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Theme Changer

 Topic: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France

 (Read 18485 times)
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  • Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     OP - March 19, 2012, 10:08 AM


    Three children amongst the dead. The adult who died was a rabbi.


    updated: four confirmed dead now


    ++++++

    Toulouse shooting: four killed outside Jewish school

    A gunman opened fire in front of a Jewish school in the south-west French city of Toulouse on Monday, killing four people including a father and his two sons, and another child.

    The adult victim was thought to be a rabbi who taught at the school, who died with his three-year-old and six-year-old sons. The fourth victim, aged between eight and 10 years old, was the school principal's daughter, according to Rahamim Sabag, a rabbi who works at the school. Sabag was speaking to Israel's Channel 2 television.

    Witnesses described how the gunman opened fire outside the Ozar Hatorah school, a private Jewish secondary, at around 8.15am before fleeing on a black scooter.


    "I saw two people dead in front of the school, an adult and a child ... Inside, it was a vision of horror, the bodies of two small children," a distraught father whose child attends the school told RTL radio.

    "I did not find my son, apparently he fled when he saw what happened. How can they attack something as sacred as a school?"

    President Nicolas Sarkozy called the shootings an "abominable drama" and a "frightening tragedy".

    Sarkozy, currently on the election trail, cancelled other appointments and was expected to visit the school on Monday morning.

    It was not immediately clear whether police were linking the attack to a series of "ride-by" shootings of soldiers in the area last week, in which three paratroopers were killed in two incidents by a gunman who made a getaway on a motorbike.

    However, the interior minister Claude Guéant said there were "similarities" between the attack at the school and on the soldiers. The soldiers shot last week were of North African origin and Caribbean origin.

    Luc Escodat, of the police union Alliance, told iTele TV that one of the two weapons used in the school shooting was similar to that used in last week's attacks on soldiers.

    The three members of a parachute regiment were shot in the busy town centre of Montauban, 46km (28 miles) south of Toulouse, on Thursday afternoon. Two died on the spot, while the third was in a critical condition in hospital.

    The previous Sunday in a suburb of Toulouse, an off-duty member of another regiment was shot in the head at point blank range by a gunman on a scooter. Imad Ibn-Ziaten, 30, a marshall in the 1st Parachute Regiment, was standing next to his Suzuki 650cc motorbike outside a gym and had been wearing his helmet at the time; he was not in uniform.

    The police are still hunting for the motorbike gunman thought to be behind last week's attacks on the soldiers. Media reports said the suspect had a tattoo or scar on his left cheek.

    French media reported that security was being tightened at all Jewish schools in the country.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/19/toulouse-shooting-three-killed-jewish-school

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Three killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #1 - March 19, 2012, 10:13 AM

    :(

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Three killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #2 - March 19, 2012, 10:34 AM

    Is it accepted that this is related to Islam?  It is just that I was in a shop queue this morning and this was discussed and someone commented about "our Islamic friends".

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Three killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #3 - March 19, 2012, 10:43 AM

    more suffering
    more killing
    there's no end
    but my end
  • Re: Three killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #4 - March 19, 2012, 10:51 AM

    Is it accepted that this is related to Islam?  It is just that I was in a shop queue this morning and this was discussed and someone commented about "our Islamic friends".


    We don't know yet. It could be Aryan supremacist far-right anti-semites. Some French soldiers were shot dead in the same region recently who were of ethnic minority African origin. That could be racists, or it could be Islamic extremists. It could be a lone lunatic type.

    The truth is we are just speculating at the moment. Remember when Breivik happened, alot of people jumped to the wrong conclusion.

    So until we know, everyone should stop assuming. It could possibly be Islamic extremists. But until we know for sure, its best not to jump to a conclusion.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Three killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #5 - March 19, 2012, 10:52 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVW8ci3_Lc

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #6 - March 19, 2012, 04:28 PM

     Cry Cry Cry

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #7 - March 19, 2012, 04:41 PM

    Three children amongst the dead. The adult who died was a rabbi.


    updated: four confirmed dead now


    ++++++

    Toulouse shooting: four killed outside Jewish school

    A gunman opened fire in front of a Jewish school in the south-west French city of Toulouse on Monday, killing four people including a father and his two sons, and another child.

