Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square

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- godless
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #30 - November 28, 2011, 04:15 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on November 28, 2011, 04:11 PM
I didn't say they should have NOT gone to Egypt.,

I know I am bad and you seem to be working in a law firm godless., But that is reality of life.,
No..no please stay., If people like me don't read people like you., how can we change??

These discussions and debates are important steps. Off course if you are doing something and short of time., you should go but don't go just because you are upset with my posts..

with best regards
yeezevee

I'll come back if you want to, but right now I have been spending lots of time here and neglecting my other tasks. No problem coming back if you want. I may not have expressed myself clearly, but I hope you got the general drift of what I was trying to say. I know you are not saying the men are right, I am just examining the reaction you had, it's more of a question on my part on why you'd react like that, than anything else.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #31 - November 28, 2011, 04:20 PM

And trying to get to the bottom of why you don't see the point of me wondering about if you think your religion encourages this lynching, because you seem to insinuate it. I don't know if you see that. Take care, and thanks for the friendly word.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #32 - November 28, 2011, 04:21 PM

Quote from: godless on November 28, 2011, 04:10 PM
Have I hit a nerve? lol

Not at all. But now I'm curious: why would it be funny if you had struck a nerve with what you just wrote?

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #33 - November 28, 2011, 04:28 PM

I lolled out of shock at the emotions you expressed. I don't think any of this is funny. I believe in human rights and I feel strongly about them. Nobody has the right to do what those men have done, no matter how angry they got that the woman didn't obey their code. I cover up when I go to my in-laws (and even in my own way when they come to Europe) and I take care not to shock people, but I believe people have the right to dress like her without getting finger raped. I saw girls in miniskirts getting gawked at in my hubby's village but no-one approached them. They are generally rather civil and dignified people over there.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #34 - November 28, 2011, 04:33 PM

Ah right, you thought I was getting angry. You think you are capable of making me angry.

You're not even on my radar, darling. I'm just laughing because you said something really really stupid.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #35 - November 28, 2011, 04:36 PM

Still very pissed, I see. Listen, I need to go. And lucky, because I am not here to have a conversation based on what we exchanged. I prefer real conversation, instead of just expressing negativity for the sake of it. My exchange with you is not based on anything with substance. I have more time for Yeezevee but not for you, sorry. Bye.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #36 - November 28, 2011, 04:38 PM

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
- yeezevee
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #37 - November 28, 2011, 04:41 PM

Quote from: godless on November 28, 2011, 04:28 PM
I lolled out of shock at the emotions you expressed. I don't think any of this is funny. I believe in human rights and I feel strongly about them. Nobody has the right to do what those men have done, no matter how angry they got that the woman didn't obey their code.

I don't think those men were angry godless

Quote
I cover up when I go to my in-laws (and even in my own way when they come to Europe) and I take care not to shock people,

You are a nice person., you are not a Godless person.. it is wonderful to dress properly infront of your in-laws.. Tell him Your hubby.. he is a lucky guy..

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but I believe people have the right to dress like her without getting finger raped.

do you think we.. the folks here believe those women journalists should get finger raped? how did you come to that conclusion?

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I saw girls in miniskirts getting gawked at in my hubby's village but no-one approached them. They are generally rather civil and dignified people over there

well may be those women are Not from foreign countries., those girls know the men., Usually In Islamic countries Muslims women however skimpy they dress Muslim men are generally rather civil and dignified..

but it is possible Mullahs may beat them up for dress code..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VeUsi4ubUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yngwkrCSu0Q

do you understand that language Godless?

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #38 - November 28, 2011, 05:40 PM

Hi, I am back for a very short while.

1. Why don't you think they were angry - you were saying her attire provoked something, if not anger, what then? Desire? I don't think so, because their acts are aggression, there is a hatred and contempt in them.

2. My hubby lucky? It is him that inspires me to please him, he's a wife's dream. And his parents are so warm, gentle and loving towards me, that I can only be respectful towards them. I am the lucky one...

3. I don't say you believe they should get finger raped (see my previous post)

4. Let me ask you a very simple question. Why would you send me all those video's about how muslim women should behave if you do not link those men with islam? Can you understand why this jumps out at me like a sore thumb? If you are a muslim, and you are saying that this happened because of muslim values, what are you saying about islam? and about yourself? These are questions for your mind, you don't need to answer them right now, just think about it.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #39 - November 28, 2011, 05:41 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on November 28, 2011, 04:41 PM

do you understand that language Godless?

PS I don't understand. what are they saying?
- yeezevee
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #40 - November 28, 2011, 11:54 PM

Hi.. godless
Quote from: godless on November 28, 2011, 05:41 PM
PS I don't understand. what are they saying?

Oh ! ok.. that is all right may be your hubby might understand that language.. I will explain you later if he can not..

I am just curious, do you really think that there is NO god godless?? or you think there is some guiding force which you may call it as god but all religious scriptures completely screwed it up??

well the question is, Are you really an atheist or atheist with reference to scriptures but agnostic with reference to your personal god??

any ways it is very nice to read people like you .. By the way Ishina is very smart and highly educated person..

Quote from: godless on November 28, 2011, 05:40 PM
Hi, I am back for a very short while.

i am glad to see your response please tell your friends and well wishers about this forum.. May be your hubby could join and remove the misconception these folks have about religions in general Islam in particular.
Quote
1. Why don't you think they were angry - you were saying her attire provoked something, if not anger, what then? Desire? I don't think so, because their acts are aggression, there is a hatred and contempt in them.

I don't think they were angry at her, and I am not sure about the desire, It appears more like a pack mentality. I guess it is a combination of things along with her terrified looks, They were taught western women are whores.. they sleep with any one and everyone any time and they enjoy groping ..etc..etc.. from their childhood including by their preachers + add to that segregation of sexes in schools and sexual frustration and easy chance to victimize .. so many factors come in to the picture
Quote
2. My hubby lucky? It is him that inspires me to please him, he's a wife's dream. And his parents are so warm, gentle and loving towards me, that I can only be respectful towards them. I am the lucky one...

Oh ! you are so nice person.. Yes.. you are also lucky to have a wonderful person as your life partner + added bonus of his nice family. How about your parents ? are they also happy with your hubby and his family??

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3. I don't say you believe they should get finger raped (see my previous post)

then why do you even mention this
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"but I believe people have the right to dress like her without getting finger raped".

not only me and you, I am pretty sure ALL THE MEMBERS OF CEMB believe in your statement

Quote
4. Let me ask you a very simple question. Why would you send me all those video's about how muslim women should behave if you do not link those men with islam?
Can you understand why this jumps out at me like a sore thumb?

Why do you send?? I am sorry.. I did not send any videos to you, I have NOT sent a personal message/e-mail to you ? what videos are you talking??

Quote
If you are a muslim, and you are saying that this happened because of muslim values, what are you saying about islam? and about yourself? These are questions for your mind, you don't need to answer them right now, just think about it.

I didn't say, it happened because of Muslim values and I am not really a Muslim following Islam and I am not saying anything about Islam and men to start with.

I was only talking about Islam and its rules for women folks working outside of her home.. Off course I will think about it again.. but.. but you could explain bit more on what you are thinking about my thinking on that subject..

with best regards
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #41 - November 29, 2011, 10:15 AM

"These women don't understand Islamic values and they don't think why Muslims women are not there there in that Tahir Square specially after Mubrak was over thrown.. "

that is what you said.

About you sending videos, well, you did, on this thread, as replies to me.

"then why do you even mention this"

because I thought you are muslim, the way you send those videos denigrating western people (as well as other posts of yours on this forum), and therefore associating yourself with this mob as muslim people. Understand that you had not made yourself clear as regards right and wrong, you just sent mixed messages about what islam wants for women (which I obviously take as a judgment of the journalist) and of course your sending hate material on western women long before expressing any disapproval of the finger raping. If you thought this is unislmaic, why do you mix it with "islamic values" I think you may deliberately be using mixed messages to provoke people and I fell for it. You keep on about "I said", "I didn't say" but your posts are provocative, insiduously or not. I see this as a kind of a trolling and it does not fall into my perception of good communication.

"I don't think they wer angry at her.. an d I am not sure about desire., I guess it is a combination of things along with her terrified looks., They were taught western women are whores.. they sleep with any one and everyone any time and they enjoy groping ..etc..etc.. from their childhood including by their preachers + add to that segregation of sexes in schools and sexual frustration and easy chance to victimize .. so many factors come in to the picture "

So, yes, you are saying islam has something (big) to do with it.

And, yes, I am a total atheist. I do not believe in a god nor a religion. At all.

About Ishina, really I don't care. Just another troll to me.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #42 - November 29, 2011, 10:28 AM

I need to take a break, I have not spoken this intensely to anyone in a while and it's tiring me. Also realising how futile it is puts me off. I think I am saturated with the subject of religion. My presence on this forum was a necessary experiment, but now I see it's not for me.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #43 - November 29, 2011, 11:57 AM

Please come back when you've reflected a little, Godless. I like your direct style and obvious sense of justice. Like you, I have a western background and, although an atheist for 50 years, I still sometimes find myself rooted in 'cultural' christianity. Things as fundamental as that are hardwired into the brain and difficult to shift.
Yezeevee, too, even though he's a miserable (seemingly) trolling sinner, is in fact one of the most perceptive and self-deprecating (to the point of self-mockery) folks on here. You've only had 70 posts on here: that's not long enough to find out who people really are - people like Yezeevee who, although a 'cultural' muslim (I think), recognises the implicit ironies between belief and practice there and attacks it with a wicked, damning mockery whilst keeping his sense of pragmatism.
One does not have to be Mr/Mrs Angry/offended in the overt sense, all the time. I read Yezeevee to be aware what it's like to see Muslim phenomena from an ex- muslim perspective, done with a leavened humour and humanity and in that way generates more light than heat if taken with an open mind. It took a long time to accept other people's realities.

I once started a new job and on the first day, my new boss took me out to lunch and showed me my new territory. We looked at 20 miles of river bank and visited dozens of clients. Over lunch he asked me what I thought needed doing most urgently, so looking at the list of improvements I thought I'd so cleverly made on the way around, I went through them. He listened attentively, thought a bit, and then said, 'Maybe later, but first I want you to sit back and look at the job for a month or two - and then get back to me and tell me what you need.'
Sitting back was difficult but it helped to wipe away the superficiality of my first encounter with my new workplace. My new list was just as long but it was a completely different list.'
So, Godless, my advice is to sit back and look at the job.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #44 - November 29, 2011, 03:08 PM

Heck.

Is there an argument about a misunderstanding here?
Better clear up my misunderstanding(s) first.

Is Islam what Muslim men do to women who are not dressed according to the rules of their particular sect?

Does Islam have nothing to do with Mullahs preaching that Western women deserve to be raped because of the way they dress?

Does Islam have nothing to do with the attempted rape of several female journalists in Egypt, since the Egyptian revolution began?

Does Islam have nothing to do with Islamic traditions and customs which have piled up to reinforce each other over 1400 centuries?

And how can we get definitive answers for such questions when Islam is far from monolithic and when (thankfully) even within a sect every individual Muslim is different?
These questions regard Egypt can't be considered, surely, without considering the experiences (not just recent) of Christian women in Egypt.
But even now there is no definitive answer worth falling out about.

Or if there is, can anyone explain it to me simple, 'cause I'm too dumb to work it out?

