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Theme Changer

 Topic: When Pakistanis look within

 (Read 5913 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • When Pakistanis look within
     OP - October 15, 2012, 05:22 PM

    I wanted to not keep posting in the Malala Yousafzai thread as this incident seems to have sparked a tiny flame of self-reflection of the likes that I haven't seen before from Pakistanis living IN Pakistan. I hope that this tiny flame takes off and burns away the masks of religious dogma and cleanses that country of the religious and cultural supremacism being an "islamic state" has made it delude itself into, so that the people there can start to really take charge of their country and themselves.

    So here, I'd like to share articles, editorials and other media pieces on this reflexivity in Pakistan. Feel free to share more that you may come across too.

    To start off with, here's an excerpt of one article I'd posted in the thread for Malala:

    Quote
    The aftermath of the attack saw the usual clichés, one of which is, “We are all Malala”. No, we are not. Had all of us or even most of us been Malala, these medieval thugs could not have attacked her. Had enough of us been Malala, nobody would have dared to make excuses for this murderous assault. By all means, feel terrible about us not being Malala but also feel worse and angry that the one who was Malala is now fighting for her life because of our failure to protect her. Also, assume the liberty of shaming with contempt and rage anyone who tries to make an excuse for this.

    SOURCE



    (edited to fix link)

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #1 - October 15, 2012, 05:26 PM

    Here's another piece written by a Pakistani editor/writer:


    Don’t blame the Taliban
    By: Kunwar Khuldune Shahid

    Let’s call a spade a spade instead

    The Malala incident is déjà vu times million. You have religious ‘extremists’ manifesting brutality; the ‘educated’ class calls the act heinous, the ‘intellectuals’ label the offenders as beasts, the ‘liberals’ protest against the ‘cowardly act’ and while everyone is condemning the act, they remain shushed about the root cause of it all: the ideology. Throughout the past every single person who has denounced the Taliban has acted as an apologetic, justifying the religious ideology and claiming how those ‘uneducated morons’ have ‘unfortunately’ misinterpreted the teachings of peace and tranquility – no, they haven’t, ‘unfortunately’.

    It is so painfully amusing to note how the ‘moderates’ and armchair revolutionaries, would sit there with a glass of vine in their hands, uninhibitedly hanging out with the opposite sex, not having offered a prayer or fasted for ages, claiming how the Taliban – who lead their lives strictly according to the Shariah – are infesting their religion of harmony. The poor chaps are only doing what their scriptures – the ones that the pseudo intellectuals extol, or don’t have the cojones to criticize – tell them to do. When you are being taught, through the scriptures that are universally recognized by the followers as ‘authentic’, that all the non-believers or threats to the grandeur of your ideology should be killed, you will kill them, where is the misinterpretation here?

    Finding slaves or slave girls, repulsive; physically assaulting women, disgusting; cutting off hands for theft, inhuman; stoning people to death, beastly and then venerating the ideology that permits this at the same time is hypocrisy of the very highest order. You sit there, criticize and mock the Taliban that follow your religion in its true form while you live in oblivion with your extremely palatable, but simultaneously blatantly fallacious, brand of religion and then claim that the Taliban are misinterpreting and misapprehending your ideology? Oh, the irony.

    Let’s stop carving out quasi religions, or defending ideologies that we’ve all grown up blindly following as the truth. Let’s call a spade a spade instead and realize that at the end of the day as much as you might have a cardiac arrest admitting it, the root cause of religious extremism is: religion – especially in its raw crude form, which again is the only ‘authentic’ form.

    Every single religion has a violent streak. Every single one of them orders violence and killing in one form or the other for the ‘non-believers’. One can quote verses from every holy scripture depicting loathe and despise for anyone who doesn’t believe in the said scripture and its propagator. Sure, those scriptures would have the occasional fit of peace as well, but that only springs into the open when it is recognized as the only supreme authority. Every religion is a ‘religion of peace’ as long as it formulates the status quo; there is no concept of ideological symbiosis in any religion. When a tyrannical regime or dictator calls for peace with the condition that they would reign supreme we label them as oppressors, but when this is done in the name of religion we tout it as maneuvers of ‘harmony’.

