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Theme Changer

 Topic: Female grooming and beautification

 (Read 21537 times)
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  • Female grooming and beautification
     OP - April 09, 2012, 01:26 PM
    Ladies how comfortable with the idea that you HAVE to shave your legs, arm pits, bikini lines (and other hairy bits) all in the name of fitting socities expectations of you these days?

    Men, how comfortable are you IMPOSING those expectations on your woman?

    I ask because I had a dream last night.  In this dream I was NOT naked in front of a huge crowd, like most public humiliation dreams are meant to go down.  I dreamed I went out in public and forgot to shave my legs and everyone stared and pointed and ridiculed me and I was so ashamed over it.  Like I had committed the worst social faux pas I could have.

    This stood out to me as social enforcing gone seriously seriously wrong. Grin  There was a time in my life in which the state of my legs meant nothing to me.  It frustrates me that if the weather is warm and I haven't shaved my legs yet, I must go and do it before I can stop wearing my jeans.

    If it gets hot for you guys, you just put your shorts on, or put a vest on and who cares about your hairy sweat ridden arm pits right?  you're men, no one is going to say a thing.  

    but if I was to do it, EVERYONE would have something to say.

    I'm still not brave enough or ready enough to go against this stupid status quo, much as I want to, much as I believe we as women should do.  We should make a stand and refuse to do it anymore...........but we won't.  We will just shave and pluck, and smooth to get fucked.  That's it.

    But how about the guys?

    What if your partner made a personal choice that she didn't want to shave her legs or arm pits anymore?  I mean I can almost see the argument about pubes, oral sex etc, but even then I give more props to men like Os, who just don't fucking care about stupid things like that.

    But what does her having shaved legs really mean in the long run?

    Could you stand against society sniggering at your missus because she is making a stand?  or would you crumble and beg her to shave, or leave her for someone who does shave?  Grin



    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #1 - April 09, 2012, 01:35 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 01:26 PM
     I mean I can almost see the argument about pubes, oral sex etc, but even then I give more props to men like Os, who just don't fucking care about stupid things like that.

    So Aussies don't go down?


    As for imposing expectations, that's a silly thing to try. It cuts both ways, though. She says how she likes me. I say how I like her. We meet half way.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #2 - April 09, 2012, 01:41 PM
    In fairness, while society expects more of you in this regard unfortunately, you are also the ones who get to choose from men, very few men have the power to pick and choose women, but most women will find that they have attention from many men.

    It's like a package deal I think. 

    Anyway, if I had a gf who didn't want to do any of that stuff, I would support her I suppose? Although I would feel that since relationships are a compromise we would both have reasonable expectations of each other as part of an agreement, and I would hold my end up as long as should would do the same.
    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #3 - April 09, 2012, 01:42 PM
    Quote from: David on April 09, 2012, 01:35 PM
    So Aussies don't go down?


    More like Os doesn't care about pubes getting in his mouth, which is what I call a real man to be fair.  None of that namby pamby "OMG, a pube in my mouth" since it sounds so much like "OMG I broke a nail". 

    Quote
    As for imposing expectations, that's a silly thing to try. It cuts both ways, though. She says how she likes me. I say how I like her. We meet half way.



    I agree, but I'm asking more about how much external pressure will make it narrow down to leg and arm pit shaving.

    What if she has no real expectation off you other than you be washed?  but your halfway = you washing in trade for her shaving, which is a far more annoying task and for some women, something has to happen as often as a beard on a hairy man must be shaved.

    Brown girls can't even have hair removal by lazer since it will leave pigmentation change, so it's a no go for us 'swarthy' maidens.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #4 - April 09, 2012, 01:45 PM
    Quote from: Sprout on April 09, 2012, 01:41 PM
    In fairness, while society expects more of you in this regard unfortunately, you are also the ones who get to choose from men, very few men have the power to pick and choose women, but most women will find that they have attention from many men.


    Meh, women have a shorter shelf life than men.  You talk about this "men can't pick and choose" forgetting that society relegates women to the shelf from 30 onwards, attention is seriously reduced at this stage, whereas men maintain social desirability for a lot longer.

