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Theme Changer

 Topic: KONY 2012

 (Read 24681 times)
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  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #30 - March 08, 2012, 09:55 PM

     clap

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #31 - March 08, 2012, 09:56 PM

    I wasn't referring to the financial issues. They address everything else too.

    From what I understand, the LRA isn't even active in Uganda any more.

    And no, I'm not suggesting that someone can fix Africa by tweeting a vid.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #32 - March 08, 2012, 10:00 PM

    I wasn't referring to the financial issues. They address everything else too.


    Not really.

    From what I understand, the LRA isn't even active in Uganda any more.


    Yep, that's only ONE of the things I posted about up above. Before calling critique of this campaign "phobic" I do wish people would READ what is written in those researched articles.

    For example, from one of the articles I posted earlier here:


    Joseph Kony is not in Uganda (and other complicated things)

    Quote
    "Joseph Kony is basically Adolf Hitler. He has an army of 30 000 mindless children who slaughter innocent people in Uganda."

    Have you seen something like that fly across your Twitter or Facebook feed today? Or perhaps this?:

    "#TweetToSave the Invisible Children of Uganda! #Kony2012 Make Joseph Kony Famous!!"

    "Kony 2012," a video posted by advocacy group Invisible Children to raise awareness about the pernicious evil of Lord's Risistance Army (LRA) leader Joseph Kony,  has already been viewed over 8 million times on Vimeo and more than 9 million times on YouTube (and surely more by the time you read this) since its release this week.

    It would be great to get rid of Kony.  He and his forces have left a path of abductions and mass murder in their wake for over 20 years.  But let's get two things straight: 1) Joseph Kony is not in Uganda and hasn't been for 6 years; 2) the LRA now numbers at most in the hundreds, and while it is still causing immense suffering, it is unclear how millions of well-meaning but misinformed people are going to help deal with the more complicated reality.

    First, the facts. Following a successful campaign by the Ugandan military and failed peace talks in 2006, the LRA was pushed out of Uganda and has been operating in extremely remote areas of the DRC, South Sudan, and the Central African Republic -- where Kony himself is believed to be now. The Ugandan military has been pursuing the LRA since then but had little success (and several big screw-ups). In October last year, President Obama authorized the deployment of 100 U.S. Army advisors to help the Ugandan military track down Kony, with no results disclosed to date.

    Additionally, the LRA (thankfully!) does not have 30,000 mindless child soldiers. This grim figure, cited by Invisible Children in the film (and by others) refers to the total number of kids abducted by the LRA over nearly 30 years. Eerily, it is also the same number estimated for the total killed in the more than 20 years of conflict in Northern Uganda.

    As I wrote for FP in 2010, the small remaining LRA forces are still wreaking havoc and very hard to catch, but Northern Uganda has had tremendous recovery in the 6 years of peace since the LRA left.

    So why is "Uganda" trending on Twitter?

    Unfortunately, it looks like meddlesome details like where Kony actually is aren't important enough for Invisible Children to make sure its audience understands. The video, narrated by Invisible Children co-founder Jason Russell, says its purpose is to intensify pressure on the U.S. government to make sure Kony is brought to justice this year, and as the message broadcast throughout says, what is important is simple: Stop Kony.

    Among other emotive shots, the video features Russell's attempt to explain the LRA to his toddler son, enthusiastic (and mostly white) volunteers putting up posters and wearing Kony 2012 bracelets, and some heart-wrenching footage of children who walked for miles to sleep in a safe place at the height of the LRA's power in Northern Uganda. The latter comprised much of Invisible Children's namesake first film and brought the organization to prominence.

    But in the new film, Invisible Children has made virtually no effort to inform. Only once, at 15:01 in the movie, over an image of a red blob on a map leaving Northern Uganda and heading West, is the fact that the LRA is no longer in Uganda mentioned, and only in passing:

    "As the LRA begain to move into other countries, Jacob [one of the children filmed in Northern Uganda in 2003] and other Ugandans came to the US to speak on behalf of all people suffering because of Kony. Even though Uganda was relatively safe they felt compelled to tell the world that Kony was still out there and had to be stopped."

