Dis gun' be good.
Yes, as far as statistics are concerned.
Exactly and if you take the statistics only at face value then you reach that conclusion.
However if you analyse them, you find out that the 'gender wage gap' is merely a myth.
This video explains it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow&feature=player_embeddedBut I will still point out the important facts from it (The sources are in the video though):
- Men tend to study those subjects which tend to pay higher than the subjects women study. Men tend to study subjects like Mathematics, Physics, Engineering ect as opposed to women who tend more towards sociology, English Literature ect. The jobs for both graduates are different of course, and since society values the former more than the latter this also means that the pay is higher.
- Women tend to get more part time jobs as opposed to full time jobs. In most cases, part time jobs pay less than full time jobs, even for the same position. Men tend to go for full time jobs as opposed to part time jobs.
- Women take more time off than men to raise children. This plays a very big part in the 'wage gap'. I think this is perhaps the biggest factor as to why there exists a 'gender-gap'. There are also many indirect factors linking to this too [ie women working part time, or women not trying to get into jobs which could affect their ability to have children in the future, these jobs also tend to be quite high paying].
- Men tend to work more dangerous jobs which of course tend to pay more [builders, for example].
I also somewhere that in the 'wage gap' research they tend to use stay-at-home mums to drag down the income of women. I will try to find the source for this. Also this is an economics professor who has no specific bias and has used sources to prove his points. I'd much rather trust an unbiased, professional source as opposed to obviously biased sources from feminists who have no clue how economics/businesses operate.
In fact here is evidence that single women earn more than men:
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.htmlOf course you never hear feminists talking about turning this deficit, which is why feminism should be vehemently opposed, since it only focuses on one gender, and completely ignores the other.
It's so easy to understand when you use logic.
Obviously feminism has nothing to do with logic.
'As well as earning less for doing the same jobs, women still have to climb a much steeper slope than men to reach the top, the CMI figures show.
For while career women account for 57% of the professional workforce, just 40% are department heads and 25% are chief executives, says the CMI.'
The above pretty much explains why this isn't true. Correlation=/= causation.
God dammit, we're on an ex-muslim forum yet I'm having to go through simple logic.
Do you believe discrimination against ethnic minorities is also a lie?
I'm an ethnic minority and yes I do believe it's almost a complete lie and blown WAAAAAAY out of proportion. I've known many people of different race, genders, religion secure internships at top banks in the City at my course. Obviously this doesn't mean that they've got the jobs on lock, but it still takes a lot of effort/commitment to get internships at the top banks. My personal experience and common business sense tell that there is no logical reason for businesses to discriminate against genders/race since they are the ones who ultimately lose out.
Obviously I don't expect there to be any logic/rationale in feminism.
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Wage disparity between the genders is an undeniable fact. Men get paid more than women on average = fact. You can find this out with 10 mins on google if it wasn't already obvious to you.
I just destroyed that argument above. Ta-ta.
Firstly, the study is only conducted at USA universities. Therefore, we cannot extend this to all universities around the world.
Secondly, the wage gap between the two offered salaries is just over 10%. Although it's pretty decent difference it isn't as substantial to suggest that it's solely because of the fact that one application was from a woman and one from a man. There's many different pay gaps within genders.
And there of course needs to be more evidence/research from unbiased researchers, apart from one study, to have strong proof that there is sexism against women in regards to academic research.
[/quote]
. It ties into wage gaps as defined by gender,
Sorry there isn't a wage gap. It's a myth. Ta-ta.
sexual double standards that women are subject to,
Which men are subjected to as well, lest we forget.
the idea of motherhood being stigmatized,
Wut? How can the survival of our species be stigmatised? Strong logic.
the presence of rape culture
Rape is a very serious crime in most parts of the world. I don't get what you're saying here. Rape is never encouraged anywhere in the world, which is what you're implying by saying there is a rape 'culture'.
The defining point here is that men don't have social stigmas attached to simply existing as just that.
Oh really? Well we'll find out later on in this post.
Because I think that men, women and every gender in between shouldn't be defined by negative characteristics by bitter people with nothing better to complain about.
Such as feminists.
Please show me, by any account, some statistical, historical, institutional and/or systemic versions of misandry as examined by scientific examination
OK let's discuss current legislation for family courts in the Western world. Remember, this has more consequences than just 'social norms' since these laws actually affect the standard of living on men and women. These are laws for which people can be persecuted for by the state. No one will punish you for not following 'social norms'.
OK firstly let's start off with child custody:
''meaning that one in three children – around 3.8 million – is living with their father absent from their lives. Just 8% of single parents in Britain are fathers living with their children, according to the Office for National Statistics.''
[source:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/feb/03/divorced-fathers-children-custody-access]
Thank God the legislation has been changed here in the UK, we'll see how this turns out in due time. Unfortunately this is not the case elsewhere in the Western world, where women are continuously given bias in the decision of child custodies.
