Hello, all sentient beings!

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- YellowSky
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Hello, all sentient beings!
OP - October 10, 2011, 07:32 PM

I have been yearning to write to this forum for months concerning Islam, although I myself have never said the Shahada and my family is in the same position.

Buddhism has helped me to find understanding of the world in a way that Christianity, my former faith, was unable to. Unfortunately, my study of Islam, which grew out of the evils of Christianity, has convinced me that Islam, when applied as it often is, is as evil as Christianity and perhaps more dangerous.

As a Buddhist, I have become very depressed concerning the apparent growth of Islam in recent decades, remembering from my voluminous studies of history the hideous genocides and deBuddhification campaigns carried out against Buddhists in Afghanistan (from where we derive some of the oldest Buddhist manuscripts in the world), Sindh (which sent Buddhist missionaries as far as Yemen in the 6th century), Northern India (it took a week to burn all of the Buddhist texts at Nalanda alone ), Bangladesh (the earliest Bangladeshi literature is Buddhist, apparently), Indonesia , and Central Asia .

Reading about this and other behaviour in Islam’s past and present, I have become troubled by fundamentalism in Islam and most interpretations of the Qur’an. I do not hate Muslims; many whom I work with are Muslims, and one is the very definition of a liberal Muslim, but I pity the fact that they have been brought up to believe Islam to be true, and I am afraid of the doctrine that they follow. If they were exposed to the laws of Islam as explained by the major tafsirs, I am sure that they would abandon it easily. I hold the same attitude toward Christians.
I therefore come to this site to ask some questions:

Is Islam losing many adherents?

Do you believe, in common with Ali Sina, that Islam is on the wane/will soon wane?

Are most Muslims unaware of the bloody aspects of their own religion and unwilling to carry out such orders?

What is your opinion of Ali Sina and Faithfreedom?

How many people here would be interested in learning about Buddhism?

Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #1 - October 10, 2011, 07:45 PM

Hello YellowSky.

Quote
What is your opinion of Ali Sina and Faithfreedom?

Oh boy.

Quote
How many people here would be interested in learning about Buddhism?

I'm sure lots of people here are interested in Buddhism, because they are an informed and curious bunch here, generally speaking - but prosletysers for faiths tend to go against the grain - despite this being a place for those who question and leave Islam, its no orchard of lost souls offering rich pickings for missionaries here - just a heads up

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #2 - October 10, 2011, 07:53 PM

Regarding Buddhism, there's one other member here that I know of, Prince Spinoza, who's very interested in it. I've read a bit about Buddhism as well, and I find it interesting. There are attitudes I disagree with, though.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #3 - October 10, 2011, 07:54 PM

Welcome, Yellow sky.

Do you believe handicapped people are handicapped because they were bad in a previous life?
- YellowSky
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #4 - October 10, 2011, 08:31 PM

Hassan, the plight of the handicapped is not abstract to me.

I am confined to a wheel-chair and have been from birth, I am nearly deaf and have been from birth, I am visually impaired and have been from birth, I can barely write and have been from gaining literacy. Naturally I believe that this was due to misdeeds in a past life, but I try to move on and accumulate merit. At least I do not need to believe that some allegedly merciful god made me this way. No god regulates karma, but we create our own. If I had been whole and had injured my brain through foolishness,I would be as I am now. But I was bad in a past life and am as I am now. This doesnot mean that we shouldnot help the less fortunate; in doing so we mitigate their bad karma and accumulate merit for ourselves.

All who want to learn about Buddhism in depth should go to Access to Insight (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/).

What is the opinion about Ali Sina?

Any Answers to my questions about Islam?

Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #5 - October 10, 2011, 09:03 PM

welcome YellowSky..

Quote
Naturally I believe that this was due to misdeeds in a past life

see... that right there... leave off the "in a past life" and one has delved right
back into the same loophole one left behind both in xianity and islam.

You still have to contend with guilt, fear, apprehension and the big wish
of next time will be better, whether its another life, jannah, or heaven.

The thing is, dear YellowSky, many of us NO LONGER believe in this nonsense
any longer.

I come from a strong pentacostal background, as well as Islam (basically, jumped
out of the frying pan, into the fire).