    The Taliban have defended the attack on Malala Yousafzai through scriptures and historic precedents. You can clamor all you want about how there is a lack of understanding on the part of the Taliban, but how on earth can you refute clear messages of violence and historical evidence – scribed by historians of your faith – depicting brutality on the part of some of the most illustrious people in the history of the religion? It is easy to launch vitriol against the Taliban for attacking a 14-year-old girl, but it is also equally hypocritical and pathetic when you eulogize people from your history who did the same in the past, who massacred masses, destroyed lands, pulverized places of worship, raped women, just because they ostensibly did it in the name of your religion. Don’t blame the Taliban for following their lead, don’t blame the Taliban for using violence as a means to cement religious superiority – something that has been done for centuries – don’t blame the Taliban for the fact that you don’t have the guts to call a spade a spade even though it has been spanking your backside for centuries now.

    The fact that groups like Tehreek-e-Taliban-Pakistan and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi exist is because Islam is still traversing its Dark Ages while other religions have gone through Reformation, resulting in a collective Renaissance – and that too half a millennium ago. None of the religion in its crude form can work in this day and age, and instead of taking the easy route and scorning at those that follow religious teachings in its original form, the more logical approach would be to accept the truth.

    If you’re acknowledging Islam as the supreme authority, you have no grounds for hauling coals over Zia-ul-Haq for implementing laws from the Shariah, you have no grounds for attacking Mumtaz Qadri or feeling sorry for Salmaan Taseer who clearly spoke against the blasphemy law, you have no grounds for lauding Dr Abdul Salaam as a national asset who belonged to a sect that clearly defies Islamic teachings, and yes, you have no grounds for blaming the Taliban.

    It’s time our ‘thinkers’ stopped taking the easy way out and finally picked a side. You either follow a religion in its true form or you’re irreligious. The Taliban know which side they are on. Do you?


    The writer is Editor Business/City (Karachi), Pakistan Today. He tweets @khuldune and can be contacted at khulduneshahid@gmail.com


    SOURCE

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #2 - October 15, 2012, 05:38 PM

    We are not Malala, we may be the Taliban
    October 15, 2012
    by Jahanzaib Haque

    In order for terrorists to flourish, they need more than guns, funding and a geographical location to operate in – they also need an ideological space to occupy and work inside.

    That is how they persist; that is how they can win.

    This fact is one which the majority of Pakistanis have yet to come to terms with: the fact that we ourselves are often individually culpable and involved in the war being waged against the terrorists in our country. Tragically, we are often knowingly or unknowingly on the wrong side of the ideological front.

    Nowhere has this been better illustrated than in the current tragedy that is the attack on 14-year-old Malala Yousufzai.

    Within hours of the attack, a select group of Pakistanis started creating the ideological space that allows terrorists the upper hand. It would be hard to imagine how a counter narrative could be built around the gunning down of a child, but there it was, coming from our politically charged youth, our parties, our ultra-nationalists and religio-political parties, our extremist/banned organisations and yes, our relatives, peers and friends.

    I received this SMS message early yesterday morning from a co-worker:

    Zara Sochae! [think!]
    MALALA Ko Karachi My Target Kiya Jata; [If Malala was targeted in Karachi]
    Ya Hazaron Ki Tarah Isay Bhi Drone Nishana Banata Tou: [or killed like thousands in drone attacks]
    1-Na To Wo Qoum Ki Byti Kehlati [nor would she be called nation's daughter]
    2-Na Hi yeh Matam [nor this mourning]
    3-Na Obama Air Ambulance Offer Karta [nor an Air Ambulance from Obama]
    4-Na UNO Ko ko Takleef Hoti. [Nor UNO being hurt]
    5-Na tamam Madaris/ulema ka 90 pur data collect hota [Nor the collection of data of madrassas and ulema at Nine Zero]
    Aaj Bhi North Wazirastan My Drone Attack My 16 Afrad Shaheed Ho Chuky Hain: [Today also 16 people have died in drone attacks]
    1-Na To Qoam Ny DUA Ki? [Did the nation pray?]
    2-Na Kiyani Giya Na Kisi kou koi ghum? [Neither did Kayani go, nor did anyone express sorrow?]
    3-Na Kisi Ko CMH Muntaqil kiya Geya? [Nor was anyone admitted to CMH?]
    4-Qoam Ki Aik Aur Byti  AAFIA K Liye Kisi Ny Aaj Tak Yom-e-Duaa Kiyon Nahi Manai? [Why has there never been a day of prayer for Dr Aafia Siddiqui?]
    5-Aur Kiyon Na AAFIA K Liye “Azad Media” Ny Aasman Sar Par Uthaya [Why no hue and cry for Aafia in our idependent media?]
    6-Aur Laal Masjid ki betiyan? [What about the Laal Masjid daughters?]
    Anjuman-e-Ghulamane America Ke Khilaf Awaz Utah Kur Jiyo [Speak out against the US]

    You can only imagine how far this SMS campaign has reached if a ‘liberal extremist’ such as myself has managed to get it sent over to him.

    MORE AT SOURCE

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #3 - October 15, 2012, 05:48 PM

    Here's another piece written by a Pakistani editor/writer:


    Don’t blame the Taliban
    By: Kunwar Khuldune Shahid

    Let’s call a spade a spade instead

    ..........................

    SOURCE

    that is indeed  right.. Kunwar calls a spade "a spade".. And Kunwar writes that from Karachi..  That article is as  Refreshing as this allat..  lol...,  

      the nice thing is to read the responses under that blog..

    Quote
    Saif Haider :

    There is no doubt that the Abrahamic religions are the most violent, but to say that any religion is devoid of violence is not only factually incorrect but hypocritical as well. Every religion is man made and like the writer says in one form or the other they all preach violence, even if they say that it is in "self defence".

    Violence in Hinduism: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_violence.a...

    Violence in Sikhism: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Does_Sikhism_P...

    Violence in Budhism: http://atheism.about.com/b/2010/01/25/religion-vi... http://www.religiondispatches.org/books/2158/monk...

    Violence in Jainism; http://jainhistory.tripod.com/dare.html

    This is a revolutionary article that puts religion in its right place... as the biggest cause of evil and violence throughout the history of the world.


    Quote
    Maham Khan :

    Wow! Oh this is so brilliant and brave. The hate messages are understandable. But I'm left speechless. This is what our country needs to know and accept. Take a bow sir!


    Hmm.. I think there are people there who are also in CEMB..lol..



    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #4 - October 15, 2012, 05:57 PM

    that is indeed  right.. Kunwar calls a spade "a spade".. And Kunwar writes that from Karachi..  That article is as  Refreshing as this allat..  lol..., 


    My thoughts exactly Grin

    the nice thing is to read the responses under that blog..

    Hmm.. I think there are people there who are also in CEMB..lol..


    Yes the comments on that article are as refreshing to read as the article itself! This is quite a strange phenomenon on the Internet.



    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #5 - October 15, 2012, 06:06 PM

    Good posts, Allat! Thanks for the share.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #6 - October 15, 2012, 06:42 PM

    I really liked that article by Kunwar Kuldune Shahid. Although I strongly disagree with his comment where he said "Every single one of them (religions) orders violence and killing in one form or the other for the ‘non-believers’". Someone in the comments section there had posted links to defend the stance that all religions but reading through the links for Jainism and Sikhism its blatently obvious this isnt true at all.

    Anyway I left the following comment there:

    I know a bit about Sikhism and the link you provided does NOT prove that the Sikh religion promotes violence. The link you provided pretty much proves that the only violence Sikhs are allowed to do is in self defense against an aggressor. In other words if your life is in danger then defend yourself and if someone who is weaker is in danger then defend them too. This is not preaching violence this is just common sense and self defense.

    Even the link your provided for Jainism doesnt support your stance.

    There is a HUGE difference in the violence of an aggressor and the violence one has to do in self defense against an aggressor. Im surprised you cant even recognize this difference. If you were being attacked would you not fight back to save your own life??

