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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi..what's your problem?

 (Read 43595 times)
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  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #30 - June 27, 2012, 10:34 PM
    Quote
    So one should quietly move on when one has lost one's entire family due to leaving Islam? One should quietly move on when one has had many death threats made on one's life, due to ex-friends/family/ex-husband following their interpretation of Islam where they believe one should die for apostasy?


    By the logic of some, you even mentioning this is an act of vilification, hatred and so on and so forth.

     
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #31 - June 27, 2012, 10:34 PM
    Quote from: superstrike on June 27, 2012, 10:31 PM
    Finally someone agrees with me!


     wacko
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #32 - June 27, 2012, 10:36 PM
    Hey superstrike I hope you aren't telling Da_Dude that she should be quiet about those things or you might get superstruck. Wink
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #33 - June 27, 2012, 10:38 PM
    popcorn
    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #34 - June 27, 2012, 10:39 PM
    I think i've made my views clear:

    acceptable =respectful constructive criticism and debate

    not acceptable  = attacks, ridicule, vilfication of belief systems

    I think this is actually the 'official' view of most international organisations. Whether it is applied in practice is another matter.
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #35 - June 27, 2012, 10:41 PM
    .
    You need to read this book.
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #36 - June 27, 2012, 10:45 PM
    Quote from: superstrike on June 27, 2012, 10:39 PM
    I think i've made my views clear:

    acceptable =respectful constructive criticism and debate

    not acceptable  = attacks, ridicule, vilfication of belief systems

    I think this is actually the 'official' view of most international organisations. Whether it is applied in practice is another matter.


    Which 'international organisations'?

    And the idea that beliefs should not be ridiculed is risible.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #37 - June 27, 2012, 10:47 PM
    Quote from: Tonyt on June 27, 2012, 10:18 PM
    Indeed, what about Muhammad himself? Is he wrong for ridiculing other's beliefs?
     


    This is not ridicule. Trust me those translations are not completely accurate (i'm not saying they're wrong). This is the Qu'ran pointing out erroneous beliefs. At the end of the day, muslims believe that we are no the correct path, and certain other paths have deviated. That is what those verses are alluding to. As you would know, The Qu'ran uses a lot of metaphors and has a distinct prose style.
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #38 - June 27, 2012, 10:48 PM
    Quote from: billy on June 27, 2012, 10:45 PM
    Which 'international organisations'?

    And the idea that beliefs should not be ridiculed is risible.




    If you look at any workplace guidelines, this is what they would state. Prejudice is never tolerated in the workplace.
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #39 - June 27, 2012, 10:51 PM
    Saying unbelievers are the vilest of animals is not ridicule?

    What if someone was to say that Muslims are the vilest of animals? Would you consider that to be ridicule? Or just metaphors in a distinctive prose style?
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #40 - June 27, 2012, 10:54 PM
    Quote from: superstrike on June 27, 2012, 10:48 PM
    If you look at any workplace guidelines, this is what they would state. Prejudice is never tolerated in the workplace.


    Firstly, you said 'international organisations'

    Secondly, you are delusional. British law protects the right to vilify, ridicule and attack religions and belief systems.

    Your attempt to equate that with hate crimes is not only false, it is insidious, and rejected by British law, and in the wider culture.

    Get with the programme. That is never going to change.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #41 - June 27, 2012, 10:56 PM
    Quote from: Tonyt on June 27, 2012, 10:51 PM
    Saying unbelievers are the vilest of animals is not ridicule?

    What if someone was to say that Muslims are the vilest of animals? Would you consider that to be ridicule? Or just metaphors in a distinctive prose style?


    It says 'worst creatures' not animals
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #42 - June 27, 2012, 10:58 PM

    Tony has demonstrated how there are hateful scriptural sequences in the Islamic holy texts. Can you perceive how your special pleading is seen as really loathsome hypocrisy now?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #43 - June 27, 2012, 10:59 PM
    The problem is when people criticize the deeply held beliefs of others, they tend to take that as personal criticism. Criticizing and even ridiculing beliefs is perfectly legitimate - even necessary. One should not take offense to this.

    Ridiculing individuals is an entirely different matter, though not necessarily something that individuals have any "right" to be "protected" from. You don't have a right not to be offended. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #44 - June 27, 2012, 11:00 PM
    There is no difference between creatures and animals. But various translations have rendered it beasts and animals:

    Quote
    008.055
    YUSUFALI: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.
    PICKTHAL: Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.
    SHAKIR: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.


    Quote
    098.006
    YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
    PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
    SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.

     
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #45 - June 27, 2012, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: superstrike on June 27, 2012, 10:56 PM
    It says 'worst creatures' not animals


    That is a supremacist's put down! DEFINITELY NOT RESPECTFUL !


