Depression and suicide

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Depression and suicide
Reply #120 - April 29, 2014, 03:44 AM

Quote from: schizo on April 29, 2014, 03:14 AM
I can assure you that this isn't mere maudlin thoughts talking as a result of a disease. The doctors have explicitly informed me that they refuse to change my meds until two years have elapsed.

Given that when I go back home I'm going to be told ad nauseum that my feelings and impulses are a result of deficient iman, I don't see how on earth I'll be able to recover.

I always ask muslim associates: give me one, just one (logically coherent) answer to my doubts and I'll believe again. I'll try and rationalise away everything I can. I'll even become fucking quran-only, for heaven's sake!

How do you imagine this helping you and your situation?

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #121 - April 29, 2014, 03:50 AM

Smoothing out friction between me and the family.

I won't divulge much on a public forum but once I leave university in June that is me done for good. I've upset them far too many times over the past three years so there'll be no chance of me gaining my independence, at all. If I capitulate to Islam, somehow, I can even out the situation and maybe salvage what little I can. At the very least, I can seek solace in an afterlife. You must understand that certain muslims are incapable of understanding depression because the idea of nihilism is sheer heresy.
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Reply #122 - April 29, 2014, 03:54 AM

I've come to terms with the fact that depression is a part of me. I am, however, willing to make things better. If I'm pretty much stuck at home, with very little control over my life, I don't see how that is going to improve anything.
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Reply #123 - April 29, 2014, 03:55 AM

If that's what you need to do to smooth things out with your family, then go for it.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #124 - April 29, 2014, 03:58 AM

I don't think you understand. I'm saying that islamic theology is a hodge podge — schematic, if you will. For me to be able to own up to the unislamic behaviour I've conducted, I first need to be convinced of Islam's truth otherwise the fundamental causes of nihilism and hopelessness won't be addressed.

It's a grim situation, in all honesty.
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Reply #125 - April 29, 2014, 04:01 AM

I'll reiterate: Islam doesn't allow me to feel the way that I feel. It could even be considered a form of minor shirk — if not that, then dahriyyah.

Where's HM when you need him?
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Reply #126 - April 29, 2014, 04:06 AM

I'm not sure why either you or I should be particularly concerned with Islamic theology. If the point is to make things better with your family when you're coming back home, then you don't actually have to believe anything in Islam, unless I'm missing something.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #127 - April 29, 2014, 04:25 AM

One cannot merely expect to feel better by deceiving oneself.

If, for instance, you have no chance of ever gaining your independence, if gaining said independence resulted in a negative assertion of patriarchal roles on other family members, the only solution is to fully believe insofar as praxis is concerned. Otherwise you'd merely be chasing an illusion or sink into the deepest depths of despair. I'm looking for constructive dialogue with my family, not some inane peace and love twaddle. Doctors and therapists have repeated that I need direction in life, but unless islam supplies said direction, I'll be stuck at home lounging off my family's earnings and doing little else. I fail to see how this is going to make things any better.
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Reply #128 - April 29, 2014, 04:53 AM

It seems that you have your mind made up then. Really hope the best for you, and please keep in touch, as I'm sure others have also told you.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #129 - May 01, 2014, 12:23 AM

So I've been mulling over whether to post this. I think I'll bite the bullet because I'm at a serious crossroads and just don't know what to do.

At around 7:30 AM on the 29th of April I decided to ingest a glass of thick bleach as well as create a bleach and vinegar mixture in order to generate a gas that I could inhale. This was my final exit — I was giddy with anticipation and wanted to make sure that this wasn't a mere gesture. This was my fifth suicide attempt in the space of three months (others included Zopiclone overdose, antidepressant overdose+alcohol, paracetamol+benzo+antidepressant overdose+alcohol and water intoxication.) All previous suicide attempts (obviously) failed but I never needed to be hospitalised. This one, however, resulted in me coughing and vomiting profusely. I panicked not because I was going to die, but because the retching noises I was making were so loud that my flatmates started knocking on my door asking me if I was alright. When the coughs and vomiting started to subside, I realised that I was not becoming more and more unconscious but more cognisant of my surroundings — although I was (quite understandably) struggling to function. Deciding that discretion was the better part of valour, I just about made it up to my university's support office before promptly gasping out that I needed to go to the hospital. My rationale was that I wasn't going to feel shit like this just because of a botched suicide attempt.

I'll spare you all of the details of what happened at the hospital but three (tentative) results were achieved.
1) my medication is going to be reviewed, which is basically a cover up for saying take these meds, even if they make you feel more suicidal.
2) Apparently I am not even on a waiting list for therapy. They are still working out the best therapy that I can receive. Whilst I took this positively in public, I was dismayed to say the least. How many more times do I have to attempt suicide until they find me a suitable method of therapy?
3) I have to see a home treatment team every day just to check that things are ok. Whilst I appreciate this, I can't see it serving much use. I endeavoured to explain why the issue of depression is causing friction between me and the family (as the lowest depths of depression are technically unislamic) but they found it difficult to cognise just what exactly I was on about.

I have no idea what I'm going to do now. I have mathematically calculated that I will be failing the year (even if I pass all remaining exams) and as this is a repeat year, I have no chance of repeating the year for the third time. Even if the college decided to offer me the chance to come back, my parents are under the illusion that I will be graduating this year and do not want me to continue with my education (away from the home, at the very least.) My parents are capable of cutting off my access to funding if they so desire. But let us assume that I decide not to go back to university for good. I won't be able to deal with the shame of dishonouring my family. My parents always stressed my education first and foremost and I just can't disappoint them. I've already suitably behaved unislamically for the past three years and I'm already overridden with severe guilt for allowing depression and my selfish desires to get in the way. I hate to think how I'll feel when I break the fact to them that I've failed university. I'm sure they love me but I just haven't been able to communicate my feelings (as they largely fall outside the juristiction of Islam) to them successfully.

If I move out, I foresee a vigorous assertion of patriarchal authority. My mother and sister don't deserve to suffer for my misdeeds. And before people say that is just the disease talking, I'm well aware of patriarchal culture in islamic households. I speak from experience.

I honestly see very few negatives if I do decide to commit suicide. Granted, my parents, siblings (and few remaining friends) will grieve for a while but they'll get over my pitiful existence. as for putative positives, to list a few: my family won't have to deal with my disability, my mother and sister may become more willing to liberate themselves from the yoke of patriarchal hegemony, my father won't have to be disappointed with me for not being the ideal son, the mental health service won't need to expend unneeded resources on me, my disability funds can go to someone more deserving and my friends won't have to deal with my fluctuating and tempestuous disposition.

At the moment I can't see a single reason to live and what's worse I can see much happiness in the absence of my existence. I've thought about this long and hard, and I wish I had the liberty to die in a dignified manner. Suicide should be a civil right, not something that causes greater despair when carried out unsuccessfully, because the provisions aren't available readily to ensure that one dies gracefully (nembutal, morphine, exit bag, etc.)

I'm just sick and fucking tired of everything. I don't want to spend nearly all of my waking time contemplating this and failing to get it right ad nauseum. I simply have no idea what to do anymore.
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Reply #130 - May 01, 2014, 01:35 AM

Hi Schizo, sorry to hear about your situation, i just wanted to pass along this website www.changing-lives.org.uk/ its a charity/therapy group, and a lot of the therapists counsel muslims either in group sessions or one to one, my sis has used it for years for her islamic and other life problems and its been an amazing help for her, theyre usually found at local community centres.. i think talking about your situation with a stranger who is also professional is the most effective way of dealing with this..

i've had a lot of experience too and can relate in a way, my dad had very severe depression and suicidal tendencies, he was also a very violent man, we basically spent parts of our childhood with him attempting group suicide as a family, my mum and siblings.. our house was smashed to pieces and my mum was beaten up daily, Life was abysmal.. We were also bullied at school because everyone knew my dad was a freak, so there was no where to turn and i just didnt want to exist anymore, i have felt a mild depression and sense of hopelesness on and off my whole life because of this, i dont know how to shake it off really, ive never had therapy and dont like taking meds.. not sure why i'm sharing that, well probably just to say i kind of understand.. but i think your situation is very serious and i really think you need to see a different GP as soon as you can, and i think talking therapy is very important for you to help heal.. once again, im sorry to hear about your current situation..

All the best x
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Reply #131 - May 01, 2014, 03:24 AM

I am sorry that you are not being understood about family pressures.
I have had to explain cultural things to Western emergency workers until I am blue in the face. Is it that, could that be why they do not understand?
I am so frustrated about your medication. If an SSRI looks at me, I try to kill myself. I cannot take any of those.
Is there any way at all that you can get an advocate? A social worker? A university counselor?
Here, in the light of illness, they often put university on hold rather than kicking you out. In fact, our depressed students are entitled to assistance with everything, from assignments to scheduling to attendance, as a disabled person. To not give accommodation to the disabled is illegal here.
Please keep reaching out. Depression creates this tunnel vision in it's sufferers. It is not a reality, it is depression you are seeing.
Life is bigger than that. There are more possibilities out there.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Reply #132 - May 01, 2014, 04:32 AM

Schizo,

You may foresee certain things happening if you move out, but they may not pan out that way; hopefully you will be willing to at least try this to see what happens for sure.