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #7 - October 15, 2012, 06:51 PM

    I agree with you, Pepe. But here's the thing: Every single Muslim who either commits violence in the name of Islam or supports such violence believes strongly that they are doing so in defence, not in offence. Yes, it's true. Ask around, look around, every one of them will give you some sort of justification as to how they (muslims) are the victims and the violence they commit and/or quietly support is always done in defence against those who are attacking them. Bring up Quranic verses promoting violence and hadiths demonstrating Mohammed's and his buddies' violence, and this is the same thing you will hear: it was only done in self-defence or it's only allowable when done to defend one's self/loved ones/community etc.

    Basically using the self-defence argument doesn't work on Muslims because they make the same exact claim (however questionable their justifications may be; these are people who, as discussed in that other thread, are considering blasphemy or criticism or mocking of Mo or Islam as terrorism; to them they are CONSTANTLY under attack and that is how they justify the violence glorified in Islamic scriptures).

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #8 - October 15, 2012, 07:07 PM

    Allat I think for me its because I am punjabi and that many of my family and friends are Sikh that I can speak on the Sikh religion with some knowledge. I know that Sikhism doesnt force conversions. Their whole history is about being oppressed by mughal rulers and the fighting is only in real self defence where they were being physically attacked and tortured by the muslim rulers.

    As for Sikhs actions through history Im sure there has been a shit load of violence and attrocities done by them too but you cant really find sources for it in their religious scripture. Anyone can feel free to prove me wrong but this is my understanding from what I know and have ready in the past.

    Allat Ive heard muslims promote violence not just in self defence but for the "glory of Islam" in my years as a muslim. I remember being at one dinner where one of the uncles was talking and praising how muslim armies would give people an ultimatum of either becoming muslim or fighting a war with them. All with a fuckin smile on his face as if this was a good thing. Islamic history is about making the tribes submit and not always about them becoming believers. Tribes would submit to Islam but the belief had to be indoctrinated into them in many cases. Is there not a hadith where the Propeht says to a group of people that they have just submitted and not yet become believers? Cant remember now how it goes exactly.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #9 - October 15, 2012, 07:15 PM

    Yes religious and cultural supremacism ("we are better than everyone else and everyone else must come to accept this as fact by any means necessary") is at the root of it. But my point was that in today's world, most Muslims are deluded into thinking that Islamically justified violence == self-defence. It's a circular argument and thus it is stupid. But to get to its root, we have to disrupt the underlying feeling of supremacy that Muslims feel they have because they are followers of the "role model for all time". There are many ways to shake them out of that delusion, by pointing out the violence in the quran and hadiths and in muslim imperialist history and in today's practices. Many muslims will use e.g. Israel's aggression towards Palestine as the justification for anything any Muslim does anywhere, as though any one slighting any one in the "ummah" means someone else halfway around the planet has the right to act like a sociopath.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #10 - October 15, 2012, 07:52 PM

    I agree with you, Pepe. But here's the thing: Every single Muslim who either commits violence in the name of Islam or supports such violence believes strongly that they are doing so in defence, not in offence. Yes, it's true. Ask around, look around, every one of them will give you some sort of justification as to how they (muslims) are the victims and the violence they commit and/or quietly support is always done in defence against those who are attacking them. Bring up Quranic verses promoting violence and hadiths demonstrating Mohammed's and his buddies' violence, and this is the same thing you will hear: it was only done in self-defence or it's only allowable when done to defend one's self/loved ones/community etc.


    That is very serious problem in educating people with Islamic mindset allat.. The arguments  from them always  are "Prophet of Islam and his followers were persecuted by Arab pagans.. basically his own uncle/aunt and his other relatives + later Juice and Christian and what not. " and this was all in that initial Meccan  period of Islam.  My problem with that is there is absolutely  NO EVIDENCE  for it.. But that nonsense is written and written and written By Muslim folks to defend violence against other.. some times even among Muslims.. such is the case in the numerous killings Muslims by other Muslims for the sake of political power,..in all these links

    Prophet Muhammad: Persecution in Makkah
    Muhammad’s Biography (part 4 of 12): Persecution in Mecca
    Persecution of the Muslims.
    Prophet Muhammad and his followers were persecuted/tortured

    even well educated Muslims use same argument  and any guy who happened to be born as Muslim writes/says anything against  that part of Islamic history .. he will immediately  becomes apostate.. and has to live miserable life unless he runs away from his so-called near & dear..  With  few hadith  Muslims rehash same story in    loads and loads of book /write stories/ create websites on this myth   which brian washes already low esteemed Muslim kids that Prophet was persecuted by the Meccans for preaching Islam, and this led Prophet to leave Mecca and Move to Yathrib (Medina).,    I have discussed this subject extensively in FFI  and I guess CEMB also needs discussion on that Islamic history

    Anyways going back to    Kunwar   Shahid  and his article on " Calling spade as spade" ., here is another one from him

    Quote
      Let’s grow up_ Kunwar   Shahid

    ...The faithful believe in the supremacy of their holy scriptures, before they actually go through them; they believe in the ‘unquestionable’ superiority of every single word that their faith preaches before they utter their first words as infants – they are ‘completely enlightened’ about their parent’s god and their family’s religion, at an age when they aren’t enlightened enough to control the saliva dripping out of their mouth.....

    ....And just like those kindergarten kids, most of the contestants in religious scuffles barely know anything about other religions. The only knowledge they have about their own religion is obviously prejudiced because their history was scribed by followers of their own religion, conveniently concealing the appalling acts and glorifying everything that they did left, right and center. Similarly, like the toddlers grew up extolling everything their father was and did, until they reached an age where they could form a subjective opinion about him, the ‘religious’ brigade spend their early years blindly venerating their own faith – except that the growing up bit never comes for them....

    Quote
    ...........While we were self-destructing, we regularly chanted anti-American slogans, with our global immaturity and naivety preventing us from realizing that the US or their government has no reason to apologize for the sacrilegious YouTube video. Just because a nut-head misuses the “freedom of speech” clause in the US constitution, does not mean that the video was ‘state funded’ or had anything to do with the US whatsoever. By that logic, we should first of all issue a formal apology to the Vatican for the churches that we burnt in the name of love in Mardan and Karachi. I mean who are we to launch vitriolic criticism against the US constitution, do we not realize that we live in a country whose constitution declares that denigration of the “glory of Islam” is blasphemous, while burning churches is not?.............


     
    Quote
    And then our “free-thinking” Muslims showcased their immaturity by questioning the West’s double standards with regards to freedom of speech when a pregnant nun ice cream advertisement was banned in the UK recently. I am sure most of us would know that the UK and the US are two different countries. The “freedom of speech” clause in the American constitution that allows criticism of religious beliefs is not present in the British common law – UK does not have a separate constitution or Bill of Rights – and therefore, even anti-Islamic sentiments would be (and are) banned in the British advertisements. Similarly the argument used by a lot of Muslim leaders – most notably Muhammad Morsi, the Egyptian president –about Holocaust denial being illegal in the West – well it’s not in the US. In Germany, for obvious reasons, it is illegal, but the Germans again do not allow religious insults as well.

    Western countries have consistent constitutions. Even if they have clauses that ban certain things that affect certain communities a little more than others, it’s still the same rule for everyone – it’s not like countries like the US have a different set of rules for minorities, altogether. It’s not like Saudi Arabia banning minorities from constructing their places of worship, or not even allowing non-Muslims’ entry in the two Holy cities. It’s not like Pakistan, declaring sentiments against Islam blasphemous, while openly spreading bile against Hinduism, Christianity and Judaism in its course books.