I also was born and raised in the far east, where buddism was prevelant. There are
a few tidbits of buddhism that I agree with, and admire, but Im not diving head first
into any religion at this point. There are some "philosophies" in religion that are good
to follow, like helping the orphans and widows, helping those less fortunate, patience,
etc. but that is as far as I will take it. Just some good guidelines to live by and I toss
the rest in the bin.

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
- TheRationalizer
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #6 - October 11, 2011, 03:50 AM

Buddhism: Take the bits you like, but dismiss the unfounded claims of reincarnation etc. If you are willing to believe one fantastic claim without evidence where do you stop?

Islam: I think a lot of Muslims in the west are either reshaping it to what they want it to be (more western) or outright apostatising. Many in Africa are becoming Christians.

Ali Sina: I get the impression that he thinks he is right no matter what, and it is just a matter if time before Muslims realise it and become monsters.

Welcome!

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #7 - October 11, 2011, 03:53 AM

PS: As for your disabilities, the real explanation is far more amazing. We are all mutants to varying degrees, without these uncontrolled random mutations none of us would exist!

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- three44
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #8 - October 11, 2011, 04:06 AM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 11, 2011, 03:50 AM
Buddhism: Take the bits you like, but dismiss the unfounded claims of reincarnation etc. If you are willing to believe one fantastic claim without evidence where do you stop?

Islam: I think a lot of Muslims in the west are either reshaping it to what they want it to be (more western) or outright apostatising. Many in Africa are becoming Christians.

Ali Sina: I get the impression that he thinks he is right no matter what, and it is just a matter if time before Muslims realise it and become monsters.

Welcome!

What scale of conversions are we talking here? Any sources?

<dust>: i love tea!!!
<dust>: milky tea
<three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
<dust>: mm
<three>: it's definitely not called neck
<dust>: lol
<three>: what's the word i'm looking for
<dust>: throat
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #9 - October 11, 2011, 06:19 AM

Quote from: YellowSky on October 10, 2011, 08:31 PM
I am confined to a wheel-chair and have been from birth, I am nearly deaf and have been from birth, I am visually impaired and have been from birth, I can barely write and have been from gaining literacy. Naturally I believe that this was due to misdeeds in a past life

I like many things about Buddhism - but I find this belief quite obscene.

I will leave others to respond to your other questions.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #10 - October 11, 2011, 11:58 AM

We better nip this in the bud: People here aren't interested in converting to any religion/philosophy/lifestyle etc.

I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #11 - October 11, 2011, 12:20 PM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 11, 2011, 03:53 AM
PS: As for your disabilities, the real explanation is far more amazing. We are all mutants to varying degrees, without these uncontrolled random mutations none of us would exist!

+1!
Note that the first chicken came out of an egg, laid by a bird that we just not would call a chicken...

Religion is organized superstition
- YellowSky
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #12 - October 11, 2011, 12:51 PM

Well, you make me think. But I was damaged in the brain as I left the womb.

I may believe in rebirth and karma, but I do not use this to justify abusing sufferers. I scorn gods (if they exist they will die and go to hells, since they are not epitomes of good conduct), and my beliefs in rebirth/different realms does not affect my conduct. I could be wrong about the mystical elements of Buddhism, but I still benefit from Buddhist phenomonology and ethics.

Truly, I did not come here to convert (although that would be good), but to gain some solace for my depression, which I treat with Buddhism and medication. Unfortunately, reading about Islam makes me extremely depressed, so I was wondering whether the propaganda about the tremendous growth of Islam is true.

Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
- Hallakuf
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #13 - October 11, 2011, 01:11 PM

Quote
..........I did not come here to convert (although that would be good), but to gain some solace for my depression, which I treat with Buddhism and medication..........

I hope this forum can be of any use to you

Religion is organized superstition
- allat
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #14 - October 11, 2011, 01:30 PM

Quote from: YellowSky on October 11, 2011, 12:51 PM
Well, you make me think. But I was damaged in the brain as I left the womb.

I may believe in rebirth and karma, but I do not use this to justify abusing sufferers. I scorn gods (if they exist they will die and go to hells, since they are not epitomes of good conduct), and my beliefs in rebirth/different realms does not affect my conduct. I could be wrong about the mystical elements of Buddhism, but I still benefit from Buddhist phenomonology and ethics.