And as for breaking the news to them, I know anecdotes aren't going to help that much, but I did once have a yearlong bout of depression--interestingly enough from a medication I was taking at the time, and I didn't put two and two together--and I had a pretty bad school year as a result and neglected a ton of responsibilities, and I started feeling this weird panic and absolute dread about the future. But I tend not to like to tell people about things like that, so I completely kept it a secret from my family and friends and had to keep coming up with lies and excuses to make it sound like everything was going totally fine.

One night I finally just picked up the phone and called my mother and explained how I had been feeling first, how bad it had been, and then once she understood where I was at, I told her about any fuck-ups from the prior year and just came clean about everything. If I had done it the other way around, I doubt she'd have been so totally dismissive of slipping grades and neglected obligations, but being honest about my position first and foremost seemed to make her understand that the rest was trivial and could be dealt with in time. And it was, really. I look back now and remember feeling that panic and dread, but I can barely understand why I had, as three said, this tunnel vision where I could not imagine resolutions. It's not that the troubles were exaggerated in my mind as much as I couldn't see anything past or around them.

I know in your case there is a huge religious element that may affect how they understand your depression, but I do honestly believe it is worth a try. I don't know of any remotely loving family members who wouldn't much rather have heard about the extent of a loved one's depression than hearing about their suicide. If you just committed suicide, I am sure that those who love you would desperately wish that they had been given the opportunity to support you and try to help you take your problems one step at a time. They would at least like the chance.

I don't think you and I have spoken a lot on here, but I'm always around if you need a good ear. Also, I have no idea where you live, it doesn't sound like the states, but if for some reason you happen to be in the New York area, I am available to go to the hospital/university and pitch a fit that will be whispered of throughout the ages for not having helped you find therapy. They will have a picture of my face with a red X over it taped behind every security desk after.

I really hope you'll hang in there.
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Reply #133 - May 01, 2014, 08:40 AM

Ah yes Lua, i was presuming he is from the UK, if you are schizo then that organisation i posted above is very good, they have muslim and non muslim therapists and all male group sessions, it depends what area you live in really and what is available..

[quote author=three link=topic=22973.msg749382#msg749382 date=1398914
Please keep reaching out. Depression creates this tunnel vision in it's sufferers. It is not a reality, it is depression you are seeing.
Life is bigger than that. There are more possibilities out there.
[/quote]

true, i see a situation like this as just one chapter in your life, it is not a dead end, you can turn a fresh page and write a new one.. you are young and this is just how you feel right now today i let my mild depression carry on because i never seeked help, just kept it to myself, i'm fine these days but just have moments of self doubt..

Please seek help at uni too.. xxx

peace bro x
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Reply #134 - May 01, 2014, 09:58 AM

Quote from: schizo on May 01, 2014, 12:23 AM
I simply have no idea what to do anymore.

Just carry on with what you're doing - posting here for a start. Carry on living and seeing the future. This is a temporary feeling that wasn't there in the past, will change in the future with help and changing circumstance, and shall not define you forever. Speak to the help that comes to see you and tell them your feelings. This shall pass.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Reply #135 - May 01, 2014, 01:03 PM

Quote from: schizo on May 01, 2014, 12:23 AM
At the moment I can't see a single reason to live

Throbbing Gristle.

Strikes me that our Gen has a fierce will to live despite all the shit that life has thrown at him.
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Reply #136 - May 01, 2014, 01:20 PM

I remember hearing a catch phrase from a suicide prevention group that still strikes a cord with me.
'Suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem'.
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Reply #137 - May 01, 2014, 04:55 PM

Quote from: schizo on April 29, 2014, 03:14 AM
I can assure you that this isn't mere maudlin thoughts talking as a result of a disease. The doctors have explicitly informed me that they refuse to change my meds until two years have elapsed.

Hi schizo., hope you are feeling good to day.. just curious what medicines are you taking., You know along with medications, walking/running and doing bit of exercise does really help people that are bit down in life. If you don't have any neurological problems, quite often these so-called Psychiatrists/doctors don't know why they are giving certain medications to their patients..
Quote
Given that when I go back home I'm going to be told ad nauseum that my feelings and impulses are a result of deficient iman, I don't see how on earth I'll be able to recover.

what feeling and impulses are you talking? , Sorry I didn't read all of your posts but to me, you appears to be quite normal guy and having the same problems many people have in life.
Quote
I always ask muslim associates: give me one, just one (logically coherent) answer to my doubts and I'll believe again. I'll try and rationalise away everything I can. I'll even become fucking quran-only, for heaven's sake!

