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Theme Changer

 Topic: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.

 (Read 25926 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     OP - December 05, 2012, 08:25 AM

    "The Problem with Criticising Islam"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Ef46hcsDo&feature=g-user

    Much respect to this bloke, who is not only smart, but also charming and funny. I got to meet him on skype yesterday, and I admitted that I leaned more from reading his work/watching his videos than my entire Muslimic upbringing.

    This video is about where to properly learn about Islam, in the least biased way (disregarding the propaganda). He categorises the problems we face while trying to learn about Islam as coming from the following:

    -Anti Muslim bigots: Racists, Christian bigots, Anti-theist anti Muslim bigots, Zionist anti Muslim bigots  (Robert Spencer, Pat Condell, Michael Savage etc)
    -Liberal apologists: Response to anti-Muslim bigots, feel guilty about colonialism/imperialism (Karen Armstrong, Deepak Chopra, George Galloway etc.)
    -Muslims: Lay Muslims (ignorant of Islamic doctrine), Muslim Clerics, Muslim apologists (propaganda and misinformation, professional liars), Islamo-fascists (radical, military Islam).

    So where do we turn for less biased, more factual information?

    -Orientalists
    -Islamicists
    -Islamologists

    And there is a long list of suggested names at 10:52.

     


    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #1 - December 05, 2012, 11:17 AM

    His pretty good, at researching. I think alot of Ex-Muslims have covered most of this over the years, but I think for non-Muslims its a great source for information. And he is largely very accurate, actually I can't think of anything inaccurate he has said about Islam. Well sourced work. He handled Hamza;s ass nicely.

    edit* Deepak Chopra isn't a Muslim his some or an apologetic for Islam, Ive never heard him talk much about Islam. His more of Ayurveda Hindu school of thought. Basically a crackpot. He should just be included in the crackpot pseudo-scientist section.
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #2 - December 05, 2012, 11:31 AM

    He is very good.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #3 - December 05, 2012, 12:10 PM

    I've only recently started watching his videos and they're great; very well-researched and accurate. I'm definitely going to be watching more.
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #4 - December 05, 2012, 12:54 PM

    He handled Hamza;s ass nicely.



    Hamza? *edit* oooh..Hamza Andreas Tzortzis

    I can't wait until his book comes out! I might send a few copies out anonymously.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #5 - December 05, 2012, 02:07 PM

    Klingschor's videos are excellent. Though I feel that Klingschor does quite a bit of political posturing in attempt to differentiate himself from other critics of Islam. I do not really see how he is all that different from those that he lables "Anti-theist anti Muslim bigots".

    Nevertheless, his videos are the second best rational critiques of Islam on youtube (after the CEMB channel itself) so I support him and what he is doing 100%.  yes

    On this video, i think he forgot the most important category of Muslims that get in the way of an accurate criticism of Islam:

    Quranists: Those Muslims that woefully reject the entire established history of Islam as a conspiracy to corrupt the "true" teaching of Muhammad and give new meanings to Arabic words in order to reinterpret morally questionable Quranic verses.
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #6 - December 05, 2012, 03:01 PM

    Tony t I concur with every single iota you wrote.....110%  Afro

    I believe that if loonwatch got a hold of klingschors videos on child marriage and verse of the sword videos, they would definitely consider klingschor a loon.

    what do you think?
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #7 - December 05, 2012, 03:02 PM

    "The Problem with Criticizing Islam"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Ef46hcsDo&feature=g-user
    ......................................

    -Anti Muslim bigots: Racists, Christian bigots, Anti-theist anti Muslim bigots, Zionist anti Muslim bigots  (Robert Spencer, Pat Condell, Michael Savage etc)
    -Liberal apologists: Response to anti-Muslim bigots, feel guilty about colonialism/imperialism (Karen Armstrong, Deepak Chopra, George Galloway etc.)
    -Muslims: Lay Muslims (ignorant of Islamic doctrine), Muslim Clerics, Muslim apologists (propaganda and misinformation, professional liars), Islamo-fascists (radical, military Islam).

