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 Topic: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians

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  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #30 - October 05, 2011, 12:37 PM

    Yes there are some changed and added to manuscripts. It is not difficult to know that fact. So what. There are the older manuscripts that are not changed to compare to  know about the changes. To think that all manuscripts are corrupt and useless because there some with changes would be like saying ALL money in the world is useless because there is SOME conterfeit money in the world. 

    So it is faulity reasoning to look at some manuscripts that are not as they should be and then reject all others. If that is the standard of evidence you want to use every single scientific fact (or any subject) is rejectable on the ground that there HAS BEEN science error and quackary. I don't it's a good arguement to say because there is some wrong information then all the information  mut be rejected. Some wrong information exist in field of study, you've just got to know it's there.

    I'm sure want you are suggesting is found some where on the beloved faulacy thread.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #31 - October 05, 2011, 12:54 PM

    Yes there are some changed and added to manuscripts. It is not difficult to know that fact. So what.


    So your claim that the bible is unaltered is false.


    There are the older manuscripts that are not changed to compare to  know about the changes. To think that all manuscripts are corrupt and useless because there some with changes would be like saying ALL money in the world is useless because there is SOME conterfeit money in the world. 


    Analogies are rubbish, let's stick with the real subject.  If the bible contains man made text, how can you objectively tell which is which, and why couldn't god choose a better method for providing us with a message, a method which cannot be corrupted by humans?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #32 - October 05, 2011, 01:13 PM

    lynna

    im sure in christianity you are eternally damned to hell if u ever deny the existence of the holy spirit...that's the only unforgivable sin..




    Hi Serpentofeden,

    Many holding to a form Christianity claim that some are damned to eternal torment in hell for any number of reasons.

    I also have been having another conversation on a thread  called Hell, etc. (Christian version). I would argue with scriptual evidence that there is no torment after death if you are interested in that topic please go there.

    Yes, there is an unforgivable some what more then what you suggest is involved in commiting it and the result would be the second death from which there is no reserrection. I would invite any additional conversation on this topic also occur on the thread Hell etc. (Christian version).

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #33 - October 05, 2011, 01:38 PM

    No. Because the Mosiac Law was to make sin manifest or perhaps better said the tutor leading to the Messiah. Once the Messiah's death occurred that Law was fulfilled. The greater law of the Messiah was in place i.e. on these two things the whole Law hangs. So the Jewish system of things the Temple and every thing ended or else the death of Jesus would have been for not.

    Very short answer for alot of information but I have to get ready to go some place today. I hope to get back to you soon if you have additional concern.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #34 - October 05, 2011, 01:39 PM

    How was it "fulfilled"?  Where in the bible does it say that once Jesus has died there is no longer any need to stone people for adultery?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #35 - October 05, 2011, 02:20 PM

    Are you a christian? If yes, please tell me what exactly interested you in this forum?


    Yes, I am a Christian, have been the whole two years I've been posting here. Did it just now start to worry you Muddy? Worried about having some one around who thinks different then you?

    I've learned alot of interesting stuff here.
     
    I've had some nice conversations with some kind and insightful people.

    I've found out that there are as many people who blindly follow atheism as there are people who blindly follow religion.

    I have discovered people of all walks of life and backgrounds seeking to understand and come to peace with the diffculties of life, relationships and family.

    I've shared the very human joys of people far away from me in distance and thought which has brought us closer together.

    I've been very open about who I am and what my history is. It would not be hard to read my posts, all of them if it really worried you, and know what my interests here are.

    May I ask: What are you doing here?

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #36 - October 05, 2011, 02:22 PM

    I've found out that there are as many people who blindly follow atheism as there are people who blindly follow religion.


    This is exactly what I tell people when they tell me "I used to be an atheist" as if their claim gives them some kind of credibility.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #37 - October 05, 2011, 05:57 PM

    Yes, I am a Christian, have been the whole two years I've been posting here. Did it just now start to worry you Muddy? Worried about having some one around who thinks different then you?

    I've learned alot of interesting stuff here.
     
    I've had some nice conversations with some kind and insightful people.

    I've found out that there are as many people who blindly follow atheism as there are people who blindly follow religion.