Hi schizo., I just don't see any GOOD REASON for you to go to them and ask Muslim associates to give one, just one logically coherent answer to your doubts.

what is the point? Why are you going to them and asking them about Islam?

Are you trying to convert them out of Islam?? why?? It appears you are trying to force yourself on to something such as ..Either you have to be a Muslim guy or your friends/relatives should get out of Islam....

why do that.,

there is always a middle line life., I mean there are many things that Muslim folks like as you and me like., There is some common ground between Muslims and Non-Muslims.. both are still human beings... aren't they? aren't we??

with best wishes
yeezevee

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Reply #138 - May 01, 2014, 09:33 PM

Wow just did this poll and so many!

Didn't expect so many people to have depression or suicidal thoughts after leaving Islam. Doesn't make sense to me, I can't relate to it in any way.

I do not believe it has nothing to do with Islam or leaving Islam. There are probably other underlying issues though. Lack of self-esteem, self-worth - no event, person or religion can ever be the true cause of that.

Depression is often the result of how you perceive the world, how you think...and years of bad thinking + negative self-talk > depression. Bad depression > suicidal thoughts

I'd request you guys to look into the self-help world so you can start conditioning your mind and start thinking more positively
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Reply #139 - May 01, 2014, 11:58 PM

Quote from: Aryan Khan on May 01, 2014, 09:33 PM
Wow just did this poll and so many!

Didn't expect so many people to have depression or suicidal thoughts after leaving Islam. Doesn't make sense to me, I can't relate to it in any way.

I do not believe it has nothing to do with Islam or leaving Islam. There are probably other underlying issues though. Lack of self-esteem, self-worth - no event, person or religion can ever be the true cause of that.

Depression is often the result of how you perceive the world, how you think...and years of bad thinking + negative self-talk > depression. Bad depression > suicidal thoughts

I'd request you guys to look into the self-help world so you can start conditioning your mind and start thinking more positively

Losing everything, everyone, and every reality and expectation you have ever known is hard to treat with positive thought.

Depression is a physical problem. Brain studies have shown this. Trauma can bring on depression, and losing everything is traumatic. Never mind the rest of us, who might experience worse repercussions.

Your equation is insulting. Maybe you don't realize. Maybe your family doesn't mind you losing your religion. Maybe you are not afraid, and have no reason to be. I wish it were so easy for everyone.

The best practice of self help is seeking a doctor's care when you are ill. If you can't relate, you can't relate.

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Reply #140 - May 02, 2014, 01:00 AM

Quote from: three on May 01, 2014, 11:58 PM
Losing everything, everyone, and every reality and expectation you have ever known is hard to treat with positive thought.

Depression is a physical problem. Brain studies have shown this. Trauma can bring on depression, and losing everything is traumatic. Never mind the rest of us, who might experience worse repercussions. ................

you mean chemical/biochemical problem..... I think in ex_Muslims it is more of a problem if they are young e.g., between 15-30 year old and my be worse in 20 to 25 year old who are smart and very venerable to emotional break down., Often this gets compounded with other problems such as financial/job insecurity/joblessness etc..etc..

But if we look in to the general statistics of suicide rates in different countries/cultures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate that tells us the problem lies somewhere else. Ex_Muslims case is very unique in the sense the best people to support such venerable persons are usually family members and friends. Unfortunately Ex_Ms loose that support because they are ex-Ms, unless they make new family and new friend circle that doesn't care about the religious belief of the person, it is hard for such wonderful people who are way ahead of the crowd in every way..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #141 - July 21, 2016, 10:50 PM

http://philosophicalsociety.com/Archives/Philosophy%20And%20Depression.htm

An article a fellow Ex-Muslim shared with me I thought people would find it interesting.
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Reply #142 - July 22, 2016, 04:56 AM

I've struggled with suicidal depression related to my bipolar disorder since I was at least 4 years old, possibly earlier, so basically my entire life. My first suicide attempt was at 7, and ever since then I've struggled with feeling suicidal and depressed. I have two kinds of suicidal thoughts: nagging ones that are kind of like OCD, they're just constantly there, obsessively being like "oh there's a knife, kill yourself", "oh there's a rope, kill yourself", "oh there's an embarrassing memory, kill yourself." Those ones can be controlled with medication. The second is stress-induced. It gets worse the higher the level of stress, anxiety and mental anguish I am in. Those ones can't be controlled with medication, only with getting me out of the bad situation that is making me suicidal.

This is the first depressive episode in my entire life in which I haven't been violently suicidal or self harmed, and it's mostly due to the stress and mental anguish I'm feeling being very low right now. This is great, and like, I know that I will never be "cured" and my bipolar will never be gone, but if the rest of my depressive episodes don't get any worse than this, I can live with it.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
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