    Do we honestly believe that the West needs to conspire against the Muslims at all? If they really want to destroy us, all they need to do is post something ridiculously insulting on the web and we shall dutifully self-capitulate. They don’t even need nuclear arsenal to destroy Islamic counties, all they need to do is dub a South Park superhero episode in Arabic and watch the Muslim countries burn –quite literally – with rage.


    well that is form his other article in the same news paper.. Off course that news paper is PPP/MQM mouth piece  

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #11 - October 15, 2012, 08:58 PM

    I posted the Kunwar Kuldune Shahid story on my Facebook wall and the apologists came out. Have a lookie: www.facebook.com/fiveriversstudio

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #12 - October 15, 2012, 09:19 PM

    She's at the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Birmingham now which has one of the best head trauma centres in the world - as well as a great childrens hospital in the city. No better place in the world for her to recover. Feel really happy that she is here in England.

    Birmingham also has a lot of Salafi / Taliban apologists and extremists. She's not in danger, for a start the ward she is on is going to have a lot of security. I just think its ironic and sad that she comes to a place half a world away that contains not a few fanatics itself.

    Get well soon, kid.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #13 - October 15, 2012, 09:20 PM

    Here's another piece written by a Pakistani editor/writer:


    Don’t blame the Taliban
    By: Kunwar Khuldune Shahid

    Let’s call a spade a spade instead



    Wow. That guy has guts. Hope he stays safe.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #14 - October 15, 2012, 09:33 PM

    Yeah I was thinking that a lot of people are going to want to kill him.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #15 - October 15, 2012, 09:50 PM

    I agree with you, Pepe. But here's the thing: Every single Muslim who either commits violence in the name of Islam or supports such violence believes strongly that they are doing so in defence, not in offence. Yes, it's true. Ask around, look around, every one of them will give you some sort of justification as to how they (muslims) are the victims and the violence they commit and/or quietly support is always done in defence against those who are attacking them. Bring up Quranic verses promoting violence and hadiths demonstrating Mohammed's and his buddies' violence, and this is the same thing you will hear: it was only done in self-defence or it's only allowable when done to defend one's self/loved ones/community etc.

    Basically using the self-defence argument doesn't work on Muslims because they make the same exact claim (however questionable their justifications may be; these are people who, as discussed in that other thread, are considering blasphemy or criticism or mocking of Mo or Islam as terrorism; to them they are CONSTANTLY under attack and that is how they justify the violence glorified in Islamic scriptures).


    That is because the scripture has a very elastic and generous space for saying when violence is self defence - by saying anything that causes 'fitnah' can be construed as an attack on Muslims. Which gives a lot of leeway. Whatever you want to define as causing chaos or subversion of Islam is an attack on Islam. And that is such a wide thing, it basically means anything you want it to.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #16 - October 15, 2012, 09:54 PM

    But to get to its root, we have to disrupt the underlying feeling of supremacy that Muslims feel they have because they are followers of the "role model for all time".


    allat, you have gotten to the heart of the matter here. You really have.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #17 - October 16, 2012, 12:55 AM

    I posted the Kunwar Kuldune Shahid story on my Facebook wall and the apologists came out. Have a lookie: www.facebook.com/fiveriversstudio


    i seriously felt my heart rate go up reading that one guys posts!.. you handled it quite well  yes spot on on most of it..
    I like asma's , angad's and spencers posts  yes .. i'd unfriend the rest lol 

    but it's extremely hard for any of the muslims that are responding on your page to even suggest islam isn't perfect, so the actions of the taliban that are obviously murder, savage, and criminal have to be seen as seperate from islam, not inspired or connected to it in any way.. it is a defense, and i don't blame them.. i wouldn't want to be associated with the taliban and i wouldn't want my way of life (my religion) to be the inspiration for the actions of the taliban..  
    allat highlighted this part and i did the same.. i found it spot on ""Finding slaves or slave girls, repulsive; physically assaulting women, disgusting; cutting off hands for theft, inhuman; stoning people to death, beastly and then venerating the ideology that permits this at the same time is hypocrisy of the very highest order. You sit there, criticize and mock the Taliban that follow your religion in its true form while you live in oblivion with your extremely palatable, but simultaneously blatantly fallacious, brand of religion and then claim that the Taliban are misinterpreting and misapprehending your ideology? Oh, the irony.""
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #18 - October 16, 2012, 01:14 AM

     sad oh poor islam.. hijacked by the taliban..
    as if the world has nothing better to do than to conspire against islam
    i'm so tired of that.. i really really am..