Welcome YellowSky

Don't worry, as long as you keep your beliefs to yourself, and don't impose them on anyone, unless communicating them when someone asks about them specifically, you shouldn't have a problem.

Like many others here, I have a lot of respect for some parts of Buddhist philosophy, but as a religion, I do not subscribe to it. I find it less distasteful than the Abrahamic religions, but only because it is not as hegemonic in the countries I have lived in. In places like Thailand, etc., I have heard of some pretty obscene, exploitative practices being justified by Buddhism, and it makes me wary.

At the very least, it's a shame that so many religious Buddhists do things that are similar to Abrahamics i.e. worshipping someone who did not want to be worshipped (explicitly, in Buddha's case), letting clergy get away with all sorts of things, using religion as an excuse, channeling money and time into religious practice/prayer/institutions that could be better used actually doing something to alleviate social ills.

Quote from: YellowSky on October 11, 2011, 12:51 PM
Truly, I did not come here to convert (although that would be good), but to gain some solace for my depression, which I treat with Buddhism and medication. Unfortunately, reading about Islam makes me extremely depressed, so I was wondering whether the propaganda about the tremendous growth of Islam is true.

Sorry to hear about your depression. As for Islam, true it is a dogma, like Christianity and many others, but you don't have to worry. The likelihood of Islam "taking over" is mostly in the imagination of scared, right-wing, dogmatic (supremacist) Muslims and scared, right-wing, dogmatic (supremacist) non-Muslims. Different regions of the world are different, in some places Islamic dogma is the big problem, in other places it is the dogma of Christianity, Nationalism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism etc. Islam is one of the big monsters of our times, but it is not the only one. The tricky part is to not let any one monster blind you to the others.

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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #15 - October 11, 2011, 03:46 PM

Quote from: YellowSky on October 10, 2011, 07:32 PM
I have been yearning to write to this forum for months concerning Islam, although I myself have never said the Shahada and my family is in the same position.

Buddhism has helped me to find understanding of the world in a way that Christianity, my former faith, was unable to. Unfortunately, my study of Islam, which grew out of the evils of Christianity, has convinced me that Islam, when applied as it often is, is as evil as Christianity and perhaps more dangerous.

As a Buddhist, I have become very depressed concerning the apparent growth of Islam in recent decades, remembering from my voluminous studies of history the hideous genocides and deBuddhification campaigns carried out against Buddhists in Afghanistan (from where we derive some of the oldest Buddhist manuscripts in the world), Sindh (which sent Buddhist missionaries as far as Yemen in the 6th century), Northern India (it took a week to burn all of the Buddhist texts at Nalanda alone ), Bangladesh (the earliest Bangladeshi literature is Buddhist, apparently), Indonesia , and Central Asia .

Reading about this and other behaviour in Islam’s past and present, I have become troubled by fundamentalism in Islam and most interpretations of the Qur’an. I do not hate Muslims; many whom I work with are Muslims, and one is the very definition of a liberal Muslim, but I pity the fact that they have been brought up to believe Islam to be true, and I am afraid of the doctrine that they follow. If they were exposed to the laws of Islam as explained by the major tafsirs, I am sure that they would abandon it easily. I hold the same attitude toward Christians.
I therefore come to this site to ask some questions:

Is Islam losing many adherents?

Do you believe, in common with Ali Sina, that Islam is on the wane/will soon wane?

Are most Muslims unaware of the bloody aspects of their own religion and unwilling to carry out such orders?

What is your opinion of Ali Sina and Faithfreedom?

How many people here would be interested in learning about Buddhism?

Yes. I have studied Buddhism.

Taken up a type of mindful meditation.

And im a regular meditator (there is no relgious baggage attached to this medtation).

And i would recommend meditation to everyone.

I also think Siddhahartha was unique amongst all the sages of the past.

Others have said believe in me and be saved.

Buddha only said put my program into action and see if it works.

There is a lot of merit to buddhism even for our secular age.

But im not a buddhist

Little Fly, Thy summer's play
My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

I too dance and drink, and sing,
Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

Therefore I am a happy fly,
If I live or if I die.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #16 - October 12, 2011, 09:07 PM

By my definition thou art a Buddhist, glad fly.