    That's it, in a 30-minute movie. And with both the graphic and reiteration of how awful the LRA is, you might think reasonably "move into other countries" meant expanding rather than fleeing. In any case, the focus, seconds later,  is on Invisible Children's activities in the U.S. at the time, not what was happening back in Africa. I can see why some of P. Diddy's followers might be confused.

    Award-winning Ugandan journalist Angelo Izama is among those not thrilled:

    "To call the campaign a misrepresentation is an understatement. While it draws attention to the fact that Kony, indicted for war crimes by the International Criminal Court in 2005, is still on the loose, its portrayal of his alleged crimes in Northern Uganda are from a bygone era. At the height of the war between especially 1999 and 2004, large hordes of children took refuge on the streets of Gulu town to escape the horrors of abduction and brutal conscription to the ranks of the LRA. Today most of these children are semi-adults. Many are still on the streets unemployed. Gulu has the highest numbers of child prostitutes in Uganda. It also has one of the highest rates of HIV/AIDS and Hepatitis.

    If six years ago children in Uganda would have feared the hell of being part of the LRA, a well documented reality already, today the real invisible children are those suffering from "Nodding Disease". Over 4000 children are victims of this incurable debilitating condition. It's a neurological disease that has baffled world scientists and attacks mainly children from the most war affected districts of Kitgum, Pader and Gulu."

    Along with sharing the movie online, Invisible Children's call to action is to do three things: 1) sign its pledge, 2) get the Kony 2012 bracelet and action kit (only $30!), and 3) sign up to donate.

    There is intense criticism out there over Invisible Children's finances, including that it spends too much money on administration and filmmaking, while still touting its on the ground NGO-style projects. Also, apparently it's never been externally audited. I'm going to stay out of that, other than to say you can check out IC's own financial disclosure information here.

    What worries me more is that it's unclear what exactly Invisible Children wants to do, other than raise a lot of money and attention. Here's Russell in the video (21:40):

    "We know what to do. Here it is, ready? In order for Kony to be arrested this year, the Ugandan military has to find him. In order to find him, they need the technology and training to track him in the vast jungle. That's where the American advisors come in. But in order for the American advisors to be there, the American government has to deploy them. They've done that, but if the government doesn't believe the people care about Kony, the mission will be cancelled. In order for the people to care, they have to know. And they will only know if Kony's name is everywhere.

    So the goal is to make sure that President Obama doesn't withdraw the advisors he deployed until Kony is captured or killed. That seems noble enough, except that there has been no mention by the government of withdrawing those forces -- at least any I can find. Does anyone else have any evidence about this urgent threat of cancellation? One that justifies such a massive production campaign and surely lucrative donation drive?

    There are many reasons uninformed and oversimplified advocacy can cause trouble, and Siena Antsis catalogues some of them here, noting that Invisible Children expertly "commodifies white man's burden on the African continent."  Buy a bracelet, soothe some guilt.

    But as researcher Mark Kersten notes, after "stopping Kony", then what? Or what if the activism just results the the 100 U.S. advisors staying but no Kony?

    One of the biggest issues with a simplistic "Stop Kony" message is that discussions of Navy Seals or drone strikes are inevitable when patience runs out with Ugandan-led efforts . But what about the dozens or hundreds of abducted and brainwashed kids? Should we bomb everyone? Will they actually stop fighting after Kony is gone? What if they shoot back?

    Coming back to the "Kony 2012" video and its celebrity endorsements, what are the consequences of unleashing so many exuberant activists armed with so few facts? Defining Uganda in the international conversation by issues that are either geographical misfires (Save northern Uganda!) or an intentional attempt to distract the international community (Death to the gays!), do a disservice to the many critical problems Uganda has.

    In addition to the problems of poverty and nodding disease Izama highlights, Uganda is barely (if at all) democratic, and the president Yoweri Museveni ushered himself to a 4th term last year, taking him to over 25 years in power. Corruption is rampant, social services are minimal, and human rights abuses by the government common and well documented. Oh, and oil is on the way.

    Stopping Kony won't change any of these things, and if more hardware and money flow to Museveni's military, Invisible Children's campaign may even worsen some problems.


    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #33 - March 08, 2012, 10:04 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqPPlu-9Ris

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #34 - March 08, 2012, 10:08 PM

    Phobic? Grin Way to go completely ignoring all the rational, historically informed, critical and nuanced points in the 4 or 5 articles I posted above.

    Really? Cuz it sounds more like an echo chamber to me, with Captain Obvious and General Straw Man rattling around the same few weak and stretched points on several blogs, and the dittoheads scratching their beard trying to look informed and figure out all the colourful ways they can justify their inaction while maintaining their superior visage. Pretty much all of the first wave of criticism has been batted out of the park already, and as far as I can tell, most of the rest has been addressed in the official response.

    What would be nice is if more people applied the same level of scrutiny to these blogs and opinion pieces as they are doing to the actual video. And then when they've finished barking at the video and knocking up shitty low-end memes, actually take a cursory glance at the organisation itself and form some form of original thought or opinion on what they actually have a problem with.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #35 - March 08, 2012, 10:12 PM

    LOL. Nice ad hominems. Wink I guess you don't have counter arguments left, calling people a lot more educated than you or I on this issue "ditto heads".

    The real reason people have spread this video (and are NOW acting as its evangelists) is because of their own guilt at not even knowing there was a country called Uganda, or that these issues have existed for decades. Someone makes a shiny video, it's so easy to click on SHARE and feel all superior.. like oh well, I've done my good deed to save the world. Hands washed.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #36 - March 08, 2012, 10:14 PM

    Lots of issues get ignored in "social media" because they involve more EFFORT than simply clicking on "Share" on a glossy 30 minute video. Issues like consumerism, govt accountability, our addiction to oil and our corporate masters. None of those things get this much attention because they're usually not as well funded as this "charity" because there's no oil money to be made by these issues' promoters.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #37 - March 08, 2012, 10:22 PM

    Yep, that's only ONE of the things I posted about up above. Before calling critique of this campaign "phobic" I do wish people would READ what is written in those researched articles.

    I have never described the criticism as phobic. I did read the articles you posted.

    From what I can gather, it seems like this organisation was started by some well-intentioned Yanks who have been involved with the region for quite some time (like well before oil was discovered in Uganda), even if they did get into via the old "wont somebody think of the children?" thing. So yes, they may be stuck on one issue, but it seems they are doing some good in the communities as a result of this. They also seem to work with local people and take the local people's real needs into account as much as they can. That there may be other groups trying to help doesn't change this. One of the problems with social programs is that there are always a range of groups who all think they know best how to help, with the result that resources get fragmented between groups.

    They also don't confine themselves to working in Uganda. This is made clear by their reference to radio warning systems for outlying villages in other countries that are at risk of attack. Their finances seem to be in order, AFAICT, so it's looking like the accusations of misuse of funds are unfounded.

    The real issues are related to this: "In order for Kony to be arrested this year, the Ugandan military has to find him."

    If the LRA is not even active in Uganda any more, then I fail to see what the Ugandan military has to do with it.

    What I'm getting at is that the IC organisation itself seems to be more or less as good as any other concerned NGO group, but the current campaign seems slightly whiffy in some respects. However, apprehending Kony, if possible, doesn't seem like a bad thing.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #38 - March 08, 2012, 10:22 PM

    For the lulz ...
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #39 - March 08, 2012, 10:25 PM

    LOL. Nice ad hominems. Wink I guess you don't have counter arguments left, calling people a lot more educated than you or I on this issue "ditto heads".