    Past 30 I have to work even harder to get any attention whatsoever.

    Quote

    It's like a package deal I think. 

    Anyway, if I had a gf who didn't want to do any of that stuff, I would support her I suppose? Although I would feel that since relationships are a compromise we would both have reasonable expectations of each other as part of an agreement, and I would hold my end up as long as should would do the same.



    same question to you then, what if her only expectation was that you be clean?

    I wouldn't do a half way meet if it seemed to be that the meet wasn't equal.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #5 - April 09, 2012, 01:45 PM
    I'm fine with women shaving though but I don't like the idea of extra waxing or waxing in general.. even though I know how much trouble shaving in general is but I'm still a bit creeped out by the idea of women having armpit and leg hair. Quite a few women here have thin hair on their bodies so I don't know but on the other hand some women have a bit more thicker, darker hair. I know I'm being quite the hypocrite and I don't understand why, it just doesn't seem to be responding to reason. Anyway, I don't have anyone to impose this on so I'll worry about it later.
    "I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
    Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
    [Kepler's epitaph]
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #6 - April 09, 2012, 01:48 PM
    ^^ yes, that's what I mean.  You know it's an unreasonable 'expectation' and I do use the term loosely since I am not accusing men of trying to enforce this, if anything more women will insult other women over this matter of leg hair.  And I know it's an unreasonable thing and yet I will still shave and you will still feel slightly creeped out by it.

    Even though it's all so stupid. 

    Crazy world we live in. 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #7 - April 09, 2012, 01:55 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 01:45 PM
    Meh, women have a shorter shelf life than men.  You talk about this "men can't pick and choose" forgetting that society relegates women to the shelf from 30 onwards, attention is seriously reduced at this stage, whereas men maintain social desirability for a lot longer.



    Eligable men maintain social desirability a lot longer, I think the average man who is unmarried at 40 will find it a lot harder to find suitors at that age. Anyway, I see your point. The world is definitely not fair to women, I've never thought it was.

    Quote

    same question to you then, what if her only expectation was that you be clean?

    I wouldn't do a half way meet if it seemed to be that the meet wasn't equal.


    Same as you, if she only expected a little of me I would do the same, but tbf I think most women have more expectations than that, IE cleanliness, fair weight, maintaining attractiveness, maintaining social standing, financial stability etc etc. I've not heard of many girls only expected the guy to be clean and nothing else. Not that this justifies unrealistic expectations on the flip side, but I'm saying most people have a long list of expectations for each other-and I think it should always be fair and balanced.
    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #8 - April 09, 2012, 01:57 PM
    I find most women want to groom themselves. Whether this is because of male pressure is debatable.

    I don't like beards, but shaving is a chore. If I'm away from my beloved I often leave it for a day of two. When we're together I have to shave daily if I want a kiss. Perhaps she should man up and embrace my sandpaper chin.

    My shaving etc comes down to a combination of personal vanity and pleasing her. Same goes for her grooming routine, I think.

  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #9 - April 09, 2012, 02:03 PM
    Quote from: Sprout on April 09, 2012, 01:55 PM
    Eligable men maintain social desirability a lot longer, I think the average man who is unmarried at 40 will find it a lot harder to find suitors at that age. Anyway, I see your point. The world is definitely not fair to women, I've never thought it was.


    I'm not so sure, maybe at 50 I would agree, 40yr old men still nab themselves women half their ages quite often.

    Quote

    Same as you, if she only expected a little of me I would do the same, but tbf I think most women have more expectations than that, IE cleanliness, fair weight, maintaining attractiveness, maintaining social standing, financial stability etc etc. I've not heard of many girls only expected the guy to be clean and nothing else. Not that this justifies unrealistic expectations on the flip side, but I'm saying most people have a long list of expectations for each other-and I think it should always be fair and balanced.


    Fair weight would be - obesity is fucking going to far.  But if I don't want the pressure of knowing my gaining a few pounds is an issue to him, I certainly wouldn't be put off by a few pounds in return.  I trade this for this.