"And you, you are a fantasy, a view from where you'd like to think the world should see, just be true, and you will likely find a few building a vision, doing justice to our times."
Roy Harper, addressing the doorstep evangelists, dawa-doers and other self-appointed representitives.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #45 - November 29, 2011, 07:07 PM

Quote from: sojournerlumus on November 29, 2011, 11:57 AM
Please come back when you've reflected a little, Godless. I like your direct style and obvious sense of justice. Like you, I have a western background and, although an atheist for 50 years, I still sometimes find myself rooted in 'cultural' christianity. Things as fundamental as that are hardwired into the brain and difficult to shift.
Yezeevee, too, even though he's a miserable (seemingly) trolling sinner, is in fact one of the most perceptive and self-deprecating (to the point of self-mockery) folks on here. You've only had 70 posts on here: that's not long enough to find out who people really are - people like Yezeevee who, although a 'cultural' muslim (I think), recognises the implicit ironies between belief and practice there and attacks it with a wicked, damning mockery whilst keeping his sense of pragmatism.
One does not have to be Mr/Mrs Angry/offended in the overt sense, all the time. I read Yezeevee to be aware what it's like to see Muslim phenomena from an ex- muslim perspective, done with a leavened humour and humanity and in that way generates more light than heat if taken with an open mind. It took a long time to accept other people's realities.

I once started a new job and on the first day, my new boss took me out to lunch and showed me my new territory. We looked at 20 miles of river bank and visited dozens of clients. Over lunch he asked me what I thought needed doing most urgently, so looking at the list of improvements I thought I'd so cleverly made on the way around, I went through them. He listened attentively, thought a bit, and then said, 'Maybe later, but first I want you to sit back and look at the job for a month or two - and then get back to me and tell me what you need.'
Sitting back was difficult but it helped to wipe away the superficiality of my first encounter with my new workplace. My new list was just as long but it was a completely different list.'
So, Godless, my advice is to sit back and look at the job.

Hi there, thanks for your good thoughts. You know, I am not angry, really, because I know we are all different. And my wishing to leave has nothing to do with fast judgments. I leave a gap of course for the eventuality that Yeezevee might be genuinely confused and his posts may just be an expression of that inner battle. there are things I appreciate about the guy. But I am not willing to do the work of figuring it out. I am genuinely mentally tired of this conversation. you see, I communicate very little in real life about poignant issues. I was married to a psychopath and have dealt with some "interesting" friendships due to a very open mind, an open heart and a genuine love of the human condition and since then I developed a social phobia. since that, I have kept communication extremely simple in my life and I am a painful introvert and often have agoraphobia. In a nutshell, I don't get out much. I manage to hide this side of me well in my daily dealings and rarely does anyone pick up anything. Only my husband and my mom really know, and my sisters in law suspect that I'm very much of a hermit. They would like to get out more and I am happy to stay in a restricted environment. That is why I work from home. So, you see, it is a bit complex. I communicate best with very direct people and with hubby we talk from the heart mostly rather than from the mind. I am very lucky in that regard, he is not analytical, he is very simple to communicate with, and very predictable.

I am waiting for admin to delete my profile, as I don't have the option of my profile page. I dread more paraphrasing sessions lol!! I really don't like repeating myself a lot and this has done my head in
Thanks again.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #46 - November 29, 2011, 07:09 PM

Quote from: peaceheretic on November 29, 2011, 03:08 PM
Heck.

Is there an argument about a misunderstanding here?
Better clear up my misunderstanding(s) first.

Is Islam what Muslim men do to women who are not dressed according to the rules of their particular sect?

Does Islam have nothing to do with Mullahs preaching that Western women deserve to be raped because of the way they dress?

Does Islam have nothing to do with the attempted rape of several female journalists in Egypt, since the Egyptian revolution began?

Does Islam have nothing to do with Islamic traditions and customs which have piled up to reinforce each other over 1400 centuries?

And how can we get definitive answers for such questions when Islam is far from monolithic and when (thankfully) even within a sect every individual Muslim is different?
These questions regard Egypt can't be considered, surely, without considering the experiences (not just recent) of Christian women in Egypt.
But even now there is no definitive answer worth falling out about.

Or if there is, can anyone explain it to me simple, 'cause I'm too dumb to work it out?

nice to know I'm not alone in that conundrum
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #47 - November 30, 2011, 10:59 AM

Quote
Quote from: peaceheretic on November 29, 2011, 03:08 PM
Heck.

Is there an argument about a misunderstanding here?
Better clear up my misunderstanding(s) first.

Is Islam what Muslim men do to women who are not dressed according to the rules of their particular sect?

Does Islam have nothing to do with Mullahs preaching that Western women deserve to be raped because of the way they dress?

Does Islam have nothing to do with the attempted rape of several female journalists in Egypt, since the Egyptian revolution began?

Does Islam have nothing to do with Islamic traditions and customs which have piled up to reinforce each other over 1400 centuries?

And how can we get definitive answers for such questions when Islam is far from monolithic and when (thankfully) even within a sect every individual Muslim is different?
These questions regard Egypt can't be considered, surely, without considering the experiences (not just recent) of Christian women in Egypt.
But even now there is no definitive answer worth falling out about.

Or if there is, can anyone explain it to me simple, 'cause I'm too dumb to work it out?

Quote from: godless on November 29, 2011, 07:09 PM
nice to know I'm not alone in that conundrum

Hi godless and peaceheretic.. I too..I too.. I too join you guys ..

My line of thinking is inline with you guys., Off course I may not agree everything you say but I am in line and right behind you guys..

So how do we answer those questions godless and peaceheretic?

with best wishes to both of you..
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #48 - November 30, 2011, 05:28 PM

Let me just clear this up. Yeezevee is not saying the woman is to blame, nor that this is mandated in Islamic scripture.

I think he is saying that the Islamic work guidelines of men and women being separate have made the problem worse, and that women who live in the area would have been aware enough of the circumstances to have avoided it.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #49 - November 30, 2011, 06:10 PM

@the rationalizer

I do understand that. I just wanted to ask him to explain his stance on islam in the light of him rationalizing the events having taken place in a muslim society and how he positions himself as a muslim in the light of this. But he has great escape skills I do think...the question was very personal about his relationship with islam as I have been led to believe he is a muslim. Of course the posting of weird islamic propaganda did nothing to enlighten me as to his position on how he feels about his religion (on a social level). It only drove me deeper into the question. I think I may have problems expressing myself, but it became so complicated so quickly.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #50 - November 30, 2011, 06:14 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on November 30, 2011, 10:59 AM
Hi godless and peaceheretic.. I too..I too.. I too join you guys ..

My line of thinking is inline with you guys., Off course I may not agree everything you say but I am in line and right behind you guys..

So how do we answer those questions godless and peaceheretic?

with best wishes to both of you..
yeezevee

Hey there. Honestly, I don't know... I think it may not need an answer, I was trying to find out where you are at in what you think islam does to its followers, but you have answered half of my query. I guess this kind of questioning comes from my black and white attitude towards morality, which led me to stop cherry-picking christian values and take a firm stand against the entire movement. You will understand me better if you know I am an anti-theist. I like morality without all the baggage. You could say I worship at the altar of simplicity... I much perfer maths, physics and chemistry...
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #51 - November 30, 2011, 06:16 PM

Quote from: neale on November 25, 2011, 03:34 PM
My abiding memory of Egypt when I went on holiday there was not the pyramids and the like, it was the near total absence of women on the streets.

Huh? I was just there yesterday and there were tons of women on the streets in Cairo, Alexandria, Tanta, everywhere I went.

fuck you
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #52 - November 30, 2011, 06:19 PM

Lol, not that those sciences are simple, but at least they are lean and mean...deboned and degreased if you know what I mean! something I can trust. Truth is such a magnificent ideal, rather than faith (in my opinion).
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #53 - December 01, 2011, 12:03 PM

I hope Alia is all right. If it was Alia, it's obvious that she is known and loved by people here.

Is she a poster on this board?

"And you, you are a fantasy, a view from where you'd like to think the world should see, just be true, and you will likely find a few building a vision, doing justice to our times."
Roy Harper, addressing the doorstep evangelists, dawa-doers and other self-appointed representitives.
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Re: Video of harassment of a girl resembling Alia in Tahrir Square
Reply #54 - December 04, 2011, 08:41 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siWK2b-7vIo

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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