    The adult victim was thought to be a rabbi who taught at the school, who died with his three-year-old and six-year-old sons. The fourth victim, aged between eight and 10 years old, was the school principal's daughter, according to Rahamim Sabag, a rabbi who works at the school. Sabag was speaking to Israel's Channel 2 television.

    Witnesses described how the gunman opened fire outside the Ozar Hatorah school, a private Jewish secondary, at around 8.15am before fleeing on a black scooter.


    "I saw two people dead in front of the school, an adult and a child ... Inside, it was a vision of horror, the bodies of two small children," a distraught father whose child attends the school told RTL radio.

    "I did not find my son, apparently he fled when he saw what happened. How can they attack something as sacred as a school?"

    President Nicolas Sarkozy called the shootings an "abominable drama" and a "frightening tragedy".

    Sarkozy, currently on the election trail, cancelled other appointments and was expected to visit the school on Monday morning.

    It was not immediately clear whether police were linking the attack to a series of "ride-by" shootings of soldiers in the area last week, in which three paratroopers were killed in two incidents by a gunman who made a getaway on a motorbike.

    However, the interior minister Claude Guéant said there were "similarities" between the attack at the school and on the soldiers. The soldiers shot last week were of North African origin and Caribbean origin.

    Luc Escodat, of the police union Alliance, told iTele TV that one of the two weapons used in the school shooting was similar to that used in last week's attacks on soldiers.

    The three members of a parachute regiment were shot in the busy town centre of Montauban, 46km (28 miles) south of Toulouse, on Thursday afternoon. Two died on the spot, while the third was in a critical condition in hospital.

    The previous Sunday in a suburb of Toulouse, an off-duty member of another regiment was shot in the head at point blank range by a gunman on a scooter. Imad Ibn-Ziaten, 30, a marshall in the 1st Parachute Regiment, was standing next to his Suzuki 650cc motorbike outside a gym and had been wearing his helmet at the time; he was not in uniform.

    The police are still hunting for the motorbike gunman thought to be behind last week's attacks on the soldiers. Media reports said the suspect had a tattoo or scar on his left cheek.

    French media reported that security was being tightened at all Jewish schools in the country.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/19/toulouse-shooting-three-killed-jewish-school



    If all these are linked it sounds to me like a white nationalist did it. Will wait and see though however this is how the evidence pans out in my head at the moment in terms of conclusions.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #8 - March 19, 2012, 04:48 PM


    Yeah its definitely in the domain of a violent racist anti-semitic white supremacist to do something like this.

    It could conceivably be a jehadi too but the modus operandi is unusual for those kinds of attacks up till now. 

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #9 - March 20, 2012, 04:16 PM

    To me it's very very unlikely to be an attack by an organized Jihadi organization. It's much more likely to be some kind of Breivik-like freak. Maybe Muslim, but that's also unlikely.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #10 - March 20, 2012, 04:20 PM

    Not that it matters but do the police have any description of the shooter?

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #11 - March 20, 2012, 04:23 PM

    I have not heard of any. I guess that means his (or maybe her Huh?) face was covered by his/her helmet.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #12 - March 20, 2012, 04:48 PM

    Gunman Reportedly Filmed Lethal Shooting Spree at French Jewish School says news

    Quote
    TOULOUSE, France — A day after an attack outside a Jewish school here killed a rabbi and three young children, the French authorities offered fresh details on Tuesday of an assault that has stunned the nation and terrorized the city, saying the lone gunman seemed to be filming his actions as he coolly shot his victims to death.  Claude Guéant, the interior minister, told a French radio station that surveillance footage from the school’s security cameras showed what appeared to be a video camera strapped to the gunman’s chest — adding a lurid detail to the most deadly attack against Jews in France in 30 years. ..........

