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Theme Changer

 Topic: Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?

 (Read 1866 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?
     OP - September 09, 2012, 01:11 PM

    I really want to take off my hijab but I'm not ready to tell people about my doubts towards Islam.  So, how can I support the Muslim argument against hijab (it must exist as so many Muslims don't wear it)?

    I know the Qur'an doesn't actually say we need to wear scarves/abayas etc. so how do you all interpret what it does say? i.e. covering from head to toe... must all women or just the wives of prophets... etc. etc. etc.

    I just want to be able to give a justifiable argument against hijab not being explicitly compulsory without giving away my serious doubts about the whole religion.

    Thanks in advance!
  • Re: Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?
     Reply #1 - September 09, 2012, 02:55 PM

    Google Imam Usama Hasan and Tarek Fatah. They are popular modern muslims so they have probably written/speaken on why the hijaab and niqaab are not necessary.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?
     Reply #2 - September 09, 2012, 03:00 PM

    I really want to take off my hijab but I'm not ready to tell people about my doubts towards Islam.  So, how can I support the Muslim argument against hijab (it must exist as so many Muslims don't wear it)?

    I know the Qur'an doesn't actually say we need to wear scarves/abayas etc. so how do you all interpret what it does say? i.e. covering from head to toe... must all women or just the wives of prophets... etc. etc. etc.

    I just want to be able to give a justifiable argument against hijab not being explicitly compulsory without giving away my serious doubts about the whole religion.

    Thanks in advance!


    Hiya

    sorry if this might not come across as valid but i'll try and give it a go.  Some would interpret it saying you should look modest and decent which comes into question what constitutes that? Well for allot of Muslims they would think if you're not showing off excessive cleavage then you're OK eg low cut tops and mini skirts.

    To me personally i don't mind if muslim girls dressed like that and tbh would love to see more girls dressed like that without having to do in secret.

    You can also put across the whole how does this attract attention away from me argument? They say it reduces the chances of getting raped which i assume is why women dress that way, however you can even look at evidence that sometimes wearing a hijab can still draw attention for you to get raped due to it looking alien to the western world where we get encouraged not to wear it. Look at islamic countries where they would have to wear it by law, there hasn't exactly been no rape cases over there at all.

    They are two on top of my head, but if you want more just let me know. Good luck in doing this btw and hope i have been of help to you.


    This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

    https://twitter.com/#!/BornWithNoSoul
  • Re: Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?
     Reply #3 - September 09, 2012, 04:59 PM

    say that you are getting unwanted attention from men with hijab fetishes.
  • Re: Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?
     Reply #4 - September 09, 2012, 05:32 PM

    say that you are getting unwanted attention from men with hijab fetishes.


    yes and also say you can get racially motivated attention

    This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

    https://twitter.com/#!/BornWithNoSoul
  • Re: Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?
     Reply #5 - September 09, 2012, 06:34 PM

    I don't think the harrasment = a legitimate reason to take it off since there are way too many martyr type stories in the hadiths that show you should ride the storm out.

    And also unless you adopt a quran only stance there is no way to say it's ambiguous.

    If you do however adopt a quran only stance, you could have more leeway since it's all down to interpretation and you could simply say that the quran itself says it needs no scholars to interpret it since it's easy to understand.

    The verses in question only talk about drawing one's veil around the chest and neck, so as long as no cleavage is showing and no over the top adornments to attract attention you could skate a fine line in interpreting it yourself.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?
     Reply #6 - September 09, 2012, 06:54 PM

    Yes, definitely.

    Hello btw, not sure I welcomed you in your introductory thread.  Please accept a  parrot to symbolose her holy noodliness ( the reduction in the number of pirates is inversely related to global warming....)

    Ok, back to the OP.

    It is all the Greek's fault.  Showing women's hair is definitely immodest.

    Quote
    JBL Head-Covering Article Discussed in The Christian Century
    John Dart
    [Troy W. Martin's JBL article, "Paul's Argument from Nature for the Veil in 1 Corinthians 11:13-15: A Testicle Instead of a Head Covering," (JBL 123/1 [2004] 75­84) was discussed in the May 2004 issue of The Christian Century. Members may read the complete JBL article online by clicking Publications, Journals, then Journal of Biblical Literature.]

    Paul: Female hair too sexy to go unveiled

    The apostle Paul wanted women to cover their tresses while praying because he — like the rest of Hellenistic culture then — believed that the long hair of adult females was the sexual equivalent of male testicles, according to a newly published study.

    Citing writings from Aristotle, Euripedes and the disciples of Hippocrates, the "father of medicine," Troy W. Martin of St. Xavier University in Chicago said that Paul reflected the physiology of his time in believing that the hair of adult women "is part of female genitalia." Martin's article appears in the spring issue of the Journal of Biblical Literature.

    Modern commentators on the First Letter to the Corinthians have often confessed their confusion over exactly what Paul was telling the Greek church to do. Martin contends that is partly because Paul used a sexual euphemism in 1 Corinthians 11:15 for a word translated as "covering." The word means "testicle" in works by Euripedes and a second-century AD Greek novelist, he said.

    Ancient medical views of where semen comes from and where it goes help to explain Paul's convoluted argument in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16, Martin wrote. "Hippocratic authors hold that hair is hollow and grows primarily from either male or female reproductive fluid or semen flowing into it and congealing," he said. The brain is the place where this fluid is produced or at least stored, they thought. "Since hollow body parts create a vacuum and attract fluid, hair attracts semen," Martin said.

    Martin, a professor of religious studies at the Catholic university, is collaborating on a multivolume work aimed at using ancient medical texts to illuminate passages and concepts in the New Testament.

    When Paul tells the church in Corinth that "nature teaches" that it is "degrading" for men to wear their hair long, the apostle to the gentiles is alluding to once-common beliefs about the role of hair in sexual intercourse, he said. Men with long locks would divert too much semen from their scrotum where their pubic hair and testicles have become larger at puberty. Luxurious hair on women serves them well, however, because those long, hollow hairs add to the suction in her body.

    "Long feminine hairs assist the uterus in drawing semen upward and inward; masculine testicles, which are connected to the brain by two channels, facilitate the drawing of semen downward and outward," wrote Martin. The favorite Hippocratic test for fertility in women was linked to the belief about the strong suction power of their head of hair. "A doctor places a scented suppository in a woman's uterus and examines her mouth the next day to see if he can smell the scent of the suppository," said Martin. If he can, she is declared fertile; if not, she is termed sterile because channels to her head are blocked. "The male seed is therefore discharged rather than retained, and the woman cannot conceive," he wrote.

    "Informed by the Jewish tradition, which strictly forbids display of genitalia when engaged in God's service, Paul's argument from nature cogently supports a woman covering her head when praying or prophesying."

    Six-winged seraphim in Isaiah who take part in divine liturgy have two that reverently cover their face and two that cover the feet for modesty. "The term 'feet' euphemistically refers to the genitals of the seraphim," the scholar said. Hebrew priests approaching the altar are to wear linen breeches to cover their naked flesh, according to Exodus, but Martin said that "flesh" in that context means their genitals.

    A woman's hair is her "glory," says Paul, but he added that for the sake of decency her hair should be veiled during public worship. Inasmuch as conceptions of the body have changed, Martin added, "no physiological reason remains for continuing the practice of covering women's heads in public worship, and many Christian communities reasonably abandon this practice."

    Copyright 2004 The Christian Century. Reproduced by permission from the May 2004 issue of The Christian Century. Subscriptions: $49/year from P.O. Box 378, Mt. Morris, IL 61054. 1-800-208-4097


    http://www.sbl-site.org/publications/article.aspx?articleId=271

    If you google, you will find modern orthodox Jewish rabbis using the Greek doctors' views in their arguments! 

    I understand the beliefs about the veil in Islam to go directly back to these ideas about how human bodies work.

    Similar ideas are still found in Greek and other communities.

    So really, your choice about hijab is down to your ideas of human anatomy.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Is hijab (in the material sense) really 'compulsory' for Muslim women?
     Reply #7 - September 09, 2012, 07:04 PM

    Well first thing is first let us read Qur'an  and other Islamic texts on that subject., the verses that directly deal  are  
    Quote
    24:30. Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do.

    24: 31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.


    33: 59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    7:26: “O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.”  


    well that is all what we have .. from that you can take any meaning you like and  dress any way you like within those rules and you can buy some from here

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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