things are hard to conduct experiments on which is vital to the Scientific Method. However, mathematics does seem to support the ideas behind String Theory which is a good sign. I wanted to mention all of this to put it into perspective and to tell you not to take is as gospel but rather with a grain of salt. However, be aware of it too.
     
    3. Is there a God? Why or why not
    -I don't know. I can tell you I have not seen any good evidence of the existence of a god however. I do not believe that the god featured in either the Bible or the Quran can exist though, due to many contradictions in both books. And if by some slim slim chance the god featured in these books does exist he has been vastly and grossly misrepresented.

    4. What is the purpose of life?
    To quote Carl Sagan
    Quote
    “The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life’s meaning. We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.” — Carl Sagan


    Your purpose in life is what you decide that it is. If you are seeking some cosmic purpose or divine reason for life, there is none. Life is nothing more than complex, sustained, on-going chemical reactions, capable of reproducing themselves and changing and evolving. Only you can dictate the purpose of your life.

    5. Is there more to life then what is perceived by our 5 senses?
    -Perhaps. I think that if there is my answer to number 1 still holds for this question. To our current knowledge however, no there is not. Refer to my answer to question number 4.

    6. Who would be the perfect human? give example
    -The one that doesn't exist. By definition, perfection wants nothing, needs nothing, and can do no wrong. I would argue the only human that is able to do this is the human that does not exist.

    "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
  • Hey guys
     Reply #10 - January 28, 2013, 02:01 AM

    HM  Big hug

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »