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Theme Changer

 Topic: Syria

 (Read 2270 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Syria
     OP - February 26, 2012, 08:48 PM

    What do people think about Syria?
    Do people fully accept the criticism of Al Assad?

    Is the opposition real or something funded by the Saudis?

    I - based on very little information, and therefore open to changing my position, have some sympathy for the existing regime.
    I suspect that the opposition really do have a lot of Sunni fundamentalists in them, funded by some unpleasant local regimes.
    It seems to me to be part of the power struggle between Shia and Sunnis within the middle East - i.e. Iran and Saudi primarily.  If the present Syrian regime goes, I expect an unpleasant time for all minorities in Syria - Alawite, Druze and Christian. 

    I believe that American support for the rebels has more to do with their attempts to isolate Iran (a purpose partly served by the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan) than with concern for the locals.

    That is not to say I don't think that a whole bunch of innocent people aren't getting killed at the moment - rather that I think a whole bunch more will be killed if the current system collapses.

    Anything that Saudi Arabia is for is probably something I am against...
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #1 - February 26, 2012, 09:03 PM

    The security forces and military are involved in brutal campaigns across the country. That's not to say that Saudi Arabia isn't funding armed terrorist groups or America isn't playing it's own game (like all of the 'friends of Syria' conference), but the  police and military, mostly lead by Maher al Assad and the Shabiha (mostly Alawite mafia) are supressing the mostly Sunni poor who are protesting in poorer areas-using very brutal and dehumanising tactics.

    Having said that, it's a complicated issue, what will happen tomorrow?

    1) Will Syrians go for the referendum and settle down eventually, with real political change?
    2) Will a united Syrian opposition (made from all sects and ethnic groups) overturn the military and security forces?
    3) Will a Sunni revolution take place whereby minorities are persecuted and have to flee the country (or move to different parts of the country?
    4) Will Syria be physically divided into sectarian states?

    All I know is that the fight is quickly becoming sectarian in most areas-especially in places like Homs or Lattakia-Damascus is still fairly tame. The sunnis who used to back the regime are quickly ditching him, Sunni colonels are quickly leaving the army, many sunni troops are deserting or defecting-out of deseperation they are being replaced by loyal alawites from the clans close to the Assad family or the shabiha mafia-the only sunnis who still support the government are the middle class/elite ones in Aleppo and Damascus. While the Kurds and Druze are staying out of it, the Christians also seem to be supporting the regime-as are most alawites-not necessarily because they are fans, but because they fear the very likely outcome of an Islamist government takeover (and they still remember the discrimination they faced in the era of sunni dominance)-although left-wing Assyrian groups seem to be supporting the revolution in numbers.

    One hope I have is that Bashar al Assad defects. Many (on the inside) have been saying that he isn't pleased with his brother Maher (in charge of the army) for the brutality he's shown-he also seems to be distancing himself from the acts of the army. It has been said for years that he is simply a puppet for the old guard and his family and it seems this may be true. Hafez Al Assad had to do the same thing with his brother Rifaat who was a violent criminal and tried a coup on him-Hafez succeeded.While Basher should be held accountable, if he defects-the advantage would be that the country would remain intact, and he would bring along with him the support of the alawites and scared minorities-somehow though I don't think he has the gall to stand up to his clan-even if he wants to.

    The country I never thought would become sectarian 5 years ago is now tearing itself apart, people who were one yesterday and quickly dividing into two-it's madness!

    (Sorry for the rant, but this issue is on my mind).

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #2 - February 26, 2012, 09:20 PM

    Quote
    Sorry for the rant, but this issue is on my mind

    Thanks for the post, it's great to get some greater insight.
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #3 - February 26, 2012, 09:36 PM

    I've been spending the last week reading articles, comments, facebook, twitter, videos (as well as talking to Syrians-both family and not), I have a good picture of what is going on atm.

    A good blog worth reading is syriacomment.org, while it's a tad pro-regime in parts, it keeps up with the latest news, and Joshua Landis is one of the few american academics who are worth listening to in this field.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #4 - February 27, 2012, 03:11 PM

    I pretty much agree with all of what Sprout has said. The Syrian revolution is more sectarian than any of the other Arab revolutions. Many are Salafi jihadis from Lebanon and Iraq. The names of the battalions give you a clue about how religious they are. This talk of the US or its allies funding people who once blew up US soldiers (a few thousand lulz) doesn't surprise me one bit. The US regularly calls the same people "terrorists" and then later "freedom fighters" or vice versa. I realised this last night.....