    I have discovered people of all walks of life and backgrounds seeking to understand and come to peace with the diffculties of life, relationships and family.

    I've shared the very human joys of people far away from me in distance and thought which has brought us closer together.

    I've been very open about who I am and what my history is. It would not be hard to read my posts, all of them if it really worried you, and know what my interests here are.

    May I ask: What are you doing here?



    Kinda defensive there.

    fuck you
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #38 - October 07, 2011, 10:34 PM

    How was it "fulfilled"?  Where in the bible does it say that once Jesus has died there is no longer any need to stone people for adultery?


    Hi TheRationalizer,
    Thank you for the question.

    There would be a couple of lines of proof here. The easiest would be to go to the account you refer to in which Jesus did not stone the woman for adultery. Then ask you to give proof that Christians should stone any one in light of the fact that the head of Congregation did not in this account or any other ever stone any one. Nor did Jesus ever give instructions on how or why any stoning should take place in the Christian Congregation. This indeed would be an oversight of instruction would it not?

    So really proof is on you.

    However, I'll give you some scriptures to start out a conversation about why stoning is not part of Christianty.

    The purpose of the Mosaic Law.

    Galatians 3:24 Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to the Christ, that we might be declared rightious due to faith. 25 But now that faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.

    So, Christians are not under the tutor, or the Law, that lead to Christ. It was the Law and not Christ that gave instructions about stoning, therefore stoning is not part of Christianity. Stoning was part of the Mosaic Law Covenant.

    Was the Mosaic Law Covenant suppose to be forever.

    Hebrew 8:7 For if the first covenvant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second; 8 for he does find fault with people when he says: "'Look! There are days coming,' says Jevovah, 'and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenvant: 9 not according to the covenvant I made with there forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt...

    Hebrews 8:9 is quoting Jeremiah 31:31 one of the places it was prophesied that the Mosaic Law Covenvant would been replaced with another. When it was all then the things of that arrangement had finished their purpose.

    From Genesis 3:15 it was prophesied that the Messiah would be the means to fulfill Gods purpose for the earth and mankind. So we could actually start there with the conversation that stoning was only a temporary arrangement but would be a rather long and complex route taking in many side subjects.

    So is that enough places to start with?

    Until next time, be safe.

     parrot  love this parrot parrot


    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #39 - October 08, 2011, 07:37 AM

    Are you referring to the verse where Jesus says "Let he without sin cast the first stone"?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #40 - October 08, 2011, 12:14 PM

    Are you referring to the verse where Jesus says "Let he without sin cast the first stone"?


    Say what?

    No.

    I'll have to look for a scholars reference on those exact words because it is my thought they are not in the most reliable manuscripts. Anyhow what I was talking about was  any place in the Greek Scrpiture where an event occurred that Jesus could have stoned a person:
    -Did he stone the person (who was guilty under the Mosaic Law or anyone for that matter) and give his disciples instructions on how stoning would continue to be done in the Christian Congregation.
    No such event took place. Jesus as head (or leader) of the Christian Congregation would have given instructions on stoning if he had wanted it to be part of the Christian arrangement.

    That was point one for why stoning is not part of the Christian arrangment.

    Point two is information from Hebrew 8 and Jeremiah 31:31 that the Mosaic Law would not be in effect after Jesus' death on the torture stake and resurrection. So, since Christians are not under the Mosaic Law they would not need to do exactly as that law system sets forth i.e. that is why Christians should not stone people for adultery.

    Why do you think they, Christians, should stone people? What Biblical evidence do you have for your opinion?
     

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #41 - October 08, 2011, 12:19 PM

    Jews stoned people, I just don't see why the law would change unless god changed it.

    Didn't Jesus say that he has not come to change a single letter of the law?

    And how does your claim mean that Christians can eat bacon sandwiches?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #42 - October 08, 2011, 12:54 PM

    Jews stoned people, I just don't see why the law would change unless god changed it.


    Jesus stoned people? Please give a reference in the Bible.

    God did change it. Please look at point two.

    Quote from: TheRationalizer
    Didn't Jesus say that he has not come to change a single letter of the law?


    That same verses says that Jesus came to fulfil the Law. I'm not sure, didn't I post that already. I'll check later today when I'm acually up. If it's not posted I'll do so.

    Quote from: TheRationalizer
    And how does your claim mean that Christians can eat bacon sandwiches?


    Exact same thing. Did you read Hebrew 8? It says not under Law  under faith does it not?

    There are more scriptures that  show the Mosaic Law wa tempoary there were men and women of faith acceptable to God before it and after it.

    Right now I am only awake becuse my seizure alert dog woke me to take my medicine and call some one that I'm having trouble. So sorry I'm not going to talk about real complex topics right now.
    If you'll please be understanding

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #43 - October 08, 2011, 02:22 PM

    Jesus stoned people? Please give a reference in the Bible.


    No, I said "Jews stoned people."


    God did change it. Please look at point two.


    So we can now break the 10 commandments?  If not, why can we break the commandments most people haven't heard of but not the 10 that (some) people have?


    Hebrew 8:7 For if the first covenvant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second;


    So the first laws had faults in them?

    That same verses says that Jesus came to fulfil the Law. I'm not sure, didn't I post that already. I'll check later today when I'm acually up. If it's not posted I'll do so.


    I was referring to things such as these:
    “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

    “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

    “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)


    There are more scriptures that  show the Mosaic Law wa tempoary there were men and women of faith acceptable to God before it and after it.


    And yet Jesus himself said the opposite, that the not even a single letter of the law will be changed.  So on a silly insignificant point....why were pigs too unclean to eat, and then Jesus died on the cross and made bacon sandwiches okay to eat, yet didn't change a single letter of the law.



    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #44 - October 08, 2011, 07:15 PM




    No, I said "Jews stoned people."


    Yes, I just realized you had said Jews not Jesus, I'm sorry I had misse understood.

    Quote from: TheRationalizer link=topic14326.msg515137#msg515137 date=1318083737
    So we can now break the 10 commandments?  If not, why can we break the commandments most people haven't heard of but not the 10 that (some) people have?


    No, not exactly because Christians are under the greater Law not the Mosaic Law which was fulfilled not broken. Jesus instructed has disciples that the whole law could be explained in two principles.

    Luke 10:27 In answer he said "'You must love Jehovah your God with whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind,' and,'your neighbor as yourself.''

    So, when Christians think to do something they would have to consider how that activity would be seen not in light of the Mosaic Law but in faith in God.

    Quote from: TheRationalizer link=topic14326.msg515137#msg515137 date= 1318083737
    So the first laws had faults in them?


    Fault is the fact that those laws were temporary.

    Quote from: TheRationalizer link=topic14326.msg51537#msg515137 date= 1318083737
    I was referring to things such as these:
    “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

    “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

    “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)


    And yet Jesus himself said the opposite, that the not even a single letter of the law will be changed.  So on a silly insignificant point....why were pigs too unclean to eat, and then Jesus died on the cross and made bacon sandwiches okay to eat, yet didn't change a single letter of the law.




    Said the oppisite of what?

    Because the Mosaic Law finished its purpose does not mean it was changed or passed away or made invalid.

    Look at what it says at Matthew 5:17 Do not tink I came to destroy the Law or Prophets. I come not to distory, but to  fulfill. 

    Right before the verses you posted it says exactly the point I want to show that Jesus' coming and death on the torture stake fulfilled the Law. Look at the verses you posted.  The words "not a dot will pass the law until all is accomplished" perhap are the same as in my translation that say "...pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place..." That of course seems to me to be reasonable indication that a time frame for changing events to be involved.

    No part of the Law is made invalid by the fact the its purpose was for an appointed length of time so Luke 16:17 is absolutely correct. To confirm my point that the law was for a certain length of time please look at the verse just before the one you posted.

    Luke 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then onthe kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it.

    As regards Jonn 7:19 Jesus is speaking to the religious leaders of his day prior to his death so the Law was still in effect. Also playing to to that conversation was the fact that those religious leader leaders failed to reconnise Jesus for who he is. Thus showing they really did not understand the importance of the Law and Prophets.
     

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #45 - October 09, 2011, 12:08 PM

    Sorry, but I am still confused.

    So the only laws Christians need to now abide by are
    1: Love god
    2: Love your neighbour as yourself

    What about not killing, or stealing, or committing adultery, or coveting your neighbours ox?  Are you now allowed to work on the Sabbath? Are you allowed to eat Bacon and shell fish?


    -Killing
    As in randomly killing people?
    This would not be allowed. It is covered under love your neighbor as your self. You wouldn't kill yourself would you? Well not under normal circumstances any how, so you would not kill your neighbor. Mental ill a situation in which a person might under take to kill themself is not normal so can not be used as a reason to kill another person. War also is not a reason to kill people because it does conflict with both love of neighor and love of God.
    -Stealing
    Stealing is not allow, it conficts with love of neighbor. Would you steal from some one you loved? Would you want some one to steal what things you worked hard for? I think your answer will be no to both those qustions so would all peoples
    so it would be unloving to steal.
    -Committing adultery
    Committing adultery is not allowed. Would you want some one else to have sex with your wife? Hummm...perhaps you wouldn't mind? I hear that there are married people that really don't mind even enjoy that they and their spouse has sex with others. However many people and God feel it is an unloving violation of trust to have sex with some one you're not married to. Broke both laws.

    to be continued

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #46 - October 09, 2011, 12:42 PM

    Sorry, but I am still confused.

    So the only laws Christians need to now abide by are
    1: Love god
    2: Love your neighbour as yourself

    What about not killing, or stealing, or committing adultery, or coveting your neighbours ox?  Are you now allowed to work on the Sabbath? Are you allowed to eat Bacon and shell fish?



    -Coveting your neighbors ox
    Why would you want to covet your neighbors ox? Covet is the problem just go get your own ox or what ever. Is it loving your neighbor to be thinking of ways t get their stuff. Of course not. Get your own stuff enstead of long after someone elses.
    -Work on the Sabbath
    One certian day a week for worship was part of the Mosaic Law. Since that Law is not in effect on Christians there is no restrictions on days of the week to work. However a Christian would want to arrange their secular work so as not to interfer with religious activities.
    -Food restrictions
    Food restrictions were part of the Mosaic Law which is not in effect on Christians.

    I hope this has been a help. If you would like more information let me know.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #47 - October 09, 2011, 07:13 PM

    Egypts refuse issues after slaughtering all their pigs due to swine flu go a long way to explaining why judaism/islam have prohibitions on eating pigs. They both developed in cultures that used pigs to dispose of waste, both food and fecal and these pigs are frequently infested with parasites. Christianity was developed primarily in a culture that did NOT use pig toilets and as such had eaten pork forever.

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #48 - October 09, 2011, 07:41 PM

    Egypts refuse issues after slaughtering all their pigs due to swine flu go a long way to explaining why judaism/islam have prohibitions on eating pigs. They both developed in cultures that used pigs to dispose of waste, both food and fecal and these pigs are frequently infested with parasites. Christianity was developed primarily in a culture that did NOT use pig toilets and as such had eaten pork forever.


    This is a differ issue then TheRationalizer and I are talking about. However yes swine raised in an unclean environment are unsafe to eat where as those raised in a healthy environment would be less likely it have diseases.

    We have been talking about the end of the Mosaic Law at the beginning of the Covenant for a Kingdom.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #49 - October 09, 2011, 07:56 PM

    We have been talking about the end of the Mosaic Law at the beginning of the Covenant for a Kingdom.


    Indeed, and I would like to try to understand why Jesus dying on a cross made it okay to eat bacon *and* shell fish.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #50 - October 09, 2011, 08:14 PM

    This is a differ issue then TheRationalizer and I are talking about. However yes swine raised in an unclean environment are unsafe to eat where as those raised in a healthy environment would be less likely it have diseases.

    We have been talking about the end of the Mosaic Law at the beginning of the Covenant for a Kingdom.


    Just islam took aspects of all the local religions and practices to make the new religion more palatble to those it was trying to convert, so did christianity before it. This is the reason behind the removal of dietary laws that conflicted heavily with existing customs in the roman empire before it. It's easier to convince people to join a new religion if they don't have to change their entire lifestyle to do so.