Also more evidence of bias:
''1. "Judicial child custody decisions as a function of social and emotional deviation of the mother", Ph.D. thesis of Gisele Kehl, Hofstra University, 1983. A survey containing various hypothetical child custody cases was circulated to 162 judges across the US. It was found that when both parents were emotionally, socially and morally fit, the mother received custody l00% of the time. A career woman was not less likely to become the custodian than a traditional mother. It was also found that emotional instability was more detrimental to a litigating mother.
2. "Judges’ decision-making in child custody: An analogue study", Ph.D. thesis of Martin Goldstein, University of Arizona, 1983. In a survey of judges given various hypothetical child-custody cases, a significant bias favoring the mothers was found. Mothers were more likely than fathers to receive sole custody awards by a ratio of 3:2.''
[source:
http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/08094.htm]
Obviously you'll never see feminists campaigning for equal rights in this regards.
Let's now take a look at custodial awards:
''79.6% of custodial mothers receive a support award
29.9% of custodial fathers receive a support award''
[source:
http://deltabravo.net/cms/plugins/content/content.php?content.284]
Obviously on that last source there are a ton of statistics which ALL favour women. I've never seen a feminist even raise a question as to why such a clear show of inequality is going on in family courts.
Hmmm... I wonder....
Hold off on accounts of false rape cries, complaints about anyone who strung anyone else along and broke their heart by not going out with them
Are you trying to justify false rape cries here? Well wouldn't be surprised if you are, it's feminist logic after all..
Stats about wage disparity as attributed to gender discrimination:
"But industry doesn't tell the whole story. Women earned less than men in all 20 industries and 25 occupation groups surveyed by the Census Bureau in 2007 — even in fields in which their numbers are overwhelming. Female secretaries, for instance, earn just 83.4% as much as male ones. And those who pick male-dominated fields earn less than men too: female truck drivers, for instance, earn just 76.5% of the weekly pay of their male counterparts. Perhaps the most compelling — and potentially damning — data of all to suggest that gender has an influence comes from a 2008 study in which University of Chicago sociologist Kristen Schilt and NYU economist Matthew Wiswall examined the wage trajectories of people who underwent a sex change. Their results: even when controlling for factors like education, men who transitioned to women earned, on average, 32% less after the surgery. Women who became men, on the other hand, earned 1.5% more."
Like I said, the gender-gap myth has been destroyed above.
Pls go.
[/quote]
That's not the same as what you initially started the argument about. One minute its pay, and net minute its promotion. I mean who does these so called statistics? We have laws in the UK again gender discrimination, there are actually bodies which investigate this. Sometimes, stastics don't take into consideration skill sets, if a man has more skills at a particular job, then you're going to put a man in that role, your not going to put a woman in that role just because she is a woman, and before you say its because of discrimination, that's (largely absolute bull) since really organizations want to make money and profit so they always want the best person for the job, there not sitting there conspiring against women.
Maybe if folks didn't spend too much time reading outdated shit, they'd actually see that woman's wages are actually rising faster then men's. It is narrowing the gender pay gap. I mean the gender pay gap is less the %10 were splitting hairs here, and this is on fulltime, many things come into play here, stuff like maternity leave, womens issues etc.
In fact in part-time work, women earn more then men in the UK. So the Gender pay gap theory because of sexist mens not paying women enough is really a myth. It's actually that sometimes women are choosing jobs which don't really get them up to their earning potential. Just relying on stastics is not a good way to understand the real issue of discrimination. It's bollocks.
correlation does not imply causation.
This. Absolutely took the words out of my mouth.
OK let me try and break it down for you...
There is a proportional diff, between who work full-time and part-time, more men work-full time compared to women, it is a small percentage I believe (don't have the percentages to hand). However, in part-time work about a similar percentage margin is reversed, i.e. in this case more women work part time compared to men, so because part-time workers (on average) get paid less then full-time this affects the overall pay gender gap but the affect is due to the type of work, as opposed to discrimination, which some pro-feminists argue.
Out of the adult working population, I believe about 45 percent of men work full-time, and about 30 percents women work full-time, about 20 percent women work part-time and about 5 percent men work part-time, these are rough figures so don't quote me on them, however I don't believe they are totally skewed or anything.
Oh, and the 19 percentage you're confused about is, basically the median (you have to be careful about median and means here) hourly pay for both part-time and full-time percentage combined. And the mean for all employees has decreased to 19 percent.
This.
Do you think, if it really was discrimination that it would be equally bad for women across the board not just in full-time work? Shall men start claiming on the part-time work gap between men and women, where stats show women are earning more then men in part-time work? The reality is that there are too many idiots to jump on the white knight bandwagon without actually understanding the data or looking at it. They make the basic fallacy of correlation. Seriously even guys on here talk much ass crap. I think they think pretending to be a champion for women rights will somehow make women drop their panties for them.
And this.
Like I've said before, white knights make my blood boil.
All of these articles concede there is a wage gap.
Also, you guys ought to get your heads together and decide which statistics you're gonna use before you start high-fiving each other.,
Reading comprehension, not even once.
Topic: Some men are part of the problem !