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 Topic: Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....

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  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #60 - December 14, 2015, 02:46 PM

    The HADITH - How it was Collected and Compiled By Dr. Mohammad Shafi _Part-2


     The Prophet was a very patient and considerate teacher. God had said that He does not want matters to be difficult but to be easy. The Companions were very watchful of every move and word of the Prophet; even his most private life was observed and reported by his wives. People observed his actions and practices; they would memorize what he said and some would write down what they saw and heard. Everyone would practice what they learned, and they would teach each other and correct each other.

      The Prophet was careful to vary many of his practices so they would not become normative; he would emphasize the difference between his role as a Messenger of God and his thoughts and actions as an ordinary human being. The companions were not passive learners either. It was not uncommon for a Companion to say: “O Messenger of God, may my mother and father be sacrificed for you, is this from God or from your opinion”? If he said it is from God, that would
    end the dialogue; but if he said it is his opinion, the Companion might say, “I have a different opinion”-- notice, not a better opinion, but a different one. And it was not uncommon for the Prophet to go along with the opinions of others, sometimes against his own better judgment. The battle of the ditch, for example, was fought within the confines of the city because the youth felt that leaving the city would be seen by the enemy as a sign of weakness. The Prophet did not prefer this option but went along with it. A Persian Companion told them about digging a ditch to defend the city.

    God held the Prophet to a very high standard to assure that no misinterpretations of his actions or word occur. Sometimes a revelation would come to contradict the Prophet or even rebuke him, sometimes on a seemingly minor matter. For example: a poor man came to the Prophet when he was talking to, and seeking the support of, some rich and powerful men. The Prophet did not acknowledge the presence of the poor man. A revelation came rebuking him on this lack of paying more attention to the powerful when the poor man was trying to get his attention. The Companions were so keen on learning all about the Prophet that the very busy ones had formed cooperative groups so at least one member would be in daily attendance in the Prophet’s company; those who attended would then meet others to fill them in.


     Things were relatively simple during the Prophet’s lifetime. If someone wanted guidance concerning an issue, for which no guidance was known to him, he would go to the Prophet and ask. (It was not uncommon to ask others who had the reputation for knowledge or were known for the acuity of their thought). The Prophet may provide an answer, or refer them to someone else, in order to establish the habit and practice of mutual consultation.

     After the Prophet’s death, this avenue had to be replaced by referring to his Hadith. As the community grew out of Madinah, and the time span increased, more information had to be provided. How did the Hadith get to the person quoting it? An elaborate Science was created to authenticate the Hadith and establish a level of authenticity for each report.

     It should be noted that there were recordings of the Hadith in the Prophet’s time. People who reported large numbers of Hadith were more likely to have written down things and also to have been in the company of the Prophet more frequently. For example, the most prolific Companion is a person named Abu Huraira. Abu Huraira lived to a ripe old age so many next generation people met him and spoke with him. It is said that he reported 5,374 Hadith. (A single issue reported through multiple chains of reporters would be counted as different Hadith by most counters. If such reports are unduplicated, Abu Huraira’s reports are still about 1236.) The second most quoted Companion is Abdullah ibn `Umar with 2,630 Hadith. They are followed by Anas ibn Malik with 2,286 and ‘A’isha (the Prophet’s wife) with 2,210. Interestingly, the first four Khalifa reported relatively few Hadith: a very small number from the first Khalifa, Abu Bakr; 537 from ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab; a tiny number from `Uthman ibn `Affan, and only 536 from the fourth Khalifa, ‘Ali Ibn Abu Talib.

    When the chains got longer, and reporters further removed, the collectors and compilers used careful words to describe the mode of transmission. For example, distinct words are used to describe the following situations:

    • Sima`: Readings by teachers to students.

    • `Arad: Readings by students to teachers.

    • ‘Ijiazah: Permit someone to transmit a Hadith (or book); report “on the authority of” the  scholar.

    • Munadalah: To hand someone written material.

    • Kitabah: To write Hadith for someone

    • I`laam: To inform someone that informer has the permission to transmit certain material.

    • Wasiyyah: To entrust someone his books

    • Wajada: To discover some book or written records

    As can be seen, the Hadith methodology and the system became very elaborate as the times became further removed from the Prophet. The Muslims never took this task lightly. The Qur’an has been taken so seriously that no spelling mistakes, or even punctuation mistakes, are accepted in the text; every letter is counted and no additions or subtractions would go undetected. The Hadith, by its very nature cannot be as protected as the Qur’an, but it is still a very rigorous discipline. When you are thinking of transmission, think of the chain first.  


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #61 - December 14, 2015, 05:21 PM

     The HADITH - How it was Collected and Compiled  By Dr. Mohammad Shafi _Part-3


    The Muslims in general and the experts of the science of Hadith in particular, insisted on knowing the source of information. Who were the individuals in the chain of reporting whatever it is they were recording? As the years go by, the number of people in the chain of reporting an event or a statement increases geometrically. In addition, the diversity of the first generation of reporters becomes more diverse. Among the first generation itself, some reporters would have good memories, others won’t. Some would have better understanding and comprehension than others and some would better understand the context than others. Each of these people in the chain interacts with a diverse group of the next generation. By the third generation, we have tens of thousands of people in the process. The possibility of fabricators increases. Political and tribal agendas come into play. The scholars had to devise methodologies to deal with the challenge of discovering the various capabilities of reporters, and of identifying fabricators and people with special tribal, ethnic, or sectarian agendas. Thus was born the next element of authenticating Hadith; the Isnad.


     Muslim scholars developed the most rigorous testing techniques for dealing with the level of authenticity of recording what we would call history. They were engaged in what is textual criticism in the modern sense. When a given Hadith is looked at, a list of all the reporters in the chains through which it has been transmitted is made; then the chains are compared. A new science of Asma Al-Rijal, was developed which documented a biography of each individual involved in the chains. Such biographies were developed for tens of thousands of people. The information included the place and time of birth and death of each reporter. They recorded information on their education, their teachers, their truthfulness, the people they had met and the level of their interaction. How was their level of comprehension? Did they have a tendency to be unnecessarily talkative? How meticulous were they in their reporting? What, and when did they transmit their Hadith, and how does that relate to their  characteristics? This information was available to all scholars engaged in the science of Hadith.

     Having reliable people in the chain was not enough. It was required that Hadith on matters of importance come through a number of independent chains. If all the chains of a particular Hadith go through a single individual somewhere in the middle of the chain, it is called “’ahad”, a singular Hadith, and is not acceptable for important purposes by all schools of law. For ‘ahad, the text itself becomes much more significant. The scholars also pay attention to the site and situation of an incident. If something occurred in public, then one would expect many people to  report it. Report of a miraculous event required, in nearly all cases, that it be reported by a crowd--which is defined as a minimum of twelve people. The collectors and documenters of Hadith went through this process of classifying each Hadith and scores of other reviewers later went through independent analyses of each Hadith in each of the collections.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #62 - December 14, 2015, 05:28 PM

      The HADITH - How it was Collected and Compiled  By Dr. Mohammad Shafi _Part-4


    After the isnad work is done and the Hadith falls within a certain level of classification, its text is run through various tests. The first is to see if the text in any way contradicts the Qur’an. If so, the Hadith is rejected. That does not mean it is false--perhaps the reporter misunderstood the situation. If it is not against Qur’an, does it contradict other Hadith that are reliable? If so, at what level are the differences? Are there different shades of application? Or, should one or the other or both be rejected? These types of tests are followed by tests against logic rules. Does it really make sense? Tests of applied logic and reasonableness based in spirituality and religion may be needed. Some schools of Hadith methodology apply as many as sixteen separate tests. For example, the rules would reject a report about the importance of an individual (or individuals) which is transmitted only through their supporters or family, and which is not supported by reports from other independent channels. Similarly rejected would be a report that seems to be an exaggeration, unless strongly corroborated by multiple reliable sources


    • There is a report from a very strong source, “Reported by `Umar”. This is `Umar Ibn al Khattab, the one about whom the Prophet said that if there was going to be a prophet after me, it would be `Umar. The same `Umar who became the second Caliph and who is considered, by the Hanafi scholars, to be one of the four most profound thinkers of the Muslim world community. His son, Abdullah (considered to be a great scholar in his own right), reports his father saying that he heard the Prophet say that “the dead person is punished if his family mourns loudly and cries (in the manner of the time of ignorance) at his grave.” Upon hearing this report, the much younger ‘A’isha, the widow of the
    Prophet, flatly rejects it out of hand. The basis she gives for her rejection is that the report goes against the Ayah of the Qur’an: “and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another” (Syrah 35, beginning of Ayah 18). (Translation Note: The bearer in the Ayah is feminine and refers to the Nafs which means a person but translated by some as soul.)

    The husband of Fatima bint Qais had pronounced three concurrent divorces on her, a practice discouraged by the Qur’an. She claimed that her ex-husband then refused to give her maintenance provisions. She reported, during the time of the second Caliph, that she came to the Prophet and he refused to award her maintenance from her husband. When the Caliph `Umar heard this, he rejected it on the authority of the Qur’an, quoting parts of two Ayahs. The translation of the first quote (part of Ayah 236 of Surah 2) is as follows: “…but bestow upon them allowances, the wealthy according to their means and the poor according to their means, as commonly known to be reasonable…“. Translation of the second quote (part of Ayah 1 of Surah 65) is: “…do not expel them from their houses…”. The first quote, therefore, indicating that the divorced women was entitled to expenses and the second indicating that she was entitled to staying in the house, until the end of the prescribed period of finalizing the divorce.


     After analysis and critiques, each Hadith is classified into one of several categories. Some are classified as sahih (rigorously authentic); others are classified as hasan (good), gharib (acceptable but poor), maudu` (partially manufactured), batil (invalid), etc. A Hadith that has come through many reliable chains and accepted by scholars at the highest level of authenticity may be called Mutawatir, (successively fully authenticated), and considered unassailably applicable. Different scholars may classify the same Hadith differently based on their analyses and critique. A Hadith is classified differently by different experts mainly because of the reliability ratings they assign to the reporters in the chain.  Scholars classify each reporter in the chain into one of twelve different levels of reliability. Bukhari accepts reports from only the top two levels; some accept reports from the top three levels, others use reports from various other levels. The science of Hadith is thus not a simple matter of quoting a Hadith but is one that requires knowing and understanding the details of the text, the context, and the characteristics of each person in all the chains of narration. The Sciences of Jurisprudence require even a greater level of scrutiny and analysis.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #63 - December 14, 2015, 05:37 PM

    The HADITH - How it was Collected and Compiled  By Dr. Mohammad Shafi _Part-5


     Many early collections were fragmentary and were undertaken for special purposes. Most survived as parts of legal and spiritual arguments or were incorporated in the more comprehensive collections. Major, systematic collections were made toward the end of the second and the beginning of the third Hijri centuries:

    1. The Mu’watta of Malik is the earliest. He was born in Madinah: B. 93H D 179H

    2. The Musnad of Ahmad is next. He was born in Basra: B. 164H D 241H

    But the “Sihah Sittah” (literally, “the most rigorously authenticated six”) are:

    1. The Sahih of Bukhari. He was born in Bukhara: B. 194H D 256H
    2. The Sahih of Muslim. He was born in Nishapur: B. 204H D 261H
    3. The Sunan of Abu Dawud. He was born in Sajistan: B. 202H D 275H
    4. The Sunan of Tirmidhi. He was born in Khurasan: B. 209H D 279H
    5. The Sunan of An-Nisa’i. He was born in Khurasan: B. 214H D 303H
    6. The Sunan of Ibn Majah: B. 209H D 273H