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #46 - June 27, 2012, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: billy on June 27, 2012, 10:58 PM
    Tony has demonstrated how there are hateful scriptural sequences in the Islamic holy texts. Can you perceive how your special pleading is seen as really loathsome hypocrisy now?



    Trust me it is not how it appears. It is merely contextual when you read it in arabic.

    Anyway, you are digressing..

    I still don't understand what your problem with muslims is. I'm a muslim, what is it that I do that harms you so much? The fact that I don't drink alcohol? The fact that I don't fornicate? Is it because I pray 5 times a day? Is it because I try to be kind to my parents and others? Is it because I think that if i ever had a daughter, she should wear hijab (if she wanted)?  What exactly is the problem here? And I address this as a MODERATE practising muslim. I am NOT and extremist and will never be. I have issues with extremism myself.
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #47 - June 27, 2012, 11:06 PM
    Few if any of us have problems with most muslims. Our issue is with the doctrine itself as well as those who use it to justify reprehensible acts of violence and subjugation against others.
    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #48 - June 27, 2012, 11:06 PM
    Quote
    Trust me it is not how it appears


    You're not dealing with common garden Guardian reading liberals who are gullible saps. Trust is the one thing that dissapears when you say that.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #49 - June 27, 2012, 11:07 PM
    Quote from: Solara on June 27, 2012, 11:06 PM
    Few if any of us have problems with most muslims. Our issue is with the doctrine itself as well as those who use it to justify reprehensible acts of violence and subjugation against others.


    I am on your side regarding this
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #50 - June 27, 2012, 11:09 PM
    Quote from: superstrike on June 27, 2012, 11:04 PM

    I still don't understand what your problem with muslims is.


    You misrepresent what the problem is. The problem is entirely within you. The problem is that you conflate criticism of Islam with hate crimes, and that you consider the rejection of Islam, and criticism of it with hatred of individuals.

    Also, your attempt to place boundaries on criticism of Islam is insidious and creepy.

    That deserves to be criticised - you are free to practise as you wish - you try to tell people not to criticise something, you are going to be in for dissapointment. By doing so, you placed your beliefs in the firing line.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #51 - June 27, 2012, 11:27 PM
    Does Islam too need a burkha?


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #52 - June 28, 2012, 05:12 PM
    I still don't understand why this website exists?? If you don't want to be muslim, fine, quietly walk out the back door..why rant and rave about it?
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #53 - June 28, 2012, 05:33 PM
    Quote
    I still don't understand why this website exists??


    As a place for ex muslims to meet and chat with like minded people, seek advice about common problems associated with apostasy from Islam, discuss life, the universe and everything, and yes even rant and rave if they want to. 

    Quote
    If you don't want to be muslim, fine, quietly walk out the back door.


    I'm an ex-Catholic, and I've never once had a practicing Catholic tell me I should quietly walk out the back door.  Never.  They either try and preach the beliefs to me in an effort to bring me back to the One True Church, (that's mostly just my mother), or they respect my choice and let me say what I like, while reserving their own right to argue with anything they disagree with.

    Why are you so concerned with keeping ex muslims quiet? 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #54 - June 28, 2012, 05:35 PM
    Quote from: superstrike on June 28, 2012, 05:12 PM
    I still don't understand why this website exists?? If you don't want to be muslim, fine, quietly walk out the back door..why rant and rave about it?


    Some of us have come to the distinct impression that we were systematically lied to.

    What entitles you to argue that such people should not speak?
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #55 - June 28, 2012, 05:40 PM
    Quote from: superstrike on June 28, 2012, 05:12 PM
    I still don't understand why this website exists?? If you don't want to be muslim, fine, quietly walk out the back door..why rant and rave about it?


    You have had this answered time and time again on this thread.

    Go back and read the replies until you get it.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #56 - June 28, 2012, 05:45 PM
     Cheesy this is like the download that never completes


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #57 - June 28, 2012, 06:50 PM
    Quote from: superstrike on June 28, 2012, 05:12 PM
    I still don't understand why this website exists?? If you don't want to be muslim, fine, quietly walk out the back door..why rant and rave about it?


    Why do Islamic forums exist? If you want to be a Muslim then fine, be quiet, and no need to rant and rave about it...

  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #58 - June 28, 2012, 07:06 PM
    Quote from: toor on June 28, 2012, 05:35 PM
    Some of us have come to the distinct impression that we were systematically lied to.

    What entitles you to argue that such people should not speak?


    I'm interested in what lies these were? This is the second time i've read that on this thread. What are these 'lies' that you have been told by muslims?

    To make myself clear, my definition of quiet in this forum means quiet in the sense of not attacking other people's faiths.
  • Re: Hi..what's your problem?
     Reply #59 - June 28, 2012, 07:13 PM
    Quote from: apostasist on June 28, 2012, 06:50 PM
    Why do Islamic forums exist? If you want to be a Muslim then fine, be quiet, and no need to rant and rave about it...




     dance Afro


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
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