    The real reason people have spread this video (and are NOW acting as its evangelists) is because of their own guilt at not even knowing there was a country called Uganda, or that these issues have existed for decades. Someone makes a shiny video, it's so easy to click on SHARE and feel all superior.. like oh well, I've done my good deed to save the world. Hands washed.

    Feel free to be a tiny bit more specific and actually articulate what issues you have with the organisation and its aims.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #40 - March 08, 2012, 10:29 PM

    Ok. Please read the articles I posted hours ago on page 1 of this thread. And watch the videos I posted on page 1 and page 2.

    If you want a summary of everything, I'm sorry I can't provide that as this is a much more complex issue than could fit into say 30 minutes or 300 words.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #41 - March 08, 2012, 10:30 PM

    For the lulz ...


     Cheesy  yes

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #42 - March 08, 2012, 10:33 PM

    (Clicky for piccy!)



    A new requirement before sharing the Kony video.

    I got kenya. _-_ So close Cry

    Oh well, have no interest in watching this vid anyway...
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #43 - March 08, 2012, 10:34 PM

    Ok. Please read the articles I posted hours ago on page 1 of this thread. And watch the videos I posted on page 1 and page 2.

    If you want a summary of everything, I'm sorry I can't provide that as this is a much more complex issue than could fit into say 30 minutes or 300 words.

    Well, that's fine. But don't moan when I call you a dittohead then.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #44 - March 08, 2012, 10:41 PM

    Calling you on your inability to either read and/or respond to the actual rational arguments presented above in my posts and in the articles I posted, is not moaning or being a dittohead. But you feel free to continue to use ad hominems when your ego has been bruised. Wink

    Besides, each time you post an article, video or blurb from somewhere, we'll make sure to call you that too. Smiley

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #45 - March 08, 2012, 10:44 PM

    Yes, yes. My ego is bruised because you can make a good copypasta.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #46 - March 08, 2012, 10:45 PM

    The real reason people have spread this video (and are NOW acting as its evangelists) is because of their own guilt at not even knowing there was a country called Uganda, or that these issues have existed for decades. Someone makes a shiny video, it's so easy to click on SHARE and feel all superior.. like oh well, I've done my good deed to save the world. Hands washed.

    Yes, that aspect of it is daft. That doesn't mean that raising awareness is a bad thing.

    And I can remember Idi Amin. In fact, I can remember when he came to power.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFeJJAQPiK4

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #47 - March 08, 2012, 10:46 PM

    Yes, yes. My ego is bruised because you can make a good copypasta.


    No No No Smiley It's bruised because you promoted a cause without looking into the research around it. And then later because you either read it and felt embarrassed and yet feel that you need to defend your prior actions no matter what (far be it for anyone to change their mind about anything regardless of how much evidence and rational arguments they come across). And now because you keep insisting on the pure and un-critiquable validity of your former cause du jour.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #48 - March 08, 2012, 10:51 PM

    Yes, that aspect of it is daft. That doesn't mean that raising awareness is a bad thing.

    And I can remember Idi Amin. In fact, I can remember when he came to power.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFeJJAQPiK4


    Of course neither I nor any of the articles I posted, nor any of the actual Ugandans and others with whom I've discussed Ugandan politics in university and online for years, would want Kony to walk free. FFS, this whole critique is about THIS CAMPAIGN and how it's actually potentially going to make things WORSE, and that it is stemming from an OIL discovery in Uganda.

    Has nobody read any history here? Do we not know how atrocities are ignored unless there are resources to be profited from? Why was Uganda ignored for almost 20 years? Why is Saudi Arabia ignored? Why aren't the atrocities being committed in Darfur or the Congo getting any attention? Look these things up please people, FFS. Or don't pretend to be "social activists" all of a sudden.