     These above six are accepted by scholars as the six most reliable collections, the Sihah Sittah (the fully authenticated six collections). Without getting into technical details, it should be  pointed out that each of the six uses somewhat different tests for rigorous authentication.
    Because Bukhari is the most strict, the authenticity of his collection is accepted second only to
    that of the Qur’an. Muslim is next. A Hadith included in both has a higher authority than that of
    Bukhari alone and is usually described as “agreed upon”. While the above six are considered
    “authenticated collections”, analysts have identified some less reliable Hadith reports in the last
    two of the six. On the other hand, the Mu’atta of Malik has since been thoroughly analyzed and
    is considered to contain fully reliable Hadith reports. But the Mu’atta was not included in the
    Sihah because it does not list the details of the chain of narration, requirements that were made
    mandatory by the scholars after the death of Malik.


    From a partial transcript of a talk given by Dr. Sherman Jackson at the Dar Al Islam Teachers Institute, August 4, 1997.

    Question: Do the Shi’ites consider these six collections to be authoritative?

    Answer: The Shi’ites have their own collections of Hadith. In addition to the Hadith of the Prophet, the Shi’ites, consider the statements of the twelve Imams to be authoritative for Shi’ites.

    Question: Are the differences--errr-- contradictions? How can Hadith and Qur’an be equally authoritative when two Hadith (sic) may contradict each other?

    Answer: In a case where there are two contradictory Hadith, there may be a case of abrogation. For example, when the Prophet first moved to Madinah he was praying in the direction of Jerusalem; then later he began to pray in the direction of Makkah, which abrogated the previous directive. So it is necessary to know the chronology and other circumstances. One cannot simply take a single Hadith from a collection and base a conclusion on it.

    Question: But if X is a Hadith, then it has the same authority as the Qur’an, right?

    Answer: Potentially. It is possible that there is a Hadith that is sound, but because it is narrated by only a single source it isn’t used by scholars as an equal source.

    Question: But these compilers were all men. Ideas have changed.

    Answer: The Prophet was an Arab, but if one accepts that he is a Prophet, then he is a recipient of the Revelation and is, therefore, transcendent of a particular society. The fact that the compilers are men confers on them no particular advantage. Aisha is in a much better position than Bukhari to have her voice heard because she can say, “I heard the Prophet say…” Imam asSuyuti has a whole book on the issues about which Aisha corrected the other (male) Companions when they were incorrect. There are differences of interpretation. We know of differences of interpretation even in the lifetime of the Prophet: different groups of companions might interpret the words of the Prophet differently. But that is OK. There is a Hadith that tells us that when a scholar tries his utmost to understand a particular issue, if he is correct, he gets two rewards from God and if he is wrong, he gets one reward.

    Sherman Jackson, the King Faisal Chair in Islamic Thought and Culture and Professor of Religion and American Studies and Ethnicity in USC..  Dr Jackson's Response & Letter to Dr Tariq Ramadan discourse

    Tariq Ramadan vs Sherman Jackson: A Traditionalist Perspective on American Muslim Leadership byDr. Robert D. Crane


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #64 - December 29, 2015, 09:41 AM

    So people often send me some Islamic literature  and of them that caught my  eye is this story of Angel of Death ..


    we can zillion such links on web on that story... and the story comes from this RIDICULOUS hadith

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The angel of death was sent to Moses and when he went to him, Moses slapped him severely, spoiling one of his eyes. The angel went back to his Lord, and said, "You sent me to a slave who does not want to die." Allah restored his eye and said, "Go back and tell him (i.e. Moses) to place his hand over the back of an ox, for he will be allowed to live for a number of years equal to the number of hairs coming under his hand." (So the angel came to him and told him the same). Then Moses asked, "O my Lord! What will be then?" He said, "Death will be then." He said, "(Let it be) now." He asked Allah that He bring him near the Sacred Land at a distance of a stone's throw. Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) said, "Were I there I would show you the grave of Moses by the way near the red sand hill.  

    "Moses slapped angel of death so bad that one of his eye pops out and the angel goes to Heeeeeeeallah and complains to him...... "

    where do they get such silly stories from ? is it there in OT ? why do these well educate Muslim intellectuals fall for such cock and bull stupid stories??  well this link at  says
    —Biblical Data:
    In the Bible death is viewed under form of an angel sent from God, a being deprived of all voluntary power.

    The "angel of the Lord" smites 185,000 men in the Assyrian camp (II Kings xix. 35).

    "The destroyer" ("ha-mashḥit") kills the first-born of the Egyptians (Ex. xii. 23), and the

    "destroying angel" ("mal'ak ha-mashḥit") rages among the people in Jerusalem (II Sam. xxiv. 15).

    In I Chron. xxi. 15 the "angel of the Lord" is seen by David standing "between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem."

    Job (xxxiii. 22) uses the general term "destroyer" ("memitim"), which tradition has identified with "destroying angels" ("mal'ake ḥabbalah") (Bacher, "Ag. Pal. Amor." iii. 279, note 9),

     and Prov. xvi. 14 uses the term the "angels of death" ("mal'ake ha-mawet"). See Demonology.

    The Rabbis found the angel of death mentioned in Ps. lxxxix. 45 (A. V. 48), where the Targum translates: "There is no man who lives and, seeing the angel of death, can deliver his soul from his hand" (compare also Targ. to Job xviii. 13; Ps. xci. 5; Hab. iii. 5). Eccl. viii. 4 is thus explained in Midr. R. to the passage: "One may not escape the angel of death, nor say to him, 'Wait until I put my affairs in order,' or 'There is my son, my slave: take him in my stead.'"

