Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?

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- dr_sloth
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Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
OP - August 02, 2012, 12:26 PM

if not, then who is?
- Tonyt
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #1 - August 02, 2012, 12:58 PM

Yeah he is good. The interviews he did with scientists were really good. Did he ever get those translated into Islamic world languages? I translated them into Spanish for him but that is not that useful. I hope someone stepped up and translated them to Arabic, Urdu, etc.

TheRationalizer's videos have not actually been watched that much, they tend to only have a few thousand hits. I have tried to start posting them on other forums to generate traffic (the more hits a video gets the better search results it will get in both google and youtube search).

I also like the videos put out by Klingshor and Hassan.
- Blade Gunner
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #2 - August 02, 2012, 01:13 PM

not sure who's 'the best', but i respect his patience and dedication, that's for sure

''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
- nj7
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #3 - August 02, 2012, 02:03 PM

He's the best I've seen at real time quick thinking, debating, rapport with his opponent, exposing the weakness of Islamic reasoning, though there are many with better knowledge of Islamic texts/history/law. He's unique as far as I know in having such charisma, humour and putting in so much effort, tenaciously hounding various apologists, originality in his arguments and ambition in his projects, all while taking the risk of going on camera.

Others like CaptainDisguise and Klingschor work harder on the research side of things. A real coup would be if an Islamic scholar who knew Arabic left Islam and started debunking it. Debunkers starting from scratch must miss a lot of things despite their hard work researching.

I hope one day there will be someone with his qualities combined with expertise in Qur'anic Arabic, Islamic texts and law beyond the Qur'an and hadith, Islamic history, and first-hand experience in the Islamic world. A combination of Rationalizer, Hassan, and Klingschor/Frank/Godless Saudi from JnT! A good female debunker would bring some excellent new angles.

As more people leave Islam, I hope this person will come along eventually, hopefully quite a few of them!

http://quranspotlight.wordpress.com/
- Tonyt
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #4 - August 02, 2012, 02:52 PM

Quote from: nj7 on August 02, 2012, 02:03 PM
I hope one day there will be someone with his qualities combined with expertise in Qur'anic Arabic

Muslim apologists try to claim that the debunkers do not understand "Quranic Arabic". But actually it is the Koran itself that is ambiguous, not the interpretations of it. Tonnes of people that have studied Classical Arabic and translated the Koran into English have arrived at slightly different meanings for various verses, but the general gist of the verses is usually the same.

I am currently studying written Arabic from a book by Haywood and Nahmad - New Arabic Grammar of the Written Language . I am no expert, but the authors of this book make no distinction between Classical and Modern Arabic Grammar. They teach them both as though they are the same language. Occasionaly they describe how some grammatical styles are mainly used in Classical Arabic and other styles are only used in modern Arabic, but I am most of the way through the book and have only encountered about 5 or 6 differences that they explain so far.

This is extraodinary. It essentially means that written Arabic is an extremely conservative language. There do not appear to be different "rules", but rather different "styles". From what I have learnt so far (and correct me if I am wrong anyone), it seems that if an Arab from the 8th Century came to our time and wrote an article in an Arab newspaper, their grammar would not be wrong, it would simply be out of style. Is this assertion correct?

If the grammar is mostly the same, then the only other difference is the vocab, but the vocab can easily be looked up in a dictionary.

Therefore the Quran should not even be half as mysterious as the Bible. The New Testament is written in "Koine Greek", which has grammatical rules that are pretty similar to modern Greek but by no means identical. There is no way that any book for learning Greek would attempt to teach both Modern Greek and Biblical Greek at once, there are far too many differences in the grammar to do that. Yet any Greek person today can still pick up a copy of the New Testament or the Septuagint in the original "Koine Greek" and understand it. I have not heard many Christians claim that to understand the Bible properly you need to study Biblical Greek.
- dr_sloth
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #5 - August 02, 2012, 04:49 PM

Is there much of this dawah debunking going on in Arabic that I would not know about? and if so, is it as good as the guys in the Jinn and Tonic posse? I think these guys can consider themselves world experts on a particular topic, and I wonder if they have thought about it, or agree.
- strangestdude
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #6 - August 02, 2012, 06:54 PM

I think Rash and Hassan are neck and neck.

Rash has a knack of getting to the root of arguments, and untangling the mess of convoluted dawahganda. He ruthlessly applies occam's razor to the scientific miracle claims.

And Hassan's domain is a value and people centred critique of islam. He was very eloquent and skilled at showing that islamic theology is incongruent with empathy for human well-being.

Rash showed me how to (unconsciously) apply occam's razor to islam, and Hassan made it painfully obvious that I couldn't believe in islamic theology and claim to hold a high regard for human well-being. They both contributed to my deconversion.

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
- strangestdude
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #7 - August 02, 2012, 07:08 PM

Quote from: dr_sloth on August 02, 2012, 04:49 PM
Is there much of this dawah debunking going on in Arabic that I would not know about? and if so, is it as good as the guys in the Jinn and Tonic posse?

http://www.youtube.com/user/ArabAtheistBroadcast

Please sub to them, just to get their numbers up so they gain more popularity.

It's a shame that the J and T show isn't more popular. I think Rash was having a hard time getting some of the youtube muslim personalities to come on the show.

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
- dr_sloth
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #8 - August 02, 2012, 07:27 PM

i am biased towards Rationalizer because the 'science' was the only reason i paid any attention to Islam in the first place. Plus I think the impact of those scientist interview videos will outlive him. A real kick in the balls for scientific dawah.

but i didnt really intend to make this a competition. I do think they are all really good, and they complement each other. kind of like captain planet
- sturmgewehr
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #9 - August 03, 2012, 12:58 AM

Rash is very good, I hope there will be someone as NJ7 described who will start debunking the nonsense Zakir Naik and Hamza are spouting.
- David
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #10 - August 03, 2012, 01:59 AM

Quote from: nj7 on August 02, 2012, 02:03 PM
A good female debunker would bring some excellent new angles.

Come in Ishina, your time is nigh.
- nj7
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #11 - August 03, 2012, 10:18 PM

Quote from: sturmgewehr on August 03, 2012, 12:58 AM
I hope there will be someone as NJ7 described

next time someone joins cemb I might ask them, "are you The One?"

http://quranspotlight.wordpress.com/
- TheRationalizer
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #12 - August 25, 2012, 04:48 PM

Thanks guys. The thing with religion is that it hooks its targets through a number of angles, lies, emotion, guilt, and so on. It takes many different approaches to free someone's mind completely. For me it took a man in a wheel chair to laugh at me, then Dawkins to help me to apply my natural logical thinking to my beliefs, and finally Hitchens to dispel the emotional hook. I used to be ashamed that these Dawagandists fooled me for a while with this science stuff, but philhellenes taught me how utterly wonderful it is to discover you are wrong about something.

On the subject of scholarship, I am idle whereas Klingschor is fantastic. I simply don't have the inclination to waste that much of my time on such a ridiculous subject as Islam. It doesn't look like Klinschor will be able to make it onto the JT panel tonight because he is ill (I hope you will all be watching tonight?)

A Muslim guy named Akber Choudhry will be joining us tonight, I hope we all have a good time.

As for debates, I enjoy the live chats the most. I'd love to do more of them but I find it difficult to get people to agree. If someone is able to get someone interested then send me a PM on here

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- JH121
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Re: Is TheRationalizer the world's greatest dawah debunker?
Reply #13 - October 30, 2012, 08:31 PM

Quote from: nj7 on August 02, 2012, 02:03 PM
I hope one day there will be someone with his qualities combined with expertise in Qur'anic Arabic.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rash mention in one of his videos that he learned/was learning Arabic?
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