    Same for financial stability, as long as you don't mooch off me, or off the state unless some legitimate reason arises for it, then I trade not farting in front of you.  Grin

    I don't care about social standing, what does that even mean anyway? 

    I see your point though.   Afro

    Quote from: David on April 09, 2012, 01:57 PM
    I find most women want to groom themselves. Whether this is because of male pressure is debatable.

    I don't like beards, but shaving is a chore. If I'm away from my beloved I often leave it for a day of two. When we're together I have to shave daily if I want a kiss. Perhaps she should man up and embrace my sandpaper chin.

    My shaving etc comes down to a combination of personal vanity and pleasing her. Same goes for her grooming routine, I think.




    I trade him shaving with me doing my facial hair.

    I still need something more to trade leg, arm pit, and pube shaving.   Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #10 - April 09, 2012, 02:07 PM
    Never really done anything to please a guy, hopefully I never will.  Smiley
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #11 - April 09, 2012, 02:12 PM
    ^^ I could pm you as to why that's not true. 

    But either way, another point to make is that sure I buy that dress for me, cos I think it looks nice, I die my hair, I do my nails, I wear those heels, because I think it looks nice.

    But if I thought I looked good in a plastic bag, with trampy shoes on, some ghetto chic ripped up shoes that are practically dropping off me.  I could feel good, but I ain't getting no man, and no loving that way.  So it's a double whammy of who it pleases.

    Most girls dress to please themselves without recognising that pleasing themselves far too often requires male approval.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #12 - April 09, 2012, 02:15 PM
    Female grooming and beautification  A thread started by that Berber Queen   who want to kill all the men... ..or at least make them slaves if not kill them.......

    Well I am not sure beautification but you are certainly grooming young females in CEMB to fight all males....  lol.....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #13 - April 09, 2012, 02:16 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on April 09, 2012, 02:07 PM
    Never really done anything to please a guy, hopefully I never will.  Smiley

     There you go.. Why so much hate??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #14 - April 09, 2012, 02:30 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:03 PM
    I trade him shaving with me doing my facial hair.

    I still need something more to trade leg, arm pit, and pube shaving.   Tongue



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85HT4Om6JT4

    Alas, us men just don't have as many flaws to correct as women. Cheesy Cheesy
    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #15 - April 09, 2012, 02:33 PM
    That's just what you fucking think.



    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #16 - April 09, 2012, 02:36 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:12 PM
    ^^ I could pm you as to why that's not true.  


    Please do.  Tongue

    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:12 PM
    But either way, another point to make is that sure I buy that dress for me, cos I think it looks nice, I die my hair, I do my nails, I wear those heels, because I think it looks nice.

    But if I thought I looked good in a plastic bag, with trampy shoes on, some ghetto chic ripped up shoes that are practically dropping off me.  I could feel good, but I ain't getting no man, and no loving that way.  So it's a double whammy of who it pleases.


    The same can be said about men. If men don't dress to please then they won't be getting no women. I think the problem is not dressing to please others or yourself, its women that are willing to go to extremes to please men that is the problem.

    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:12 PM
    Most girls dress to please themselves without recognising that pleasing themselves far too often requires male approval.


    Maybe that's me.  Tongue
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #17 - April 09, 2012, 02:37 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on April 09, 2012, 02:16 PM
    There you go.. Why so much hate??


    I'm not full of hate but I start to hate you when you say I hate, so CAN YOU PLEASE FUCKING STOP?!
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #18 - April 09, 2012, 02:44 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:33 PM
    That's just what you fucking think.



    Hah. Well maybe men just have more demands than women.
    Either way, we can't exactly help what we find attractive.
    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #19 - April 09, 2012, 02:46 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on April 09, 2012, 02:36 PM
    Please do.  Tongue


    I did. Tongue

    Quote

    The same can be said about men. If men don't dress to please then they won't be getting no women. I think the problem is not dressing to please others or yourself, its women that are willing to go to extremes to please men that is the problem.


    Yes, as one of those silly women, I totally agree.