    —In Rabbinical Literature:
    The angel of death occurs very frequently in rabbinical literature.

    Where the angel of death appears there is no remedy (Ned. 49a; Ḥul. 7b). If one who has sinned has confessed his fault, the angel of death may not touch him (Tan., Balaḳ, ed. Buber, 139). God protects from the angel of death (Gen. R. lxviii.). By acts of benevolence the anger of the angel of death is overcome; when one fails to perform such acts the angel of death will make his appearance (Derek Ereẓ Zuṭa, viii.). The angel of death receives his order from God (Ber. 62b). As soon as he has received permission to destroy, however, he makes no distinction between good and bad (B. Ḳ. 60a). In the city of Luz the angel of death has no power, and when the aged inhabitants are ready to die they go outside the city (Soṭah 46b; compare Sanh. 97a). A legend to the same effect existed in Ireland in the Middle Ages ("Jew. Quart. Rev." vi. 336).

    Form and Functions.

    The angel of death was created by God on thefirst day (Tan. on Gen. xxxix. 1). His dwelling is in heaven, whence he reaches earth in eight flights, whereas pestilence reaches it in one (Ber. 4b). He has twelve wings (Pirḳe R. El. xiii). "Over all people have I surrendered thee the power," said God to the angel of death, "only not over this one which has received freedom from death through the Law" (Tan. to Ex. xxxi. 18; ed. Stettin, p. 315). ........................

    The soul escapes through the mouth, or, as is stated in another place, through the throat; therefore the angel of death stands at the head of the patient (Jellinek, l.c. ii. 94, Midr.Teh. to Ps. xi.). When the soul forsakes the body its voice goes from one end of the world to the other, but is not heard (Gen. R. vi. 7; Ex. R. v. 9; Pirḳe R. El. xxxiv.). The drawn sword of the angel of death, mentioned by the Chronicler (I. Chron. xxi. 15; comp. Job xv. 22; Enoch lxii. 11), indicates that the angel of death was figured as a warrior who kills off the children of men. "Man, on the day of his death, falls down before the angel of death like a beast before the slaughterer" (Grünhut, "Liḳḳuṭim," v. 102a).
    A peculiar mantle ("idra"—according to Levy, "Neuhebr. Wörterb." i. 32, a sword) belongs to the equipment of the angel of death (Eccl. R. iv. 7). The angel of death takes on the particular form which will best serve his purpose; e.g., he appears to a scholar in the form of a beggar imploring pity (M. Ḳ. 28a). "When pestilence rages in the town, walk not in the middle of the street, because the angel of death [i.e., pestilence] strides there; if peace reigns in the town, walk not on the edges of the road. When pestilence rages in the town, go not alone to the synagogue, because there the angel of death stores his tools. If the dogs howl, the angel of death has entered the city; if they make sport, the prophet Elijah has come" (B. Ḳ. 60b). The "destroyer" ("saṭan ha-mashḥit") in the daily prayer is the angel of death (Ber. 16b). Midr. Ma'ase Torah (compare Jellinek, "B. H." ii. 98) says: "There are six angels of death: Gabriel over kings; Ḳapẓiel over youths; Mashbir over animals; Mashḥit over children; Af and Ḥemah over man and beast."

    Identical with Antichrist.
    When the Messiah comes all the dead will arise, and there will be an end to death; for the angel of death himself will be destroyed by the Messiah (Pesiḳ. R., ed. Friedmann, p. 161b). Satan, as the angel of death, is identified here with Antichrist. "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. xv. 26; compare Heb. ii. 14). The same idea seems to be expressed in the Book of Jubilees xxiii. 29: "And they shall fulfil all their days in peace and joy, and shall live on, since there will be no Satan and no evil to destroy them."

    The angel of death, who is identified with Satan, immediately after his creation had a dispute with God as to the light of the Messiah (Pesiḳ. R. 161b). When Eve touched the tree of knowledge, she perceived the angel of death, and thought: "Now I shall die, and God will create another wife for Adam" (Pirḳe R. El. xiii., end; compare Targum Yer. to Gen. iii. 6, and Yalḳ. i. § 25). Adam also had a conversation with the angel of death (Böklen, "Die Verwandtschaft der Jüdisch-Christlichen mit der Parsischen Eschatologie," p. 12). The angel of death sits before the face of the dead (Jellinek, l.c. ii. 94). While Abraham was mourning for Sarah the angel appeared to him, which explains why "Abraham stood up from before his dead" (Gen. xxiii. 3; Gen. R. lviii. 5, misunderstood by the commentators). Samuel told Sarah that Abraham had sacrificed Isaac in spite of his wailing, and Sarah died of horror and grief (Pirḳe R. El. xxxii.). It was Moses who most often had dealings with the angel. At the rebellion of Korah, Moses saw him (Num. R. v. 7; Bacher, l.c. iii. 333; compare Sanh. 82a). It was the angel of death in the form of pestilence which snatched away 15,000 every year during the wandering in the wilderness (ib. 70). When Moses reached heaven, the angel told him something (Jellinek, l.c. i. 61).

    When the angel of death came to Moses and said, "Give me thy soul," Moses called to him: "Where I sit thou hast no right to stand." And the angel retired ashamed, and reported the occurrence to God. Again, God commanded him to bring the soul of Moses. The angel went, and, not finding him, inquired of the sea, of the mountains, and of the valleys; but they knew nothing of him (Sifre, Deut. 305). Really, Moses did not die through the angel of death, but through God's kiss ("bi-neshiḳah"); i.e., God drew his soul out of his body (B. B. 17a; compare Abraham in Apocryphal and Rabbinical Literature, and parallel references in Böklen, l.c. p. 11). Legend seizes upon the story of Moses' struggle with the angel of death, and expands it at length (Tan., ed. Stettin, pp. 624 et seq.; Deut. R. ix., xi.; Grünhut, l.c. v. 102b, 169a). As Benaiah bound Ashmedai (Jew. Encyc. ii. 218a), so Moses binds the angel of death that he may bless Israel (Pesiḳ. 199, where "lifne moto" [Deut. xxxiii. 1] is explained as meaning "before the angel of death").

    Solomon once noticed that the angel of death wasgrieved. When questioned as to the cause of his sorrow he answered: "I am requested to take your two beautiful scribes." Solomon at once charged the demons to convey his scribes to Luz, where the angel of death could not enter. When they were near the city, however, they both died. The angel laughed on the next day, whereupon Solomon asked the cause of his mirth. "Because," answered the angel, "thou didst send the youths thither, whence I was ordered to fetch them" (Suk. 53a). In the next world God will let the angel of death fight against Pharaoh, Sisera, and Sennacherib (Yalḳ., Isa. 428).

    The teaching of God shields one from the power of the angel of death. The children of Israel have accepted the Torah only in order that the angel may have no power over them ('Ab. Zarah 5a). Since death results only from sin, it can not, of course, come to those who live in accordance with the Torah. Although the sentence of mortality once pronounced could never be recalled ('Ab. Zarah 5a), yet the angel of death may not visit teachers of the Law; he is rather their friend (ib. 35b), and even imparts learning to them (Ber. 51a).

    Scholars and the Angel of Death.

    Talmud teachers of the fourth century associate quite familiarly with him. When he appeared to one on the street, the teacher reproached him with rushing upon him as upon a beast; whereupon the angel called upon him at his house. To another he granted a respite of thirty days, that he might put his knowledge in order before entering the next world. To a third he had no access, because he could not interrupt the study of the Talmud. To a fourth he showed a rod of fire, whereby he is recognized as the angel of death (M. K. 28a). He often entered the house of Bibi and conversed with him (Ḥag. 4b). Often he resorts to strategy in order to interrupt and seize his victim (B. M. 86a; Mak. 10a).

    The death of Joshua ben Levi in particular is surrounded with a web of fable. When the time came for him to die and the angel of death appeared to him, he demanded to be shown his place in paradise. When the angel had consented to this, he demanded the angel's knife, that the angel might not frighten him by the way. This request also was granted him, and Joshua sprang with the knife over the wall of paradise; the angel, who is not allowed to enter paradise, catching hold of the end of his garment. Joshua swore that he would not come out, and God declared that he should not leave paradise unless he was absolved from his oath; if not absolved, he was to remain. The angel of death then demanded back his knife, but Joshua refused. At this point a heavenly voice ("bat ḳol") rang out: "Give him back the knife, because the children of men have need of it" (Ket. 77b; Jellinek, l.c. ii. 48-51; Bacher, l.c. i. 192 et seq.).  

    So to start with that Rabbinical Literature is nonsense and from that nonsense some fool writes another story in to hadith .. Now in 21st century brainless bums brains wash Muslim kids with such stories..   No wonder Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi  said 1000 year ago..

    You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: ‘Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one.’ Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. … By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: ‘Produce something like it’?.... Zakariya al-Razi

    fools write nonsense over nonsense to defend nonsense..........  Mock them and move on...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #65 - May 05, 2017, 04:54 PM

    Hadith no: 307  
    Narrated / Authority of: Aisha

    “If anyone tells you that the Messenger of Allah (saw) urinated while standing, do not believe him, for I (always) say him urinating while sitting down.” (Hasan)

    Hadith no: 308  
    Narrated / Authority of: Umar

    “The Messenger of Allah (saw) saw me urinating while standing, and he said: ‘O ‘Umar, do not urinate standing up.’ So I never urinated whilst standing after that.” (Daif)

    Hadith no: 309  
    Narrated / Authority of: Jabir bin Abdullah
    “The Messenger of Allah (saw) forbade us to urinate while standing.” (Daif) I heard Muhammad (SAW) bin Yazid, Abu Abdullah,*say: “I heard Ahmad bin Abdur-Rahman Al-Makhzumi say: Sufyan Ath-Thawri said concerning the Hadith of Aishah - ‘I (always) saw him urinating whilst sitting down’ - a man knows more about that (about such matters) than she.’ Ahmad bin Abdur-Rahman said: ‘It was the custom of the Arabs to urinate while standing up. Do you not see that in the Hadith of Abdur-Rahman bin Hasanah it was said: ‘He sits down to urinate as a woman does.’”** *That is, Ibn Majah. **See no. 346.

    Hadith no: 310  
    Narrated / Authority of: Abdullah bin Abu Qatadah

    “My father told me that he heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) say: ‘When anyone of you urinates, let him not touch his penis with his right hand nor clean himself with his right hand.’ (Sahih) Another chain with similar wording.

    Hadith no: 311  
    Narrated / Authority of: Uqbah bin Suhban
    “I heard ‘Uthman bin ‘Affan say: ‘I never sang a song or told a lie or touched my penis with my right hand after I swore an oath of allegiance to the Messenger of Allah (saw) to that effect.’” (Daif)

    Hadith no: 312  
    Narrated / Authority of: Abu Hurairah
    “The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: ‘When anyone of you cleans himself, he should not clean himself with his right hand. Let him clean himself with his left hand.’” (Hasan)

    Hadith no: 313  
    Narrated / Authority of: Abu Hurairah
    The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: ‘I am to you like a father to his son, and I teach you. So when you go to relieve yourselves, do not face the Qiblah or turn your backs towards it.’ He ordered us to use three pebbles, and he forbade us to use dung and bones, and he forbade cleaning oneself with the right hand.” (Hasan)

    Hadith no: 314  
    Narrated / Authority of: Abdullah bin Masud
    “The Messenger of Allah (saw) went to the toilet and said: ‘Bring me three stones.’ So I brought him two stones and a piece of dung. He took the two stones and threw the dung away, saying: ‘It is impure.’” (Sahih)

    Hadith no: 315  
    Narrated / Authority of: Khuzaimah bin Thabit
    “The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: ‘For cleaning yourself you need three stones, no one of them being dung.’” (Daif)

    Hadith no: 316   Report Mistake   Permalink
    Narrated / Authority of:
    Salman said that one of the idolaters said to him, while they were making fun of him: “I see that your companion (the Prophet (saw)) is teaching you everything, even how to relieve yourselves?” He said: “Yes indeed. He has ordered us not to face the Qiblah (prayer direction) nor to clean ourselves with our right hands, and not to be content with anything less than three stones, which are not to include any excrement or bones.” (Sahih)

    yes..yes.. Penisand pebbles.. IDIOTS WRITE NONSENSE IN THE NAME OF PROPHET OF ISLAM  .. not only that some of these rogues of Islam try to reinforce stupid hadith in 21st century...  well read  more bull shit from  junk yard


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #66 - May 05, 2017, 06:18 PM

    I am such a huge fan of yours, yeezevee. Really good to see you back again.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #67 - May 24, 2019, 10:35 AM

    Folks wrote all sorts of stories in the name of Prophet of Islam  Some are good  sayings  .. some are bad and some are ugly   and if we put them   together you have volumes of books with tons of gibberish., And unfortunately in 20th century and even in 21st century THE TALKATIVE ROGUES OF ISLAM.. the mullahs and imams brain washed millions of children with tons of nonsense  and ruined many many bright minds that are born in Islam for no fault of theirs .. The result is we have grown up good Muslim folks still walking like zombies taking their children to cure their schizophrenia related problems with these idiots as you can see 100s of videos  such as


    this is such horrible nonsense which is their hadith volumes and taxes the lives of millions of people , ruins lives of 1000s of them and those who are related to such unfortunate folks  across the globe..

    But today  some one sent me  a wonderful saying from hadith...  so let me share that here..

    It is obviously great saying  and I am searching for its authenticity .. I AM STILL SEARCHING IN THE VOLUMES HADITH BOOKS..

    off course as I operate on different basic principle "


    So using ink, pen, paper(now we can do without them) one can write shit and sell it as scholars discourse .. And and if we have the power to control those who question such sayings such nonsense can be sold to brainwash folks..

    Anyway that saying is a good one..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #68 - May 25, 2019, 04:21 PM

    well on that wonderful saying....

    "Ink of the scholar is mightier than blood of martyr"

    I came to know that not from Islam, not from hadith.,   but from that Paris Magazine   Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack .,  in fact many news papers published numbers of cartoons based on that wonderful saying such as this

    So searching  goggle god/ goddess give a link to  bbc news article  from that funny lady Felicity Morse  which in fact led me back to homegrown Islamic intellectuals  from Pakistan..  the world is round and small.... Cheesy  so  here is that
    The pen, the sword and the Prophet By Felicity Morse

    "The pen is mightier than the sword" is a phrase we have been hearing a lot in the past few days.  The saying trumpets the power of writing and learning over violence since the attacks in Paris it has flooded social media because main targets of the Charlie Hebdo magazine attacks were cartoonists.

    The idea that the pen is mightier than the sword is a phrase repeated throughout history.  The novelist and playwright Edward Bulwer-Lytton was the first to use the exact wording in 1839.

    But a very similar saying is attributed to the Prophet Muhammad, the founder of Islam who Muslims believe is the "messenger from God".

    Islamic expert Akbar Ahmed, former Pakistan high commissioner to the UK, explained that the phrase "the ink of the scholar is holier than the blood of the martyr" is one of the "hadiths" - the key teachings of the Prophet, known as prophetic traditions.

    "But people [today] aren't as aware of this 'Hadith' because, to my horror but not entirely to my surprise, I have discovered a general lack of knowledge," he said.
    He said that the Qur'an, Islam's holy book, has 300 references to "using your mind", adding that the word for "knowledge" features more than any other word apart from "God"...

     Anyways in my defense that i too did not know that saying because   i hardly read hadith except to make fun fools of Islam who use that as  Islamic scripture and often gives  more importance to it than Quran...

    So that  phrase  that the pen is mightier than the sword appears to be often repeated throughout history. And i will continue to inquire the fascinating story of the origins of that wonderful saying that apparently present in one of those zillion sayings((hadith volumes))  of Prophet of Islam....  Muhammad (PBUH)

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #69 - January 30, 2020, 07:47 AM

    A 1900 pages PDF file  ,, that is  Sahih-Bukhari BULLSHIT VOL-1  DOWNLOAD  IT  ..READ IT  BUT  DO NOT USE THE ALL THAT NONSENSE which is there in that volume  in day to day life

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #70 - April 04, 2020, 12:57 PM


      Abu Hurayrah, literally means the merciful man of cat’s daughter.15 His full name is ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Shakhr al-Dawsi al-Yamani. He embraced Islam as he heard the propagation of his friend of village origin, that is, Tufayl ibn ‘Amr al-Dawsi.16  Abu Hurayrah then, migrated to Medina. He came in the night of Khaybar war. He prayed Subh for the first time in Medina under the Imam of Siba‘ ibn ‘Arfatah,17 an envoy of the Prophet during the Prophet waged war in Khaybar

    ........During a period of three years, until the Prophet passed away, Abu Hurayrah took all of his opportunities to accept Hadith said by the Prophet and memorised all events happened at that time. His living was dependently given by the Prophet and other Companions by giving his hand in return. He lived on the veranda of the mosque closed to the house of the Prophet. This space was called al-suffah, so that those who lived there were called ‘ashab al-suffah .......