    So where do we turn for less biased, more factual information?

    -Orientalists
    -Islamicists
    -Islamologists

    And there is a long list of suggested names at 10:52.


    That is a nice summary  of that CHOR's tube Jila.   But I operate on basic principle  "Nothing and no concept and no book and no post is unquestionable"   There is always something that we could improve upon "However good that may be".  Many of Chor's points  are right in the sense  that there are different types of critics of Islam and , some of them may have political agenda. That is  his main point on so-called "Right wing Critics of Islam". Question is,  do these right wing characters  have rights to criticize Islam or not?  If you give them that fundamental right,  then there is no escape from them except listen to them.  The only thing you can do is call them as Haters and  expose their political agenda if they have one and , expose their  hatred against Muslims. But that may not help.  "It is like you hate  I hate so let us fill Youtube program"  

    Next question is, Is criticizing Islam same as hatred against Muslims? Where are the boundaries  for that?  So my comment I have on that tube is,  I don't think  Klingschor read the works of those that you see at 10.52.,  For e.g. He puts out the name "William Muir ",, the 2nd name in that list.  Depending upon whom you ask, he could be made as "Islamophobe",..... Islam Hater ..... he took advantage of criticizing Islam to get that Governor Position in that undivided Indian subcontinent.  That book from him "Life of Mahomet"   that is a terrific critic of Islam ., If he would have been born in Islam His head would have been hung on  a pole for writing  that book . And I can easily say that if William Muir was alive and is on Tube., Klingschor would have considered him as Islamophobe ..Muslim hater  and put him in to that category of  Patcondells..

    Even that nicest Muslim guy one could ever meet in life and did wonderful contribution to Indian subcontinent "Sir Syed Ahmad Khan "  considered William Muir as "Islamophobe" with ulterior motives  So my criticism of . that Klingchor's  tube   is, He  is a Chor.  Cheesy    And He didn't read the works of those guys whom he listed at 10.56 mts but made up a list of names  whom he thought are  good critics of Islam and you can learn Islam from them.  I don't think so, You can neither take their works(the guys you see in that list)on their face value nor you can learn Islam, Islamic history, Islamic theology from them.

    So Jila, can you question me  and write something against what I said on that tube?  

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #8 - December 05, 2012, 03:15 PM

    Interesting post yeezevee!  dance

    I want to know If you (yeezevee)  believe that William muir is an islamophobe?
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #9 - December 05, 2012, 03:27 PM

    Interesting post yeezevee!  dance

    I want to know If you (yeezevee)  believe that William muir is an islamophobe?

    hello K-Man., I actually wrote a long response to your post/comment to Tony t .. The funny thing is Computer crashed  Huh? and i don't want type all that again  Cheesy  .,

    So in short,  to answer your question I did consider him as " islamophobe" until 8 years back.  And in his works He does cross boundaries.. Off course those  times were different., If bill muir  is alive now, He could have gone either way.  He could have become an Apologist for Islam  or he could have become a Islamophobe.   I really don't care about people having "FAITH PHOBIAS"  what I don't like Like is  People having "peoplephobia"  

    So As Now I think, People must have right to criticize any faith and every faith, So even If I consider him as "Islamophobe"  I don't think I will have problem with his works and his words..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #10 - December 05, 2012, 03:33 PM

    Hi Yeez

    Well I think your first point about freedom of speech is redundant. You've brought it up before and I haven't seen anyone disagree. If people want to wear their undies on their heads and dance in public, do so, by all means. Just don't expect to be taken seriously. Anyway that's that.

    Regarding the names listed: since watching the video, I have had the time to look up only one.
     But even if he is an islamophobe, so what? I would like to answer that part by using this quote by Tonyt
    Quote
    I do not really see how he is all that different from those that he lables "Anti-theist anti Muslim bigots".