    Quote
    The suspect pursued his last victim, an 8-year-old girl, into the concrete courtyard, seizing and stopping her by her hair, said Ms. Yardeni, who viewed surveillance footage of the killing.  His gun appeared to jam at that point, Ms. Yardeni said. Still holding the girl, the killer then changed weapons, from what police identified as a 9-millimeter pistol to the .45-caliber. He shot her in the head and left, never removing his motorcycle helmet.

    “It is unbearable that someone could dehumanize children to this point,” Ms. Yardeni said, choking back tears. ..............




    well those are the kids from that school where that hero murdered 4 kids..  Sure the video will come out..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #13 - March 20, 2012, 05:00 PM


    I really didn't need to read those details.

    What are the chances this satanic filth has blown his brains out in a ditch in a field somewhere?


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #14 - March 20, 2012, 05:11 PM

    I think it's more valuable to catch the killer live as to monitor any networks he may be linked to but also to study motivations and psychological disorders.

    Obviously it may sound callous to the sufferers of the tragedy, who would want 'justice', but prevention is better than cure.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #15 - March 20, 2012, 05:18 PM


    Yeah I know but these kinds of scumbag shoot themselves quite often, cowards that they are. Just wondering out loud.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #16 - March 20, 2012, 06:10 PM



    Rabbi Jonathan Sandler and two of his children were among those killed at the school




    Miriam Monsonego, daughter of the school headmaster, was also killed.


    All the dead were dual French-Israeli nationals

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #17 - March 20, 2012, 06:36 PM

    Quote

    Toulouse shootings: race, religion and murder

    The Toulouse killings have come at a time when French politicians use a language of hatred

    Over the past few years of recession and regression, it has become a trite truism of European politics that you can't go wrong going to the right. Politicians across the continent have found a new magic formula for electoral success and survival by playing on fears of foreigners and particularly of Islam – the wink and a nod that says that immigration has been the root of our social and economic decline. This is by no means an exclusively rightwing vice. Anyone who has heard the Dutch Labour party recently will have difficulty putting light between them and the demagogue Geert Wilders.

    Until today, they might have tried to argue that there was no harm in it, that it's healthy even, a rebalancing of the scales after two decades of biting our tongues and creeping political correctness.

    The French airwaves have been full of such ugly equivocation these past few weeks as Nicolas Sarkozy has lurched his party wildly to the right in an attempt to save his skin, claiming there were "too many immigrants in France" and stoking Islamophobia with a ridiculous claim that the French were being secretly forced to eat halal; his prime minister François Fillon even said Jews and Muslims should put their dietary laws behind them and embrace modernity.

    Claude Guéant, the interior minister who took personal control of the investigation, has been the most consistently xenophobic, championing the superiority of European Christian civilisation over lesser cultures who force their women to cover up – yes, observant Jews and Muslims, he meant you. The nadir came last week when Sarkozy's new immigration chief Arno Klarsfeld – the eldest son, ironically, of Nazi-hunter Serge Klarsfeld – called for a wall to be built between Greece and Turkey to save Europe from barbarian invaders.

    Today in Toulouse we have been given a horrific illustration of where such delirious cynicism can lead. All of those who have been shot or killed in and around the city in the past eight days have had one thing in common. They are from visible minorities. They had names or faces that marked them out as not being descended, as Jean-Marie Le Pen would say, from "our ancestors the Gauls". Their roots – both Jewish and Muslim – were in the Maghreb or the Caribbean. They were, in short, a snapshot of la France metissée – the mixed race, immigrant France that works hard and "gets up early" to empty bins and look after children; the people who die disproportionately for France yet who are also most often locked up in its prisons and crumbling banlieues.

    As one father said this morning as he hugged his son to him outside the school, "They are attacking us because we are different."