    i totally agree with you allat, about the feeling of supremacy muslims have.. i think it's amplified with arab muslims..  .. there's this victimhood attitude that follows,..it gets draining, there's only so much one can say , but the other person has be willing to get off their pedestal first..
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #19 - October 16, 2012, 05:48 AM

    This guy is amazingly brave.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #20 - October 16, 2012, 05:51 AM

    I'm sure he's getting a ton of hate mail and death threats. I think it would be great if a bunch of us wrote to him to thank him for his courage and also to let him know about the CEMB forum. His email address is attached to the article above: khulduneshahid@gmail.com

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #21 - October 16, 2012, 06:13 AM

    Yes, but I wouldn't publicly connect anything he says to this site by posting obvious responses on his Facebook or anywhere else. That is likely to make his situation more difficult than it is already. Private communication, fine. He'd probably appreciate some support.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #22 - October 16, 2012, 06:14 AM

    Yeah probably best to be safe than sorry. I've edited my post.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #23 - October 16, 2012, 06:25 AM

    Oh I'm sure he's being quoted all over the net so I wouldn't worry about that. I just meant people rocking up publicly and touting this place on his FB, or in the comments for his original article. Bound to cause a shitfight, I'd have thought.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #24 - October 16, 2012, 06:27 AM

    Yeah I just didn't want to link to his personal facebook page, even if parts of it are publicly available. It may just be that he hasn't tweaked his privacy settings there. I don't want to presume. I've written to him privately already. I really hope others do the same. Even just a short quick not to say something supportive. Voices like his need to be encouraged in Pakistan and beyond.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #25 - October 16, 2012, 06:34 AM

    Defo. He's probably wondering whether he's brave or stupid right now.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #26 - October 16, 2012, 10:28 AM


    Apparently the police have arrested some people at the hospital in Birmingham where Malala is staying who were claiming to be her relatives.

    Seriously, they may just be people trying to see her for whatever reason, but its creepy. Birmingham does have a taliban-sympathetic constituency.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #27 - October 16, 2012, 01:09 PM

    On that Muslim Rogues trying to murder that 14 year old kid Malala Yousafzai., Our Ahmadiyya good friend   dr. Dr. Faheem Younus  from US of A writes in that huffingtonpost.com ..let us read bit., it is related to Islam and  Malala Yousafzai..

    Quote
    Malala Yousafzai: Does Islam Even Give You a Right to Education?


    Someone is missing from this picture. Because just when I was wondering if extremists could do anymore damage to Islam's image, they committed yet another despicable act. As if flogging the adulterers, executing the civilians, and selling the women were not enough, on Oct. 8, the Taliban attempted to assassinate a 14-year-old girl, Malala Yousafzai. She was coming home from school in the battle-scarred valley of Swat, Pakistan, when Taliban shot her in the head and neck for her public advocacy for education. She is in critical condition.  It's so heartening to see most media outlets applauding Malala's courage. Yet, some commentators are using this cowardly act to attack my faith by casually suggesting: "Well, Islam does not give women the right to seek secular education."


    Excuse me? Why should we let a bunch of uneducated cowards and thugs be the press secretaries of Islam when the faith, much like Western secular values, is an illustrious enabler of women education? Please. Understand that we have a shared enemy here.

    Quote
    "Education is a fundamental right of women," Leila Zerrougui, the U.N. special representative for children in armed conflict, said. But 1,400 years ago, someone stated, "Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim man and woman." Islam, therefore, presents education as a duty, not a mere right, for all.

    "Give a girl an education and introduce her properly into the world," said novelist Jane Austen. But 1,400 years ago, someone went a step further: "If a daughter is born to a person and he brings her up, gives her a good education and trains her in the arts of life, I shall myself stand between him and hell-fire."

    The word "rabbi" means a teacher. Going by this definition, Islam gave women the rabbinical status centuries before any other faith. The first female rabbi, Regina Jonas, was ordained on Dec. 25, 1935 in Germany; an atypical practice, which even today is limited to the non-Orthodox sects of Judaism. But 1,400 years ago someone elevated, Ayesha, the daughter of the Prophet's companion, to the status of a teacher and jurist.