    1980s: Afghans fighting foreigners = Freedom Fighters. Shia Iraqi Islamists blow up US embassy = Terrorists.
    2000s: Afghans fighting foreigners = Terrorists.              Shia Iraqi Islamists (same party!) are 'elected' in Iraq = Democrats.


    American foreign policy  001_wub
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #5 - February 27, 2012, 03:22 PM

    Thanks

    In fairness though, it isn't just America who changes their foreign policy to suit their agenda. Turkey and Saudi Arabia did the same, they were best friends with Assad 2 years ago and now they are trying their best to get rid of his regime-2 years ago they were looking to invest in a cheap emerging economy, and now they are looking to make friends with the next power-holders. The UK did the same with Libya and Egypt.

    So yeah, America changes friends often, but so do most governments.


    I just want to comment on the sectarianism-while these natural sectarian divisions exist to some extent, the reason it's quickly turning into a sectarian war isn't natural tension, but rather the cynical use of the alawite and minority communities by the Assad family to rule. I doubt they care too much about their sect (3.5+million people) and I have alawite friends who have told me that most alawites are poorer today than they were before Assad came along. I see the situation as a manipulation of minority fears so that a few elite alawites can keep power and ill-gotten money. Apparently the shabiha mafia (which does the bidding of the government) used to steal cars from Lebanon during the civil war and the Syrian occupation-and they used to keep the cars for themselves, most of the money went to the Assad family and their immediate friends.

    Anyway, just wanted to point out that the sectarianism we see now isn't because recent tensions, it's more organic and a result of 'divide and rule' politics by the dictators at the top.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #6 - February 27, 2012, 03:33 PM

    True, but no-one lectures and polices the world like the Yanks do  Tongue If they were more like the Chinese (they lie far less) who basically say "yeah we don't care about human rights, its all about the money" then I wouldn't be so critical of the US as much, but yeah they talk a lot of shit and expect people to buy it. As for Turkey, yeah they were pals with Assad until recently, as they were with Ghaddafi. Saudi not as much because he's a shia alawi allied to Iran and Hezbollah and has some balls--still very little but bigger than any other Arab leader.

    I do agree with Assad regime on one thing, they called the "friends of Syria" conference as being the enemies of Syria, I mean since when the GCC monarchies and the likes of Hillary Clinton care about the Syrian people  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #7 - February 27, 2012, 03:36 PM

    That's true-the police thing does get tiresome, I respect that policing may be necessary, but I don't want it done in the name of Haliburton and Exxon Mobil.

    And yes, the conference is far from humanitarian, but I think at this stage the Syrian people will take what they/we can get.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #8 - February 27, 2012, 03:38 PM

    I miss Gaddafi and Saddam.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #9 - February 27, 2012, 03:43 PM

    Gaddafi, I can understand.

    Saddam though?

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #10 - February 27, 2012, 03:45 PM

    And yes, the conference is far from humanitarian, but I think at this stage the Syrian people will take what they/we can get.


    Watch from 1:18 onwards  Tongue

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkg2RAwwe5Q
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #11 - February 27, 2012, 03:47 PM

    Those fucking guys.

     Cry

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #12 - February 27, 2012, 03:49 PM

    The opposition is so Islamist that Israel is basically saying its better to have the devil we know, than the devil we don't  Cheesy
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #13 - February 27, 2012, 03:51 PM

    Now we're fucked-between a rock and a hard place, either we have corrupt neopotistic dictators or we have crazy Islamist-fascist majoritarian dictators.

    That's the problem with most of these Middle Eastern countries, the current governments have been so successful at repressing opposition that the only people who are well-organised enough or popular enough to oppose them are the Islamists-it's not that they are the voice the majority, but they are the voice that shouts the loudest.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #14 - February 27, 2012, 04:09 PM

    They might not be a majority but they certainly have the sympathy of the majority for a number of reasons, one of them being because the dictators have been in bed with the 'free', secular, democratic world for so long  Roll Eyes which is perfect for Islamist rhetoric. There will be Islamist rule for a few years, maybe decades but it will come to an end. In the mean time, I shall enjoy seeing the declining American influence.
  • Re: Syria
     Reply #15 - February 27, 2012, 04:13 PM

    I hope it doesn't come to that.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »