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Theme Changer

 Topic: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?

 (Read 15943 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     OP - April 22, 2012, 03:13 AM

    When Mu penetrated her, was she 6-9 y/o?

    I know this's been discussed here n everywhere a lot, Muslims and Apostates.
    ===============

    How abt,

    Narrated Yusuf bin Mahik: I was in the house of Aisha, the mother of the Believers. She said, "This revelation: 'Nay, but the Hour is their appointed time (for their full recompense); and the Hour will be more previous and most bitter' (Koran 54:46) was revealed to Muhammad at Mecca while I was a playful little girl."

    Sahih Bukhari


    Sura 54 (Al-Qamar) was revealed in Mecca, b4 migration to Medina...maybe she was...big enough to handle Mu.

    wt u think?


    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #1 - April 22, 2012, 05:15 AM

    I heard else where she was a robust 17 year old who simply played with dolls.... wacko
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #2 - April 22, 2012, 06:23 AM

    I think there's a thread about this already but Aisha was 6 when she wed and 9 when her marriage was consummated. Don't have the links to guide anyone since being on mobile doesn't allow for it but Aisha says so herself in both Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. Basic Google leads will bring you straight to it.

    "I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want."
    Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #3 - April 22, 2012, 07:20 AM

    Yup. To get around that they have to break out the old "Oh they're only sahih when they're saying things I like, and any of the other bits must be false".

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #4 - April 22, 2012, 03:02 PM

    but if she was playing with dolls at 17, she was committing
    idoltry, and mo condoned it.

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #5 - April 24, 2012, 01:56 PM

    Yup she was definitely a little girl, apologists are desperately trying to cover it up because in modern times that's just shameful. No other respectful prophet did that, only Muhammad indulged in a life of promiscuity with not one but multiple women, of his choosing. Interesting excuses i've heard.

    - girls matured faster in those days
    -Muhammad was a man of his time
    - Muhammad waited until she was 17 to have sex
    - her age at marriage changes from 9 to 15 or 19
    - Muhammad was doing her favor by marrying her.
    - she lived a better life with Muhammad anyway.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #6 - April 24, 2012, 02:12 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  This is the best one ive heard yet! LOL

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFULnq7nYXA&feature=related

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #7 - April 24, 2012, 04:31 PM

    @Sakura: Which is just silly because 1, the average age of child marriages was around the ages of 12-13, in ties with the age of menstruation and Aisha didn't reach hers until about 13. 2, Muslims hop back and forth between him being a man of his time and being a timeless example of Islam, so which is it? 3, Muhammad was dead by the time she reached that age she so that isn't possible unless she was a necrophiliac. 4, her time of marriage was solidified because, again, she said explicitly how old she was and why he only waited three years to have sex with her. 5, she was already leading a decent life before he came and asked Abu Bakr for her and 6, anyone who claims to have read hadith extensively should know how often she expressed her discontent at being being willed by "Allah" to do shit she didn't want to and how stressful being a Co-wife was at the hands of a demanding husband and jealous Co-wives. Not to mention the fact that she could never remarry after his death because his word couldn't be challenged. It's a shame that this much self-deception affects so many people. At last be honest with yourself, y'know?

    "I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want."
    Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #8 - April 25, 2012, 05:37 AM

    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  This is the best one ive heard yet! LOL

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFULnq7nYXA&feature=related


    Jinn That guy jaja is going through serious inner conflicts. check out this video he made just a month or so ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw43akdy-6k&context
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #9 - May 23, 2012, 05:41 PM

    At between 6 and 9, Aisha didn't fully have sexual intercourse and that must have frustrated Muhammad. So, because she was TOO SMALL for sexual intercourse and that her opening too narrow, Muhammad resorted to do Muft'khathat on her. Muft'khathat means thighing. You can find that out on Youtube.
    Muhammad did Muft'khathat also on his little male cousins and perhap his grandson al-Hussein as well.
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #10 - May 24, 2012, 09:51 AM

    Thank you for enlightening us. This is totally news to us.

    Care to post a reliable sources on Muhammad thighing his male cousins and his grandson?

    Much appreciated.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #11 - May 24, 2012, 10:09 AM


    Yeah, I haven't heard that before.

    Not putting it beyond some hadith writers to have written some convoluted and explicit and twisted detail or 'explanation' like that, but want to see the source for it, if it exists at all.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #12 - May 24, 2012, 04:49 PM

    Jinn That guy jaja is going through serious inner conflicts. check out this video he made just a month or so ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw43akdy-6k&context


    wow! How did i miss this gem?  Here is a man who is honest enough to confront
    his own superstitions, and move past them, with a rational, and humble mind, willing to
    see that his own beliefs might be wrong, or should i say, outdated. 
    Good for him!

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #13 - May 24, 2012, 05:43 PM

    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  This is the best one ive heard yet! LOL

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFULnq7nYXA&feature=related


    "Why don't you talk about the fact that a man in his 50s raped a 9 year old girl!"? This guy is full of it. So its fine to rape children as long as you are "nice" to them after that?

    Religion makes you say and condone evil stuff.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #14 - May 24, 2012, 06:36 PM

    Yeah, I haven't heard that before.

    Not putting it beyond some hadith writers to have written some convoluted and explicit and twisted detail or 'explanation' like that, but want to see the source for it, if it exists at all.




    It's a load of crap. Fabricated sources. Really discredits genuine critique of Islam when people make shit up.
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #15 - May 24, 2012, 06:38 PM


    Exactly, there's plenty out there to criticize without making stuff up.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #16 - May 25, 2012, 10:04 PM

    I'm getting quite pissed off at this so-called "debate".

    She was 6 when he married her, and 9 when he consummated the marriage.

    End of.

    .
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #17 - June 23, 2012, 07:10 AM

     :finmad:Even more the better of proving the religion has mislead and brain washed millions to this day. This marriage to a 9 year old is hard to swallow and its the main reason why I began to question islam . All too often I hear different answers such as they used to marry them off early in those days.  finmad Huh?
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #18 - June 23, 2012, 08:03 AM

    He married a 6 year old she was still a kid, he was a pedophile! No arguing about it, it's simple.

    I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

    John Galt.
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #19 - July 12, 2013, 12:18 PM

    Muslim point of View   "Was Prophet Pedophile? Why he married 6 years old AISHA RadiAllahu Anha?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62x8l2MN1C0


    And from Christian side  "Mohammed: The pedophile "prophet" and his confused followers"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwltzzpDHd8

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #20 - July 16, 2013, 10:18 PM

    The issue of Aisha is the check mate against orthodox Islam. The arguments to explain it are as follows and my corresponding retort is as follows.

    1. The hadith are incorrect.

    Well Islam places a high value on what the prophet did. Everything from what foot to use to enter the washroom, to growing a beard, to wearing the niqab, to the 5 pillars, to stoning single mothers... If the sources could not record an age correctly, why should we treat the rest of the hadith with such solidity? It might be theoretically good to think Mo was the perfect man to be used as an example of all time, but if you have no trust worthy record of how he lived... it's a pretty fruitless exercise of everyone just doing what they think mo did.

    2.  It was common back then.  This point sounds convincing to many. Times were different. It was common to wed young girls.
    Well if that is true... then why are other things not 'different now'. Maybe back then it was okay for women to wear niqab/hijab, but it is not needed today. Maybe back then, it was okay to do islamic inheritance, grow bears, pray 5 times a day, not drink alcohol... but today, it is okay.
    More importantly, this make mo sound more like a common man than someone wishing to be an example to everyone for all time.
    If the message with respect to marriage was to marry a mature women based on her own choice, then he should have set the example, but picking wives of reasonable age who had the choice to marry him. Instead he chose children and captured women Tongue

    3. Mo/Aisha was special.
    Again, this goes back to the problem of using mo as an example for all of man kind forever. How are we to know which actions mo was doing because he was special and which we should follow his example on? There is nothing in the hadiths to show he thought this marriage to aisha was special or only to be sanctioned to him.

    4. Mo was not a perfect man.
    Well good... then why the hell should I follow much of what he did in the hadith. This is the end of sunni islam.
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #21 - July 16, 2013, 10:55 PM

    Quote
    The issue of Aisha is the check mate against orthodox Islam.


    It is. But there are so many checkmates. Its remarkable how many checkmates there are.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #22 - July 16, 2013, 11:41 PM

    He'd have to be a little bit of a nonce just to get a hard on.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #23 - July 17, 2013, 03:55 AM

    The issue of Aisha is the check mate against orthodox Islam.


    No it isn't.

    The arguments to explain it are as follows and my corresponding retort is as follows.

    1. The hadith are incorrect.

    Well Islam places a high value on what the prophet did. Everything from what foot to use to enter the washroom, to growing a beard, to wearing the niqab, to the 5 pillars, to stoning single mothers... If the sources could not record an age correctly, why should we treat the rest of the hadith with such solidity? It might be theoretically good to think Mo was the perfect man to be used as an example of all time, but if you have no trust worthy record of how he lived... it's a pretty fruitless exercise of everyone just doing what they think mo did.


    The hadith are correct because the chains of narration are almost certainly authentic. In addition, Aisha's age, or marriage, for that matter, is mentioned in all 6 collections (or four of them, at the very least). I'd consult sunnah.com but I can't muster the motivation to use their terribly inefficient interface at 5 AM.

    2.  It was common back then.  This point sounds convincing to many. Times were different. It was common to wed young girls.
    Well if that is true... then why are other things not 'different now'. Maybe back then it was okay for women to wear niqab/hijab, but it is not needed today. Maybe back then, it was okay to do islamic inheritance, grow bears, pray 5 times a day, not drink alcohol... but today, it is okay.
    More importantly, this make mo sound more like a common man than someone wishing to be an example to everyone for all time.
    If the message with respect to marriage was to marry a mature women based on her own choice, then he should have set the example, but picking wives of reasonable age who had the choice to marry him. Instead he chose children and captured women Tongue


    You're looking at this from a post-christian sex angle. I agree with you, but the issue is moot for any serious muslim scholar or jurist because sex isn't seen as a corrupting, dominant or immoral act — I'd go so far as to say that an ideal orthodox muslim would approve of sex education as early as possible for young children. Also remember that islam is psychologically predicated on a kind of desire to access the feminine, an envy, if you wish. The woman is angelic, and she must remain that way. And I am her vessel to the upholding of divine perfection.

    3. Mo/Aisha was special.
    Again, this goes back to the problem of using mo as an example for all of man kind forever. How are we to know which actions mo was doing because he was special and which we should follow his example on? There is nothing in the hadiths to show he thought this marriage to aisha was special or only to be sanctioned to him.


    See previous point re: femininity.

    4. Mo was not a perfect man.
    Well good... then why the hell should I follow much of what he did in the hadith. This is the end of sunni islam.


    This gets complicated. We have to start defining perfect morality. I am not going to reify abstracts again. You can troll through my posts if you so wish. Smiley
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #24 - July 17, 2013, 02:48 PM

    ^ What exactly are you saying? Huh?
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #25 - July 17, 2013, 02:56 PM

    That you are incoherent, dear Alethia?
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #26 - July 17, 2013, 03:00 PM

    I'm sure it's not the first time, and it's definitely not going to be the last time that someone does not get what schizo is trying to say.
    Someone should make a reverse thesaurus for him, where convoluted, long winded and obscure words are given with their everyday, easy to understand equivalent.
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #27 - July 17, 2013, 03:09 PM

    Praxis — praxis. Hardly convoluted. I'm no physicist, after all.
  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #28 - July 17, 2013, 07:37 PM

    This gets complicated. We have to start defining perfect morality. I am not going to reify abstracts again. You can troll through my posts if you so wish. Smiley


    Yes, trolling can be fun for some.

    Morality is up to each person. I was stating people's reason's for explaining the issue of Aisha as it conflicts with their current morality and how such reasons ultimately conflict with the orthodox view of Islam. That being Sunni Islam. But most forms of popular Islam are also there.
    In that, you won't find too many Muslims who would think it moral to marry their 6 year old daughter to a 50 year old man.
    This is especially true of those in the West, but even many in less developed nations.

    "Also remember that islam is psychologically predicated on a kind of desire to access the feminine, an envy, if you wish. The woman is angelic, and she must remain that way. And I am her vessel to the upholding of divine perfection."

    Sounds very nice, but there's very little in the way of Islamic evidence to support this.  I don't doubt some scholar out there makes this statement as a means of explaining everything, especially within a modern context. But that is certainly not held up to evidence within the hadith or culture.

    The woman is corrupt in Islam as she is in old school Christianity.
    There are plenty of recognized hadiths that talk about more women being in hell, corruption, ungrateful... There's also access to sex slaves...
    A man has rights over the woman. A woman has the right to be clothed and fed by the man.
    Orthodox Islam is a situation of rights and responsibilities and not much else in these respects.

    Now granted, if you find a Muslim who says it is right and just that they should marry their 6 year old daughter to a 50 year old man, there is no conflict. They would be a pedophile and immoral by the standards of most people today.
    It would go against all empirical evidence regarding the behavior of men and women in general.
    But their views would be consistent I suppose.

    But that perverted intellectual was not the target of my original post.


  • Aisha wasn't a Kiddo?
     Reply #29 - July 17, 2013, 08:10 PM

    Yes, trolling can be fun for some.

    Morality is up to each person. I was stating people's reason's for explaining the issue of Aisha as it conflicts with their current morality and how such reasons ultimately conflict with the orthodox view of Islam. That being Sunni Islam. But most forms of popular Islam are also there.
    In that, you won't find too many Muslims who would think it moral to marry their 6 year old daughter to a 50 year old man.
    This is especially true of those in the West, but even many in less developed nations.


    I meant in terms of determinism.

    "Also remember that islam is psychologically predicated on a kind of desire to access the feminine, an envy, if you wish. The woman is angelic, and she must remain that way. And I am her vessel to the upholding of divine perfection."

    Sounds very nice, but there's very little in the way of Islamic evidence to support this.  I don't doubt some scholar out there makes this statement as a means of explaining everything, especially within a modern context. But that is certainly not held up to evidence within the hadith or culture.

    The woman is corrupt in Islam as she is in old school Christianity.
    There are plenty of recognized hadiths that talk about more women being in hell, corruption, ungrateful... There's also access to sex slaves...
    A man has rights over the woman. A woman has the right to be clothed and fed by the man.
    Orthodox Islam is a situation of rights and responsibilities and not much else in these respects.


    You misunderstand. It is the man who desires to be feminine. But he knows that he can and never will attain the perfection of femininity. By perfection I mean uncorrupt innocence that he perceives (if only for a temporary instant). It's sheer romanticisation. Hence islam's repression and demonisation. Hence masculinisation. We could go all psychoanalysis and link Ishmael to this insofar as he was the child of the servant, a woman seen as untainted for that very instance of the divine  intercourse but I'm hungry. You can read up on it.

    Nietzschean Ressentiment, Freud, Lacan.
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