    Police are a long way yet from catching, never mind understanding, what was going through the head of someone who could catch a little girl by the hair so he wouldn't have to waste a second bullet on her. But some things are already becoming clear. He shouted no jihadist or anti-Semitic slogans, going about his grisly business in the cold, military manner oddly similar to Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian gunman who massacred 77 people at a social democrats summer camp last summer.

    As with Breivik, politicians will be quick to the thesis of the lone madman. Another lone madman influenced by nothing but his own distorted mind, like the lone gang of neo-Nazis who had been quietly killing Turks and Greeks in Germany for years unbothered by the police, who preferred to put the murders down to feuds or honour killings.

    What could be the link, they ask, between Jewish children and French military personnel? The link is they are both seen – and not just by a far-right fringe – as symbols of all that has sabotaged la France forte, to borrow Sarkozy's election slogan. Confessional schools, be they Jewish or an informal weekend madrassa, are seen as actively undermining the secular Republic by activists of groups like the Bloc Identitaire and the Front National, as well as some members of Sarkozy's UMP, and even some on the left.

    A black man or a Muslim, particularly one of Algerian origin, in a paratrooper's uniform touches a raw nerve among the old guard of the far right. It was the paratroopers who did the bulk of the dirty work to keep Algeria French, and who also tried to oust De Gaulle when he went against them.

    Today is the 50th anniversary of the end of that war that left more than a million dead and two countries twisted and contorted by the pain of it in almost equal and opposite ways.

    Not even Sarkozy, who has most politically to lose from these killings, is trying to hide the link with race and religion. Just as he echoed the old National Front slogan "Love France or leave it" and then denied he ever said it, he yesterday called on the French people to stand up "against hate", having spent the past few months manically stirring it. The next 34 days will see whether he will be swept away by the storm he has helped to start.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/19/toulouse-shootings-race-religion-murder-france
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #18 - March 20, 2012, 06:40 PM

    I love how politicians and the mainstream media puts it down mental loner acting on his own when its a right wing nutter like Breivik or like that US soldier who killed Afghan civilians. But when its a muslim who kills civilians then its "OMG HE'S EVIL AND IS PART OF A WIDER EVIL IDEOLOGY"  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #19 - March 20, 2012, 06:48 PM

    Alot of dots being connected in that article. Very problematic though, not least of all because as yet, we don't know who is responsible for this.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #20 - March 20, 2012, 06:50 PM

    I love how politicians and the mainstream media puts it down mental loner acting on his own when its a right wing nutter like Breivik or like that US soldier who killed Afghan civilians. But when its a muslim who kills civilians then its "OMG HE'S EVIL AND IS PART OF A WIDER EVIL IDEOLOGY"  Roll Eyes


    Breivik was a loner and as yet no formal connections with other far-right individuals or groups have been discovered in the actions he took. His ideological manifesto and his links with people are out in the open though. 'Ideologically' his wider perspective is transparent.

    The ideology of far-right extremists is out in the open, and is part of a wider nativist, supremacist discourse. Thats fairly obvious.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #21 - March 20, 2012, 07:03 PM

    Alot of dots being connected in that article. Very problematic though, not least of all because as yet, we don't know who is responsible for this.


    True, still could be a jihadi. Both attacks could easily be justified by Islamists.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #22 - March 20, 2012, 07:09 PM



    Its not just that. Even if it does turn out to be a white supremacist, the dots he has joined up are problematic when it comes to asserting causation in a generalised way. There may be specific things worth examination and condemnation.

    Its equally problematic in the face of jehadi violence, the causation game.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #23 - March 21, 2012, 06:59 AM

    French police corner ‘al-Qaeda suspect’ after shootings says news



    Police officers are investigating three attacks in which a gunman killed three soldiers, three Jewish schoolchildren and a rabbi had sealed off an address in the Croix-Daurade district of Toulouse. ;


    Quote
    TOULOUSE: A French police specials weapons squad cornered Wednesday a self-declared member of the Al-Qaeda network holed up in a house after a series of shooting attacks that shocked the nation. Police sources told AFP officers investigating three attacks in which a gunman killed three soldiers, three Jewish schoolchildren and a rabbi had sealed off an address in the Croix-Daurade district of Toulouse.

    A source close to the inquiry told AFP the suspect had exchanged words with the RAID team and had declared himself to be a member of Al-Qaeda, the armed Islamist group founded by late Saudi extremist Osama bin Laden. He is thought to be a 24-year-old man who had previously travelled to the lawless border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan which is known to house al-Qaeda safehouses, one of the officials told AFP.; He was in the DCRIs sights, as were others, after the first two attacks,an official said, referring to Frances domestic intelligence service, adding;Then the criminal investigation police brought in crucial evidence.

    French Interior Minister Claude Gueant was at the scene of the operation, which was sealed off by officers in body armour and helmets. Two police were slightly wounded as the raid got underway, a source said. ;If the suspect is proved to have been responsible for the killings, it would bring to an end to one of the most intense manhunts in French history and help calm tensions after a series of attacks disrupted a presidential election.  The shootings began on March 11, when a 30-year-old off-duty paratrooper of North African origin arranged to meet someone in Toulouse to sell him a scooter he had advertised online, revealing in the ad his military status.

    The non-commissioned officer was shot in the head at close range with a .45 calibre pistol, a method that was to become the suspects signature. Four days later three more paratroopers from another regiment were gunned down in identical fashion in a street in the garrison town of Montauban, 45 kilometres (29 miles) alway. Two died, also French North Africans.

    Then on Monday the shooter, still wearing a motorcycle helmet and riding a scooter, opened fire outside the Ozar Hatorah Jewish school in Toulouse, a religious studies teacher, his toddler sons and a seven-year-old girl. Anti-terrorist magistrates said the same gun and make of scooter was used in all three attacks and noted that the three attacks were carried out at precise four-day intervals

    . u]who can  seize &  stop an  8-year-old girl  by her hair??  and who can   change weapons, holding  her with her hair  and  ;shot her in the head and..and...  leave her on a  concrete courtyard???[/u]

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #24 - March 21, 2012, 07:05 AM

    A very broken human being.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #25 - March 21, 2012, 07:13 AM

    A very broken human being.


    You can not break "Human being"., only inhuman unevolved species  species  gets broken...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #26 - March 21, 2012, 09:57 AM

    Quote
    Quote
    Raid on Toulouse shooting suspect

    Mohammed Merah, the man believed to be the gunman on a scooter who killed seven people in south-western France, is a 24-year-old French citizen of Algerian extraction.

    Before the shootings in Toulouse and Montauban, he was known to the French authorities because he had a criminal record for non-terrorist crimes.

    Police surrounded him at a house in Toulouse, after the shootings, in which three French soldiers and a rabbi and three Jewish children were killed.

    According to the French authorities, he said he had sought to avenge Palestinian children and to attack the French army because of its foreign interventions.

    He had described himself as an Islamist warrior and member of the al-Qaeda network.

    French news channel BFM TV said he was linked to Forsane Alizza (Knights of Pride), an Islamist group banned last month in France.

    French police say he was previously arrested in the Afghan city of Kandahar, the former stronghold of the Taliban, on a matter of common law.

    According to Interior Minister Claude Gueant, the suspect made trips to both Afghanistan and Pakistan.



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17456541

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #27 - March 21, 2012, 10:08 AM



    Looks like its a jehadi.

    The perils of speaking too soon.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #28 - March 21, 2012, 10:34 AM

    deranged human on religion drug

    when the poop hit the fan,
    I can hear, apologetic Islamics
    figure will call him a non Muslim
    and his action is not based on
    islamic teaching while an apostate
    is still considered a Muslim and
    needs to be educated on true islamic
    path  .........
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #29 - March 21, 2012, 12:46 PM

    What is this either or stuff about?  Jihadi, lone madman, fascist?  All of the above?  PIF  Psychopathicislamofascist.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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