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 Topic: Why'd it take me so long to find this place

 (Read 2482 times)
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  • Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     OP - October 22, 2011, 01:43 AM

    I've been an atheist for like 8 years now... you'd think I'd have found other ex-muslims on the internet before now.

    Anyway, hello. I'm an arab living in the US. I grew up in the middle east but then immigrated with the family when I was in middle school. I became an atheist when I was 17, and more or less tried to ignore religion and Islam, though these days I feel like I need to be as open about it as possible and to make atheistic noises to whoever will listen. Still haven't told my family but planning on it soon.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #1 - October 22, 2011, 01:45 AM

    hi. good to see more people from the US. how did you become an atheist?

    I wish parents everywhere could remove their veil of religion and see their kids for whom they actually are.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #2 - October 22, 2011, 01:48 AM

    Welcome, Almulhida!  bunny

    Mind telling us how you found this forum? And why you ended up leaving Islam? It's customary to grill new members, just go with it.

    "I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want."
    Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #3 - October 22, 2011, 01:49 AM

    Welcome!  parrot
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #4 - October 22, 2011, 02:06 AM

    hi and welcome..
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #5 - October 22, 2011, 02:26 AM

    How I left Islam? It's a boring story, but it's your funeral. Basically in history class I learned about the enlightenment sometime when I was 16, and more or less instantly took to the idea that reason and rationality is something to be encouraged in yourself. Then I came into contact with the idea that faith and reason are incompatible and immediately rejected it. I felt this was something Christians had to tell each other in order to hold onto their faith. If they had grew up Muslim, they'd know of Islam's superior logical consistency! I was reading Ibn Sina around this time and adopted his view that faith and reason are complimentary.

    Anyway, at some point I learned of the concept of internal consistency, and figured that's a good thing to have too. You know how your brain is when you're young, it's like a concept sponge. You learn a new concept and you start applying it everywhere indiscriminately. It's like giving a four year old power tools; they go straight for the walls. I figured my beliefs about God had to be internally consistent (there was no reason to think of it as internal consistency rather than just simple logical consistency, but 16 years old...) and this turned out to be a powerful rationalization tool. Everytime I had a religious belief challenged, I would simply change it, and in ironing out the contradictions I thought I was moving closer to the truth about God.

    Well I was arguing with an atheist online sometime after I turned 17 and basically told him how I conceived of religion. He figured since I cared about internal consistency, he'd grill me and point out instances where my beliefs contradicted each other. I played along, he pointed out some problem, though I no longer remember what he pointed out. I dodged it entirely by some bullshit I made up on the spot, and he actually conceded the point. I walked away from the argument feeling all smug, except for one thing. I realized that I had completely changed what I believed the moment he pointed out the contradiction, and this shook me. My religious beliefs couldn't possibly be that plastic. This caused enough cognitive dissonance that I sat down some friday night after school and went into deep thought to iron out the problem.

    I didn't start the line of thought questioning my beliefs, I was just bothered that after a year of attempting to marry faith and reason I ended up with a set of religious beliefs that were very different than what I grew up with. Thinking on this for a while, I realized that you could have infinite internally consistent theologies and internal consistency alone wasn't enough, you had to find some empirical support. So I figured I'd start at the source. Where did my beliefs come from? Well, my parents. Where did they get it from? Their parents, and so on until the prophet himself. How do we know the prophet existed and was the messenger and such? Well that was easy, the Quran, which we can trust because it's a miracle. How do I know, no matter how miraculous it may or may not be, that a sufficiently clever man didn't write it?

    Uh, I don't.

    And then I was an atheist.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #6 - October 22, 2011, 02:41 AM

    Welcome almulhida Smiley

    Well I was arguing with an atheist online sometime after I turned 17 and basically told him how I conceived of religion. He figured since I cared about internal consistency, he'd grill me and point out instances where my beliefs contradicted each other. I played along, he pointed out some problem, though I no longer remember what he pointed out. I dodged it entirely by some bullshit I made up on the spot, and he actually conceded the point. I walked away from the argument feeling all smug, except for one thing. I realized that I had completely changed what I believed the moment he pointed out the contradiction, and this shook me. My religious beliefs couldn't possibly be that plastic. This caused enough cognitive dissonance that I sat down some friday night after school and went into deep thought to iron out the problem.


    These parts are the reason why it is good to engage with believers while keeping empathy intact... even if on the spot they are likely to resist admitting the flaws in their tightly held beliefs, if the skeptic is able to really engage them, some religious believers will actually go on thinking about it, especially if instead of being overly combative, we appeal to their sense of reason and/or their conscience.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #7 - October 22, 2011, 07:29 AM

    Hi, and welcome!

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #8 - October 22, 2011, 08:29 AM

    Welcome  Smiley
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #9 - October 22, 2011, 08:41 AM


    Why'd it take me so long to find this place?





    Please, just listen. I know why you're here, almulhida. I know what you've been doing. I know why you hardly sleep, and why night after night you sit at your computer.

    You're looking for Ex muslims. I know, because I was once looking for the same thing. And when they found me, they told me I wasn't really looking for them, I was looking for an answer.