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #51 - October 09, 2011, 08:23 PM

    No, it really has not been a help at all.

    People could not eat shrimps or bacon, then Jesus died and now they can - whilst at work on the Sabbath.  How does that make sense?  Why would the death of Jesus have *any* impact on whether or not you can eat a bacon sandwich?  How does a pig go from being unclean to being clean?  Why wouldn't god just make pigs clean to start with rather than putting them into a group of constraints which means that Jesus needs to die in order to make it possible to eat them?


    -So your main problem is with what food to eat?
    If it really bothers a person to eat some food or another they don't HAVE TO eat it. It just can't BE INFLICTED on another as God's law, but is only a pesonal choice.
    -The primary purpose of Jesus death was not to change food regulations. Jesus death on the torture stake fulfilled prophecy. Hebrew 8, Jeremiah 31:31, and the other we have looked at that end the Mosaic Law. Before the Mosaic Law the food restrictions of that law did not exist and then they did when the Law began. So what?

    Well, not really 'So what'. How a person reacts to instruction and their wellingness to see and understand the purpose says alot about that person.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #52 - October 09, 2011, 08:31 PM

    Indeed, and I would like to try to understand why Jesus dying on a cross made it okay to eat bacon *and* shell fish.

    Jesus and his Gospel came to abolish the harsh dietary laws of the Old Testament. Don't you see?
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #53 - October 09, 2011, 08:38 PM

    Just islam took aspects of all the local religions and practices to make the new religion more palatble to those it was trying to convert, so did christianity before it. This is the reason behind the removal of dietary laws that conflicted heavily with existing customs in the roman empire before it. It's easier to convince people to join a new religion if they don't have to change their entire lifestyle to do so.


    Hummm...
    No.
    Not at the point we are talking about. Perhaps after 500 whatever C.E. when Christendom became apostate and polical. Please read the rest of the thread.

    Perhaps some ohr time I'll have some time for the other topic that you suggest.

    until another time.
    Lynna

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #54 - October 09, 2011, 09:19 PM

    If it really bothers a person to eat some food or another they don't HAVE TO eat it.


    It's not about you stopping someone else from eating bacon and shellfish, it's about why you think that it is now okay for people to do so (including yourself I presume.)  How does it make sense that god would prohibit people from eating bacon and shellfish, and then later make it okay to eat them because Jesus was crucified?

    What does Jesus dying on a cross have to do with bacon and shellfish, and why prohibit it in the first place if it was okay to eat?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #55 - October 09, 2011, 11:07 PM

    It's not about you stopping someone else from eating bacon and shellfish, it's about why you think that it is now okay for people to do so (including yourself I presume.)  How does it make sense that god would prohibit people from eating bacon and shellfish, and then later make it okay to eat them because Jesus was crucified?

    What does Jesus dying on a cross have to do with bacon and shellfish, and why prohibit it in the first place if it was okay to eat?


    I have already answered this question.

    However once again Jesus death on the torture stake fulfilled the Mosaic Law so it is no longer in effect. Christians are under another law. That would be: Love God with your whole heart, soul and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. There are none of the Mosaic Law food restriction imposed on Christians. WHICH IS REALLY VERY SECONDARY TO THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF JESUS DEATH.

    Please explain exactly what it is you don't understand.

    Very honestly I don't understand what your problem is.

    It could not possibly be you don't understand the language. You have a greater ablility then I. I have seen many of the things you have done.

    I can't believe it is beyond a thinking persons ability to reason through the account that there was a time before the Mosaic Law when there was not those food restrictions and now after once again there is none.
     
    I really am misunderstanding your question.
    Please try explainning it again.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #56 - October 10, 2011, 01:05 PM

    I am trying to understand the point.  The bible said that pigs were "unclean."  So how did Jesus dying on a cross make them clean?  Either the pigs were clean to start with, or they are unclean now.  Jesus dying on a cross didn't alter the genetic makeup of pigs, or change their life styles.


    Pigs were unclean for the nation of Israel during the period of the Mosaic Law Covenant.

    This did not have to do with the genetic make up of pigs. Nor it have to have to with possible disease conditions in selected pig populations.

    It had to do with obeidence to the Mosaic Law which was part of God's Covenant with the nation of Israel.

    Remember we talked about that Law being the tutor leading to the Christ. Also that it was temporary, that was it's fault.  More correctly it's fault was that it could not accomplish what Jesus sacrific did so it was temporary.

    No imperfect human could have keep every part of the Law. What should have been learned from the Law was the need for God's mercy and need for the perfect sacrific.

    I don't know why God put each individual aspect of the Law in the Law.  I never thought to become so hung up on one aspect of something in the Law. The whole Law was the tutor leading to the Christ, it's purpose is fulfilled as far as a law to live by.

    If you'd like I could do some researh. But then again so could you.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #57 - October 10, 2011, 01:21 PM

    So, all of the following were unclean: Camel, hyrax, rabbit, pig, sea creatures without fins+scales, eagle, vulture, black vulture, red kite, black kite, raven, horned owl, screeched owl, gull, hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, great owl, white owl, desert owl, osprey, stork, heron, hoopoe, bat, flying insects that have four legs (except grasshoppers/crickets/locusts - although I thought they had 6 legs), weasel, rat, great lizard, gecko, monitor lizard, wall lizard, skink, chameleon.

    And then Jesus died, so now they are okay to eat.  Not only that but Jesus didn't make all Jewish law obsolete, the laws which we in the west tend to agree with are still in place (do not kill, do not steal, etc) but the commandment to not work on a Saturday can be safely ignored along with permitting the worship of other gods.

    1: Why ban all that food for no apparent reason.
    2: What is the purpose of killing someone to increase the size of your menu.
    3: Why are two of the ten commandments also okay to ignore, but not the other 8? How can you tell which ones to ignore?
    4: If Jesus repealed all these laws, why in the past were Christians still not suffering a witch to live - were they not sure which laws to enforce?

    It either seems petty on the part of god, or "convenient" on the part of Christians.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #58 - October 10, 2011, 02:11 PM


    ...  Not only that but Jesus didn't make all Jewish law obsolete, the laws which we in the west tend to agree with are still in place (do not kill, do not steal, etc) but the commandment to not work on a Saturday can be safely ignored along with permitting the worship of other gods.

    1: Why ban all that food for no apparent reason.
    2: What is the purpose of killing someone to increase the size of your menu.
    3: Why are two of the ten commandments also okay to ignore, but not the other 8? How can you tell which ones to ignore?
    4: If Jesus repealed all these laws, why in the past were Christians still not suffering a witch to live - were they not sure which laws to enforce?

    It either seems petty on the part of god, or "convenient" on the part of Christians.


    I am not talking to you any more right now about food restrictions. There is nothing else that I personally know about the issue. If you think God was wrong in how he arranged things that is your choice. You can use your freedom of choice have ever you like.

    I do not undersand what you mean by point 2 on your list.

    I don't understand what your great worry is about the 10 Commandments. You might have to have this convrsation with some one else. We've talked about about the two laws.

    Witches believe in a god other then the God of the Bible that is covered by: Love God with your whole heart, soul and mind. So the only thing a Christian would have to do with a Witch is not make them among close friends. Other then that so what it's that persons freedom of choice.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #59 - October 10, 2011, 02:25 PM

    I am not talking to you any more right now about food restrictions.


    Religious people usually don't want to talk about the silly parts of the religions.


    I do not undersand what you mean by point 2 on your list.


    To allow people are more versatile diet Jesus had to die first.


    I don't understand what your great worry is about the 10 Commandments. You might have to have this convrsation with some one else. We've talked about about the two laws.


    Yeah, although it says you can't work on a Saturday (so Jews don't) it is okay for Christians; and because it is acceptable in the west in the 21st century it is okay to tolerate people in the community worshipping the "wrong" god.


    Witches believe in a god other then the God of the Bible that is covered by: Love God with your whole heart, soul and mind. So the only thing a Christian would have to do with a Witch is not make them among close friends.


    Ah, I must have misread.  I thought it said that you should not suffer a witch to live, not "you should not suffer a witch to pop around for a cup of tea and meet your children" - shame those Christians in the past misread it too, all those people burned to death for being witches could have led happier lives.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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