       ..............Abu Hurayrah is a Companion famously known as the one who was diligent in worship and in memorizing the Qur’an. However, he was not known as a courageous Companion and he did not also courage to tell his opinion to others. He admitted himself as a weak and poor man. Al-Bukhari, sourced from al-A‘raj, says:..............

    Al-Bukhari38 says that 800 (eight hundred) men or more students of Hadith from the Companions and the tabi‘in and shortly after that, narrated Hadith from Abu Hurayrah. They who belong to the generation of tabi‘in are imams (religious leaders) and leading scholars in fiqh (jurisprudence) and scholars of Hadith were also the students of Abu Hurayrah.

    .........  It is a story of Abu Hurayrah, a main witness of the life of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. His truthfulness was being debatable in certain circles, especially in the circle of Shi’ite Muslims. But his role as an eyewitness of the Prophet’s life was astonishing. By his love and loyalty, he was constantly involved in the last three years life of the Prophet, something being a grace for Abu Hurayrah, for there was no other Companion can accompany the Prophet as himself.

    His poverty was the main reason why he could not live like the other Companions, the majority of which were being involved in their businesses or farms. His poverty, then, had placed himself to be a man being asked on the Prophet’s affairs by the other Companions or by the tabi`in living in his age. He became a mediator or the main teller of the Hadith accepted directly from the Prophet. His teachings became an alternative to those who had not opportunities to “hear and see” the Prophet’s teachings and conducts, as their main concern to follow his tradition.

    This way of teaching or narrating Hadith, happened natural and brought about a system of narration (isnad) in Hadith, something which could not be found in any other history of religions in this world.

    Abu Rayyah gives an example how Abu Hurayrah told a lie. It is about a Hadith saying that for whoever wakes up late during fasting while he is in unholy condition, there is no fasting for him at that day. This Hadith was reported by al-Tirmidhi from Abu Hurayrah. This Hadith was opposed by other Companions, and Abu Hurayrah admitted that he got the Hadith from al-Fada1 ibn ‘Abbas, and not directly from the

    From the above story, Abu Rayyah sees that it is clear about dishonesty done by Abu Hurayrah in the name of the Prophet, whereas he did not hear the Hadith from the Prophet. Fortunately, this lie happened in the era of the Prophet, so that the Prophet knew it. But what happened, then, when there was no Prophet, and also no ‘Umar? Here, Abu Hurayrah freely narrated Hadith, so that there are many Hadith narrated by him which are not suitable with the real context of time.

    Well read more at that pdf file  on "He said, I said , you said,  who  said?  hadith stories

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #71 - April 10, 2020, 11:01 AM

    Well read more at that pdf file  on "He said, I said , you said,  who  said?  hadith stories

    So on those words of "He said, I said , you said,  who  said ".. Stupid hadith.,  I must confess that   I INSULTED HADITH SAYINGS ALL THE TIME THROUGH OUT MY LIFE the moment I came out of high school for many reasons., but when I read Quran,   it is a different matter.,  I respected it and  Instead of criticizing Quan out-rightly., I use/used  bit of brain and restrict myself criticizing certain verses in Quan but not whole book.   

    As we know 90% folks living on earth   need some  faith to live their life., So it doesn't matter for me  if Muslims and folks from faiths  want live their lives with their  respective  faiths..... faith sayings ....and faith rituals with simple rule of thumb ., i.e., AS LONG AS THEY USE THAT  GOLDEN RULE in their lives.. And off course Every religious doctrine.. book.. verses must be open to criticism

    Anyways .. the point to write  this post is .,  As I often say.,   "not all Quran verses are bad".,.   same way not all hadih sayings are bad.,",    Although I  Insult hadith saying out rightly and totally reject them ,  one reason being   hadith sayings came to life due to "he said.. you said ..who said "  sayings after 100 or 200 years later from the day Prophet of Islam died.  So when we look in to the actions and words of many many good folks in Islam .. (( 99% woman folks are good., 80% men are wonderful  AND OFTEN THEY ARE SILENT IN TALKING ABOUT ISLAM). they too follow some selective  Quran verses  and they also follow some  hadith sayings ., These two manuals in fact are two legs of Islam hence there is nothing wrong in following the sayings as long as they use that golden rule regulating their actions.

    So we know what Quran is but many know very little about hadith...  and for that reason  let me scribble  a bit on hadith sayings., that is because as I explore early history of Islam 1).  I AM INTERESTED IN EARLIEST HADTIH SAYINGS  and  2). Hadith sayings that are linked  indirectly in Quran verses..

    Hmm Look at this hadith..
    Narrated Ikrima:

    Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet ﷺ said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet ﷺ said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
    Sudan threatens 25 Muslims with death on charges of apostasy


    Anyways hadith.,    WHAT IS HADITH?

    The Hadith is the record of the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). The sayings and conduct of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) constitute the Sunnah.

    The Hadith has come to supplement the Holy Quran as a source of the Islamic religious law. The Hadith is the second pillar after the Quran upon which every Muslim rests his faith. Hadith consists of Mat'n and Isnad. Mat'n means the text of the Hadith, while Isnad means the chain of transmitters to that Hadith.

    The scholars of the Hadith literature divided the Traditions into categories according to the degree of authenticity and reliability, each category had to meet certain criteria.

    The categories are as follows:

    1. Sahih: The genuine Traditions, the authentic ones.

    2. Moothaq: Almost like the Sahih but the narration is not as strong as those of the Sahih.

    3. Hasan: The fair Traditions although inferior in matter of authenticity.

    4. Dha'eef: The weak Traditions which are not so reliable.

    In Shari'ah (Islamic Constitution) deeds and actions are divided into five classes:

    1. Fardh or Wajib: An obligatory duty the omission of which is Islamically punishable.

    2. Mus'tahab: An action which is rewarded, but whose omission is not punishable.

    3. Mu'baah: An action which is permitted but legally is indifferent.

    4. Mak'rooh: An action which is disapproved by the Shari'ah but is not under any penalty.

    5. Haram: An action which is forbidden, and Islamically punishable1.


    1. History of Fabrication:

    a. During Benu Umayya's Rule.

    b. During Benu Abbas' Rule, in particular with the advent of the schools of thought in Islam.