    It's the question that drives us, almulhida. It's the question that brought  you here. You know the question, just as I did...

    What is the Matrix?

    The answer is out there, almulhida. It's looking for you...and it will find you...if you want it to....

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #10 - October 22, 2011, 08:50 AM

    Hey, almulhida! Love your nick.

    Wow, you have such a beautifully mathematical mind! What is it that you are studying at university, if one may ask?

    Also, where in the Middle East are you from? (If you feel comfortable sharing that with us.)

    Anyway, here's your welcome idbuking Arab:

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #11 - October 22, 2011, 09:34 AM

    I've been an atheist for like 8 years now... you'd think I'd have found other ex-muslims on the internet before now.

    Anyway, hello. I'm an arab living in the US. I grew up in the middle east but then immigrated with the family when I was in middle school. I became an atheist when I was 17, and more or less tried to ignore religion and Islam, though these days I feel like I need to be as open about it as possible and to make atheistic noises to whoever will listen. Still haven't told my family but planning on it soon.

    well you can make as much as noise as you want with those who are younger than you almulhida but why trouble elder in the family with all this anti Islamic headache??  Anyways some times    I wonder whether we think a trick that allows one to be a Muslim and an atheist..  That would solve some problems with-in Islam.. As far as why you could not find sites like this one is concerned. There is a new policy  around Islamic intellectual circles  now a days.,  and that is

    Quote
    How Do We Deal With Anti-Islam Sites?

    People are emailing me websites that attack Islam. They say they are from the Jews and that we should send this out to everyone and tell them about it. But is this a good idea to send these sites to everyone? What about the non-Muslims? Should we tell them to be careful too? What should be done? Can we visit them at all? Should we warn others?

    As regards dealing with these hate sites against Islam and those like them:

    Best policy we have found in dealing with them?

        * Don't deal with them.
        * Do not go to them.
        * Do not mention them.
        * Do not argue with them.
        * .. and whatever you do - DO NOT FORWARD THEM TO OTHERS.

    Our experience with them on the internet for the last years has taught us they will not listen, they will lie and they will take people away from the true worship of Allah, even if it is only for a while with their nonsense.

    There is no need to deal with them. Allah will deal with them in due time. Please do not forward to anyone else and be sure to tell everyone else the same message, insha’Allah.

    10 years back when internet was in cradle, it was different. At that time Smart Muslim guys thought  internet is the best way to propagate Islam. But now a days they changed that opinion they think Personal contacts are far better way of making this world in to total Islamic Jannah instead of internet..

    and  welcome to CEMB..  so which Arab country are you originated from almulhida?? is this from you
     
    with best wishes
    yeezevee


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #12 - October 22, 2011, 12:04 PM

    10 years back when internet was in cradle, it was different. At that time Smart Muslim guys thought  internet is the best way to propagate Islam. But now a days they changed that opinion they think Personal contacts are far better way making this world in to total Jannah instead of internet..


    Funny the way things work. As the world becomes more interconnected, one can't deny how the personal contact method will simply not be able to compete with the internet... the governments in these Islamic countries know this which is one of the reasons why they censor so much of it.

    Welcome to the forums almulhida! Oh and for us non-Arabic folk, what does your name mean?

    "Live a good life. If there are god(s) and they are just, you will be rewarded based on virtue. If they're unjust, then you shouldn't want to worship them. If there are no gods, you will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of others."

    -Re-interpretation of Marcus Aurelius
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #13 - October 22, 2011, 01:02 PM


    Wow, you have such a beautifully mathematical mind! What is it that you are studying at university, if one may ask?



    I'm not in university, though I have tentative plans to go and study either math or geology.

    Quote
    Welcome to the forums almulhida! Oh and for us non-Arabic folk, what does your name mean?


    The atheist... a great deal of originality went into thinking up that name.


    and  welcome to CEMB..  so which Arab country are you originated from almulhida?? is this from you


    Um, well I lived in Saudi Arabia for a bit of my childhood before the family moved to Egypt, where we lived for a bit before moving again to the US. I don't really feel like I'm "from" anywhere really.

    And yeah, that's my blog. I don't know what to write for it, lol.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #14 - October 22, 2011, 02:08 PM

    ..............
    Um, well I lived in Saudi Arabia for a bit of my childhood before the family moved to Egypt, where we lived for a bit before moving again to the US. I don't really feel like I'm "from" anywhere really.

    And yeah, that's my blog. I don't know what to write for it, lol.

    ah ha ..  So., almulhida you moved from the white horse countries to wild horse country..., Now tell me  how many times did you visit the Sand land?? lo..

      no noo.,  that is a good blog very neatly written  now you can add this to your blog posts.. may be translate it..
    Quote


    [طباعة] [ اكتب رأيك] [اخبر صديقك] [أرسل ملاحظاتك]
    استمع المحققون في هيئة الرقابة والتحقيق في المدينة المنورة أمس إلى أقوال معنفة الهيئة ضمن قضية طرفها أفراد من هيئة الأمر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر في المدينةالمنورة.
    يشار إلى أن شكوى المعنفة تضمنت اتهامها لستة من أعضاء هيئة الأمر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر في المدينة المنورة بتعنيفها وخالها بدعوى اشتباه لم تثبت صحته، الأمر الذي جعلهم يحاولون استرضاءها بكيسين من النعناع ومبلغ 500 ريال حتى لا تصعد شكواها ضدهم.
    وأوضحت المعنفة م. ن، أنها أوضحت للمحققين بما حدث بالتفصيل، مضيفة أنها فندت رواية مصدر الهيئة الذي ادعى أنها قبلت الهدية وتم إسكانها في الفندق، عطفا منهم لأنها لا تملك المال الكافي.
    يذكر أن «عكاظ» سبق أن نشرت خلال الأيام الماضية قصة معنفة المدينة المنورة، التي اهتم بقضيتها صاحب السمو الملكي الأمير عبدالعزيز بن ماجد بن عبدالعزيز أمير منطقة المدينة المنورة وأصدر تعليماته في حينه بالتحقيق في ملابسات الواقعة.  


    and that is from this link

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #15 - October 22, 2011, 02:11 PM

    hello there welcome to our humble abode  Smiley
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #16 - October 22, 2011, 02:11 PM

    Funny the way things work. As the world becomes more interconnected, one can't deny how the personal contact method will simply not be able to compete with the internet... ......

     Cheesy   well,   stagnated minds take time to learn  agentwar.,  It seems wherever you go you start war with words..lol..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #17 - October 22, 2011, 02:21 PM

    A warm welcome.. heres a dancing welcome jinn for ya!

    ghost

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #18 - October 22, 2011, 03:06 PM

    Hello and welcome! Have a parrot  parrot

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #19 - October 22, 2011, 03:07 PM

    Cheesy   well,   stagnated minds take time to learn  agentwar.,  It seems wherever you go you start war with words..lol..


    lol I should've rephrased my message a little better. Typing messages on these tablets is a hardship in itself, once you write something out, the last thing you wanna do is proofread it. I wasn't aware that you were an undercover grammar Nazi. Tongue

    "Live a good life. If there are god(s) and they are just, you will be rewarded based on virtue. If they're unjust, then you shouldn't want to worship them. If there are no gods, you will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of others."

    -Re-interpretation of Marcus Aurelius
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #20 - October 22, 2011, 03:51 PM

    Anyway, at some point I learned of the concept of internal consistency, and figured that's a good thing to have too. You know how your brain is when you're young, it's like a concept sponge. You learn a new concept and you start applying it everywhere indiscriminately. It's like giving a four year old power tools; they go straight for the walls. I figured my beliefs about God had to be internally consistent (there was no reason to think of it as internal consistency rather than just simple logical consistency, but 16 years old...) and this turned out to be a powerful rationalization tool. Everytime I had a religious belief challenged, I would simply change it, and in ironing out the contradictions I thought I was moving closer to the truth about God.

    ...Why?
    I'm just asking because my theological beliefs are all over the place; in my opinion it's more fun that way 'cause you never know, God might not exist today but She might tomorrow or yesterday or next week or in an hour's time, at least in my head. But I'm weird and irrational. (Or, in other words, intellectually inferior. Tongue)

    Anyway. Hey there, have a slightly blasphemous piggy: piggy
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #21 - October 22, 2011, 06:55 PM

    I've been an atheist for like 8 years now... you'd think I'd have found other ex-muslims on the internet before now.

    Anyway, hello. I'm an arab living in the US. I grew up in the middle east but then immigrated with the family when I was in middle school. I became an atheist when I was 17, and more or less tried to ignore religion and Islam, though these days I feel like I need to be as open about it as possible and to make atheistic noises to whoever will listen. Still haven't told my family but planning on it soon.


    Welcome.

    If more people knew this forum exists we would have a flood of ex-Muslims joining us. There are many more out there and many more who just need to know they are not alone. But slowly slowly we are growing and more and more know about us.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #22 - October 22, 2011, 07:02 PM

    As long as people like yourself contribute here they will come slowly....


    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #23 - October 22, 2011, 07:03 PM

    As long as people like yourself contribute here they will come slowly....




    You're a sweetie Gladfly.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #24 - October 22, 2011, 07:10 PM

    Having compassion for those that dont share your world view is not a easy thing...

    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #25 - October 22, 2011, 07:11 PM

    But slowly slowly we are growing and more and more know about us.

    One of my first posts on here was to say that you (CEMB ex-Muslims) were at the vanguard of a very important movement.

    What with your determined modesty, I was gently pooh-poohed.

    But I was right.


    And that doesn't happen often.

  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #26 - October 22, 2011, 08:10 PM



    And that doesn't happen often.




    And that's modest too!  Afro



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #27 - October 22, 2011, 08:12 PM

    False modesty.
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #28 - October 24, 2011, 02:25 PM

    Welcome Smiley parrot

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Why'd it take me so long to find this place
     Reply #29 - October 24, 2011, 10:00 PM

    Welcome to the forum, almulhida.  far away hug

    Love the username. Afro

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
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