    To pretend there are no economic gains to be made in Uganda and to deny that this campaign *just happens to* coincide with those economic strategies, is really to just be deliberately ignorant.

    I expected better of those of us here who are actually quite intelligent AND skeptical people in other aspects.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #49 - March 08, 2012, 11:04 PM

    Of course neither I nor none of the articles I posted, nor any of the actual Ugandans and others with whom I've discussed Ugandan politics in university and online for years, would want Kony to walk free. FFS, this whole critique is about THIS CAMPAIGN and how it's actually potentially going to make things WORSE, and that it is stemming from an OIL discovery in Uganda.

    Yes, I understand that. What I'm saying is that the IC organisation itself seems ok, as such NGO organisations go, and it seems pointless to be bagging them over their finances and their attitudes to local groups. That aspect of their work seems to be ok.

    If people really want to ask questions they should ask the pertinent one: if the LRA is no longer active in Uganda, WTF does the Ugandan military have to do with it? It seems the LRA is active over in the Congo and other places, so if any outside intelligence/military assistance is required why should it be aimed at Uganda?


    Quote
    Has nobody read any history here? Do we not know how atrocities are ignored unless there are resources to be profited from? Why was Uganda ignore for almost 20 years? Why is Saudi Arabia ignored? Why aren't the atrocities being committed in Darfur or the Congo getting any attention? Look these things up please people, FFS. Or don't pretend to be "social activists" all of a sudden.

    You're assuming that nobody here knows anything about those other issues.


    Quote
    To pretend there are no economic gains to be made in Uganda and that this campaign *just happens to* coincide with those economic strategies, is really to just be deliberately ignorant.

    Yup. Never said otherwise. Like I said, IC itself seems ok but the current campaign is a bit whiffy. I get the impression that someone has been taking a well-meaning bunch of people and pulling strings behind the scenes.


    Quote
    I expected better of those of us here who are actually quite intelligent AND skeptical people in other aspects.

    Never underestimate the stupidity of intelligent people in large groups. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #50 - March 08, 2012, 11:08 PM

    No No No Smiley It's bruised because you promoted a cause without looking into the research around it. And then later because you either read it and felt embarrassed and yet feel that you need to defend your prior actions no matter what... And now because you keep insisting on the pure and un-critiquable validity of your former cause du jour.

    Wow, you're like Mystic Meg for the new millennium. You've exposed so much about my unspoken thoughts and motives from so few words, far more than a mere human ought to be able to deduce from the actual words I typed. And you don't even need a crystal ball. Never before has anyone driven to core of my inner being as deftly as you.

    (far be it for anyone to change their mind about anything regardless of how much evidence and rational arguments they come across).

    Ahh right, yes. Your "rational arguments". Like the one about the 'timing' being bad. Such vagueness, certainly hiding much depth and unique insight once we manage to pry it out of you. How is the timing bad? Are the in-laws coming to visit? Have you only got 24 hours to live? Is Mars in Uranus? What?

    I've asked you twice now to clarify or state specifically one problem you have with the organisation, mainly so we have something to go on, and your response has been "but, but... the blogs!". There is only so many times you get to accuse me of not addressing your arguments, without actually making an effort to put some original thought down in words and present it as an argument, before I start to wonder if you're even credible.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #51 - March 08, 2012, 11:11 PM

    "Whaaaaah! Ad hominems!"

    Bored. Off to bed.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #52 - March 08, 2012, 11:16 PM

    Wow, you're like Mystic Meg for the new millennium. You've exposed so much about my unspoken thoughts and motives from so few words, far more than a mere human ought to be able to deduce from the actual words I typed. And you don't even need a crystal ball. Never before has anyone driven to core of my inner being as deftly as you.


    Cheesy Glad to be of service. I usually charge by the hour for such scathing insight. But for you, I consider it a public service.