    Where the first Western University in Bologna, Italy, spontaneously emerged due to the efforts of male foreign students groups in 1088 A.D., it was the singular effort of a Muslim woman, Fatima-al-Fihri in 859 A.D., that helped found the University of Karueein in Fez, Morocco. According to the Guinness Book of World Records, the University of Karueein is the oldest existing and continually operating university in the world.


    ........................................

    So here is my message to Malala: You are not alone. Millions of voices, including Americans, are with you. In this war of love and passion against hate and aggression, the Taliban will never win. That someone will win. That someone who enshrined the right of a girl's education in the Muslim faith. That someone whose name is prophet Muhammad.
     

    Quote
    Dr. Faheem Younus is a clinical associate professor at the University of Maryland. He is the founder of Muslimerican.com. He can be reached at faheem.younus@gmail.com and follow him on Twitter at @FaheemYounus.  ,,,on Twitter: www.twitter.com/FaheemYounus




    Well that is a part of what Dr. Faheem Younus wrote.,   .. Faheem is well educated guy .. his bio says
    Quote
    Dr. Younus served as the National Youth President of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA (MKA USA) from 2006-10. This leading Muslim youth group has thousands of members organized in over 60 chapters across USA. As President, he helped to build a strong Muslim American identity by demonstrating that there should be no conflict between our pledge to the Holy Quran and our pledge to the flag of United States. Under his leadership, Muslim American youth adopted over 50 highways across the nation, collected thousands of units of blood, organized massive community outreach events and held large-scale conventions. He currently serves as the National Secretary for Education for the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA.

    Teaching: Dr. Younus teaches a popular course, Islam: Fact and Fiction, at multiple campuses across the nation. He has delivered over 50 lectures about Islam to students at the Johns Hopkins University, University of Maryland, University of Baltimore, and various community colleges in Maryland. He also teaches medical students from the University of Maryland and the medical residents at the Franklin Square Hospital. Dr. Younus has addressed audiences as small as 10 to as large as 10,000.


    With all that background I expect him to be thorough with his faith and faith books like hadith and Quran.,  but.. I am not faith head and I am one of those fools who will   look upon everything with critical eye including his faith and his medical profession., Any ways  I don't know what is true what is not true.. To find out the truth and to figure out the facts in that Dr. Faheem Younus article,   I have to carefully sieve through  the verses from Quran and words from Hadith . So we will..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #28 - October 16, 2012, 03:48 PM

    I truly love the don't blame the Taliban article.

    I write a lot and that article takes the words right of my mouth.
    I'm not brave enough yet, to post such things under my full name in a well-read paper.  Yet, I do blog about the same concepts.

    It's such a good read, I sent it to a whole lot of people.

    There is hope yet with such brave people taking on the moderates.

  • Re: When Pakistanis look within
     Reply #29 - October 16, 2012, 03:55 PM

    @yeezevee,

    yeah, I find it hard to take moderate Muslim writers seriously... especially those who post on leftist publications like the huffington post.
    This one also got to me recently.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/imam-abdullah-antepli/the-last-sermon-of-prophe_b_1252185.html

    We still have so much to learn from this 1,400-plus-year-old cry and we are so much in need of this message of Muhammad in our broken time where we continue to struggle with almost identical issues in our global human community. We need to go back to these core teachings and examples of Islam and similarly strive for achieving an ethical and moral society, wherever we live, where no one inflicts nor suffers inequity, unfairness and in justice. 

    This is a guy talking about the progressiveness of Islam in the final sermon... you know the bit about all men being equal and race not mattering.
    Yet hilariously... he quotes the entire sermon in the article... it's as if he doesn't even read it what he is writing.

    O People, it is true that you have certain rights over your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers. It is your right and they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste

    Yeah! Men take care of women.  Women obey their husbands who 'take them on'.  Women must be virgins and you a husband can tell his wife who she can be friends with!
    This is most progressive you see!

    With such blindness, I just sit in awe.



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