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 Topic: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video

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  • dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     OP - December 13, 2011, 07:01 PM

    here is the video from dawah files in response to TheRationalizer's video of flat earth....though i know they are talking bullshit and lies.........does anyone make rebutal to this video ??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYInckurT8k

    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #1 - December 13, 2011, 07:35 PM

    A remarkable video. The way he has managed to stretch such a weak and substanceless rebuttal over 18 minutes is astonishing.

    I especially like the part where he's referencing a source that contradicts him as though it supports him. It's quite a convincing video. For the blind or those who can't read.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #2 - December 13, 2011, 07:46 PM



    Weak counter argument and an irritating accent to boot. 

    On minute 11:16 in the clip - just because it says the earth will look different than it is now (by looking flat), doesn't mean that those Islamic sources are saying the earth is round. It could mean anything that is different about it. (Colder, warmer, noiser, etc.)

    Also, I noticed that he didn't try to explain the meaning behind that ridiculous hadith were Mo tells that gullible, idiotic companion that the sun, when it sets, goes to bow down to Allah's throne.  Roll Eyes

    Get lost, you long bearded twat.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #3 - December 13, 2011, 08:00 PM

    To make a rebuttal against this moronic video is merely Sisyphus-work.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #4 - December 13, 2011, 08:01 PM

    I really don't understand Classical Arabic but if I was someone that speaks Arabic I would have taken my time to do a small research and see what those words meant back then from Old dictionaries and when did certain words start having meaning like Expand, Spherical or Egg.

    I feel so stupid for not being able to understand Arabic and do my research on my own and I have to rely on debunkings others do.

    I think Hassan is someone that has studied Arabic and it would be nice if he gave his thoughts on the subject.

    I wrote him a letter concerning the Expanding Universe he hasn't replied yet though.

  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #5 - December 16, 2011, 03:49 AM

    No response can be made because its an actual refutation backed by facts. The second part of my video will bury the issue completely. You can call it what you want, but I'd actually like to see you guys refute both parts.

    The bottom line is, TheRationalizer failed to prove his point. One of the tafsirs he uses isn't even authentic. The other is later than many of the rests that state the contrary to his position and its also inadequate for a number of other reasons (which is why its popular among anti-Islam apologists), and the only one that actually is authentic and authoritative actually refutes his position all-together.

    Here's one of the major evidences (featured in my next video) that affirms this:

    Ibn Kathir on Surah 24:35

    neither of the east nor of the west

    means, it is not in the eastern part of the land so that it does not get any sun in the first part of the day, nor is it in the western part of the land so that it is shaded from the sun before sunset, but it is in a central position where it gets sun from the beginning of the day until the end, so its oil is good and pure and shining.
    __________________________________________

    Please explain how TheRationalizer's model...or the concept of a flat earth in general, can allow for this to happen? The answer? It can't. Only with a spherical earth is this possible.

    As for the other claims in his video (including the hadith), I refute them easily. Watch.


  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #6 - December 16, 2011, 04:08 AM

    therationalizer is gone, dude. he has a life, unlike you. but i'm sure you're waiting for allah subhanahuwataalah to give you a better life in the hereafter. mashallah, tabaarakallah, koftakabab.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #7 - December 16, 2011, 04:47 AM

    "TheRationalizer has a life, unlike you..."

    Yeah...okay. That explains why he has a shorter time for output in videos and participated on an online show bashing Islam while I have 2 jobs, grad school, traveling and he kept pestering me for over a month to release a response video to him.

    Right...
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #8 - December 16, 2011, 04:51 AM

    anyone who talks about islam bashes islam, because islam bashes itself.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #9 - December 16, 2011, 04:56 AM

    Let's keep things civil, people.  Smiley

    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #10 - December 16, 2011, 09:51 AM

    Hey Kevin, are you still residing in Malaysia?

    If you still do, please pack up your stuff and get the hell out. The thought of people like you living here makes me sick.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #11 - December 16, 2011, 09:57 AM

    Hey Kevin, are you still residing in Malaysia?

    If you still do, please pack up your stuff and get the hell out.  The thought of people like you living here makes me sick.

    truth_seeker..cool down.. you draw your guns quicker than gunslingers of west..

    ....TheRationalizer failed to prove his point.  ....

    well we all fail in one thing  or other thing OR one time or other times. And we are all stupid in one time or other time.  That is not a big deal.  please continue to read and write,  we will prove that  Dawahfilms and its group is still need to be evolved and are still filled with  Reptilian  brain. But  we are willing work with what ever brain that  comes in to CEMB.. Please tell more of those Dawahfilms guys to join CEMB..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #12 - December 16, 2011, 12:16 PM


    That above video of  Ex Muslims Flat Earth (1)  is a good one ., That guy did a great job until 4 minutes and 15 seconds..  

    But I am curious about this guy  hamzah938 ., I wonder whether it is Dawahfilms himself or different guy and I wonder  our truth_seeker had any  communication with that hamzah938..


    Anyway I hate watching tubes ., it would have been better if that  Dawahfilms  wrote same thing that I hear in that video in   a word format ..  well let me listen to that video bit more than 4mts..


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #13 - December 16, 2011, 01:38 PM

    Here's one of the major evidences (featured in my next video) that affirms this:

    Ibn Kathir on Surah 24:35

    neither of the east nor of the west

    means, it is not in the eastern part of the land so that it does not get any sun in the first part of the day, nor is it in the western part of the land so that it is shaded from the sun before sunset, but it is in a central position where it gets sun from the beginning of the day until the end, so its oil is good and pure and shining.
    __________________________________________

    Please explain how TheRationalizer's model...or the concept of a flat earth in general, can allow for this to happen? The answer? It can't. Only with a spherical earth is this possible.

    As for the other claims in his video (including the hadith), I refute them easily. Watch.





    Here's the page from ibn kathir on 24:35

    Right underneath that quote it says the opposite of what you think your quote means:

    Quote
    (an olive, neither of the east nor of the west,) "This is a tree in the desert which is not shaded by any other tree or mountain or cave, nothing covers it, and this is best for its oil.'' Mujahid commented on:

    (neither of the east nor of the west, ) saying; "It is not in the east where it will get no sun when the sun sets, nor is it in the west where it will get no sun when the sun rises, but it is in a position where it will get sun both at sunrise and sunset.'' Sa`id bin Jubayr commented:

    (an olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself)) "This is the best kind of oil. When the sun rises it reaches the tree from the east and when it sets it reaches it from the west, so the sun reaches it morning and evening, so it is not counted as being in the east or in the west.''


    It seems most plausible (esp. seeing what ibn Abbas reportedly says) from this that the Qur'anic phrase simply means an olive tree that isn't on the eastern or western sides of a slope/mountain or near another obstruction, but rather it is in an open space in view of the sun all day long. It doesn't tell us anything about whether ibn Kathir thought the earth was flat or round (not that his view is particularly significant in determining what the author of the Qur'an thought, given the late date).

    Here's the arabic ibn Kathir for your own quote (end of middle paragraph). I'm not sure the translator got the first part right as it doesn't make sense as a whole. The phrase "nor is it in the western part of the land so that it is shaded from the sun before sunset" fits the other quote I gave (if it was on the west side of the slope it would get no direct light til the latter part of the day). Where it's confusing is the translation of the first part of the sentence, "it is not in the eastern part of the land so that it does not get any sun in the first part of the day". With that translation, it is nonsensically saying that the tree is not of the east where it would get no sun in the first part of the day, nor of the west which would have the same result (not til before sunset). I don't see how it would make sense if it's talking about the east/west side of a spherical earth either.

    Even if ibn Kathir's view matters, there's other of stuff where he says the sky/heavens is a dome above earth or he gives reports of someone that suggests 7 flat earths and suggests he has the same view. Maybe you can find stuff suggesting a spherical view. Maybe ibn Kathir wasn't sure himself. It's probably possible to make a case each way and I suspect this topic will remain inconclusive.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #14 - December 16, 2011, 03:19 PM

    What's funny is that the "scientific miracles" of the Quran which are parroted by the likes of Zakir Naik are being refuted my Muslims themselves.

    Hamza Tzortzis has refuted the Keith Moore embryology crap, and DawahFilms has called bullshit on the "dahaha" and "egg shaped" stuff.

    Long may this continue...