    Pat Condell (for example) is a dick, and even though I don't disagree with some of what he says about Islam, his work is useless to me. The difference is that I don't feel threatened or mocked, as a learning, seeking human being, by Klingschor. He is approachable to say the least, but more important is his level of research. If Klingschor was a dick, at least his research is useful. As I go through some of the names in the video, I will decide whose research is useful for me.

    A funny story by the way: I have had my name for 22 years of my life. I have never thought about its origins or anything. After speaking to Klingschor, I learned about my own name: its meaning, and how to properly spell it, and how "hur" the Arabic word for paradise's virgins is so close to the word "whore" Cheesy

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #11 - December 05, 2012, 03:44 PM

    hello K-Man., I actually wrote a long response to your post/comment to Tony t .. The funny thing is Computer crashed  Huh? and i don't want type all that again  Cheesy  .,

    So in short,  to answer your question I did consider him as " islamophobe" until 8 years back.  And in his works He does cross boundaries.. Off course those  times were different., If bill muir  is alive now, He could have gone either way.  He could have become an Apologist for Islam  or he could have become a Islamophobe.   I really don't care about people having "FAITH PHOBIAS"  what I don't like Like is  People having "peoplephobia"  

    So As Now I think, People must have right to criticize any faith and every faith, So even If I consider him as "Islamophobe"  I don't think I will have problem with his works and his words..


    Thanks for the answer yeezevee.... I actually understand what you are saying.  Huh?
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #12 - December 05, 2012, 03:47 PM

    ............... I learned about my own name: its meaning, and how to properly spell it, and how "hur" the Arabic word for paradise's virgins is so close to the word "whore" Cheesy

    So you are telling me your name is  "Huriyyah"   Cheesy

    and k-man tells me  
    Quote
    k-man:  Thanks for the answer yeezevee.... I actually  DO NOT understand what you are saying.  Huh?

    HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING WHAT I SAID..    Cheesy Cheesy

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #13 - December 05, 2012, 03:52 PM

    Quote
    So you are telling me your name is  "Huriyyah"

     No, but why is that funny? Cry it's close Cheesy

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #14 - December 05, 2012, 04:08 PM

    No, but why is that funny? Cry it's close Cheesy

     Oops.. No..No..  i didn't mean to insult you by highlighting that word  Jila ..

    when I was a rascal.. I  used to make fun of people with that name attached to them and i remembered an incident around that..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #15 - December 05, 2012, 04:22 PM

    Yeeze....you mean to say ,you are STILL a rascal.
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #16 - December 05, 2012, 04:23 PM

    Loved it, was going to post it before....

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #17 - December 05, 2012, 04:38 PM

    Yeeze....you mean to say ,you are STILL a rascal.

      lol...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmS8JwyRUdk


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #18 - December 06, 2012, 02:56 AM

    Good Video !!

    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #19 - December 06, 2012, 03:08 AM

     Cheesy Cheesy Love it. I bet there were some very embarrassed people at that hospital.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #20 - December 06, 2012, 06:44 AM

    Hahaha. How could've she fallen for it? The accents were terrible.  Cheesy
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #21 - December 06, 2012, 06:48 AM

    Be funny if Liz did ring up now.

    "Hello, I'd like to speak to my granddaughter, Kate."

    "Fuck off. I'm not falling for that one again."

     Cheesy

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #22 - December 06, 2012, 08:39 AM

    I'm sick of hearing about Willz and Kate, absolutely sick of it, I don't give a fuck that she's having morning sickness, how is this front page news?

    I loved those DJs though.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #23 - December 06, 2012, 08:40 AM

    The royals are entertainers these days. If they keep some people happy, I don't give a rat's. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #24 - December 06, 2012, 08:42 AM

    Agreed, but I wish the headlines were reserved for OK magazine and Hello, and not the Times or the Guardian.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #25 - December 06, 2012, 10:28 AM

    His pretty good, at researching. I think alot of Ex-Muslims have covered most of this over the years, but I think for non-Muslims its a great source for information. And he is largely very accurate, actually I can't think of anything inaccurate he has said about Islam. Well sourced work. He handled Hamza;s ass nicely.

    edit* Deepak Chopra isn't a Muslim his some or an apologetic for Islam, Ive never heard him talk much about Islam. His more of Ayurveda Hindu school of thought. Basically a crackpot. He should just be included in the crackpot pseudo-scientist section.