    Why/what is it that drives it to go so far though?

    Now excuse me for being ageist as I say "your age" aphro, but in your extrem early 20's, you haven't really hit how far it can go.

    Right now you are in your height of attractiveness.  You are peaking each day and have yet to hit the other side where your eyes sink in, and your skin starts to slide south on your face, and your hair starts to fall out, and your boobs hit your knees.

    Right now the only battle for beauty you really have is what to wear, what colour lippy, what should you hair be like.

    Maybe a few others it's nose, boobs etc, but I would say the relevance of beauty products is not as important for your age group.

    Face creams that stop wrinkling, do you really care right now?

    Quote

    Maybe that's me.  Tongue


    Maybe that's all of us. Tongue

    Unless we are lesbian or black (who happen to have the least body esteem issues).   cool2
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #20 - April 09, 2012, 03:13 PM
    Quote
    Men, how comfortable are you IMPOSING those expectations on your woman?


    Er..some women do impose expectation on guys Tongue

    -shave the beard and avoid rashes on your chin(actually i do it myself because i dont like feeling of hair on my face)

    -shave your pubes and armpits
    -pedicure
    -wear a nice dress that makes you look respectable instead of wearing t-shirt and jeans as usual.

    -wear a nice perfume to smell good.

    Usually if a guy didnt do any of these,chances are women may not find him attractive.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #21 - April 09, 2012, 03:14 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:46 PM
    Yes, as one of those silly women, I totally agree.

    Why/what is it that drives it to go so far though?


    We let emotions take over and stop thinking like rational beings?  wacko

    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:46 PM
    Now excuse me for being ageist as I say "your age" aphro, but in your extrem early 20's, you haven't really hit how far it can go.

    Right now you are in your height of attractiveness.  You are peaking each day and have yet to hit the other side where your eyes sink in, and your skin starts to slide south on your face, and your hair starts to fall out, and your boobs hit your knees.

    Right now the only battle for beauty you really have is what to wear, what colour lippy, what should you hair be like.

    Maybe a few others it's nose, boobs etc, but I would say the relevance of beauty products is not as important for your age group.

    Face creams that stop wrinkling, do you really care right now?


    Nope, I don't and that's why I can't really relate, yet.  Tongue

    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 02:46 PM
    Maybe that's all of us. Tongue

    Unless we are lesbian or black (who happen to have the least body esteem issues).   cool2


    lol, I have a gf atm  Tongue The only time I think of guys is when I'm asked who and when I'll be marrying -_-
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #22 - April 09, 2012, 03:16 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 09, 2012, 01:48 PM
    ^^ yes, that's what I mean.  You know it's an unreasonable 'expectation' and I do use the term loosely since I am not accusing men of trying to enforce this, if anything more women will insult other women over this matter of leg hair.  And I know it's an unreasonable thing and yet I will still shave and you will still feel slightly creeped out by it.

    Even though it's all so stupid.  

    Crazy world we live in.  


    uh about that.. I don't feel creeped out about the shaving part but when it isn't shaved, I feel a bit odd. One of my lesbian friends decided not to shave her legs and I didn't really jump up or anything but I just felt quite odd and there was this half-greek 'friend' of mine who I was staying at and I didn't mind her arms not being shaved or waxed but the legs, I don't know why they just can't be beared right now and I don't want to impose anything either.
    "I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
    Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
    [Kepler's epitaph]
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #23 - April 09, 2012, 03:31 PM
    Quote from: Cato on April 09, 2012, 03:13 PM
    Er..some women do impose expectation on guys Tongue

    -shave the beard and avoid rashes on your chin(actually i do it myself because i dont like feeling of hair on my face)


    You know, the only thing I expect out of facial hair on a man, is that he knows how to kiss properly when he has it.

    You can have a face full of stubble, this isn't a problem.  But I have kissed some guys who rub you so raw with their facial hair that I have actually lost skin and had sore cheeks for days, and I have been with guys who know how to kiss in a way that doesn't squish that razor sharp hair into my face.