Indeed, more Buddhist than I am.

I cannot meditate well, and my mantras are Greek poetry (Hesiod & Archilochus).

The Buddha is truly world-honoured.

Many thanks, allat.

Thy words I try to remind myself of all the time.

May I mention Buddhism on the religion forum?

Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #17 - October 13, 2011, 06:42 PM

Buddhist?

Been called a

Christian
Sikh
Sufi
A Tory
Communist
The Smut King
And do I dare say Philosopher?

Little Fly, Thy summer's play
My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

I too dance and drink, and sing,
Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

Therefore I am a happy fly,
If I live or if I die.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #18 - October 14, 2011, 05:52 AM

Just returning a welcome favour! Glad to see you found something that fulfills you.

I'm sure most muslims are somewhat aware of the bloody aspects of their own religion, but see it as a necessary part of a heroic struggle of good vs bad (when I was young it was explained to me in relation to the Muslim conquests, so that's how I felt). The holy books were all written in feudal times, when bloodshed, slavery, torture etc were all everyday occurrences (I realize these still occur today, but we can agree nowhere near as common as then). People today, especially in developed nations, seem to take this fact for granted. Of course as a result of this, most muslims I see today are moderate and I find that they tend to pick and choose what they feel fits with their personal views on Islam. They then live by those ideals, often ignoring the big picture.

It is known (haha sound like a Dothraki) that atheism and agnosticism is on the rise, but I still see the major Abrahamic religions staying for a long time to come by right of birth. Funny thing mentioned by one of my uncles (who considers himself Muslim, but questions nearly every aspect of it), is that the true Muslims, Christians and Jews are not the ones born into said religions, but are the ones who converted into them. I'm sure most people here will agree and know the reasons why.

"Live a good life. If there are god(s) and they are just, you will be rewarded based on virtue. If they're unjust, then you shouldn't want to worship them. If there are no gods, you will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of others."

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- sojournerlumus
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #19 - October 14, 2011, 07:00 AM

I can see where you're coming from, Yellowsky. I think if I'd been born with your disabilities I might want to believe in a better personal life to come. But, as with J & T, I too have to say 'Stop right there' - at the 'Belief' word. All myths about past lives, lives to come, deities and other so called 'supernatural' phenomena are just that, myths, invented by people who did not have Science or any other evidence based knowledge system. So they had to make the best fist of it they could and religion & belief is the best they could come up with at the time.
Of course the whole thing was hi-jacked by the Anthropoid Alpha male system that pervades the doings of our species.
So, unless you and I are cremated, then we're bound to be reincarnated as billions of bacteria, moulds and Fungi first of all and enter a food chain that does not take sentience into account.
No amount of wishful thinking (belief) will change any of that. Our atoms will be scattered to the four winds, the oceans and subduction zones of the Earth's crust. There is a probability that some of our atoms will recycle together into the same organism - I'm no mathematician but I'm sure some enterprising spark could easily work out the probability. Just think, any one of us is possibly carrying about some of the very atoms that Leonardo Da Vinci contained at some stage in his life.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Hello, all sentient beings!
Reply #20 - October 14, 2011, 07:03 AM

I can see where you're coming from, Yellowsky. I think if I'd been born with your disabilities I might want to believe in a better personal life to come. But, as with J & T, I too have to say 'Stop right there' - at the 'Belief' word. All myths about past lives, lives to come, deities and other so called 'supernatural' phenomena are just that, myths, invented by people who did not have Science or any other evidence based knowledge system. So they had to make the best fist of it they could and religion & belief is the best they could come up with at the time.
Of course the whole thing was hi-jacked by the Anthropoid Alpha male system that pervades the doings of our species.
So, unless you and I are cremated, then we're bound to be reincarnated as billions of bacteria, moulds and Fungi first of all and enter a food chain that does not take sentience into account.
No amount of wishful thinking (belief) will change any of that. Our atoms will be scattered to the four winds, the oceans and subduction zones of the Earth's crust. There is a probability that some of our atoms will recycle together into the same organism - I'm no mathematician but I'm sure some enterprising spark could easily work out the probability. Just think, any one of us is possibly carrying about some of the very atoms that Leonardo Da Vinci contained at some stage in his life.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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