    I double this.

  • Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #26 - December 09, 2012, 01:05 PM

    So my criticism of . that Klingchor's  tube   is, He  is a Chor.  Cheesy    And He didn't read the works of those guys whom he listed at 10.56 mts but made up a list of names  whom he thought are  good critics of Islam and you can learn Islam from them.  I don't think so, You can neither take their works(the guys you see in that list)on their face value nor you can learn Islam, Islamic history, Islamic theology from them.


    I have in fact read works of the overwhelming majority of the men and women in that list - there are only 8 of them whose works I haven't read, although those 8 individuals are cited in the works of the others.

    You certainly can "learn Islam from them" - the majority of my knowledge concerning "Islam, Islamic history, Islamic theology" etc came from the works of these great men and women. Brill's Encyclopaedia of Islam is now my go-to source for all matters concerning Islam, and the information is always accurate, well-sourced and insightful.

    As for Muir...

    I don't think  Klingschor read the works of those that you see at 10.52.,  For e.g. He puts out the name "William Muir ",, the 2nd name in that list.  Depending upon whom you ask, he could be made as "Islamophobe",..... Islam Hater ..... he took advantage of criticizing Islam to get that Governor Position in that undivided Indian subcontinent.


    Once again, wrong. I have read Muir's biography of Muhammad and--although tainted by Christian bigotry, certainly--his work was always based upon Islamic sources and marks as a nascent attempt at critical Islamic Studies. As I noted in a recent blog-post [http://tinyurl.com/bk33cue], the categories I listed in my video aren't cast-iron - Muir straddles the line between Islamologist and Christian anti-Muslim bigot.
  • Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #27 - December 09, 2012, 01:12 PM

    I have in fact read works of the overwhelming majority of the men and women in that list - there are only 8 of them whose works I haven't read, although those 8 individuals are cited in the works of the others.

    You certainly can "learn Islam from them" - the majority of my knowledge concerning "Islam, Islamic history, Islamic theology" etc came from the works of these great men and women. Brill's Encyclopaedia of Islam is now my go-to source for all matters concerning Islam, and the information is always accurate, well-sourced and insightful.

    As for Muir...

    Once again, wrong. I have read Muir's biography of Muhammad and--although tainted by Christian bigotry, certainly--his work was always based upon Islamic sources and marks as a nascent attempt at critical Islamic Studies. As I noted in a recent blog-post [http://tinyurl.com/bk33cue], the categories I listed in my video aren't cast-iron - Muir straddles the line between Islamologist and Christian anti-Muslim bigot.

    well if you say that then I have to agree with  that and you must have read the books from those guys. Now  I have to l look at their works bit more carefully ( I do have some of their books). But you say "William Muir's biography of Muhammad  is  tainted by Christian bigotry" ., then  don't you think that  you should put him in to the bigot's list .. not in to other group ??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #28 - December 09, 2012, 01:14 PM

    He's explained why Yeezeevee - and his appraisal has integrity




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Appreciating Klingschor's Video.
     Reply #29 - December 09, 2012, 01:15 PM

    Deepak Chopra isn't a Muslim his some or an apologetic for Islam, Ive never heard him talk much about Islam.


    He wrote a crappy biography of Muhammad. As Deepak says in a Q&A [http://tinyurl.com/arsp4al], "I think the purity of Muhammad’s motive is apparent in his teachings. He seems to have been a simple soul who reluctantly answered the spiritual calling to convey the message he was given to others."

    Perhaps now my reason for Chopra's inclusion is more evident  Wink
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