    Ahh right, yes. Your "rational arguments". Like the one about the 'timing' being bad. Such vagueness, certainly hiding much depth and unique insight once we manage to pry it out of you. How is the timing bad? Are the in-laws coming to visit? Have you only got 24 hours to live? Is Mars in Uranus? What?


    Ah yes ignore any actual rational arguments that threaten your worldview... just deflect deflect deflect. You sure have gotten good at that game Smiley

    I've asked you twice now to clarify or state specifically one problem you have with the organisation, mainly so we have something to go on, and your response has been "but, but... the blogs!". There is only so many times you get to accuse me of not addressing your arguments, without actually making an effort to put some original thought down in words and present it as an argument, before I start to wonder if you're even credible


    Again. If you don't read anything I've posted, including articles from magazines and videos by Ugandans, etc. it's not my fault you are incapable of absorbing new, critical information.

    "Whaaaaah! Ad hominems!"

    Bored. Off to bed.


    Yeah you are Queen Ad Hominem, you are Smiley

    G'nite. Try investing in a literacy audio program, maybe you can learn to read while you sleep.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #53 - March 08, 2012, 11:31 PM

    Yes, I understand that. What I'm saying is that the IC organisation itself seems ok, as such NGO organisations go, and it seems pointless to be bagging them over their finances and their attitudes to local groups. That aspect of their work seems to be ok.


    Well I don't trust NGOs by default, no matter who they are. They have to be accountable, but many of them are actually quite shady and most (not all) NGOs promote a certain brand of neoliberalism in poor countries that often ends up hurting the people there more than helping. That said, *MY* critique has not been about just the IC, which is, yes actually a pretty shady org itself. My critique and the ones I posted earlier are about, as I think you realize, the entire campaign and its timing, not just 1 particular NGO.

    If people really want to ask questions they should ask the pertinent one: if the LRA is no longer active in Uganda, WTF does the Ugandan military have to do with it? It seems the LRA is active over in the Congo and other places, so if any outside intelligence/military assistance is required why should it be aimed at Uganda?


    Exactly. That is how you know this campaign, this hysterical attention, the well-planned social media Blitzkrieg is actually about deeper political issues. It's about empowering Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni, who is known for his govt's corruption and use of child soldiers. Empowering his regime means big buck$$$ for oil companies and THAT is the real push behind this campaign.

    Average people, wrecked with their consumerist guilt, are told they can save Africa by clicking on Like and Share on one glossy video. Then they become personally invested in defending it at any cost. Meanwhile, the powers that be are figuring out how to take over the resources that are being discovered in Uganda. Nobody at the top, not Kony, not Museveni, not the people funding this campaign actually give a rat's ASS about children or the human rights violations there.

    But screaming OMFG WHAT ABOUT TEH CHILDREN! LOOK OH NOES CHILDREN PEOPLE CHILDREN WAHHHHHH!! is a great, cheap way to make the masses do just about anything you want them to do.

    You're assuming that nobody here knows anything about those other issues.


    No. I am talking about the media and online campaigns where there is NOTHING close to as much attention given to Darfur or Congo, where MUCH WORSE things are happening and have been happening too.

    Never underestimate the stupidity of intelligent people in large groups. Smiley


    Too true Grin

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #54 - March 08, 2012, 11:35 PM

    You've got a slight glitch with some of my content being put as yours in that post. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #55 - March 08, 2012, 11:35 PM

    Yeah. thanks Smiley Fixed.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #56 - March 09, 2012, 12:05 AM

    Well I don't trust NGOs by default, no matter who they are. They have to be accountable, but many of them are actually quite shady and most (not all) NGOs promote a certain brand of neoliberalism in poor countries that often ends up hurting the people there more than helping.

    I think a lot of them are well-intentioned, but see the world through their own perspective.


    Quote
    That said, *MY* critique has not been about just the IC, which is, yes actually a pretty shady org itself. My critique and the ones I posted earlier are about, as I think you realize, the entire campaign and its timing, not just 1 particular NGO.

    Yes, but there has been so much content quoted, and some of it has been attacking IC itself over issues which are not really relevant. I would go so far as to say that it appears some of the accusations are completely unfounded, or at the very least highly opinionated rather than obviously factual. That distracts from the central points which people should be concentrating on.


    Quote
    Exactly. That is how you know this campaign, this hysterical attention, the well-planned social media blitzkreig is actually about deeper political issues. It's about empowering Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni, who is known for his govt's corruption and use of child soldiers. Empowering his regime means big buck$$$ for oil companies and THAT is the real push behind this campaign.

    Ok, last point first. I wouldn't over-emphasise "big buck$$$ for oil companies". That's not taking the full picture into account. In fact, you could go so far as to say that deflecting attention onto fat cats is a bit of a smokescreen. You have to bear in mind that, for industrialised countries, oil is actually a strategic resource that has ramifications far more important than just bucks for fat cats.

    Just thinking off the cuff, I'm reminded of the whole blood diamonds business (and please excuse me for being aware of something other than the current video Tongue). A possible, but speculative, scenario is that if the region where the LRA is currently operating is near to the area where the oil is, then the presence of oil (and therefore money) could encourage the LRA to begin operating in Uganda again in an attempt to control the oil fields, in much the same way that groups in other countries seek to control the diamond mines.

    In that case, pre-emptively taking Kony out of action before production is compromised would make a certain amount of sense if you want to ensure production. It may be that some people are expecting LRA attacks on the oil fields, and want to have a trap ready.

    Having oil is potentially a good thing for Uganda, if you can get a decent government to manage it. That's going to be the real problem. Also, bear in mind that if western companies don't cut oil deals with Museveni's regime then Chinese and/or Russian companies will, and they don't give a shit about human rights either.


    Quote
    No. I am talking about the media and online campaigns where there is NOTHING close to as much attention given to Darfur or Congo, where MUCH WORSE things are happening and have been happening too.

    Problem is that these things go in and out of fashion. There was a lot of attention given to Darfur and Congo at times, but people tend to lose focus, particularly when there are so many issues in the world that we are supposed to be concerned about. It sort of becomes "issue du jour".

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #57 - March 09, 2012, 12:20 AM

    I think a lot of them are well-intentioned, but see the world through their own perspective.


    Yeah that's just a truism. Everyone from Islamists and Christian fanatics of today to the Inquisitors could claim the same. IOW, there is no group that can be formed or maintained without an appeal of "we really mean well" to recruits.

    Yes, but there has been so much content quoted, and some of it has been attacking IC itself over issues which are not really relevant.


    It is itself relevant, though not the most questionable part of this whole fiasco. The fact that IC released a statement shows they realized they had a lot of 'splainin' to do.

    And based on the critiques of them, they have not really addressed all the issues, although they, and their self-satisfied social media sharers, seem to believe they have.

    I have a class now, but will come back and give examples.

    Will just say now that again, my issue has not been solely about the IC, but about the larger implications, of which IC is 1 part but not the only problem.

    Ok, last point first. I wouldn't over-emphasise "big buck$$$ for oil companies". That's not taking the full picture into account. In fact, you could go so far as to say that deflecting attention onto fat cats is a bit of a smokescreen. You have to bear in mind that, for industrialised countries, oil is actually a strategic resource that has ramifications far more important than just bucks for fat cats.


    Not really. The war in iraq is a perfect example. Is there anyone who doubts that that invasion happened in order for US oil corps and other corps (security firms etc.) to profit from the resources and the instabilities in that country?

    Back in 2003, that war was sold to us all the same way: WE HAFTA TO GO IN TO SAVE TEH POOR POOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!!11 THINK OF THOSE CHILDREN!!!!!

    Having oil is potentially a good thing for Uganda, if you can get a decent government to manage it. That's going to be the real problem. Also, bear in mind that if western companies don't cut oil deals with Museveni's regime then Chinese and/or Russian companies will, and they don't give a shit about human rights either.


    Sure, although that's arguable. The US has lovely oil-based relations with Saudi Arabia and that is thus a bastion of human rights, innit?

    The US has always supported brutal regimes and continues to do so. It's the fastest and cheapest way to extract resources from a place: stick an asshole on top, give him guns and tell him to keep his people docile in any way possible while we extract this here oil/coltan etc.

    Problem is that these things go in and out of fashion. There was a lot of attention given to Darfur and Congo at times, but people tend to lose focus, particularly when there are so many issues in the world that we are supposed to be concerned about. It sort of becomes "issue du jour".


    Yep. That's been my point too all along.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #58 - March 09, 2012, 12:30 AM

    Yeah that's just a truism. Everyone from Islamists and Christian fanatics of today to the Inquisitors could claim the same. IOW, there is no group that can be formed or maintained without an appeal of "we really mean well" to recruits.

    It is itself relevant, though not the most questionable part of this whole fiasco. The fact that IC released a statement shows they realized they had a lot of 'splainin' to do.

    And based on the critiques of them, they have not really addressed all the issues, although they, and their self-satisfied social media sharers, seem to believe they have.

    They seem to have addressed a lot of the issues. I think it is possible that IC itself is being manipulated. Example:

    Find suitable group that has juicy issue (ZOMG KIDDIES!) > tell them you have information (which cannot be publicly verified) that their pet demon is gonna rampage in Uganda again > suggest this can be dealt with > offer bux and suggest a nice video would help.


    Quote
    Not really. The war in iraq is a perfect example. Is there anyone who doubts that that invasion happened in order for US oil corps and other corps (security firms etc.) to profit from the resources and the instabilities in that country?

    It's not quite that simple, IMHO. Putting it that way is as simplistic as saying it was all about freedom and democracy.


    Quote
    Back in 2003, that war was sold to us all the same way: WE HAFTA TO GO IN TO SAVE TEH POOR POOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!!11 THINK OF THOSE CHILDREN!!!!!

    No, it was not. It was sold on the basis of false "intelligence" about Saddam's regime having weapons of mass destruction. Women and children didn't come into it.


    Quote
    Sure, although that's arguable. The US has lovely oil-based relations with Saudi Arabia and that is thus a bastion of human rights, innit?

    Not sure how this is relevant to what I said.


    Quote
    The US has always supported brutal regimes and continues to do so. It's the fastest and cheapest way to extract resources from a place: stick an asshole on top, give him guns and tell him to keep his people docile in any way possible while we extract this here oil/coltan etc.

    Yeah, it works. For a while anyway. Tends to cause major problems down the tracks a bit.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: KONY 2012
     Reply #59 - March 09, 2012, 12:57 AM

    Not really. My arguments and the arguments I posted above have less to do with the financial issues the Invisible Children are accused of, and more about the deeper issues of ignoring the role of the Ugandan govt and the timing of this campaign and how it coincides with OIL being discovered in Uganda recently.

    Decades long massacres in Uganda and all of a sudden, such a massive, glossy and well-funded campaign to bring attention to this issue? All while ignoring the area's history or political nuances, and the fact that Kony's rival the Ugandan govt itself uses child soldiers etc.? Yeah, okay, sure.


    Yeah exactly. How many people sharing this bullshit know that Ugandan govt. commits gross human rights violations themselves? That's the problem I had with such "social activists" who share this crap, they know nothing about Africa, Uganda or the conflict. There's an anti-homosexuality bill that might be passed that will mean executions  Roll Eyes Or the fact that the very military that's being supported is part of the African Union which has killed people indiscriminately in Somalia.

    The problems of Africa and the rest of the "third world" cannot and will not be solved by Western NGOs, US congress and spoilt brats liking/sharing a video they watched on their Ipads.
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