    .
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #15 - December 16, 2011, 03:28 PM

    @ Shahid Raza, that is what I was thinking too, these people can't come to a common decision and answer to those stuff and you know why Huh? Because whatever says in the Quran is plane vague and anyone can translate it as they wish

  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #16 - December 16, 2011, 03:30 PM

    @ Shahid Raza, that is what I was thinking too, these people can't come to a common decision and answer to those stuff and you know why Huh? Because whatever says in the Quran is plane vague and anyone can translate it as they wish


    well flies go around & around .... and Quran is ....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #17 - December 16, 2011, 05:27 PM

    What's funny is that the "scientific miracles" of the Quran which are parroted by the likes of Zakir Naik are being refuted my Muslims themselves.

    Hamza Tzortzis has refuted the Keith Moore embryology crap, and DawahFilms has called bullshit on the "dahaha" and "egg shaped" stuff.

    Long may this continue...


    Well, I find it odd that so many Muslims, who are supposed to be educated about their religion in these regions (apparently not, but no offense to them nonetheless) are advocating this nonsense. Most of our major scholars in the past did not advocate this view.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #18 - December 16, 2011, 05:29 PM

    Here's the page from ibn kathir on 24:35

    Right underneath that quote it says the opposite of what you think your quote means:

    It seems most plausible (esp. seeing what ibn Abbas reportedly says) from this that the Qur'anic phrase simply means an olive tree that isn't on the eastern or western sides of a slope/mountain or near another obstruction, but rather it is in an open space in view of the sun all day long. It doesn't tell us anything about whether ibn Kathir thought the earth was flat or round (not that his view is particularly significant in determining what the author of the Qur'an thought, given the late date).

    Here's the arabic ibn Kathir for your own quote (end of middle paragraph). I'm not sure the translator got the first part right as it doesn't make sense as a whole. The phrase "nor is it in the western part of the land so that it is shaded from the sun before sunset" fits the other quote I gave (if it was on the west side of the slope it would get no direct light til the latter part of the day). Where it's confusing is the translation of the first part of the sentence, "it is not in the eastern part of the land so that it does not get any sun in the first part of the day". With that translation, it is nonsensically saying that the tree is not of the east where it would get no sun in the first part of the day, nor of the west which would have the same result (not til before sunset). I don't see how it would make sense if it's talking about the east/west side of a spherical earth either.

    Even if ibn Kathir's view matters, there's other of stuff where he says the sky/heavens is a dome above earth or he gives reports of someone that suggests 7 flat earths and suggests he has the same view. Maybe you can find stuff suggesting a spherical view. Maybe ibn Kathir wasn't sure himself. It's probably possible to make a case each way and I suspect this topic will remain inconclusive.


    They followed a geocentric model based on the Ptolemic System. The orbits could go horizontally and not vertically in said system. If you also read Ibn Kathir (and even Tafsir al-Jalalayn, despite the flat earth endorsement) you will find that they both believed the sun was "far away" from the Earth.

    Also note, if these mountains at the edge were even conceived, the sun would still give light throughout the day to every point on Earth if it was flat because the mountains would block the sun from either extreme point.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #19 - December 16, 2011, 05:30 PM

    Hey Kevin, are you still residing in Malaysia?

    If you still do, please pack up your stuff and get the hell out. The thought of people like you living here makes me sick.


    It would be better if you just had a tetarik with me and cooled down.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #20 - December 16, 2011, 05:49 PM

    Quote
    Hey Kevin, are you still residing in Malaysia?

    If you still do, please pack up your stuff and get the hell out. The thought of people like you living here makes me sick.


    It would be better if you just had a tetarik with me and cooled down.



    see that truth_seeker.. Dawahfilms is such a nice guy you got to seek some TRUTH from Dawahfilms  dear T-S.,   Go and drink some Tea.. Te Tarik .. put some Quran in to when you are drinking.. or may be Hadith..add that fly  wing.,  add it in to it..   It is pure science .


    Good to see you  and glad to read you Dawahfilms

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #21 - December 16, 2011, 06:28 PM

    Dawafilms, I think there is no way around, you can twist and turn the words as much as u want u can do as many mental acrobatics as you want the fact is that in the Quran the Earth is considered flat.

    By the simple logic that the Sun rises in some muddy waters or the fact that we should fight our enemies till the edge of the world or the fact that the Heavens have been lifted up shows that they knew the world was flat.

    End of story.

    The rest is just a game of words and mental acrobatics and makes no sense.

  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #22 - December 16, 2011, 06:28 PM

    "TheRationalizer has a life, unlike you..."

    Yeah...okay. That explains why he has a shorter time for output in videos and participated on an online show bashing Islam while I have 2 jobs, grad school, traveling and he kept pestering me for over a month to release a response video to him.

    Right...


    Ignore Abood he is being an idiot. I wanted to ask you a question, how do you choose what source to use. I think Muhammed might have thought the earth to be flat, and the reason for this is the hadith, the hadith, Burkari and Muslim are considered by mainstream Sunni Muslims just as important as the Qu'ran, and in these hadith Muhammed tries to describe earth and the sun, he basically states that the sun is running along a set path, and hides under the throne of Allah, and then Allah gives it permission and then the sun comes out etc. The description basically is a semicircle in the sky from the perspective of a human standing on the earth and looking up at the sky. I think Muhammed thought the earth was flat.

    Sahih Al-Bukhari
    Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
    Narrated Abu Dharr:
    The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’" (36.38)

    Volume 9, Book 93, Number 520:
    Narrated Abu Dharr:
    I entered the mosque while Allah's Apostle was sitting there. When the sun had set, the Prophet said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where this (sun) goes?" I said, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and asks permission to prostrate, and it is allowed, and (one day) it, as if being ordered to return whence it came, then it will rise from the west." Then the Prophet recited, "That: ‘And the sun runs on its fixed course (for a term decreed)," (36.38) as it is recited by ‘Abdullah.

    Volume 9, Book 93, Number 528:
    Narrated Abu Dharr:
    I asked the Prophet regarding the Verse:--'And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term decreed for it.' (36.28) He said, "Its fixed course is underneath Allah's Throne."

    Sahih Muslim

    Book 001, Number 0297:
    It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything (unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.

  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #23 - December 16, 2011, 06:34 PM

    Ignore Abood he is being an idiot.  ...................


    Sharam ana chaiyaye isi bath karneke liye  in front of Dawahfilms  King Tut

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #24 - December 16, 2011, 06:38 PM

    lol, what a load of rubbish.  Cheesy Can't believe anyone with half a brain cell would still believe in Muhammed's claims that he is a prophet of God. Fuck off, you ignorant twats.

  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #25 - December 16, 2011, 06:39 PM

    Dawafilms, I think there is no way around, you can twist and turn the words as much as u want u can do as many mental acrobatics as you want the fact is that in the Quran the Earth is considered flat.

    By the simple logic that the Sun rises in some muddy waters or the fact that we should fight our enemies till the edge of the world or the fact that the Heavens have been lifted up shows that they knew the world was flat.

    End of story.

    The rest is just a game of words and mental acrobatics and makes no sense.


    Where's that hadith? I don't think I've read it before.  dance
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #26 - December 16, 2011, 06:41 PM

    lol, what a load of rubbish.  Cheesy Can't believe anyone with half a brain cell would still believe in Muhammed's claims that he is a prophet of God. Fuck off, you ignorant twats.



     You are wrong Demba.. you are wrong.. Muhammad.. Prophet of Islam never claimed he was a Prophet of God neither he claimed he was messenger of God


     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #27 - December 16, 2011, 06:42 PM

    Eh?  Roll Eyes
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #28 - December 16, 2011, 06:48 PM

    Dawafilms, I think there is no way around, you can twist and turn the words as much as u want u can do as many mental acrobatics as you want the fact is that in the Quran the Earth is considered flat.

    By the simple logic that the Sun rises in some muddy waters or the fact that we should fight our enemies till the edge of the world or the fact that the Heavens have been lifted up shows that they knew the world was flat.

    End of story.

    The rest is just a game of words and mental acrobatics and makes no sense.


    Mental acrobatics? Well, in the very least I can say, at least one of us is doing something with our brain in regards to these issues.
  • Re: dawah films responding to TheRationalizer's flat earth video
     Reply #29 - December 16, 2011, 06:51 PM

    Dawafilms, why do you have to act so insecure ?

    you know well what I meant by Mental Acrobatics don't try to play like u don't understand it.

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