    Second, notice how I said RAZOR sharp.  Once a beard has grown past a certain point, it doesn't hurt my face at all.  It's soft and bristly, but hardly the skin ripper of the terrible kisser.

    On the other hand my leg hair (should I choose to keep it) is only prickly when it grows back due to shaving, if left it won't grow past a certain point (whereas a beard will).  They don't feel bad on the skin either.

    Quote

    -shave your pubes and armpits


    Nope.  Not for me.  I am actually semi turned off by a full shave on a man's pubes, don't mind if you trim, but like Os, don't care if you don't.  Grin

    As to arm pits, I have no reaction, so it doesn't matter to me.

    Quote


    -pedicure


    No, just keep them clean and trim them short.  You can be sure I don't waste my time on pedicures and manicures.  Sometimes I colour my nails cos I'm bored, but mostly I cut my nails short and wear nothing on them.  Just keep it clean.

    Quote
    -wear a nice dress that makes you look respectable instead of wearing t-shirt and jeans as usual.


    Nope.  Not really an issue.  I like jeans on a man.  I do like suits though. but I'm trading a sexy dress for that. 

    Quote
    -wear a nice perfume to smell good.


    Means nothing to me.  Just stay clean and you will smell fine as you are.

    Quote
    Usually if a guy didnt do any of these,chances are women may not find him attractive.



    Nah, I would still find him attractive, as long as he is clean, can make me laugh etc, and has a fashion sense that I find appealing (have no idea what is up with the skinny jeans low rider look in the US Grin  penguins don't do it for me) then all the rest is his personal choice.

    he won't be lambasted for it in public either.  Not really.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #24 - April 09, 2012, 03:38 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on April 09, 2012, 03:14 PM
    We let emotions take over and stop thinking like rational beings?  wacko


    Yep.  And even now, knowing that it's not rational, I am still more emotional than rational.

    I still wish somehow £5000 would fall into my lap right now so that I can go be emotional at the surgeons.  Grin

    Quote

    Nope, I don't and that's why I can't really relate, yet.  Tongue


    Wait til the "youth envy" kicks in.  Lmao

    That one was a shocker.

    I found myself looking at some girls thinking "wtf, look at how skanky you are dressed" and then laughing at myself as I walked off because I was young once.......and then realising that I must be jealous and now finally understanding why old ladies hated me once too.  Grin

    Insecurity is hilarious.   wacko

    Quote

    lol, I have a gf atm  Tongue The only time I think of guys is when I'm asked who and when I'll be marrying -_-


    Nice nice.   dance  I hope you are having a blast with her. 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #25 - April 09, 2012, 03:41 PM
    Quote from: mchawking on April 09, 2012, 03:16 PM
    uh about that.. I don't feel creeped out about the shaving part but when it isn't shaved, I feel a bit odd. One of my lesbian friends decided not to shave her legs and I didn't really jump up or anything but I just felt quite odd and there was this half-greek 'friend' of mine who I was staying at and I didn't mind her arms not being shaved or waxed but the legs, I don't know why they just can't be beared right now and I don't want to impose anything either.


    No, I understood that.  That is what I meant, that I will shave and you will be creeped out when women don't shave.

    not really creeped out, I get what you mean.  It's more that you are having to adjust an expectation, one that you never really think of, and when you do it is uncomfortable since it's a process and one that takes more than being exposed to it occasionally.   yes
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #26 - April 09, 2012, 03:47 PM
    I'm fine with not having shaved legs and arms, as long as you don't have a lot of hair in the first place, but that applies to guys too.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #27 - April 09, 2012, 03:53 PM
    when you say shaved arms, you mean arm pits or actual arms?

    I've never shaved my arms.

    is that an expectation I missed?  Grin

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #28 - April 09, 2012, 03:54 PM
    I don't understand why it matters what some random guy finds attractive, but I mean, if you MARRIED someone, shouldn't you try to make him happy? :S
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: Female grooming and beautification
     Reply #29 - April 09, 2012, 03:55 PM
    Shouldn't he also try to make you happy?

    What if it makes you unhappy shaving?

    Who wins? 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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