    2. By the year 200 H.: Total of 600,000 Hadiths were in existence, out of which 408,324 Hadith were fabricated Hadiths by 620 forgerers2.

    3. Most Notorious Forgerers: Ibn Jundub, Abu Bukhtari, Ibn Basheer, Abdullah Al-Ansaari, Al-Sindi. Ibn Au'jaa professed before he was hanged that he alone had forged 4,000 Hadiths3.

    4. Reason to Fabricate:

    a. Financial incentive by the Khalifas, for example Mu'awiya awarded Ibn Jundub and others hundreds of thousands of dinars for coming forth with Hadiths that suited him4.

    b. As a means of self-promotion in the government.

    c. In a drive to enhance a particular school of thought.

    d. Fanaticism for a school of thought at the expense of others5.

    5. Al-Qassassoon (The story-tellers): Their operation and major role in the public.

    I have taken all the above stuff  from different sources ., But I am not interested in reading and filtering some  10sof thousands of hadith sayings and analyzing the  bull shit in them .,  So In the next post ((not sure when.,))  I will read through Hadith Qudsi and Hadith sayings that I see in Quran verses.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #72 - April 10, 2020, 01:30 PM

    So Hadith Qudsi., They are just 40 sayings/verse  or whatever you call.,  and they are all over the web., It was supposed told by  the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:  .. those 40 hadiths...., but now let us ask simple Question .

    1). What is the Difference Between a Regular Hadith and a Hadith Qudsi?., Let us ask our Islamic experts ..

    Question:  Assalamualaikum,

    1). I never understood the nature of Hadith Qudsi and how it was different from the “regular” hadiths. Also, the “regular” hadiths are ‘traditions’ and narrations of the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing, saying, and instructing us to do many things.

    2). How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) receive this information from Allah relative to Qur’anic revelation and the Hadith Qudsi?

     Answer:  Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

    I hope you are in the best of health and spirits, insha’Allah.

    A Sacred Narration (al-Hadith al-Qudsi) is a narration (hadith) which, from the perspective of its meaning, is from Allah, the Exalted, and from the perspective of its wording, from the Messenger of God (Allah bless him and give him peace). [Jurjani, al-Ta`rifat]

    The Difference between the Regular Narrations (Hadith) and the Sacred Narrations (al-Hadith al-Qudsi)

    The Sacred Narration (al-Hadith al-Qudsi) is attributed to Allah, Most High, and related from Him. The Messenger of God (Allah bless him and give him peace) would receive the meaning from Allah, by way of inspiration or dream, and then he (Allah bless him and give him peace) would inform his community of this in his own words.

    This is contrary to the remaining narrations (hadith) as the Messenger of God (Allah bless him and give him peace) would not attribute them to His Lord, nor relate them from Him.

    The Difference between the Sacred Narrations (al-Hadith al-Qudsi) and the Qur’an

    There are many differences between the Qur’an and the Sacred Narration (al-Hadith al-Qudsi). Of the most notable of them are the facts that the Qur’an is miraculous in its wording and was revealed by the intermediary of the Angel Gabriel. A Sacred Narration (al-Hadith al-Qudsi), on the other hand, has neither of these qualities.

    Other unique qualities which the Qur’an, alone, possesses are:

    [1] The mass transmission (mutawatir) in all of its words and letters;

    [2] The impermissibility of touching the Qur’an for the one in a state of minor ritual impurity (and reciting it for the one in a state of major ritual impurity);

    [3] The requirement, and specification, of its recital in the prayer;

    [4] It is called the Qur’an;

    [5] It is an act of worship to recite the Qur’an and one is rewarded for each letter;

    The Qur’an’s words, and meanings, are from Allah through manifest revelation; contrary to the narrations (hadith).

    [`Ayni, `Umdat al-Qari Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari; Siraj al-Din, Sharh al-Mandhuma al-Bayquniyya; al-Sayyid Muhammad bin `Alawi, al-Manhal al-Latif fi Usul al-Hadith al-Sharif]

    This is something of what can be said about the difference between the

    Sacred Narration (al-Hadith al-Qudsi) and the Qur’an.

    And Allah knows best.

    Yes .. I am NOT REALLY SURE.,  THAT ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST., but mullah certainly knows the best of Islam.,  anyways there you go that is how it goes ., and that is from Ustadh Tabraze Azam from London 

    Ustadh Tabraze Azam was born and raised in Ipswich, a small town on the east coast of England. He memorized the Qur’an in his youth and has led congregations in tarawih prayers at home and abroad. He earned his Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science and Management from the University of Leicester, serving as the head of the university’s Islamic Society. Shortly thereafter, he moved to Amman, Jordan, to study the Islamic sciences full-time with a variety of distinguished traditional scholars. He is now an experienced teacher himself, answering religious questions regularly, and teaching students of knowledge privately and online. Presently, he is pursuing advanced studies and specialization in Amman where he resides with his wife and children.

    well with that introduction we will go and read Hadith Qudsi

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
  • Mock Them and Move on., Stupid hadith....
     Reply #73 - January 30, 2024, 05:44 AM

    My goodness gracious .... It is impossible to stop this in this internet age

    these two guys from Pakistan and other from India ripping Islam from its roots.   Look at that hadith., apparently that SUCKLING   was in Quran and goat eat that verse.. what a discussion.. well here is that hadith from horse mouth

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
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